raptop changed the topic of #principia to: READ THE FAQ: http://goo.gl/gMZF9H; The current version is Galileo. We currently target 1.5.1, 1.6.1, 1.7.x, 1.8.1, and 1.9.1. <scott_manley> anyone that doubts the wisdom of retrograde bop needs to get the hell out | https://xkcd.com/323/ | <egg> calculating the influence of lamont on Pluto is a bit silly… | <egg> also 4e16 m * 2^-52 is uncomfortably large
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lpg. — only "very nice"
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lamont. — in principia the earth is still a sphere right it just has oblong gravity?
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Farrier. — Maybe a stupid question, but why is it useful to have different frame selections in main window and maneuver planner?
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lpg. — so you can plot your maneuver in terms of where you are, but see the trajectory in terms of where you're going
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Farrier. — Still don't get it. Maybe It'll come to me later with experience.
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egg. — @lamont yeah, we don’t touch the terrain.
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egg. — @lamont yeah, we don’t touch the terrain (we do have more than just oblateness though, our geopotential goes to degree and order 10). (edited)
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egg. — @Farrier as lpg says, the plotting frame is a purely visual thing, it affects how you look at things; the manœuvre frame on the other hand is part of the definition of the manœuvre; it tells you « what forward means »
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egg. — @Farrier consider a flight plan which starts in low earth orbit and ends in low lunar orbit. Your translunar injection burn should be forward *along the geocentric trajectory*
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egg. — but you will also want to look at the selenocentric bit at the end eventually
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egg. — so the TLI burn is defined with respect to the geocentric trajectory, and you look at the trajectory in various frames depending on what you want to see about it
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Farrier. — I usually execute burn looking at the destination, like moon-centric. Maneuver spot on SAS doesn't change depending on the frame, does it?
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egg. — this is not about executing a single burn
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Farrier. — I usually execute burn looking at the destination, like moon-centric. Maneuver spot (or how do you call it) on SAS doesn't change depending on the frame, does it? (edited)
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egg. — > Maneuver spot (or how do you call it) on SAS doesn't change depending on the frame
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egg. — It depends no the manœuvre frame, as I just told you
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egg. — > Maneuver spot (or how do you call it) on SAS doesn't change depending on the frame
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egg. — It depends on the manœuvre frame, as I just told you (edited)
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Farrier. — I know that, but when you select 'show on the navball'
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egg. — then that shows you the direction in which you should burn
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egg. — which is a property of the manoeuvre
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egg. — and thus depends on the manoeuvre frame, and on the Δv components of the manoeuvre in the frenet frame of the trajectory in the manoeuvre frame
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egg. — (but not on the plotting frame! the plotting frame is purely a visual setting)
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scimas. — Place a ship in higher-than-GEO... orbit egg described, be in the ECI plotting frame, plan a manoeuvre in the ECI frame, look and remember where the "show on navball" points to. Now simply flip the manoeuvre frame from ECI to ECEF and see what happens to the "show on navball" marker.
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egg. — if you have 100 m/s tangent on a manoeuvre, that means « 100 m/s forward along the trajectory in the manoeuvre frame ». Change the manoeuvre frame, and thus the definition of forward, and you change the direction of those 100 m/s
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egg. — the plotting frame chooses which frame the trajectory is drawn in, so those 100 m/s will be forward along-the-trajectory-as-currently-drawn when plotting frame = manoeuvre frame
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egg. — but since it is normal to constantly switch between plotting frames to look at various aspects of the trajectory, you wouldn’t want that to garble your flight plan ; thus the manoeuvre frames, which define the manoeuvres (and thus cannot be changed without changing the flight plan, typically absurdly) are independent
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Zeusbeer. — Is it possible to remove a little bit of the space underneath the rebase button? It really makes the window a lot taller
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egg. — put it in 2400 so we don’t have to dig through ancient discord logs when we actually get to trying the new methods on player trajectories
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egg. — (right now we are still building up the libraries underlying those new methods so we can check that they actually work)
<_whitenotifier-9244>
[Principia] RCrockford commented on issue #2400: History persistence lets .sfs files get very large - https://git.io/JJ6sc
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Butcher. — Done.
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Butcher. — There's also a lunar orbiter that's been around for 500 days in that save.
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Butcher. — My GEO sat seems to have drifted to the stable point.
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egg. — I guess file a bug, but we probably won’t find anything without a journal
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Butcher. — Yeah I dont know if I can repro it.
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egg. — this sounds like the usual « some assumption we make about the nonexistent invariants of KSP is wrong in weird cases possibly due to other mods »
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Butcher. — I had just staged off some parts of the ship.
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egg. — but your strut cube would vanish!
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egg. — whatever that may mean
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n9gaming. — I very much dislike that these bugs are simply forever present in 1.7.3 now because they've stopped updating Principia for that version :/
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n9gaming. — There is a workaround for anyone who would need it, enable "Hack Gravity" on the craft while timewarping, or at least coming in and out of time warp
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n9gaming. — *but I'm pretty sure that has the unwanted effect of the mod no longer computing the active vessel*
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egg. — Indeed, when gravity is hacked, we ignore any loaded vessel
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n9gaming. — *1.8.1 is calling me, but I don't want to update again haha*
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Butcher. — > but your strut cube would vanish!
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Butcher. — @egg 🤷♂️ that was a part of the staged away debris...
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Butcher. — 1.8.1 is what all the cool kids are running.
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Stonesmile. — @n9gaming If the first of the issues you posted pics of are affecting you, you can get around this by setting another part as root and then in flight click control from here on the capsule
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n9gaming. — I'll give that a shot tomorrow, the vessel is a spaceplane - when unpacking from time warp, parts such as wing segments and the cockpit are thrown askew. But the vessel realigns itself when packed in timewarp again
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n9gaming. — The *slowest* workaround is simply to use physical timewarp and go afk for hours until needed haha
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Ringo. — Is this obligatory to have the Mission Control at level 2 to select a target?
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lamont. — nothing that touches KSP's maneuver node system will work
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lamont. — (corollary is that stuff that doesn't touch the maneuver node system probably works)
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egg. — well, it might, or it might not, there are other ways to break (changing orbits for instance). A corollary that is true is the contrapositive: If it works, if does not touch the KSP manœuvre system :-p