raptop changed the topic of #principia to: READ THE FAQ: http://goo.gl/gMZF9H; The current version is Galileo. We currently target 1.5.1, 1.6.1, 1.7.x, 1.8.1, and 1.9.1. <scott_manley> anyone that doubts the wisdom of retrograde bop needs to get the hell out | https://xkcd.com/323/ | <egg> calculating the influence of lamont on Pluto is a bit silly… | <egg> also 4e16 m * 2^-52 is uncomfortably large
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<discord-> R​urouniDonut. — I heard KSPTOT is somewhat decent with Principia
<discord-> l​pg. — uhm.
<discord-> K​irk. — That is quite fast
<discord-> l​pg. — apparently the velocity of a vessel in Earth Orbit, from the point of view of Ceres' surface, is 0.3c
<discord-> K​irk. — Did you encounter some unusally angry whales?
<discord-> K​irk. — Did you encounter some unusually angry whales? (edited)
<discord-> l​pg. — nope. game functionning entirely normally, except for that particular value in that particular frame of reference
<discord-> K​irk. — I'm pretty sure Ceres' is not moving at a significant fraction of C relative to earth
<discord-> K​irk. — Maybe the angry whales got Ceres' or something
<discord-> l​pg. — all the xCxF frames seem to be getting similarly insane values
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<discord-> B​utcher. — Even stuff like MCEF?
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<discord-> l​pg. — didn't check xCyF
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<discord-> B​utcher. — Oh, I misread.
<discord-> B​utcher. — I'm seeing similar, magntiude of velocity seems to increase with distance of body.
<discord-> B​utcher. — Pretty sure my lunar rover is not moving at more than speed of light relative to neptune's surface.
<discord-> B​utcher. — 😁
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<discord-> S​tonesmile. — Pretty sure this is just due to rotation of the focus body
<discord-> B​utcher. — How fast is Neptune rotating?
<discord-> S​tonesmile. — ~16h
<discord-> B​utcher. — It's telling me I'm moving at *1.7c* relative to the surface.
<discord-> S​tonesmile. — ~16h/rotation (edited)
<discord-> S​tandecco. — that's _definitely_ not the case
<discord-> B​utcher. — The ECEF one is because that's not Earth, it's one of the Moon's with an E as the first letter. 😉
<discord-> B​utcher. — The ECEF one is because that's not Earth, it's one of the Moons with an E as the first letter. 😉 (edited)
<discord-> S​tandecco. — the only thing that could come close to these relative speeds would be 2 points on the surface of 2 neutron stars rotating in opposite direction
<discord-> S​tandecco. — that would ignore relativity, of course, but the point is that there's no way that this is not a bug
<discord-> B​utcher. — Maximum speeds in the solar system should be under 100 km/s even relative to the surface of other bodies.
<discord-> S​tonesmile. — Would it be fair to assume that your vessel is not moving relative to the sun from neptunes view?
<discord-> S​tandecco. — your velocity relative to the sun should be the same in any inertial frame of reference
<discord-> S​tandecco. — the surface of a rotating body isn't an inertial frame of reference, but the error probably won't be that large
<discord-> B​utcher. — That's my speed relative to Neptune.
<discord-> B​utcher. — Which is about what I'd expect.
<discord-> S​tonesmile. — You 'orbit' neptune once every 16h, at the height of about 29 to 31 AU, that gives those numbers
<discord-> B​utcher. — Hmm, I suppose if you treat it as orbital velocity at that height you'd get something like that.
<discord-> S​tandecco. — orbital velocity at that height would be 0, not c
<discord-> B​utcher. — With a 16h period it would be very large.
<discord-> B​utcher. — A 30 AU radius gives a circumference close to 100 AU which is traversed in 16 hours.
<discord-> S​tandecco. — and it's still not correct; you'd see those kinds of speeds only if he were stationary in regards to the surface of neptune at 30 AU (so a velocity of 2π30AU/16h), but that'd be relative to the sun
<discord-> S​tonesmile. — If you flip it around, it would mean neptune would have a year of 16h at the same distance - that would be fast
<discord-> S​tonesmile. — If someone has a GEO sat, that would probably show close to 0 in ECEF
<discord-> B​utcher. — It does, yes.
<discord-> S​tandecco. — if you were to take the velocity relative to a point that is 30 AU from the surface of neptune and stationary in regards to it, then you'd see those numbers
<discord-> S​tonesmile. — SO the math holds, it's just the usage of 'wrong' refrence frame that shows those numbers
<discord-> S​tonesmile. — So the math holds, it's just the usage of 'wrong' refrence frame that shows those numbers (edited)
<discord-> S​tandecco. — it's not considering you orbiting around neptune at 30 AU, that would give very low numbers + the angular speed * surface radius
<discord-> S​tandecco. — rather, it's somehow extending neptune's surface, or something similar
<discord-> B​utcher. — Using the fixed frames when you're not in orbit of that body is pretty dubious true.
<discord-> B​utcher. — GEO sat:
<discord-> S​tandecco. — I'd assume that's the vertical motion induced by the moon
<discord-> B​utcher. — Yes, it also has a bit of longitude drift from when I last corrected its inclination.
<discord-> S​tandecco. — how far is your rover from neptune, exactly?
<discord-> S​tandecco. — alright, assuming 30 AU, the numbers more or less match
<discord-> S​tandecco. — that is your velocity relative to the surface of neptune, _if neptune had a 30 AU radius_
<discord-> S​tandecco. — but still a 16h period
<discord-> S​tonesmile. — So you think the math for xCxF should be changed?
<discord-> S​tandecco. — possibly; if I could make any sense out of principia's code, I could check how it's calculated
<discord-> S​tonesmile. — The easy way would be to ask 🥚
<discord-> S​tandecco. — well if the error really is there, he'll know how to fix it for sure
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<discord-> e​gg. — Not sure why you think there is something wrong with those numbers
<discord-> e​gg. — @Standecco there is no error
<discord-> S​tandecco. — speed relative to the surface of neptune is supposed to be 1.7 c ?
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<discord-> S​tandecco. — if so, I definitely misunderstood what surface fixed frames are
<discord-> B​utcher. — It's speed in a frame of reference that holds neptune's surface stationary.
<discord-> e​gg. — the reference frames are rigid
<discord-> B​utcher. — As such you're effectively doing whatever Neptune's angular velocity is at whatever distance you're at, which gives some fairly huge numbers.
<discord-> e​gg. — indeed
<discord-> B​utcher. — So it's as though you're doing a 30AU revolution every 16 hours, hence 1.7c (since that's how fast you would need to be travelling to do that).
<discord-> S​tandecco. — so if you had that speed, the surface fixed reading would show 0?
<discord-> B​utcher. — Yes.
<discord-> S​tandecco. — and indeed, math works out right, as always
<discord-> S​tandecco. — v_surface = v_IFR - V_neptune - []
<discord-> S​tandecco. — v_surface = v_IFR - V_neptune - ω x r
<discord-> S​tandecco. — where r is the distance from the center of neptune
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<discord-> F​alcon. — why is part of the orbit lines fine and the rest are blurry?
<discord-> S​tonesmile. — Pretty sure this is a TUfX issue, I have noticed the lines get more vibrant with TUfX, so with a certain config it could break
<discord-> S​tandecco. — DoF?
<discord-> E​picGunMachine. — @Falcon hit the default one then go back to your one
<discord-> E​picGunMachine. — it should fix it
<discord-> F​alcon. — yeah i used zorgs configs and it fixed it
<discord-> E​picGunMachine. — :)
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