raptop changed the topic of #principia to: READ THE FAQ: http://goo.gl/gMZF9H; The current version is Galileo. We currently target 1.5.1, 1.6.1, 1.7.x, 1.8.1, and 1.9.1. <scott_manley> anyone that doubts the wisdom of retrograde bop needs to get the hell out | https://xkcd.com/323/ | <egg> calculating the influence of lamont on Pluto is a bit silly… | <egg> also 4e16 m * 2^-52 is uncomfortably large
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<Starseeker> Hey, so, question: what're the expected system specs to be able to run Principia?
<discord-> A​nomaly. — If you're fine with deleting old vessels, 4 cores.
<discord-> A​nomaly. — 6 recommended obv
<Starseeker> alrighty
<Starseeker> and RAM?
<Starseeker> like, recommended RAM amount
<_whitenotifier-9244> [Principia] pleroy synchronize pull request #2680: Fix problems found with Clang - https://git.io/JJNzw
<_whitenotifier-9244> [Principia] Pending. Build queued… - 
<_whitenotifier-9244> [Principia] Pending. Building… - http://casanova.westeurope.cloudapp.azure.com:8080/job/Principia/4462/
<Starseeker> hello?
<_whitenotifier-9244> [Principia] Success. Build finished. - http://casanova.westeurope.cloudapp.azure.com:8080/job/Principia/4462/
<_whitenotifier-9244> [Principia] pleroy closed pull request #2680: Fix problems found with Clang - https://git.io/JJNzw
<_whitenotifier-9244> [Principia] pleroy pushed 3 commits to master [+0/-0/±7] https://git.io/JJNdP
<_whitenotifier-9244> [Principia] pleroy 13afac9 - Fix problems found with Clang.
<_whitenotifier-9244> [Principia] pleroy 73643ad - Lint.
<_whitenotifier-9244> [Principia] pleroy 0bcfe42 - Merge pull request #2680 from pleroy/Clang Fix problems found with Clang
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<discord-> A​nomaly. — Sorry had to go. 16GB is recommended for KSP RO anyway, and moreso for Principia but I get by on 8.
<Starseeker> Well, I'm not using RO, but JNSQ
<Starseeker> or at least planning to
<Starseeker> But good to hear, since I've only got 16 ^^;
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<discord-> B​utcher. — I do fine on 16.
<discord-> B​utcher. — Keep part mods and visual mods in check and you should be fine.
<_whitenotifier-9244> [Principia] pleroy opened pull request #2681: Turns out we need the mathematica library - https://git.io/JJNje
<_whitenotifier-9244> [Principia] pleroy closed pull request #2681: Turns out we need the mathematica library - https://git.io/JJNje
<_whitenotifier-9244> [Principia] pleroy pushed 2 commits to master [+0/-0/±2] https://git.io/JJNjf
<_whitenotifier-9244> [Principia] pleroy c693fdf - Turns out we need the mathematica library.
<_whitenotifier-9244> [Principia] pleroy 0ddca8d - Merge pull request #2681 from pleroy/Clang Turns out we need the mathematica library
<_whitenotifier-9244> [Principia] pleroy labeled pull request #2681: Turns out we need the mathematica library - https://git.io/JJNje
<_whitenotifier-9244> [Principia] eggrobin unlabeled pull request #2681: Turns out we need the mathematica library - https://git.io/JJNje
<_whitenotifier-9244> [Principia] eggrobin labeled pull request #2681: Turns out we need the mathematica library - https://git.io/JJNje
<discord-> S​tandecco. — @egg if I want to detect if principia is installed, is this an extremely dumb method?
<discord-> S​tandecco. — ```Cs
<discord-> S​tandecco. — foreach (var a in AssemblyLoader.loadedAssemblies)
<discord-> S​tandecco. — {
<discord-> S​tandecco. — AssemblyName nameObject = new AssemblyName(a.assembly.FullName);
<discord-> S​tandecco. — string realName = nameObject.Name;
<discord-> S​tandecco. —
<discord-> S​tandecco. — if (realName.Equals("ksp_plugin_adapter"))
<discord-> S​tandecco. — {
<discord-> S​tandecco. — _principiaFound = true;
<discord-> S​tandecco. — break;
<discord-> S​tandecco. — }
<discord-> S​tandecco. — }```
<discord-> S​tandecco. — oh, that's nice and compact
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<discord-> B​utcher. — Time for a second attaempt at a useful L2 relay.
<discord-> B​utcher. — Time for a second attempt at a useful L2 relay. (edited)
<discord-> l​pg. — One consequence of keeping vessels around I hadn't fully appreciated: my scene change times are up above 3 minutes, and apparently it's Principia. Deleting all vessels _or_ deleting Principia removes a solid 3-minute "pause" in ksp.log
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — what year are you in?
<discord-> P​rofiremu23. — > Sorry had to go. 16GB is recommended for KSP RO anyway, and moreso for Principia but I get by on 8.
<discord-> P​rofiremu23. — @Anomaly I have 8Gb of RAM anyway, but i have no problems
<discord-> P​rofiremu23. — > Sorry had to go. 16GB is recommended for KSP RO anyway, and moreso for Principia but I get by on 8.
<discord-> P​rofiremu23. — @Anomaly I have 8GB of RAM anyway, but i have no problems (edited)
<discord-> l​pg. — 1961. it's not principia having to recompute the state of the solar system, since deleting vessels "fixes" it
<discord-> S​tonesmile. — It looks like some work is being done towards 2400, wonder what the status of that is
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — I wonder aswell 🙂
<discord-> S​tonesmile. — Only the 🥚 knows (and pleroy)
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — I wonder if he would tell us 🙂
<discord-> P​rofiremu23. — 🥚 is not online
<discord-> B​utcher. — @lpg It;s principia having to load several hundred meg of history data.
<discord-> S​tonesmile. — Related; https://github.com/mockingbirdnest/Principia/issues/2400
<discord-> l​pg. — I'm quite aware of _that_ issue
<discord-> l​pg. — saves take a few seconds, not minutes
<discord-> l​pg. — (why would it need to load history data on every scene change?)
<discord-> s​iimav. — Because that's what KSP itself does
<discord-> l​pg. — 🤨 ksp itself doesn't have history data
<discord-> s​iimav. — But KSP does serialize and deserialize all the history data that Principia has.
<discord-> s​iimav. — Doesn't even matter whether Principia wants that or not.
<discord-> l​pg. — ah. well in any case, something's gone horribly wrong if ~10x slower than saving it
<discord-> l​pg. — ah. well in any case, something's gone horribly wrong if loading is ~10x slower than saving it (edited)
<discord-> S​tandecco. — I'm really curious how it is possible that changing scenes is so slow. What is the huge bottleneck that makes scene changes so long?
<discord-> s​cimas. — From what I remember egg saying in the past, KSP reads and writes saves at stupidly slow rates. If the (de)serialization is dependent on that, it will be slow too.
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — what an absolute joke man
<_whitenotifier-9244> [Principia] pleroy opened pull request #2682: Support for secular terms in the Кудрявцев projection - https://git.io/JJA8i
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<_whitenotifier-9244> [Principia] Success. Build finished. - http://casanova.westeurope.cloudapp.azure.com:8080/job/Principia/4463/
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<discord-> e​gg. — Indeed @Standecco remembers correctly
<discord-> B​utcher. — Separate save data file for principia? 🤔
<discord-> l​amont. — It may not be KSP, it may be Windows that reads and writes data at stupidly slow rates. I can Debug.Log like 100 messages per tick on Mac/Linux and don't lose framerate while people scream if I have a single Debug.Log per frame on Windows. Also at work windows is typically 10x slower for file i/o than Mac/Linux and is a huge problem for startup times for our CLI apps that none of our *nix distros
<discord-> l​amont. — Throwing sysinternals at the problem to figure out where the slowdown is might help, and there might be better APIs to use outside of KSP/Unity to bypass whatever the hell is slow.
<discord-> B​utcher. — Windows has about 10 file apis which doesn;t help.
<discord-> l​amont. — The KSP ConfigNode Parser/Generator is pretty crazy though that may also just inherently be slow
<discord-> B​utcher. — Actual ReadFile is pretty quick IME.
<discord-> l​amont. — yeah my guess is that 1 of those APIs is probably fast and the others have horrible Win95 backcompat issues that slow them down by 10x, but you need to work at Redmond to know the correct incantations
<discord-> B​utcher. — The other issue is read sizes of course - if you nibble the file a few bytes at a time windows is going to kill you.
<discord-> e​gg. — I would parcimoniously assume this is ksp being stupid, after all Principia can log gigabytes in its own files fine
<discord-> B​utcher. — If you just say, "I'll have 100MB please" it's quick.
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<discord-> e​gg. — that may be that, but in any case the ios il on the save files are stupidly slow. 2400 is progressing as others commented, though it will take time.
<Starseeker> Oh, something I wanted to ask but forgot last night: is orbital decay from atmospheric drag modelled?
<discord-> s​iimav. — According to the changelog, KSP 1.10 should have some improvements to load times so maybe they did some tinkering with the confignode loader as well?
<discord-> l​pg. — I'm going to reiterate one last time that it's scene changes that are stupidly slow. manual saves are comparatively zippy. Blaming slow writes makes no sense
<discord-> K​obymaru. — > I'm going to reiterate one last time that it's scene changes that are stupidly slow. manual saves are comparatively zippy. Blaming slow writes makes no sense
<discord-> K​obymaru. — @lpg When you change scene, the game state and every plugin is serialized. Then every plugin is deserialized again
<discord-> e​gg. — @lpg slow loads
<discord-> e​gg. — KSP is slow when*reading* large save files
<discord-> e​gg. — KSP is slow when *reading* large save files (edited)
<discord-> e​gg. — KSP is slow at *reading* large save files (edited)
<discord-> K​obymaru. — does it also use a lot of memory while loading? Does anybody know?
<discord-> K​obymaru. — My scene switch times are also atrocious and it often just crashes with OOM
<discord-> K​obymaru. — wondering if the large Principia vessel history states might be somehow involved
<discord-> l​amont. — parsing data formats often uses tons of memory
<discord-> l​amont. — particularly if the parser is constructing intermediate strings and then throwing them away after converting them to numbers and such
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<_whitenotifier-9244> [Principia] eggrobin labeled pull request #2682: Support for secular terms in the Кудрявцев projection - https://git.io/JJA8i
<discord-> K​obymaru. — These spikes are brutal
<discord-> K​obymaru. — those are scene changes
<discord-> K​obymaru. — but I have no idea if it's really related to principia.
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<Starseeker> Oh, something I wanted to ask but forgot last night: is orbital decay from atmospheric drag modeled?
<discord-> S​tonesmile. — No, Principia still uses the stock definition of in or out of the atmosphere
<Starseeker> Ah, gotcha
<_whitenotifier-9244> [Principia] pleroy closed pull request #2682: Support for secular terms in the Кудрявцев projection - https://git.io/JJA8i
<_whitenotifier-9244> [Principia] pleroy pushed 3 commits to master [+0/-0/±4] https://git.io/JJA2H
<_whitenotifier-9244> [Principia] pleroy dd6fcc5 - Generate the secular basis.
<_whitenotifier-9244> [Principia] pleroy 66661f8 - A test of the secular case.
<_whitenotifier-9244> [Principia] pleroy 73de885 - Merge pull request #2682 from pleroy/Secular Support for secular terms in the Кудрявцев projection
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<discord-> B​utcher. — L2 success, I have a useful relay out there.
<_whitenotifier-9244> [Principia] pleroy opened pull request #2683: ToMathematica for polynomials and (not quite) Poisson series - https://git.io/JJArk
<_whitenotifier-9244> [Principia] Pending. Build queued… - 
<_whitenotifier-9244> [Principia] Pending. Building… - http://casanova.westeurope.cloudapp.azure.com:8080/job/Principia/4464/
<_whitenotifier-9244> [Principia] pleroy synchronize pull request #2683: ToMathematica for polynomials and (not quite) Poisson series - https://git.io/JJArk
<_whitenotifier-9244> [Principia] Failure. Build finished. - http://casanova.westeurope.cloudapp.azure.com:8080/job/Principia/4464/
<_whitenotifier-9244> [Principia] Pending. Build queued… - 
<_whitenotifier-9244> [Principia] Pending. Building… - http://casanova.westeurope.cloudapp.azure.com:8080/job/Principia/4465/
<_whitenotifier-9244> [Principia] Failure. Build finished. - http://casanova.westeurope.cloudapp.azure.com:8080/job/Principia/4465/
<_whitenotifier-9244> [Principia] pleroy commented on pull request #2683: ToMathematica for polynomials and (not quite) Poisson series - https://git.io/JJAoa
<_whitenotifier-9244> [Principia] Pending. Build queued… - 
<_whitenotifier-9244> [Principia] Pending. Building… - http://casanova.westeurope.cloudapp.azure.com:8080/job/Principia/4466/
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<discord-> l​pg. — Good good. scene load makes ksp.exe memory usage (per task manager) drop down to 16GB (!), then back up to 29GB (!!). Tried twice in a row with similar numbers, so at least there's no obvious leak
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<discord-> l​pg. — Good god. scene load makes ksp.exe memory usage (per task manager) drop down to 16GB (!), then back up to 29GB (!!). Tried twice in a row with similar numbers, so at least there's no obvious leak (edited)