raptop changed the topic of #principia to: READ THE FAQ: http://goo.gl/gMZF9H; The current version is Galileo. We currently target 1.5.1, 1.6.1, 1.7.x, 1.8.1, and 1.9.1. <scott_manley> anyone that doubts the wisdom of retrograde bop needs to get the hell out | https://xkcd.com/323/ | <egg> calculating the influence of lamont on Pluto is a bit silly… | <egg> also 4e16 m * 2^-52 is uncomfortably large
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<discord-_> C​handy. — Sorry if this sounds stupid, but when i make a manuever it expects the burn to only last like 30 seconds and then the manuever goes away. am i not starting soon enough?
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<discord-_> S​tonesmile. — You have to follow the timing in tge principia window, principia hijacks the stock manouver node system and teh timing is not to be trusted
<discord-_> S​tonesmile. — You have to follow the timing in tge principia window, principia hijacks the stock manouver node system and the timing is not to be trusted (edited)
<discord-_> S​tonesmile. — You have to follow the timing in the principia window, principia hijacks the stock manouver node system and the timing is not to be trusted (edited)
<discord-_> C​handy. — Yeah i know that's what i'm talking about
<discord-_> C​handy. — is it because the engine i use hadn't been turned on?
<discord-_> S​tonesmile. — Principia has no idea about staging, so if you stage during the burn, that would cause issues. It could also be tthat if you are playing RO the engines need time to start up, which leads to a delay in thrust. You get around that by starting the burn a little early
<discord-_> S​tonesmile. — Principia has no idea about staging, so if you stage during the burn, that would cause issues. It could also be that if you are playing RO the engines need time to start up, which leads to a delay in thrust. You get around that by starting the burn a little early (edited)
<discord-_> C​handy. — Well i had used a new flight plan when i got into space and set up a manuever to help me circularize. but the burn wouldn't work
<discord-_> S​tonesmile. — Would it be possible to post pics?
<discord-_> C​handy. — I think it's because the burn would be longer than the time i have to my ap, and in principia's idea i should already be burning
<discord-_> B​utcher. — That would be an issue, also you need to have have the engines active and the craft mass correct before flight planning.
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<discord-_> B​utcher. — I sent a Kerbal on EVA and my nice free return changed from 10 km Earth Pe to an impact. 😅
<discord-_> F​arrier. — So... If I find myself in this situation, what should I do? Am I launching wrong, or I should add dV?
<discord-_> e​gg. — @Butcher I have never really thought about how we handle conservation laws in the presence of EVAing kerbals, this may well be incorrect
<discord-_> e​gg. — @Farrier what do things look like in Mars-centred Sun-aligned
<discord-_> F​arrier. — Do tools like this work well with Principia. It says it needs only 3k dV to Mars which seems unreal
<discord-_> F​arrier. — Pretty much the same
<discord-_> e​gg. — if it works IRL it works in Principia, but I am not familiar with every tool of every university on the planet; read the fine print to see what their assumptions are
<discord-_> F​arrier. — Do tools like this work well with Principia? It says it needs only 3k dV to Mars which seems unreal (edited)
<discord-_> B​utcher. — @egg Still a reasonable trajectory, I'm only just clipping the terrain:
<discord-_> B​utcher. — Also neatly dodging the radiation belts.
<discord-_> e​gg. — nice
<discord-_> B​utcher. — The inner belt at least, it does fly through the outer belt.
<discord-_> e​gg. — @Farrier look at it from above the plane of Mars’s orbit, the perspective there makes it impossible to figure out what the (mostly in-plane) trajectory looks like
<discord-_> F​arrier. — Like this?
<discord-_> e​gg. — showing the whole transfer
<discord-_> e​gg. — I am not sure what you want us to see by looking at tiny bits of trajectory close to mars, once you are there it is too late; if the question is whether the transfer is good, we need to see the transfer
<discord-_> e​gg. — OK, and what does it look like in Sun-Centred Inertial
<discord-_> e​gg. — this does not look like a transfer in minimal-Δv conditions, look at the angle at which your transfer orbit intercepts Mars’s
<discord-_> F​arrier. — How about this?
<discord-_> e​gg. — that looks more reasonable from that point of view (but you will want to look at it in a Mars-centred frame to see whether you approach Mars or whether your aphelion is in the wrong place along its orbit
<discord-_> e​gg. — that looks more reasonable from that point of view (but you will want to look at it in a Mars-centred frame to see whether you approach Mars or whether your aphelion is in the wrong place along its orbit) (edited)
<discord-_> F​arrier. — The problem is it's still much higher
<discord-_> e​gg. — well, apply a binormal correction then
<discord-_> e​gg. — (assuming you mean high above the plane of the orbit; if you mean distant, then you may be in the wrong place along the orbit and you may not have correctly picked the launch window)
<discord-_> e​gg. — (and stop using Mars-Centred Inertial to look at a transfer, the transfer trajectory is completely unreadable in that frame)
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<discord-_> e​gg. — (in particular, in MCI, "along the orbit of Mars" is not a fixed direction, so you cannot tell whether you are in the wrong place along the orbit)
<discord-_> D​amien. — I know that pain too well
<discord-_> F​arrier. — If I keep the nice angle from the picture above, in MCSA it looks like this :\
<discord-_> e​gg. — yeah, so wrong timing
<discord-_> B​utcher. — Oops, clicked the stupid "warp to soi" button, it jumped me forward 2 days.
<discord-_> B​utcher. — Can those be turned off?
<discord-_> e​gg. — see, you are reaching the aphelion (which is as far from the sun as Mars would be) further along Mars’s orbit
<discord-_> e​gg. — So you would need to launch earlier
<discord-_> F​arrier. — How do you choose transfer windows usually?
<discord-_> e​gg. — you pick a real-life transfer window, they are generally listed somewhere
<discord-_> e​gg. — well, how do *I*, I don’t I don’t play the game
<discord-_> e​gg. — but my understanding is that this is an easy way to find windows
<discord-_> F​arrier. — Yeah, but it gives like a two-month optimal window.
<discord-_> F​arrier. — > you pick a real-life transfer window, they are generally listed somewhere
<discord-_> F​arrier. — @egg
<discord-_> e​gg. — well the two-month period is going to have variable cost
<discord-_> e​gg. — if you want minimal cost, you will narrow it down; here you are too late for minimal cost
<discord-_> e​gg. — @Damien may be able to elaborate on finding windows
<discord-_> F​arrier. — It gives minimal cost of 3k dV, which as I said sounds insane 😃
<discord-_> F​arrier. — Can't even escape Earth with 3k dV
<discord-_> e​gg. — well yes, you need to read what it says
<discord-_> e​gg. — it says v∞
<discord-_> e​gg. — so that is *on top of escape velocity*
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<discord-_> B​utcher. — 3k on top of v∞ seems expensive for Mars.
<UmbralRaptop> Something something Oberth
<discord-_> F​arrier. — > 3k on top of v∞ seems expensive for Mars.
<discord-_> F​arrier. — @Butcher That's what's I'm thinking 😅
<egg|cell|egg> Uh sorry on top of escape, not escape velocity
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<egg|cell|egg> See the Wikipedia article on hyperbolic orbits
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<discord-_> e​gg. — so that is *on top of escape* (edited)
<discord-_> e​gg. — @Farrier @Butcher see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperbolic_trajectory#Velocity
<discord-_> e​gg. — so the Δv you want satisfies (vLEO + Δv)² = v(escape at LEO altitude)² + v∞²
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<discord-_> e​gg. — If you look at the table in https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hohmann_transfer_orbit#Application_to_interplanetary_travel, there is a column for v∞ which says 2.9 km/s for Mars, and one that says 3.6 km/s which is the Δv you want
<discord-_> e​gg. — @Farrier note that there is absolutely nothing Principia-specific about this, this is exactly the same as in stock
<discord-_> F​arrier. — Yeah, all my pictures above were with 3,6k dV
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<discord-_> e​gg. — OK so that is the number sorted
<discord-_> e​gg. — as for the window, I guess you are a bit late?
<discord-_> F​arrier. — Probably. But I still can't figure out why the porkchop gives such a wide window. And I even launched when it says lowest cost possible.
<discord-_> e​gg. — note that the palest blue area on the graph is 2.95 to 3.45 v∞, so as much as 4 km/s may be required in that area
<discord-_> F​arrier. — Yeah, I know.
<discord-_> e​gg. — that plot could use some more contours
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<discord-_> s​cimas. — @Butcher I think you meant the "warp to" buttons from KAC, they can be turned off in its settings.
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<discord-_> F​arrier. — I'm going to sleep, it's past 2 am 😅 I'm probably not launching properly. I just pushed 'Launch to target LAN'.
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<discord-_> n​9gaming. — *quick update, setting root part to a fuel tank rather than the cockpit stopped the bugs I was encountering with space planes earlier*
<discord-_> B​utcher. — @scimas ah those are kac? Makes sense.
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<_whitenotifier-9244> [Principia] pleroy opened pull request #2666: Computation of the precise mode of a quasi-periodic function using dot product - https://git.io/JJXCt
<_whitenotifier-9244> [Principia] Pending. Build queued… - 
<_whitenotifier-9244> [Principia] Pending. Building… - http://casanova.westeurope.cloudapp.azure.com:8080/job/Principia/4435/
<_whitenotifier-9244> [Principia] eggrobin reviewed pull request #2666 commit - https://git.io/JJXCE
<_whitenotifier-9244> [Principia] eggrobin reviewed pull request #2666 commit - https://git.io/JJXCu
<_whitenotifier-9244> [Principia] eggrobin reviewed pull request #2666 commit - https://git.io/JJXCz
<_whitenotifier-9244> [Principia] eggrobin labeled pull request #2666: Computation of the precise mode of a quasi-periodic function using dot product - https://git.io/JJXCt
<_whitenotifier-9244> [Principia] pleroy synchronize pull request #2666: Computation of the precise mode of a quasi-periodic function using dot product - https://git.io/JJXCt
<_whitenotifier-9244> [Principia] Pending. Build queued… - 
<_whitenotifier-9244> [Principia] Failure. Build finished. - http://casanova.westeurope.cloudapp.azure.com:8080/job/Principia/4435/
<_whitenotifier-9244> [Principia] Pending. Building… - http://casanova.westeurope.cloudapp.azure.com:8080/job/Principia/4436/
<_whitenotifier-9244> [Principia] Failure. Build finished. - http://casanova.westeurope.cloudapp.azure.com:8080/job/Principia/4436/
<_whitenotifier-9244> [Principia] pleroy synchronize pull request #2666: Computation of the precise mode of a quasi-periodic function using dot product - https://git.io/JJXCt
<_whitenotifier-9244> [Principia] Pending. Build queued… - 
<_whitenotifier-9244> [Principia] Pending. Building… - http://casanova.westeurope.cloudapp.azure.com:8080/job/Principia/4437/
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<_whitenotifier-9244> [Principia] Success. Build finished. - http://casanova.westeurope.cloudapp.azure.com:8080/job/Principia/4437/
<_whitenotifier-9244> [Principia] pleroy closed pull request #2666: Computation of the precise mode of a quasi-periodic function using dot product - https://git.io/JJXCt
<_whitenotifier-9244> [Principia] pleroy pushed 10 commits to master [+7/-1/±54] https://git.io/JJXlR
<_whitenotifier-9244> [Principia] pleroy f5accb5 - Too many templates.
<_whitenotifier-9244> [Principia] pleroy 39972d4 - Merge branch 'master' into PreciseMode
<_whitenotifier-9244> [Principia] pleroy 433296e - Merge branch 'master' into PreciseMode
<_whitenotifier-9244> [Principia] ... and 7 more commits.
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