raptop changed the topic of #principia to: READ THE FAQ: http://goo.gl/gMZF9H; The current version is Galileo. We currently target 1.5.1, 1.6.1, 1.7.x, 1.8.1, and 1.9.1. <scott_manley> anyone that doubts the wisdom of retrograde bop needs to get the hell out | https://xkcd.com/323/ | <egg> calculating the influence of lamont on Pluto is a bit silly… | <egg> also 4e16 m * 2^-52 is uncomfortably large
Jesin has joined #principia
egg|anbo|egg_ has joined #principia
UmbralRaptop has quit [Ping timeout: 204 seconds]
UmbralRaptop has joined #principia
egg|anbo|egg__ has joined #principia
egg|anbo|egg_ has quit [Ping timeout: 204 seconds]
egg|anbo|egg__ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
egg|anbo|egg_ has joined #principia
egg|anbo|egg__ has joined #principia
egg|anbo|egg_ has quit [Ping timeout: 189 seconds]
egg|anbo|egg__ has quit [Ping timeout: 189 seconds]
egg|anbo|egg_ has joined #principia
<discord->
Calvin_Maclure. — @Butcher @Stonesmile per our previous conversation. Found this to be rather informative and interesting:
<discord->
Zeusbeer. — had 2 rotten eggs this week
<discord->
Zeusbeer. — unluckiest week in my life in terms of eggs
<discord->
Damien. — Put them in water. If they sink they're good. If they float they're bad
<discord->
Zeusbeer. — I know that trick, but first I always shake the egg to check for an air pocket, and if I get no air pocket I don't check them
<discord->
Zeusbeer. — and then rotten egg happens
<discord->
Zeusbeer. — it's always the last egg I put in my pan 👀
<discord->
Zeusbeer. — once I had a seetrough egg, no yoke, just entirely translucent, so I still decided to bake it for science and it turned green and stunk after baking
<discord->
Damien. — I had 6 double yolks in a row once. Best eggs ever
egg|cell|egg has quit [Ping timeout: 204 seconds]
egg|cell|egg has joined #principia
<discord->
Calvin_Maclure. — Umm... at what point are you suppose to be able to have the node marker appear on the navball?
<discord->
Calvin_Maclure. — Also, I also enjoy eggs. *coughs*
<discord->
Zeusbeer. — just a single tracking station upgrade did the trick for me
<discord->
Calvin_Maclure. — Hmm... that's gonna be a problem for me
<discord->
Zeusbeer. — it's alright, you can deal without it, just make sure you only do a 1 direction manouver
<discord->
Zeusbeer. — and then just burn say tangent for as long as the manouver planner says you do
<discord->
Zeusbeer. — and then just burn say tangent for as long as the manouver planner says you have to do (edited)
<discord->
Calvin_Maclure. — 1 direction maneuver? As it, only tangent or only normal?
<discord->
Zeusbeer. — yeah basically, that way you don't need the marker, you can just burn prograde in the same frame as the manouver planner
<discord->
Calvin_Maclure. — yeah... this is for a TLI, so... that's gonna be rather hard to do, I figure
<discord->
Calvin_Maclure. — only having one component for the TLI
<discord->
Zeusbeer. — how? all you need for that is the time slider and the tangent slider
<discord->
Calvin_Maclure. — Perhaps. But it all depends on the inclination I'm launching into
<discord->
Calvin_Maclure. — @Butcher so trying to run your kOS script and it's giving me an error
<discord->
Zeusbeer. — at any inclination you should only need tangent / time sliders, if you use other sliders your wasting dv to cosine losses
<discord->
Calvin_Maclure. — Not untrue!
<discord->
Zeusbeer. — ?
<discord->
Calvin_Maclure. — Are you, by any chance, good with kOS?
<discord->
Zeusbeer. — best thing I ever scripted was an orbit script for stock ksp :magic:
<discord->
Calvin_Maclure. — close enough!
<discord->
Calvin_Maclure. — Any idea what this means:
<discord->
Builderbast. — The command I use is runpath("LunarLaunchOrbit").
<discord->
Builderbast. — I think
<discord->
Zeusbeer. — why don't you just use mechjeb pvg ?
<discord->
Builderbast. — It doesnt do to well with launching for a lunar intercept in principia
<discord->
Calvin_Maclure. — Cause Principia
<discord->
Calvin_Maclure. — Else I'd use MJ as I have done in the past many many times!
<_whitenotifier-9244>
[Principia] pleroy opened pull request #2696: A trait to represent a Hilbert space - https://git.io/JUIlM
<discord->
Zeusbeer. — are you on cape ?
<discord->
Calvin_Maclure. — I am
<discord->
Calvin_Maclure. — gah??
<discord->
Zeusbeer. — you can still get to the moon cheaper by just launching into a general orbit and then using prograde/time sliders to make the moon catch underneeth your probe
<discord->
Zeusbeer. — also you can still use pvg, but it will do an extremely expensive dogleg manouver
<discord->
Butcher. — @Calvin_Maclure what is in the file?
<discord->
Calvin_Maclure. — > @Calvin_Maclure what is in the file?
<discord->
Calvin_Maclure. — @Butcher How do I find out?
<discord->
Calvin_Maclure. — What do I need to open it with?
<discord->
Butcher. — @Calvin_Maclure I can get it to give you an azimuth if you want.
<discord->
Builderbast. — And -90 is towards the south pole and 90 towards the north pole
<discord->
Butcher. — The maths is pretty simple.
<discord->
Calvin_Maclure. — > And -90 is towards the south pole and 90 towards the north pole
<discord->
Calvin_Maclure. — @Builderbast that's exactly right
<discord->
Butcher. — 61.6° South means an azimuth of around 120°
<discord->
Calvin_Maclure. — So, if (in my case) East is 0°, then this would be an inclination of -30 south
<discord->
lpg. — not an inclination, an azimuth
<discord->
Calvin_Maclure. — yes, sorry, meant that
<discord->
lpg. — but what are you using that's giving 0 azimuth as east?
<discord->
Butcher. — Might want to double check the numbers, I just did that one off the top of my head.
<discord->
Builderbast. — Wait in terms of azimuth, east is 90 degrees
<discord->
Calvin_Maclure. — Well, if the giving incl value by the script is 61 deg, then I would just normally launch to that. If a contract specifies, say 97 deg, I put 97 in and it takes me to that incl value. So as long as that script's readout is the same, I'm fine.
<discord->
Builderbast. — So 120 sounds about right for 61.6 degrees south
<discord->
Builderbast. — So 120 degrees azimuth sounds about right for 61.6 degrees south (edited)
<discord->
Calvin_Maclure. — Man... 10 days to rollout to the pad complete, Lunar flyby and impact expire in 15!
<discord->
Calvin_Maclure. — Ok... so I'm doing something very very wrong
<discord->
Calvin_Maclure. — I was given 32 deg by your script, to I put in -58 (so, 32 from the south) and I am WAY off being able to get an intercept just off of a tangential burn.
<discord->
lpg. — it will be quite off. enable Inertially Fixed, at least
<discord->
Butcher. — Don't forget to tick inertially fixed either.
<discord->
Butcher. — I still haven't managed to get kos to nail Principia burns even with guidance.
<discord->
lpg. — and you may get better results enabling Instant Impuls and eyebaling when to ignite
<discord->
lpg. — and you may get better results enabling Instant Impulse and eyebaling when to ignite (edited)
<discord->
Calvin_Maclure. — When I do click inertially fixed, I go from impact to flyby
<discord->
Calvin_Maclure. — Why?
<discord->
Calvin_Maclure. — It changes the node somewhat
<discord->
Butcher. — I tend to end up overburned.
<discord->
Butcher. — @Calvin_Maclure it's modelling your burn differently.
<discord->
Butcher. — So you get a different trajectory.
<discord->
Calvin_Maclure. — So... which do I use??
<discord->
Butcher. — Inertial.
<discord->
Calvin_Maclure. — My original node, or do I readjust it
<discord->
Calvin_Maclure. — So readjust inertial to get the impact?
<discord->
lpg. — you enable Intertial, then redo your node
<discord->
lpg. — you enable Inertial, then redo your node (edited)
<discord->
Calvin_Maclure. — Yeah ok, got it.
<discord->
lpg. — you're still going to miss because the duration's going to be based off the wrong engine
<discord->
Calvin_Maclure. — Well... if I have 3181 m/s to burn and point in the correct orientation, and burn exactly that amount (or close to), why would I miss?
<discord->
Butcher. — Timing makes a big difference to trajectory.
<discord->
Calvin_Maclure. — Oh I know, I know!
<discord->
lpg. — because you'd be burning at the wrong time, and the Earth would curve your trajectory wrong
<discord->
Calvin_Maclure. — But the ignition start is manually set by me when I created the node, as was the amount of DV
<discord->
Butcher. — Hmm I think I know why my burns keep missing. My craft mass is lower due to boiloff and rcs usage.
<discord->
lpg. — and principia is plotting a trajectory from that ignition start time, assuming the burn will take a duration that is incorrect
<discord->
Calvin_Maclure. — Mmm... I see. So my current config's mass and TWR is causing Principia to give me a diff trajectory than if I ONLY had my payload+kick stage
<discord->
lpg. — yes. and unfortinately, it isn't (anymore) possible to Activate a solid without burning it
<discord->
lpg. — yes. and unfortunately, it isn't (anymore) possible to Activate a solid without burning it (edited)
egg|cell|egg has quit [Ping timeout: 189 seconds]
<discord->
Calvin_Maclure. — So... What's the way to proceed, then? I've got the required DV in my kickstage, but it does not have the ability to orient itself, only the second stage has that. SO, if I could have the orientation, I can point, stage, and THEN create the node.
egg|cell|egg has joined #principia
<discord->
Calvin_Maclure. — .... ?
<discord->
lpg. — > and you may get better results enabling Instant Impulse and eyebaling when to ignite
<discord->
Calvin_Maclure. — Ok. Will try that!
<discord->
lpg. — most people bring along a bit of fore/aft rcs to correct the trajectory post-burn
<discord->
lpg. — if your kick stage is a liquid engine,
<discord->
lpg. — > SO, if I could have the orientation, I can point, stage, and THEN create the node
<discord->
lpg. — then this could be workable
<discord->
lpg. — plot a first best-guess maneuver to get an orientation, point to that, spin up, stage, then re-plot a maneuver that points in the same direction but possibly uses less/more dv
<discord->
Calvin_Maclure. — > most people bring along a bit of fore/aft rcs to correct the trajectory post-burn
<discord->
Calvin_Maclure. — @lpg Oh, of course!! I have THAT on the probe itself
<discord->
lpg. — it'll never be perfect
<discord->
Calvin_Maclure. — > plot a first best-guess maneuver to get an orientation, point to that, spin up, stage, then re-plot a maneuver that points in the same direction but possibly uses less/more dv
<discord->
Calvin_Maclure. — @lpg This is exactly what I'm thinking. Just not 100% sure how to figure out the orientation bit
<discord->
lpg. — "plot a first best-guess maneuver"
<discord->
Builderbast. — What i did was get a manouver that, by wasting delta v on steering losses took exactly the amount of delta v i had on me to get to the moon.
<discord->
Builderbast. — Then use the upper stage rcs to point im the right direction and then then a pair of spin motors paired with the main srb did the rest
<discord->
Builderbast. — Aimed for the middle of the moon, got to within 4Mm
<discord->
Calvin_Maclure. — 4 000 km?? That's pretty far for an impact!
<discord->
Calvin_Maclure. — Good for fly by, though
<discord->
Butcher. — Unguided impact requires luck or reloading.
<discord->
Calvin_Maclure. — The probe has fore/aft thrusters on it.
<discord->
Calvin_Maclure. — So there's a certain amount of fine tuning that can be done
<discord->
Calvin_Maclure. — But I realize it's still going to be rather hard to do
<discord->
Calvin_Maclure. — That's why I need to figure out this node thing just right.
<discord->
Calvin_Maclure. — I understand my orbital mechanics quite well, but am new to principia
<discord->
Builderbast. — Oh didnt catch the impact part
egg|anbo|egg_ has joined #principia
<discord->
Builderbast. — Yeah unguided impact is tricky
<discord->
Calvin_Maclure. — I know...
<discord->
Calvin_Maclure. — That's why I made a point to give the probe some fine tuning capability
egg|anbo|egg has quit [Ping timeout: 189 seconds]
egg|cell|egg has quit [Ping timeout: 198 seconds]
egg|cell|egg has joined #principia
<discord->
Calvin_Maclure. — If I wasn't using Principia, I honestly wouldn't be worried. I've landed stuff on Venus and made precision landings on the Moon with rovers aboard and all.
<discord->
Calvin_Maclure. — Where I'm NOT experienced is in setting up nodes and executing them with Principia. That's where the learning curve is...
<discord->
Calvin_Maclure. — So there are 3 variables: 1- orientation, 2- DV and 3- start time
<discord->
Builderbast. — First time principia here too, im still wrapping my head around the timing of burns and stuff
<discord->
Butcher. — With rcs you can get pretty precise.
<discord->
Butcher. — I have hit my rover target to within a kilometre.
<discord->
Builderbast. — Havent had the good avionics yet to get somethinh controlled to the moon
<discord->
Builderbast. — In terms of power draw
<discord->
Butcher. — I have started doing one avionics unit for orbit.
<discord->
Butcher. — Rather than splitting by stage.
<discord->
Calvin_Maclure. — My probe is a science probe, so light but still allows for fore and aft RCS burns
<discord->
Calvin_Maclure. — Just gotta figure out this bloody orientation bit
egg|anbo|egg_ has quit [Ping timeout: 194 seconds]