egg changed the topic of #principia to: Logs: https://esper.irclog.whitequark.org/principia | <scott_manley> anyone that doubts the wisdom of retrograde bop needs to get the hell out | https://xkcd.com/323/ | <egg> calculating the influence of lamont on Pluto is a bit silly…
<bees>
raptop: we should put moon in GEO
* queqiao-
⟨Al2Me6⟩ but Ike is boring
<raptop>
Boring? You can use Ike's north pole to murder kerbals!
<queqiao->
⟨DRVeyl⟩ This problem seems much more like a wiki or tutorial entry/note than a thing to solve in code.
<queqiao->
⟨egg⟩ Even when people read the wiki, I’d bet many do once they run into an issue—again the problem here is that the decision is far upstream of its consequences
<queqiao->
⟨egg⟩ (and there’s the RP-1/Principia combination which means that it would be noise for most users of either)
<queqiao->
⟨DRVeyl⟩ Noise for a lot of folks, including everyone after they learned about the issue. Which is partly why this feels like a wiki problem.
<queqiao->
⟨DRVeyl⟩
<queqiao->
⟨DRVeyl⟩ Especially given "launch into plane" isn't actually a requirement, it's just the easy solution everyone learned from stock with a launch site on the equator.
<queqiao->
⟨egg⟩ I mean, I was told that it would be noise in the RP-1 wiki start guide—and that makes sense
<queqiao->
⟨egg⟩ There is no such thing as a « read this before you start a game » guide for Principia, and the concept makes little sense (we don’t focus on career), so there’s nothing on that side that people *would* read in time
<queqiao->
⟨egg⟩ obviously it’s not a requirement, but it could be a way to smooth the learning cliff a bit
<queqiao->
⟨egg⟩ after all, stock RSS found it convenient to have the moon at that inclination
<queqiao->
⟨egg⟩ unrealistic though that is
<queqiao->
⟨lpg⟩ (except the note _I_ would add is 'if you're reading this and you installed principia, you're not ready for principia')
<queqiao->
⟨egg⟩ dunno, if I were ever to try RP-0 I’d have to read that, since I never have
<queqiao->
⟨egg⟩ (that said, perhaps that merely means I’m not ready for Principia :-p)
<queqiao->
⟨Al2Me6⟩ *You *read... the people who tend to ask 'why no launch to plane' also tend to not read...
<queqiao->
⟨Al2Me6⟩ *You* read... the people who tend to ask 'why no launch to plane' also tend to not read... (edited)
<queqiao->
⟨egg⟩ yeah that’s also why a reminder that’s a bit more in-your-face (under appropriate conditions, i.e., if RP-1 is there, once on save creation, if your latitude is more than 18° either side of the equator, etc.) might deal with that better
<queqiao->
⟨egg⟩ part of the problem is we’re having to counteract the inertia of a default setting here
<queqiao->
⟨egg⟩ (alternatively we could have an MM patch in Principia that changes the default to Kourou, I guess)
<queqiao->
⟨Al2Me6⟩ ~~How about we just 'fix' the inclination of the Moon in stock RSS~~
<queqiao->
⟨Al2Me6⟩ Hm that might annoy people who don't have KSCSwitcher installed and also expect the Cape (me)
<queqiao->
⟨egg⟩ that would be the right thing to do from the « don’t teach people wrong things » perspective, but I don’t own that mod :-p
<queqiao->
⟨egg⟩ wait, I thought it came as part of RP-1 ?
<queqiao->
⟨lpg⟩ 'core' rp-1 only recommends it
<queqiao->
⟨lpg⟩ the new "express install" probably requires it
<queqiao->
⟨Al2Me6⟩ Yes, it does. So I suppose that's less of an issue
<queqiao->
⟨Al2Me6⟩ I agree re the 'wrong lesson' perspective, but not sure if it's a great idea from a gameplay perspective, reason being the tooling for figuring out when to launch is lacing... not everyone would want to install kOS just to go to the Moon
<queqiao->
⟨egg⟩ I’d say simulate the problem first, the solutions will follow, that’s what we did in Principia
<queqiao->
⟨Al2Me6⟩ I agree re the 'wrong lesson' perspective, but not sure if it's a great idea from a gameplay perspective, reason being the tooling for figuring out when to launch is lacking... not everyone would want to install kOS just to go to the Moon (edited)
<queqiao->
⟨egg⟩ (how long did it take us to have an orbit analyser :-p)
<raptop>
Yeah, installing kOS is silly. Obviously KSP should let you write python or lua or whatever for scripting launches to orbit
<queqiao->
⟨egg⟩ Ada, obviously
<queqiao->
⟨lpg⟩ solution: fix the RSS moon inclination _and_ change the RSS default to Kourou
<raptop>
Egg has a good (floating) point
<raptop>
Ada is an eggstremely on-brand choice for missile guidance software
<bees>
Egg Space Program - you program your way to orbit, no manual control allowed.
<raptop>
>:D
<queqiao->
⟨egg⟩ honestly, average lunar inclination and default-to-Kourou makes sense; you both provide a default (and in particular, first-time) experience that’s easier, and don’t teach wrong things
<bees>
for historical reasons, you start with a simulated 4 KHz CPU with 1024 bytes of memory
<queqiao->
⟨egg⟩ (not sure I see it happening, RP-n has always looked very US-focused to me, but it makes sense)
<queqiao->
⟨lpg⟩ downside is we only just got a fancy hi-res cape full of building, which I believe also comes with the express install
<queqiao->
⟨lpg⟩ downside is we only just got a fancy hi-res cape full of buildings, which I believe also comes with the express install (edited)
<queqiao->
⟨Al2Me6⟩ Only the high-qual graphics pack, but yes
queqiao- has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
queqiao- has joined #principia
<queqiao->
⟨rocketman⟩ JWST principia replica with Kourou buldings would be interesting after launch
<raptop>
Assuming it launches
<queqiao->
⟨Al2Me6⟩ Now, if you could please not jinx it any more...
<bees>
do all endlessly-delayed projects turn into Nauka?
<bees>
wait a few years and find out!
<queqiao->
⟨ZombieZilla⟩ I have the file with only a few clouds, that could be edited out with some quick PS work. I'm just not sure how to port the image into the game
<queqiao->
⟨ZombieZilla⟩ I have the file with only a few clouds, that could (probably) be edited out with some quick PS work. I'm just not sure how to port the image into the game (edited)
<queqiao->
⟨Al2Me6⟩ If you have a cleaned up image then someone will be able to help get it in-game
<queqiao->
⟨kerbalman95⟩ Hey guys, I have a question; when planning a maneuver for a plane change, how can I get the new inclination based on the binormal deltaV. Well, I mean, how can I calculate a plane change doing a maneuver change
<queqiao->
⟨kerbalman95⟩ Hey guys, I have a question; when planning a maneuver for a plane change, how can I get the new inclination based on the binormal deltaV. Well, I mean, how can I calculate a plane change using the flightplan in principia (edited)
<queqiao->
⟨Quadrupole⟩ Press "analyze final orbit" button on the flight planner. It has all the orbital parameters.
egg|laptop|egg has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
_whitelogger has joined #principia
_whitelogger has joined #principia
egg|laptop|egg has joined #principia
<queqiao->
⟨Chad Lancer⟩ So what I've got from that conversation, is that it's probably best to launch from Korou if you want to go to the Moon?
<queqiao->
⟨egg⟩ it makes things easier/more like stock, and it means you get two launch windows per day instead of two per month
<queqiao->
⟨Chad Lancer⟩ Ah that's nice, thanks a million.
<queqiao->
⟨Chad Lancer⟩ Hold on, does switching sites reset RP-1..?
<queqiao->
⟨pEdro⟩ Nah, you are just leaving behind your VAB and Launch pads
<queqiao->
⟨Chad Lancer⟩ Damnit, I'll stick with the Cape then.
<queqiao->
⟨pEdro⟩ If you use kOS scripts its really no big deal, you still get a good transfer every day at the cape
<queqiao->
⟨pEdro⟩ not an optimal transfer, but one thats close enough
<queqiao->
⟨Chad Lancer⟩ I don't use kOS, so I'll try my best to figure it out.
<queqiao->
⟨pEdro⟩ not an optimal transfer, but one thats close enough.
<queqiao->
⟨pEdro⟩ 10m/s difference is really no big deal (edited)
<queqiao->
⟨Chad Lancer⟩ I have it installed, just don't know how to use it.
<queqiao->
⟨Chad Lancer⟩ Should we pop over to #script-automation as to not clutter up #principia?
egg|laptop|egg has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
egg|laptop|egg has joined #principia
<_whitenotifier>
[Principia] pleroy opened pull request #3128: Change the tests for Vessel to use trajectory factories - https://git.io/JzybF
<_whitenotifier>
[Principia] pleroy opened pull request #3129: Bring improved Vessel test to Entwurf and change the test for checkpointing - https://git.io/JzSmp
<_whitenotifier>
[Principia] eggrobin labeled pull request #3129: Bring improved Vessel test to Entwurf and change the test for checkpointing - https://git.io/JzSmp
<_whitenotifier>
[Principia] pleroy synchronize pull request #3129: Bring improved Vessel test to Entwurf and change the test for checkpointing - https://git.io/JzSmp
<queqiao->
⟨JosephIsHere⟩ Why is my game constantly freezing when I use Principia? A couple seconds before finishing a Hohmann transfer to Jupiter, my game freezes. I am certain that this is due to Principia. Another case of something like this happening was when i was about to land on the Moon. My game just froze. No warnings or anything like that. It just happened and the only way to fix it is to re-open the game. Do
<queqiao->
⟨ZombieZilla⟩ Hmm, does that mean my 500MB persistent.sfs is bad?
<queqiao->
⟨siimav⟩ That's getting awfully close to where your save will no longer load.
<queqiao->
⟨ZombieZilla⟩ Oh, is there a cap on save file size?
<queqiao->
⟨Soviet Onion⟩ hmm, mine is 486KB, so that's good I suppose
<_whitenotifier>
[Principia] pleroy closed pull request #3129: Bring improved Vessel test to Entwurf and change the test for checkpointing - https://git.io/JzSmp
<_whitenotifier>
[Principia] pleroy pushed 11 commits to Entwurf [+0/-0/±38] https://git.io/JzS62
<_whitenotifier>
[Principia] ... and 8 more commits.
<queqiao->
⟨ZombieZilla⟩ (I do have 25 or so probes in orbit, with even more debris)
* queqiao-
⟨Soviet Onion⟩ ISS sudden debris flashbacks
<queqiao->
⟨egg⟩ I think eventually you will run into issues, but also the bigger the slower, here you are probably enjoying minute-long scene changes
<queqiao->
⟨ZombieZilla⟩ Scene changes haven't been too bad, the ~70gb pagefile usage has been though
<queqiao->
⟨Soviet Onion⟩ hmm, so cleaning debris every now and then is good, eh?
egg|laptop|egg has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
egg|laptop|egg has joined #principia
<queqiao->
⟨pEdro⟩ Just setting persistant debris to something low like 5 is enough
Jesin has joined #principia
<queqiao->
⟨sichelgaita⟩ There is a hard limit of 512 MiB when decoding the binary representation. That's only distantly related to the size of the file because (1) the file is encoded in base 64 so it has effectively 6 bits per character (2) the file is compressed using Gipfeli which saves maybe 30%. Anyway, 500 MiB is uncomfortably close to dangerous territory. (The 512 MiB limit can be lifted by recompiling the b
egg|laptop|egg has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
<queqiao->
⟨Butcher⟩ Strictly you get two per day regardless.
<queqiao->
⟨Zeusbeer⟩ Ooooh there is a purple noodle role now! 😍
egg|laptop|egg has joined #principia
<queqiao->
⟨Dost Thou Even Shred⟩ what is a recommended video tutorial for principia for mainly maneuver nodes