egg changed the topic of #principia to: Logs: https://esper.irclog.whitequark.org/principia | <scott_manley> anyone that doubts the wisdom of retrograde bop needs to get the hell out | https://xkcd.com/323/ | <egg> calculating the influence of lamont on Pluto is a bit silly…
<queqiao->
⟨Al₂Me₆⟩ Nothing really comes to mind, unfortuantely...
<queqiao->
⟨egg⟩ test_account does "Система Координат точек Лагранжа в системе <<nom:3>> — <<nom:1>>" sound reasonable?
<queqiao->
⟨egg⟩ (where "<<nom:3>>" and "<<nom:1>>" are the names of the bodies in the nominative.)
<queqiao->
⟨egg⟩ So based on your PR it sounds like this would become
<queqiao->
Показывать: ✅ открепленные метки ✅ открепленные тела ✅ эквипотенциалы
<queqiao->
⟨egg⟩ Bit long. Maybe we can try factoring out the _открепленные_?
<queqiao->
⟨egg⟩ The other question is what to do about "Declutter map".
<queqiao->
⟨egg⟩ I based that wording off of fighter aircraft HUD controls to reduce the amount of symbology displayed (so in French I translate it to _alléger_, lit. lighten, accordingly). Maybe that can be a source of inspiration.
<queqiao->
⟨egg⟩ There is a concept of _plotting frame_ in Principia. You choose, at any time, the reference frame in which you look at things.
<queqiao->
⟨egg⟩ If you choose to look at things as orbits around the Earth, you will see everything revolve around the Earth. Again, please read the documentation that I just linked.
<queqiao->
⟨Champ0220⟩ ohhhh
<queqiao->
⟨Champ0220⟩ but when i look in the map view when on a vechile
<queqiao->
⟨egg⟩ Well now, you are in the surface frame.
<queqiao->
⟨Al₂Me₆⟩ ...please refrain from repeating your complaint until you have completely read the linked document...
<queqiao->
⟨egg⟩ If you look out the window, you will see the Sun, and the planets, revolving around you every day.
<queqiao->
⟨egg⟩ This is what you see in that screenshot from the map view.
<queqiao->
⟨Champ0220⟩ I understadn the reference now bur
<queqiao->
⟨Champ0220⟩ these orbits shoulnd be possible right?
<queqiao->
⟨Champ0220⟩ no matter the referwnce
<queqiao->
⟨Champ0220⟩ reference*
<queqiao->
⟨egg⟩ ⟪Champ0220⟫ these orbits shoulnd be possible right? ⮪ These trajectories are accurate, again, _you see them out your real window on this real planet_.
<queqiao->
⟨egg⟩ (Assuming you are on Earth, and your window is affixed to the planet’s surface.)
<queqiao->
⟨Champ0220⟩ ohhhh
<queqiao->
⟨Champ0220⟩ thank you so much
<queqiao->
⟨Champ0220⟩ sorry
<queqiao->
⟨Champ0220⟩ and thank you
<queqiao->
⟨Champ0220⟩ i was just worried my game was broken
<queqiao->
⟨egg⟩ Hm, I appear to have broken the plotting of vessel trajectories in the new frame. Presumably in #3631 somehow?
<queqiao->
⟨PrinceZola⟩ i only found the source code...
<queqiao->
⟨Al₂Me₆⟩ ⟪Bee Rights Activist⟫ https://bit.ly/3KGywvT ⮪ You might note that this link can be found at the top of the README.
<queqiao->
⟨egg⟩ PrinceZola go read the README.
<queqiao->
⟨PrinceZola⟩ ah
<queqiao->
⟨egg⟩ the README file, as its name indicates, wants to be read.
<queqiao->
⟨PrinceZola⟩ i thought i had to check the readme inside the file... which would be weird as the readme should tell me where to look for it...
<queqiao->
⟨egg⟩ It also points you to other documents which want to be read. Read them, lest you ask why the Sun is going around the Earth.
<queqiao->
⟨PrinceZola⟩ thanks nonetheless :)
<queqiao->
⟨Bee Rights Activist⟩ in case you absolutely refuse to read them, the answer is reference frames
<queqiao->
⟨egg⟩ ⟪PrinceZola⟫ i thought i had to check the readme […] ⮪ The README can be seen online, on the main page of the repository, which is linked in the /topic.
<queqiao->
⟨Bee Rights Activist⟩ +which can make anything revolve around anything else
<queqiao->
⟨egg⟩ There is no need to download the source tree.
<queqiao->
⟨PrinceZola⟩ funny purple lines
<queqiao->
⟨Bee Rights Activist⟩ compiling Principia from source is very intensive from what I’ve heard
<queqiao->
⟨egg⟩ (by the /topic, I mean the thing at the top of this chat page.)
<queqiao->
⟨Denwey⟩ Soon we'll have Principia in sumerian
<queqiao->
⟨Denwey⟩ I'm still waiting for Klingon Principia though...
<queqiao->
⟨egg⟩ ⟪Denwey⟫ Soon we'll have Principia in sumerian ⮪ 𒅴𒂠𒂠𒀠𒂂𒅴𒈬𒋛𒉡𒌒𒁲
<queqiao->
⟨Denwey⟩ oh boi
<queqiao->
⟨kingparity⟩ i’m excited for the next release i wanna mess with the new reference frame
<queqiao->
⟨egg⟩ 𒅴𒂠𒂠𒀠𒂂𒅴𒈬𒋛𒉡𒌒𒁲 ⮪ That’s eme-gir₁₅-šè al-dugud eme-ŋu₁₀ si nu-ub-sá, _my tongue is too heavy, it cannot handle Sumerian_, after a eme-gir ₁₅-šè al-dugud eme-*ni* si nu-ub-sá (same but _his tongue_, from a scribal school dispute)
<queqiao->
⟨egg⟩ * "eme-gir₁₅-šè al-dugud eme-ŋu₁₀ si nu-ub-sá", _my tongue is too heavy, it cannot handle Sumerian_, after "eme-gir ₁₅-šè al-dugud eme-ni si nu-ub-sá"
<queqiao->
⟨Al₂Me₆⟩ Ah, I finally found the cause of the repeated 已/以 mix-ups: stupid IME suggestions 🤦♂️
<queqiao->
⟨egg⟩ pinyin typos are easier to spot than 笔画 typos at least
<queqiao->
⟨Al₂Me₆⟩ ...huh, the celestial strings are getting fancier.
<queqiao->
⟨egg⟩ Oh, I forgot to put celestial strings in this one.
<queqiao->
⟨Al₂Me₆⟩ (Ah, I meant to refer to having three separate descriptions for the same frame.)
<queqiao->
⟨egg⟩ Ah yes, I decided to be fancy there. But these are « just » three separate strings, not a new fancy general syntax.
<queqiao->
⟨egg⟩ Well, they are celestial strings, so you could override them for some bodies…
<queqiao->
⟨egg⟩ I do need to have celestial strings for 日地拉格朗日 I think
<queqiao->
⟨Al₂Me₆⟩ ...oof. The existing Chinese translations use '质心' as the translation for 'centre', but which strictly speaking is the term for 'barycentre'...
<queqiao->
⟨Al₂Me₆⟩ That makes the "one moon" and "big system" cases tricky.
<queqiao->
⟨egg⟩ I do need to have celestial strings for […] ⮪ (As opposed to 太阳地球拉格朗日 or something)
<queqiao->
⟨egg⟩ ⟪Al₂Me₆⟫ ...oof. The existing Chinese […] ⮪ well, it is the centre of mass in all cases, really this is the English being approximative by saying centre of the Earth as opposed to centre of mass of the Earth.
<queqiao->
⟨egg⟩ So I guess it is always the 质心.
<queqiao->
⟨Al₂Me₆⟩ (I dislike the resulting a sentence structure and want to parenthesize it...)
<queqiao->
⟨Al₂Me₆⟩ * it, even in English...)
<queqiao->
⟨egg⟩ Feel free to suggest changes to the English, not much care went into it; actually, feel free to suggest changes even to the substance of the English tooltip that says what this is good for, since you are probably the one who has the most experience using this reference frame :-p
<queqiao->
⟨Al₂Me₆⟩ What, for a total of less than 2 hours? 😂
<queqiao->
⟨egg⟩ But spent actually seeing how the noodles behaved, whereas I was just looking at whether the game froze and whether the equipotentials were drawn in the right neighbourhood.
<paculino>
Is there a point at which you'll just try to make the navball have more room to put the text instead of shortening it?
<queqiao->
⟨Al₂Me₆⟩ Modifying the game UI like that is probably, uh, _nasty_.
<paculino>
What about forcing scaling and then making text be two lines?
<queqiao->
⟨lpg⟩ icons & tooltips
<queqiao->
⟨lpg⟩ just gotta convince nathankell it's worth it
<queqiao->
⟨Al₂Me₆⟩ (I dislike the resulting sentence structure and want to parenthesize it, even in English...)
<paculino>
Trimethylaluminium, did you just repeat yourself, or does the bridge have a delayed loop for edited messages?
<queqiao->
⟨egg⟩ The bridge is not smart about edits to old messages.
_whitelogger has joined #principia
_whitelogger has joined #principia
<queqiao->
⟨SelfAnnexatingDivinity⟩ ⟪egg⟫ Bit long. Maybe we can try factoring […] ⮪ A bit difficult solution would be to replace 'show' with 'unpin', so it becomes something like this: "открепить: метки тела эквипотенциалы"
<queqiao->
⟨SelfAnnexatingDivinity⟩ ⟪egg⟫ aha, I found https://studylib.net/doc/25[…] ⮪ That's somewhat unrelated to the context of 'declutter map' in Principia, but it gets the job done.
<queqiao->
The simplest translation would be Declutter Map > Убрать Лишние Метки
<queqiao->
⟨test_account⟩ Another option would be "Скрыть" ("Hide"), it's not good on its own but can be ok with ontext
<queqiao->
Скрыть ✅ Незакреплённые метки ✅ Незакреплённые тела ✅ эквипотенциалы"
<queqiao->
Скрыть ✅ Откреплённые метки ✅ Откреплённые тела ✅ эквипотенциалы"
<queqiao->
(I like "незакреплённые" more because unpinned is the default state, you need to pin something to make it pinned).
<queqiao->
⟨test_account⟩ * context
<queqiao->
⟨test_account⟩ * a good translation
<queqiao->
⟨SelfAnnexatingDivinity⟩ ⟪test_account⟫ Another option would be "Скрыть" […] ⮪ The 'незакреплённые' variant is more readable in my _honest_ russkie opinion
<queqiao->
⟨SelfAnnexatingDivinity⟩ ⟪vevladdd 🇺🇦⟫ Скрыть лишнее/лишние метки. More […] ⮪ 'Скрыть лишнее' is probably the best. 'Убрать лишнее' can be mistaken for deleting something
<queqiao->
⟨egg⟩ ⟪test_account⟫ Another option would be "Скрыть" […] ⮪ This is backward, I am inverting the logic in this PR: checked now means show, not hide.
<queqiao->
⟨egg⟩ I would like the polarity of the checkboxes not to be language-dependent…
<queqiao->
⟨test_account⟩ I see, I was thinking how it works now
<queqiao->
⟨test_account⟩ In this case "Показать" (Show) is an option
<queqiao->
Показать ✅ Незакреплённые метки ✅ Незакреплённые тела ✅ эквипотенциалы"
<queqiao->
⟨Al₂Me₆⟩ ⟪egg⟫ Al₂Me₆ (@_discord_721843413456257114:mat[…] ⮪ We may as well preserve the ‘的’ in all cases. I had that there at first but figured it read well enough without (but only considered the simple cases).
<queqiao->
⟨Al₂Me₆⟩ But sure, fancy works too 😆
<queqiao->
⟨egg⟩ 地月系质心 seems to eggsist as a phrase (note the 系统 getting abbreviated too), but yeah, the general case should avoid mixing levels of abbreviation
<queqiao->
⟨Al₂Me₆⟩ ⟪egg⟫ 地哞 ⮪ > no context 😂
<queqiao->
⟨egg⟩ well I was talking about 地月 🐮
<queqiao->
⟨egg⟩ that 拉格朗日 button next to 惯性系 体固系 轨道系 makes me sad…
<queqiao->
⟨egg⟩ especially since it really should be 拉格朗日点系
<queqiao->
⟨Al₂Me₆⟩ Heh
<queqiao->
⟨Al₂Me₆⟩ I had a thought last night… it is somewhat acceptable to compress characters by maybe 10 or 20%. You’d usually see that in newspaper headings or some such.
<queqiao->
⟨egg⟩ Things would be easier if these points had been found by some Chinese mathematician.
<queqiao->
⟨egg⟩ 仓点系 🤪
<queqiao->
⟨Al₂Me₆⟩ Apparently ‘平动点’ is a thing, but no clue how common it is. Nor would we want to use another term just in one situation.
<queqiao->
⟨egg⟩ right, libration points
<queqiao->
⟨Al₂Me₆⟩ ⟪egg⟫ 仓点系 🤪 ⮪ Hm. It may not be entirely ridiculous to abbreviate a long name to the first syllable only, give sufficient context and sufficient need. But that’s almost certainly uncontested and I’d run it by actual Chinese users and see how they’d react. For this case it would come off a bit weird, methinks…
<queqiao->
⟨egg⟩ Hm. "地月拉点" seems to exist, but it is certainly not widespread.
<queqiao->
⟨Al₂Me₆⟩ * unattested
<queqiao->
⟨egg⟩ "地月L点" is more common, for instance.
<queqiao->
⟨egg⟩ ⟪Al₂Me₆⟫ I had a thought last night… it is […] ⮪ Obvious solution: ⿱⿰ 拉格⿰朗日
<queqiao->
⟨egg⟩ and write it in seal script while you are at it
<queqiao->
⟨Al₂Me₆⟩ …I don’t think my phone is rendering that properly
<queqiao->
⟨egg⟩ it is, those characters are meant for description, not for actual shaping.
<queqiao->
⟨egg⟩ e.g., to say that 格 is ⿰木各
<queqiao->
⟨Al₂Me₆⟩ Huh, neat.
<queqiao->
⟨egg⟩ In fact 地月L点 is attested on cast.cn, and both 地月L点 and 日地L点 are attested on CNKI, so I guess I could go with L点系…
<queqiao->
⟨egg⟩ ⟪Al₂Me₆⟫ We may as well preserve the ‘的’ in all […] ⮪ Hm. I am seeing things like 太阳系行星系统质心, so might as well keep it without the 的.
<queqiao->
⟨egg⟩ (I do need to add celestial strings for the 地月 stuff though.)
<queqiao->
⟨egg⟩ Except for the celestial strings.
<queqiao->
⟨egg⟩ 天串.cfg
<queqiao->
⟨egg⟩ ⟪test_account⟫ "Declutter" = "Очистить" looks best. […] ⮪ Note that the original is "Declutter map". I wouldn’t be too worried about size, but a verb that gets used a a translation of _clear_ seems overly strong.
<queqiao->
Can something along the lines of Упростить карту work?
<queqiao->
⟨test_account⟩ I don't really like Упростить, it's not clear what it does (simpify how?)
<queqiao->
⟨test_account⟩ Очистить is too strong but it's clear that it will remove something from the map
<queqiao->
⟨test_account⟩ I don't really like Упростить, it's not clear what it does (simplify how?)
<queqiao->
⟨egg⟩ ⟪test_account⟫ I don't really like Упростить, it's not […] ⮪ Makes sense; how do you like SelfAnnexatingDivinity’s Убрать лишнее?
<queqiao->
⟨egg⟩ Uh sorry 'Скрыть лишнее'
<queqiao->
⟨SelfAnnexatingDivinity⟩ ⟪test_account⟫ Очистить is too strong but it's clear […] ⮪ Erase Jupiter
<queqiao->
Subject the Earth to an asteroid shower
<queqiao->
⟨🇺🇦 Katniss 🇺🇦⟩ ⟪egg⟫ Except for the celestial strings. ⮪ what does it say? 🤔
<queqiao->
⟨egg⟩ Earth Moon Lagrange points
<queqiao->
⟨Basila⟩ egg "скрыть лишнее" is most suitable variant. it has exactly the meaning that is needed and does not create misunderstandings.
<queqiao->
⟨Auer⟩ accidentally I load my save without principia (I download a bad copy trying to update it) should I be worried (I got lots of things going everywhere on long travels
<queqiao->
⟨Auer⟩ * worried?
<queqiao->
⟨Auer⟩ * travels)
<queqiao->
⟨official_sweetbabyrays⟩ Trying to use PVG for a lunar transfer from Baikanur but cant seem to select the moon as a target. It's been a second since I last used principia, how do you select a celestial body as a target again?
<queqiao->
⟨Basila⟩ official_sweetbabyrays are you using Principia?
<queqiao->
⟨official_sweetbabyrays⟩ Yes! when I click on the moon it just brings my camera over to it, doesn't bring up the context menu
<queqiao->
⟨test_account⟩ Just don't use it, it will not work
<queqiao->
⟨test_account⟩ You don't go to the moon by selecting it as a target for PVG
<queqiao->
⟨egg⟩ At least not from Байконур. Or the Cape, for that matter.
<queqiao->
⟨egg⟩ Байқоңыр? I guess Baiqoñyr now, with the new orthography…
<queqiao->
⟨test_account⟩ No, the launch site itself is Russian territory
<queqiao->
⟨test_account⟩ it's legally not part of Kazakhstan
<queqiao->
⟨test_account⟩ at least, until 2050 it seems (it's leased)
<queqiao->
⟨Basila⟩ Байқоңыр in Kazakh, Байконур in Russian. we don't even have this strange k in russian alphabet
<queqiao->
⟨egg⟩ Yeah, but there are plants for a switch to Latin for Kazakh, so Байқоңыр would become Baiqoñyr.
<queqiao->
⟨Basila⟩ bad seed are these plant from
<queqiao->
⟨egg⟩ ah, it took me a while to figure out why the 🪴 reaction :-p
<queqiao->
⟨Al₂Me₆⟩ You Frenchmen with your silent letters 😆
<queqiao->
⟨egg⟩ œufs [ø]
<queqiao->
⟨egg⟩ Alright so before we translate it into Russian, we should nail down that reference frame description. (Arguably it would have been smart to do so before translating to Chinese and French…)
<queqiao->
⟨egg⟩ For the orbit frame we have:
<queqiao->
> The centre of <<A:1>> is fixed.
<queqiao->
> The plane of its orbit around <<A:3>> is horizontal.
<queqiao->
> The reference frame rotates with the orbit, fixing the direction of <<A:3>>.Currently for the frame of the Lagrange points we have, in the simple (single-secondary) case:
<queqiao->
⟨official_sweetbabyrays⟩ ⟪Basila⟫ 2023-05-14_01-24-47.jpg ⮪ My Principia menu doesn't have that button? And yes, I've checked I have the most recent version
<queqiao->
⟨Al₂Me₆⟩ Are you playing RP-1? If so you need some certain number of tracking station and admin center upgrades.
<queqiao->
⟨egg⟩ ⟪official_sweetbabyrays⟫ My Principia menu doesn't have that […] ⮪ > If playing in career, you will need to have upgraded your Tracking Station to the appropriate level.But also note test_account’s comment, you don’t want to do that anyway.
<queqiao->
⟨official_sweetbabyrays⟩ But math and thinking is hard 😭 I just want the computer to do it for me haha
<queqiao->
⟨egg⟩ (See the most recent pinned message, you cannot launch into the plane of the moon from up there.)
<queqiao->
⟨official_sweetbabyrays⟩ ⟪egg⟫ (See the most recent pinned message, […] ⮪ got it, going to Cape Canaveral for a bit than
<queqiao->
⟨egg⟩ ⟪official_sweetbabyrays⟫ got it, going to Cape Canaveral for a […] ⮪ Still too far North.
<queqiao->
⟨egg⟩ Go to Kourou.
<queqiao->
⟨egg⟩ Or to Sriharikota.
<queqiao->
⟨official_sweetbabyrays⟩ I don't understand, we've literally landed people on the moon from cape
<queqiao->
⟨egg⟩ Yes, but they did not launch into the plane of the Moon.
<queqiao->
⟨official_sweetbabyrays⟩ Ohhhhh right yes I see how im getting confused
<queqiao->
⟨test_account⟩ ⟪official_sweetbabyrays⟫ But math and thinking is hard 😭 I just […] ⮪ math and thinking is done by the mod Lunar Transfer Planner
<queqiao->
⟨test_account⟩ you just launch from baikonur or anywhere else when it tells you
<queqiao->
⟨test_account⟩ +to the east
<queqiao->
⟨official_sweetbabyrays⟩ ⟪test_account⟫ you just launch to the east from […] ⮪ Haven't heard of this mod but just a quick Google seems like it's going to be a serious headache reliever! Thanks for the rec
<queqiao->
⟨egg⟩ Or to Sriharikota. ⮪ Since this place needs more scripts, శ్రీహరికోట, I guess.
<queqiao->
⟨egg⟩ For the orbit frame we have: > The […] ⮪ Al₂Me₆ So, what do you think about this one?
<queqiao->
⟨Basila⟩ egg this is ГОСТ font, heavily used for drawing. my nightmare when i was student. but it is nice looking, i agree
<queqiao->
⟨egg⟩ I am always amused at how italics introduce some really unexpected confusables between Cyrillic and Latin,
<queqiao->
with _т_=т looking like _m_ and _и_=и looking like _u_
<queqiao->
⟨Basila⟩ Russian cursive is cursed. i'm so glad our doctors do not write prescriptions manually anymore. i have a couple of joint decoding with a pharmacist in a pharmacy.
<queqiao->
⟨Al₂Me₆⟩ ⟪egg⟫ Al₂Me₆ (@_discord_721843413456257114:mat[…] ⮪ Looks good. But parallelism would probably dictate
<queqiao->
> The reference frame rotates with the orbit to keep the <<nom:3>>–<<nom:1>> line fixed and pulsates to keep the <<nom:3>>–<<nom:1>> distance constant.
<queqiao->
⟨egg⟩ Make sense.
<queqiao->
⟨egg⟩ Now I guess you get to change it five times in zh.cfg and celestial_strings.cfg