raptop changed the topic of #KSPOfficial to: Kerbal Space Program official channel | Rules: http://tinyurl.com/KSP-Rules | Δv maps: https://i.imgur.com/CHVnEeE.png https://i.imgur.com/gBoLsSt.png | KSP 2 Early Access Feb 24 https://tinyurl.com/ksp2earlyaccess | Official KSP Discord https://tinyurl.com/KSPDiscord | <packbart> at least Kerbin has fixed seasons. they stay where they are and don't move about the planet
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<XXCoder> oh man'
<XXCoder> youre dangerous in many ways
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<X> Yeah there were zero maneuver planner outcomes that would put me in munar orbit. I had to do it the old fashioned way.
<raptop> F
<raptop> !mission add You decide to visit Debdeb using SRBs.
<LunchBot> Added mission: You decide to visit Debdeb using SRBs.
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<Funkenstein> ;mission add You remember that H.P. Lovecraft's characters have Boston accents.
<LunchBot> Added mission: You remember that H.P. Lovecraft's characters have Boston accents.
<Funkenstein> ;outcome add This really rocks Newton's cradle.
<LunchBot> Added outcome: This really rocks Newton's cradle.
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<X> Well. My ship explodes on the pad. That’s a good start.
<Izzy> In a controlled or uncontrolled manner?
<Izzy> It's an important difference.
<X> When you're trying to find the sun.... and it's hiding. https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/JWPawfM6/image.png
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<Althego> the sun is warming up?
<SporkWitch> just took the new iteration of my plane under the bridge ^^ https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1076923690387787859/1079635878479142942/image.png
<Althego> 4 engines
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* raptop looks at the scrollback
<raptop> Ah, yes, the Horror at Dunkin Donuts
<Althego> hehe, 4 reminds me.... THERE ARE FOUR ENGINES! (picard)
<raptop> hmm
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<Althego> loks cool
<raptop> extra hot staging
<Althego> upcoming manned launch https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WY5R_0Qf_WM
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<raptop> ...I think you cursed it
<Althego> heh
<Althego> yes it seems not launching toady
<Althego> chat is full of f
<raptop> F is great, because you can use it as both a joke and legit conveying condolences
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<NeckoGecko> So... Why KSP 2 have SO bad performance? I mean - how can it be? KSP1 runs pretty well on +- old PC with big partcount (150+) crafts, engine is outdated. KSP2 haqve refreshed engine, but 40 parted craft makes it suffer
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<SporkWitch> "why can't new game with crazy particle effects, stupid-high polygon counts, and higher res textures run on 10 year old hardware?" you mean? It's a self-answering question. As to why it does have performance issues on hardware that meets spec, when run at settings that meet spec: mostly bugs, partly in-progress optimisation. We've been doing a hardware performance survey of the community, and
<SporkWitch> it actually runs quite well, if you actually meet spec and run settings appropriate for your hardware. Even stuff below minimum runs acceptably if you drop to 720p. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1x3N0bjxx6TGFx3pn5kuVW4lOOFNerSn22yHsbzGB60c/edit#gid=0
<NeckoGecko> so it is okay to have 8-15 fps on 15-20 parts craft on i7 8700K 4.8 GHz, RTX-2080, 16GB ddr4?
<Althego> no
<Mat2ch> NeckoGecko: Nobody knows, we can only speculate, but the more bugs I see, the more I'm sure that the developers are not up to the task.
<Althego> you cant even say it is a bad console port
<X> Wait what's the minimum specs for KSP2?
<X> I didn't even look
<Althego> there was an official minimum and required spec posted. somewhere
<X> I've been playing on a 12650H and a 3070 mobile
<X> I'll try it on my 10 year old cpu next and see how that goes.
<Mat2ch> Interesting. My Vega 56 is on par with the 5600 XT. So I have at least the minimum. Which is still sad if you look at games like GTA5, which is 10 years old, and how detailed the whole city there is.
<X> Well there's definitely some weird graphics stuff going on with KSP2.
<X> I think they really like...detailed the textures of the ships and stuff.
<X> How much can they actually optimize all this stuff? Or are they just going to be like...well 5 years from now when we leave early access, these specs will be nothing.
<Mat2ch> the main problem seems to be the physics engine.
<X> Do we know if the physics is running off the CPU or the gpu?
<Mat2ch> Because some volumetric clouds shouldn't be a problem. And higher quality textures only use more VRAM, but not that much computation time.
<Mat2ch> Most likely on the CPU.
<Mat2ch> The problem with GPUs is that they are only really fast with floats. But KSP uses doubles iirc to cover the distances better.
<Mat2ch> I still think it would be better to switch to ints, but nobody asks me (a professional and studied computer scientist). Story of my life is: Nobody is listening to me and all are sad. But they could be listening to me and be sad.
<X> They probably just use whatever came in the software they licensed.
<Mat2ch> And that's a problem. KSP needs a very well refined physics engine, something thought out be professionals.
<Mat2ch> But I'm getting old and tired of this. Everytime My parents asked me about something technical, I gave them an answer what to do/buy
<Althego> i doubt they can use the basic physics in the engine
<Althego> just as with ksp1 there were a lot of things added to it to make it possible
<Mat2ch> *Everytime my parents ask me about something technical, I give them an answer what to do/buy and they buy something completely different and have problems with it.
<Althego> i think there was even some dev blog about twhat they did
<X> Ah. I just buy stuff and bill my parents at this point.
<Althego> lol
<Mat2ch> X: Do you have siblings?
<X> Nope.
<Mat2ch> Because my siblings are the people talking my parents into buying the broken stuff.
<Mat2ch> And no, technology is not their profession.
<Althego> hehe
<Althego> then let them support it
<Mat2ch> yeah, I will now.
<Mat2ch> Best part is: I'm the one living nearby.
<X> Maybe your support can be "oh, that product is defective, get this instead"
<Mat2ch> Nah, I will just tell them from now on: Ask X or Y.
<Mat2ch> And then they have to suffer until they can come.
<Mat2ch> They are visiting my parents maybe 5-10 times a year
<X> Assuming they can fix it.
<Mat2ch> I don't think they will learn, but at least it's not my problem anymore.
<X> I think the best thing I ever did was convince my parents to jump on the smart home bandwagon. Now that my dad's having mobility problems, he can like intercom from anywhere and turn on all the lights on and off without getting up, and adjust the heat.
<Mat2ch> well, my father has to stand up for that still. Which is good. He should get some exercise.
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<Guest76689> Hey could someone here help me trouble shoot a problem im having with mirror symmetry. i've looked all over and can't find an answer https://imgur.com/QVczuK3
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<Mat2ch> should've stayed a bit longer. Funny bug. Probably mod related.
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* darsie explored which graphics card to buy.
<darsie> nvidia 1060 - 1660 Super
<darsie> used
<darsie> AMD cards have less speed/power.
<darsie> ;mission add Your rocket explodes again and you rebuild it from scratch. That is, from photons.
<LunchBot> Added mission: Your rocket explodes again and you rebuild it from scratch. That is, from photons.
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<X> Apparently you need a 3080 to play ksp2
<XXCoder> ;mission
<LunchBot> You try to go to orbit with nothing but solid rockets. This is due to a tiny fluctuation in the velociraptor.
<XXCoder> yeah it somehow affected my brain lol
<darsie> RTX 2060 has 14,072 passmark points. 1660 Super has 12,798, so it would run and specs will get more relaxed later.
<darsie> But I'm not buying the game and the card now, maybe I'll pick something else later.
<darsie> Can get a used 1660 Super for 140 EUR. 1060 start at 60 EUR.
<darsie> 1060 has 10,067 points.
<darsie> G3D Mark
<X> What about a 1660 ti?
<darsie> 12,917
<X> I meant cost-wise
<X> In the US at least, you can pick up a used one on newegg cheaper than a 1660s.
<X> The 1660s has better memory than the 1660 ti, but the 1660ti has more processors.
<darsie> Ahh, there's an 1660 TI OC 6GB for 130 EUR
<darsie> another one for 140 EUR
<darsie> Ti has 120 W, Super has 125 W.
<darsie> I have a 320 W PS.
<darsie> Had to solder the graphics card power cord because the solder holes for that were unpopulated.
<packbart> hm. my 2080 Super seems to be around 500€, still
<X> Do you have an unusual power supply requirement?
<darsie> No. 120 W for the card, i7-3770, 16 GB
<X> Well, in the US EVGA and corsair 450W and 500W power supplies will go on sale for about 25-30 USD.
<X> If you have a power issue, you may be able to upgrade cheaply if you keep your eye out
<darsie> 6 pin 12 V mainboard power connector: http://0x0.st/HzsN.JPG
<darsie> "below" the RAM
<darsie> oops :)
<darsie> That's teh dust after blowing into the PC :)
<darsie> that\
<darsie> http://0x0.st/Hzsb.JPG power su.pply
<X> is there still a 4pin cpu connector?
<darsie> yes
<X> Ah, so you do have an unusual power supply requirement lol
<darsie> Unusual power, yeah.
<darsie> No 5 V, no 3.3 V
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<X> I think the 1050 was the last motherboard only powered graphics card I remember.
<darsie> Now I have a GTX 750 with 3,348 G3D Mark and 55 W.
<X> I forgot all the correct terminology.
<darsie> IIRC I saw a higher card that allegedly didn't need a cord.
<NeckoGecko> (p.q)
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<darsie> Why scrub?
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<FLHerne> TEA/B loading problem
<darsie> thx
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<darsie> Can't launch without ignition ...
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<TheKosmonaut> Loading up ksp 2 for the first time
<TheKosmonaut> Let my live blogging and rage begin
<TheKosmonaut> 1) no more launchers. Pls. Just. stop.
<Althego> hehe
<TheKosmonaut> First: open settings
<TheKosmonaut> No FOV slider, 0/10 total biscuit wouldn’t recommend
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<sandbox> F
<TheKosmonaut> Turn off the VO guide
<TheKosmonaut> Don’t need that
<TheKosmonaut> Docking tolerance… hmm
<TheKosmonaut> All the way down
<Althego> should be one click setting for expert mode
<TheKosmonaut> Let’s see
<TheKosmonaut> I can hear my computer spinning up
<TheKosmonaut> KSC: ~8fps
<TheKosmonaut> Great
<Althego> hehe
<TheKosmonaut> Is there no thrust limiter on the Hammer?
<Althego> unlimited hammer works! :)
<TheKosmonaut> This is pretty bad.
<TheKosmonaut> Some very weird latency in controls
<TheKosmonaut> Time warp did nothing until I pressed one of my roll buttons, then all of the commands caught up
<TheKosmonaut> Same thing happened with F2 when I tried to hide the UI
<TheKosmonaut> Is it me, or are the contrails just static? As in, I have them on my fins and as I roll the rocket, the trails remains as a straight line and just follows my fins
<TheKosmonaut> Rather than spiraling
<TheKosmonaut> Huh. Does time remain persistent in VAB?
<TheKosmonaut> Does that mean the universe is still running while I am constructing craft
<Althego> that would be annoying
<TheKosmonaut> UT at 7 min, MET at 2
<TheKosmonaut> I spent about a few minutes in VAB
<Althego> cant you pause?
<TheKosmonaut> Aaaand game crash
<Althego> hehe
<Althego> that paused for good :9
<TheKosmonaut> can’t have your botched capsule crash into the ocean before you Build a rescue vessel if you just kill the game
* TheKosmonaut taps head
<Althego> hehe
* TheKosmonaut clicks extras
<TheKosmonaut> Credits, EULA, Privacy Policy, ToS
<TheKosmonaut> Back in my day, extras meant cool things like Behind The Scenes, little videos, features etc
<Althego> they could bundle a debugger for free :)
<FLHerne> ;outcome add Sbe fbzr ernfba, nyy gur perj ercbegf ner frag onpx va ebg13.
<LunchBot> Added outcome: Sbe fbzr ernfba, nyy gur perj ercbegf ner frag onpx va ebg13.
<Althego> lol
<TheKosmonaut> Not feeling it so far
<Althego> is this rot13?
<TheKosmonaut> No. This is Sparta.
<FLHerne> This is Staffordshire, you must have misheard
<FLHerne> Althego: the "ebg13" at the end is a bit of a hint :p
<Althego> similar pet shops ltd or something
<Mat2ch> !mission You want to break free.
<LunchBot> No mission found matching "You want to break free.".
<Mat2ch> !mission add You want to break free.
<LunchBot> Added mission: You want to break free.
<Mat2ch> !mission
<LunchBot> You hire thousands of high-stupidity kerbonauts. You're barred from further flights due to government legislation imposed by a competing space program.
<Althego> hehe
<FLHerne> that legislation sounds justified honestly
<Mat2ch> Oh come on
<TheKosmonaut> How do you change to an SPH style workspace
<Althego> yes, stupid pilots can cause a lot of accidents
<TheKosmonaut> I clicked it
<Mat2ch> they just don't know how to throw a party.
<TheKosmonaut> And when I select my pod, it reverts back to VAB or tie ration
<TheKosmonaut> Orientation
<packbart> The workaround seems to be placing a part far back in the VAB
<TheKosmonaut> Back in my day
<TheKosmonaut> We had only the VAB
<TheKosmonaut> and you had to launch planes like a rocket
<Althego> you can just build in the vab and then rotate 90 deg
<packbart> we're back in the day. the SPH is no more
<packbart> and you can launch your rockets from the jetty
<TheKosmonaut> ~30% CPU usage
<TheKosmonaut> 14gb ram? Jeebus
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<packbart> well, KSP 1 isn't any better in that regard, tbh
<packbart> unless with the memory leak fixes from the Community Fixes mod
<Mat2ch> I approve the memory leak fixes from the community fixes mod. Must have.
<TheKosmonaut> Also, the continent disappears above 20km
<TheKosmonaut> On my system at least
<Althego> cloaking
<TheKosmonaut> Also, no shielded docking port?
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<packbart> lots of parts still missing
<TheKosmonaut> The original chute still that ugly part too
<TheKosmonaut> Always hated it
<TheKosmonaut> Never sits flush along the edges
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<packbart> well, Mr. ReStock will have to go over them once more
<TheKosmonaut> Most of the parts are quite nice
<TheKosmonaut> And the game does look brilliant for the most part
<TheKosmonaut> Tbh, if Tlou was out now I’d have refunded this and gone for that. But I also love ksp and I kind of have an inkling of an understanding as to why they’re releasing it now, albeit in early access.
<packbart> tbh, I expect that it takes 1 to 3 years until release. the prototype looks ok, now they need to make it into a game
<packbart> I paid my part for the popularity ranking
<TheKosmonaut> I just think, if cash flow is a problem: why are you shooting yourself in the foot by 1) making it so prohibitively expensive in terms of performance? And 2) $50 is a big ask for a game in this state
<TheKosmonaut> Even if the game is optimized, you’ve set min spec rather high
<TheKosmonaut> And afaik you don’t / can’t change min spec after the fact
<packbart> I believe 1) is a matter of compiling the game in the release build. it seems to have all debug options on and no compiler optimizations
<packbart> linuxgurugamer is going over KSP 2 with Visual Studio tomorrow. although he's not going to decompile anything, just looking at the public structures available
<packbart> hist first mod is just a join reinforcement
<packbart> the noodle rockets are back in force
<TheKosmonaut> I’m quite pessimistic about multiplayer
<packbart> at least they did consider it from the start
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<Guest23786> Is there really people there?
<packbart> yes
<Guest23786> nice
<packbart> at least I pretend to be "people"
<Guest23786> lol
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<packbart> there are no official community manager or devs around here, though
<SporkWitch> i don't think they're worried about the IRC crowd not buying the new game as soon as we could get hardware for it / it was in a state we were ready to play lol
<Mat2ch> Guest23786 has already left. Wow
<packbart> I ignore joins/quits here. too much noise ;)
<SporkWitch> consider a non-trivial number of new joins are trolls; not enough here to make it worth their time, discord's a bigger target
<Mat2ch> hrm. They shouldn't have added all the anomalies in the EarlyAccess build. Now they will be chewed up until release and there's no point in finding them yourself, because somebody has already made a video about it.
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<packbart> Mat2ch: apparently the game sometimes launches an anomaly instead of your ship :)
<Althego> lol
<sandbox> that's certainly an anomaly
<raptop> [DATA SCRUBBED]
<SporkWitch> clearly we need to call an SCP containment team
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<Mat2ch> packbart: what
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<Guest08378> hi
<sandbox> hello
<umaxtu> yo yo yo
<raptop> lo
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<packbart> alright, enough of the KSP forum for today
<packbart> darsie: the Nyan cats you saw where shown because it was International Cat Day, apparently
<packbart> you'll see them again on April 1st or if something breaks
<packbart> hm. International Cat Day is in August, though.
<darsie> ah
<raptop> February 22nd is just cat day in Japan
<packbart> or 17th Feb
<packbart> On 17 February, Europe dedicates a day to these extraordinary felines, World Cat Day
<packbart> The International Fund for Animal Welfare started celebrating August 8 as the International Cats Day in 2002
<darsie> Does having cats contribute to animal welfare?
<packbart> don't know, I more a dog person
<packbart> those animals should just get a job!1
<darsie> I'm more a cat person, but we don't have a cat now. We had issues with cats peeing in my open clothes cupboard. No cups were involved in this cupboard.
<darsie> WTH do you call this piece of furniture?
<Althego> next possible launch https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oe4S-q_gQaU
<Mat2ch> packbart: what's happening in the forum?
<packbart> darsie: wardrobe?
<packbart> Mat2ch: I ignored most of the KSP 2 discussions and looked at some KSP 1 log files to help diagnosing problems with modded installations :)
<packbart> yeah, I'd call that a wardrobe
<darsie> ok
<raptop> likewise
<darsie> mhm
<packbart> "An open wardrobe lets you show off your clothes and shoes."
<darsie> I had to aggressively chase them out of my room to keep them out.
<darsie> "Hanging your clothes in the air keeps them fresher for longer, so you cut down on unnecessary laundry." Do you wash clothes when they have been in a closed wardrobe for a month? :)
<Althego> lol
<Althego> they want to sell this to you really badly
<darsie> yeah :)
<raptop> o_O
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<packbart> When you return to another KSP save after a few months, look at the tracking station and ask yourself "What's all this stuff?"
<packbart> better check the open contracts
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<raptop> to do: start a rumor that Val steals other kerbals organs because hers keep on getting damaged in all those crashes
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<darsie> t-20s
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<FLHerne> ;outcome add Nunn Kerman, having had no training on what to do in the event of a fire, leaves it to go and look for a potato to throw out of the window.
<LunchBot> Added outcome: Nunn Kerman, having had no training on what to do in the event of a fire, leaves it to go and look for a potato to throw out of the window.
<raptop> is that a reference to a specific incident?
<FLHerne> yes
<raptop> ...oh, it is
<FLHerne> it makes even less sense in space
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