Althego changed the topic of #KSPOfficial to: Kerbal Space Program official channel | versions: KSP1 1.12.2 bit.ly/ksp112update | Rules: tinyurl.com/KSP-Rules | "modcall" to call ops | Δv maps: https://i.imgur.com/CHVnEeE.png https://i.imgur.com/gBoLsSt.png | Do not visit the hoverliths, for they carry a terrible curse.
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<JVFoxy> ok.. that was weird.. milestones automatically got deleted
<JVFoxy> and.. isn't first time you do crew transfers in orbit considered a milestone or did that get removed in 1.12.2?
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<JVFoxy> oh ... wait.. maybe cuz I did a rescue it considered that as a crew transfer
<raptop> oops
<JVFoxy> well.. doesn't help game decided to wipe my entire milestones list. :(
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<Althego> what, no guh?
<raptop> Is this sorta like how Ina went from "Ina! Ina! Ina!" to "Wah!"
<JVFoxy> weee?
<raptop> possibly
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<Althego> of course it is
<Althego> although i would do the rentry with high angle of attack
<Izaya> My pilot only knows prograde and retrograde so using the trajectory mod set to 0° from prograde
<Izaya> once they get better at stuff, I'll switch to a higher AoA return trajectory because it won't take half an hour.
<Izaya> Do you like my cute little spaceplane, by the way?
<Izaya> 10 parts, 5 tonnes
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<Izaya> Landed it safely \o/
<darsie> Izaya: Nice. My planes often have the swept wing tips protuding forward for good CoL.
<Izaya> I'm terrible at plane design so I'm copying the Spiral and Hermes
<darsie> I try to make fuel depletion not cause CoM shift.
<Althego> for planes?
<Althego> i usually do what skylon does, move the engines to the center of the plane. then the remaining long part is mostly tanks
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<darsie> yes
<darsie> what?
<Althego> usually the problem is that the engines are at the back. and the fuel balances. as the fuel is used up com moves. but if you move the engines near the com, that com movement is lot less
<Althego> they decided to put them on the wingtips, knowing ksp i usually keep them close to the body
<darsie> ok
<Mat2ch> Althego: oh, I always wondered how they dealt with this.
<Mat2ch> yeah, the wings are fragile.
<Althego> for visuals i sometimes put the engines on the body and offset them further out
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<Izaya> "Spiral"
<Izaya> :D
<Izaya> Will a radiator panel on the upper side of my plane help with re-entry heating?
<Althego> how is the rule? max 2 items away?
<Althego> or 1?
<Althego> it also needs to be on
<Althego> it already helps you more if it on the bottom side
<Izaya> I don't have any radiators on my plane presently, but re-entering the first time, the cockpit was getting toasty.
<Althego> as usual
<Althego> especially the plain airplane cockpit
<Althego> the high angle of attack helps in that
<Izaya> Ended up pulling up to avoid killing the pilot, landed in the desert.
<darsie> I used 90 deg AoA with my anomaly glider for reentry. https://i.postimg.cc/92B60Fpw/screenshot303.png
<darsie> The puny aluminium fins survived.
<NGC3982> so not so puny eh
<darsie> 600 K melting point or so.
<darsie> failure temperature
<darsie> On other rockets I let them explode on ascent.
<Althego> yes that is a nice feature, you can easily burn them off for higher delta v
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<Althego> hehe, this happened years ago, i didnt know about it. elon had a senate hearing (much like zuck) about one of the early falcon 9 launches where the secondary payload didnt make into the correct orbit because of engine failure. to one of the questions he answered: by ula's definition of success, that mission was perfect
<raptop> If you need to burn fins off of a lower stage for sufficient Δv, I feel like you have bigger problems
<Izaya> Successful landing at the island airfield :D
<Izaya> (After orbiting and deorbiting)
<raptop> Does that count as overshooting KSC? >_>
<raptop> Also, nice, night landing
<Izaya> I flew over KSC on the way back >.>
<Izaya> It was intentional, I swear.
<raptop> heh
<Althego> hehe
<Althego> but yes, nice landing anyway
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<Althego> hehe yagoo butler for princess ollie
<raptop> nice
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<JVFoxy> which mod gives juno's what looks like after burners?
<Izaya> Probably RealPlume
<JVFoxy> Lights on the crew cabin indicates crew profession?
<JVFoxy> I see a blue and green over each seat
<Izaya> yup
<JVFoxy> I just barely recall a mod review about it.. from years back
<Izaya> They're from that indica- yeah
<JVFoxy> simple yet effective feature
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<KerbalF> Someone here ?
<raptop> no
<raptop> no one is here
<KerbalF> K
<raptop> we were all killed by boosters found lying by the side of the road
<KerbalF> Hmmm ... i just started ksp and stuck in training mission 4. There is no LV45T in the inventory i can attach - bug or am i too stupid ?
<raptop> It's possible that it's a bug
* raptop waits for KSP to load up to check
<KerbalF> Its mission 5
<raptop> advanced construction?
<KerbalF> yes
<KerbalF> i should add a lv-45t but only got a lv-909 and rt-10
<raptop> yeah, this is looking like a bug
<Althego> how big is the possibility of another bugfix release?
<KerbalF> Haha ... good one
<JVFoxy> they'll probably do it but it won't be for a long while
<raptop> I'd assume there's a decent chance, and this is at least something that'd be easy
<Althego> those training missions are a nice addition, but you dont actually need to do them
<raptop> anyway, I guess that means we advocate jumping into science mode?
<JVFoxy> was a comment they made, while they did move onto KSP2, they will do the occasional fix/update here and there.
<KerbalF> i bought the game 2014 but now i want to "play" it with the kids. Just wonder, no one ever mentioned it
<JVFoxy> I haven't done the training missions myself. Although, if I did see that 'bug', I probably go out of my way to fix it. Probably just a script error
<raptop> yeah, I can replicate the bug and I bet JVFoxy is right
<Althego> i remember when those training missions were release i played a few and they worked. but that was a long time ago
<JVFoxy> I remember playing one of the old Flightsimulators from MS. Someone did a 737 model for it. I noticed it was acting weird when I shutdown one of the engines. Turns out, the location for the thrust source had the wrong sign on the vertical position
<KerbalF> But it is quite frustrating when you want to "learn" it from 0 and you cant finish even the trainig
<JVFoxy> so instead of being below the wing, it was above it, on the one side.
<JVFoxy> if i wasn't so out of it and had looked into how the training missions worked, I'd probably whip up a fix on the spot for you. Update a file
<Althego> didnt they change something with the lv-t45 engine in 1.12?
<Althego> maybe it is broken because of that
<raptop> ...poking around the GameData folder, I can't find anything about training
<raptop> Althego: !
<JVFoxy> 1.12.2 I know it was a model change.. it got a bit of a new look, same with the reliant
<raptop> That would be it
<raptop> Yeah, revamped look
<JVFoxy> maybe someone missed a 'serial number'?
<JVFoxy> revamped model have a different coded name?
<raptop> hrm, there are 2 LV-T45s if I'm reading the files correctly
<JVFoxy> oh fun.. conflicts
<Althego> probably the script refers to the old model or something
<Althego> yes, usually they leave in the old one for a while
<Althego> so that previous saves work
<JVFoxy> they could have kept the old one, kind of like what they did with the Mk3 crew pod when it got an overhaul.
<Althego> but the old one is not visible in the editor
<Althego> and i think that is what happened
<JVFoxy> it was in teh game, but you couldn't see it, only when you loaded older models of craft it would show
<raptop> Yeah, the old one has TechHidden = true, and the new one is liquidEngine2_v2 (instead of liquidEngine2)
<raptop> hrm
<JVFoxy> script is probably calling for the old LV-T45, but cuz of the revamp, maybe someone flagged the new one as invisible?
<JVFoxy> ah..
<JVFoxy> so now question is, flip the hidden flag or update the training script to look for the V2?
<JVFoxy> flipping then hidden flag though, you'd end up with models of both the engines in-game..
<raptop> I never found the training script =\
<JVFoxy> mission 5?
<KerbalF> Yepp
<JVFoxy> k.. let me look
<JVFoxy> lol.. all the parts that are defunct now in its own folder.. interesting
<raptop> note that old LV-T45 is not in zDeprecated >_>
<JVFoxy> fun
<JVFoxy> have to load the game... this'll take a bit
<raptop> weird, flipping the hidden flag to false didn't fix it
<Althego> hehe
<Althego> my guess the scripts forthese are essentially code and are hidden in some resource file
<raptop> stabbity
<raptop> ...deleting the line also didn't work
<JVFoxy> what is the actual training mission named?
<raptop> Advanced Construction
<JVFoxy> ok
<JVFoxy> huh.. it starts you in the VAB.. interesting
<JVFoxy> ah here go..
<raptop> yeah, LV-909, RT-10, no LV-T45
<JVFoxy> ksp saves training
<raptop> hm
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<JVFoxy> oh.. huh, its just a persistent save file sorta thing..
<JVFoxy> was hoping it have something like 'unlocked' parts listed
<KerbalF> not in this mission
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<JVFoxy> ok.. my understanding is, its looking for a mission module: TutorialEditorAdvanced
<JVFoxy> / the name of the ScenarioModule class to spawn
<JVFoxy> name = TutorialEditorAdvanced
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<raptop> oh, putting training under saves confused me
<raptop> that's a silly location
<KerbalF> Thank you guys, i will try to load a predefined rocket with a lv-45t and try the mission again .... Mabe there are more "bugs" in later training missions also
<JVFoxy> ya, sorry, looks like its something buried in the game itself. The script calls for a bit of code that could be anywhere further down. A lot of files are just numbered and in unity format
<JVFoxy> sorry
<KerbalF> np, thank you for your time
<JVFoxy> its likely someone didn't get the memo when it came to the engine revamp and didn't realize there was now a new model being used. Squad did say they'll do minor fixes if/when needed
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<JVFoxy> next question is: did it make it into bug tracker?
<JVFoxy> looks like someone posted it an hour ago
<JVFoxy> someone by name of Kerbal Fronk. I can't view.. needs log-in.
<KerbalF> Its me
<JVFoxy> oh.. I see the resemblance now ;)
<KerbalF> ;.)
<JVFoxy> your game is fine.. its just someone doing coding, forgot to update the training script internally to look for the new engine. At least from what my understanding is.
<raptop> ^
<JVFoxy> Raptop I know you said you switched the hidden flat, there could also be the issue the engine files got shoved somewhere the script isn't looking
<JVFoxy> flat->flag
<JVFoxy> there is a version that is in the defunct folder but.. that isn't it?
<JVFoxy> oh wait.. its not in there actually..
<raptop> I didn't see it in the deprecated folder, and was messing with the "extra" one in GameData/Squad/Parts/Engine/
<JVFoxy> looks like the Reliant didn't get placed there either
<raptop> yeah
<JVFoxy> oh wait..
<JVFoxy> looks like they left the originals in the folder for the model code. new versions just have a revamped texture or something
<JVFoxy> ugh.. this file system is a mess
<raptop> technical debt(tm)
<darsie> Who complained that electric motors are too heavy for Duna?
<darsie> Was it a different channel?
<JVFoxy> you figured they'd use the same naming conventions between two similar parts... nope. One the engine model code, the updated version they used the actual engine name for some of the files instead..
<raptop> darsie: ...I don't recall
<raptop> Does this mean that you have a helicopter on Duna?
<JVFoxy> so ugh.. I don't know. some cris-crossing of stuff... suspect someone didn't do a proper 'finalize and cleanup'
<JVFoxy> anyways, sorry, need a mental break
<darsie> raptop: I don'.t
<KerbalF> Anyway ... Thx for all. Bye
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<darsie> I had a RW with wings on Duna.
<JVFoxy> RW with wings... RW as in rotowing or..?
<JVFoxy> lol, sorry just feeling a little out of sorts still
<darsie> Reaction wheel
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<JVFoxy> right.. derp
<JVFoxy> spin tops :)
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* darsie rescued a Kerbal from the surface of The Mun. Flyover within 2.2 km, switch over, jetpack to orbit, picked up by rocket, splashdown on Kerbin.