<JVFoxy>
delta v map only gives value for 14km orbit.. but my station is 260 or so
<SporkWitch>
ah, not sure. consider that 800 can be enough for a return to kerbin, so maybe? don't forget RCS, as well, can sometimes make the difference
<JVFoxy>
oh I know RCS.. although it would take some time since they the smaller ports
<JVFoxy>
I've found the larger quads tend to be a little too much power for starter stuff
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<JVFoxy>
nope.. 800 dv isn't enough, having to use up most of my rcs to get boost orbit a bit
<JVFoxy>
this may end up turning into a test run..
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<JVFoxy>
although.. when i came out of unpause earlier. my 'land on mun' contract reverted to 'uncompleted', despite me actually sitting on the Mun itself
<JVFoxy>
I actually saw the check box 'untick itself'. :\
<JVFoxy>
oh. n/m.. it actually completed in the other part.. phew
<JVFoxy>
ok I guess this turning into an actual mission.. time to go home
<JVFoxy>
makes me wonder though: how low did the fuel in the tanks get during actual real life missions
<JVFoxy>
well other than the 11 landing.. since people seem to make that such a big deal
<Izaya>
I don't remember any of the others eating into the safety margins, but I could be wrong
<JVFoxy>
oh uh.. whoops, so I landed, but science got left behind in lander can. :\
<JVFoxy>
I thought crew carried it with them when they transffered ships..
<JVFoxy>
fortunately I could just send out a robotic mission to the station and get it..
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<Izaya>
Nope, unless you tell them to take the science it's kept in the pod
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<devBlaze>
Hello?
<Althego>
hi
<devBlaze>
I am new to KSP, this entire community and rocket science in general.
<devBlaze>
I am having some issues with Kerbal Space Program tutorials in the most recent version of the game - they're simply broken. Is there any sort of fix to this that anyone knows?
<raptop>
yes, do you mean the missing LV-T45?
<devBlaze>
Additionally, I have a weird bug where I press space at the launch pad to ignite and take off the pad, but my engines just make a "woosh" sound and do nothing.
<devBlaze>
Yes, I am talking about the missing lv-t45.
<Althego>
that bug was never fixed unfortunately
<devBlaze>
Are there any methods I can use to obtain that engine to complete the tutorial?
<raptop>
that second one probably isn't a bug, I can think of a few things: raising the throttle (shift, or z to max it out), checking that your engines have all the relevant propellants (fuel+oxidizer for most liquid fuel engines)
<devBlaze>
I see, I wasn't aware of the "fuel+oxidizer" thing.
<devBlaze>
Is there a discord for Kerbal Space Program that you guys are active in, or do you only use this place?
<raptop>
There are, one way is messing with the advanced settings for selecting parts (click the triangle at the upper left portion of the parts window, and go down to filtering by tech level. the engines will be at level 2)
<raptop>
I think there's a dischord somewhere?
<devBlaze>
Do you guys mainly use this chat room?
<devBlaze>
I've never heard of 'TheLounge"
<Izaya>
thelounge is an IRC client, one of many
<raptop>
thelounge sounds like another channel on espernet (the IRC server we're in)
<devBlaze>
Well, it doesn't embed and that's unfortunate.
<raptop>
Afraid I'm not very familiar with roblox. Looks like a falcon 9 recreation?
<raptop>
(I mean, the link shows up fine and I can just click on it...)
<devBlaze>
Be careful clicking random links! *I'm sure you know*
<devBlaze>
But yes, that's right.
<devBlaze>
Well, I appreciate all the help guys. I don't know if you'll see me here again unfortunately - this is sort of a hassle rather than just using Discord to me.
<raptop>
hrm
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<raptop>
!8ball Should I do some sort of vaguely serious campaign at some point?
<LunchBot>
No chance.
<raptop>
well then
<devBlaze>
I tell you what, I actually sort of like this little chatting thing.
<devBlaze>
PLus you'
<devBlaze>
Plus you're helpful; how long have you been playing KSP?
<raptop>
aaaaaaa
<raptop>
Sometime in July 2011 >_>
<raptop>
Though I'll admit not very much for the past few years
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<devBlaze>
Dang man, I admit I have always admired space but have been naive to the science involved behind getting there.
<devBlaze>
Something I am looking forward to learning and experiencing though.
<raptop>
Fortunately, there are lots of resources available
<devBlaze>
I see all these peoples amazing creations; and I open the VAB and realize those guys are insane.
<raptop>
There's a lot of clever artistry, though also sometimes it's just getting a handle on Δv and TWR
<devBlaze>
Considering I had to google both of those things, probably indicates I'm in for the time of my life.
<JVFoxy>
ya but then.. how many parts is their creation and how much is the PC crying cuz its overloaded
<devBlaze>
I have a pretty great computer, so I'm excited to see what Kerbal Space Program can handle what I throw at it!
<JVFoxy>
I nearly had to revert a mission because nearly running on fumes. Surprisingly, the RCS helped quite a lot in that Mun orbit
<raptop>
To provide some context for devBlaze, Izaya has a mod installed (kOS) that lets you write various cripts, and used one for that rendezvous
<Izaya>
KSP is the reason I had to upgrade to a board that could take 32GB of memory >.>
<JVFoxy>
I just updated mine with some help.. I kind of wanna try Space Engineers..
<raptop>
JVFoxy: woot
<devBlaze>
Awesome, what code is KSP in>
<Izaya>
Space Engineers is the road to madness
<JVFoxy>
then again, I wanna try clouds in KSP again. Last time, PC was choking on something for some reason
<devBlaze>
I should probably get some hours before buying the DLC's huh.
<SporkWitch>
Izaya: facts. The production chain alone is just a nightmare, even with the build planner stuff they eventually added. What really drives me nuts, though, is just how BIG things end up so fast
<Izaya>
What really annoys me is the intentional artifical limitations
<JVFoxy>
maybe it was my GPU... back had just the HD7790, now its secondary to my RX580
<SporkWitch>
devBlaze: KSP DLC or Space Engineers DLC? KSP DLCs are absolutely worthwhile immediately, no reason to put them off. They compliment every stage of the game.
<Izaya>
Specifically, being unable to automatically jump using programmable blocks.
<devBlaze>
KSP DLC, I don't have the courage to do space engineers yet.
<Izaya>
Sure, have it disabled by default. Even have it disabled without mods. But if you can't write a mod that allows it you're really reaching
<SporkWitch>
Space Engineers they're pretty much all cosmetic, if I'm not mistaken. Although some of those cosmetics have gameplay benefits in the form of different slot layouts, making for more freedom in builds.
<devBlaze>
Oh, appears I was misleaded by my friends then.
<JVFoxy>
Well for me right now its a toss up between S.E. and Empyrion.. mostly cuz I've watched someone play stock Empyion and reforged with friends
<SporkWitch>
Space Engineers doesn't require courage, it requires patience. It's all fake physics. They couldn't even be bothered to do a sane orbit system, they literally have the sun itself move around the outside of the play area.
<devBlaze>
So question guys; does NASA have a KSP equivalant program to simulate space flight?
<JVFoxy>
I think they'd have sims for specific tasks, not an 'does everything' sorta dael
<raptop>
They have GMAT among other things
<JVFoxy>
when it comes to orbits, its probably something more with numbers and figures, only some visual representation thrown in
<SporkWitch>
The only thing that matters in terms of design are that your thrusters' direction matters, but that's about it. More thrust in X direction means you can change your velocity in that direction more, faster. If you're in gravity, you do need to worry about total thrust to offset weight for that body, but it's all brute force. You could put 10 down-facing thrusters on your butt (think the motor on
<Izaya>
I'm p sure a lot of the tools they use are available publicly
<SporkWitch>
a dingy, but thrust facing down, relative to the boat) and that works just fine, just need your magic gyro (can also place anywhere) to keep you level
<Izaya>
SE's jank physics does allow for some neat stuff, like having hover bikes be a practical sort of thing to build early-game
<devBlaze>
Hey that GSFC thing is neat
<JVFoxy>
neither SE or Empyrion deals with aerodynamics if I recall?
<JVFoxy>
I think Emp did, briefly, or maybe it was a mod or just with specific parts like wings
<SporkWitch>
JVFoxy: re: SE vs Empyrion, they both have their pros and cons. I'm not sure which is better, really. In terms of designing working stuff, SE's definitely better, but Empyrion feels less frustrating because of the simplified production chain and the fact ships don't end up MASSIVE almost instantly. The big negative is "magic" atmosphere, though. Not enough games do atmosphere right, with only
<Izaya>
There's a mod for wings in SE ... they're thrusters that put out more thrust the faster they're moving forwards.
<SporkWitch>
SE and Stationeers coming to mind.
<SporkWitch>
Yeah, there's a mod in SE for wings and props; they work REALLY weird, like even by KSP standards of aerodynamics lol
<JVFoxy>
I've this itch to a ship I've had in my head for a long while..
<JVFoxy>
sorta an RP thing I do else wheres online
<JVFoxy>
guessing orbit side ship building isn't going to be a thing IRL till we can extra resources from places like the moon..
<devBlaze>
Ignore my budget, poorly engineered falcon 9 heavy.
<raptop>
Heh
<devBlaze>
How did I manage to get the top decouplers attached but not the bottoms?
<raptop>
An unfortunate limitation of the way the game handles connections is that you can only have one decoupler attachment. In general the suggestion for reinforcing connections is to use strts (the EAS-4 strut connector, or the autostrut setting)
<devBlaze>
In what orientation can I do the strut connector?
<JVFoxy>
falcon heavy might be a little ... too much for little ol' kerbin
<raptop>
Something something Δv for a Kerbin -> Mun -> Kerbin mission is less than for getting to LEO in real life
<raptop>
For the strut connector, it should just work with clicking it on one part, then onto another
<raptop>
Should be somewhat less with them. If nothing else, more struts (somewhat spread out) will help. Also, good news with the struts -- they'll automatically dis connect when you stage the boosters
<JVFoxy>
when I use an engine too small for the tanks, I use the stack separator that matches the engine and a fairing that matches the tank. Though when doing that you can eliminate the fairing stage, optionally
<raptop>
The extremely short version is that orbit is about going sideways fast (2296 m/s at 70 km, 2246 m/s at 100 km, etc), and you only need enough altitude to clear the atmosphere (70 km for Kerbin)
<JVFoxy>
looking at some pics I took in past versions of KSP.. oh ya forgot about the 'boat to the arctic' experiment..
<devBlaze>
Well I was surprised when I found this was a thing;
<devBlaze>
Since my flight plan ends with me hitting the planet.
<devBlaze>
What do I need to do to get to orbit?
<JVFoxy>
@raptop no my gripe is how depending on the build tree on planes, sometimes you get odd-ball forces that wants to roll the plane while not in SAS mode, so you gotta turn it on anyways or do the whole 'desert bus' deal
<raptop>
If you still have fuel for that craf, wait until you're at roughly the Ap marker, and burn prograde (the -o- marker)
<raptop>
ah, that
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<JVFoxy>
@devblaze getting orbit isn't just about going up... idea is to get enough velocity that as you fall, you keep missing the surface.. or at least that's one way people put it
<JVFoxy>
oh.. missed. :\
<raptop>
I suspect that he'll be back.
* raptop
might not be awake then, though
<JVFoxy>
btw.. has it always been called 'gravity turn' back in the old days or?
<JVFoxy>
can't say I really remember hearing it till KSP has been around for a while
<raptop>
AFAIK, that's a correct term for real rockets. You'll also see 'zero lift turn'
<JVFoxy>
guess I'd just been so used to them saying 'roll program'. or something
<raptop>
I want to say that the roll program was a big thing with the shuttle because it was very much not circularly symmetric, and had to launch from a fixed direction
<devBlaze>
Also what the hell are the point of these cargo flairs?
<devBlaze>
Can I even get cargo places?
<JVFoxy>
fairings?
<devBlaze>
yes that.
<JVFoxy>
put things in them
<JVFoxy>
build your probe
<JVFoxy>
put a decoupler under
<devBlaze>
I have to build the prob too?
<devBlaze>
Damn
<JVFoxy>
fairing part, then build fairing around it.
<devBlaze>
KSP really in depth huh
<JVFoxy>
eh.. you get probe cores.. but you have to attach parts that'll let it live. solar power panels, battery usually a good start
<raptop>
Making a space station is at least in part declaring "this is a station". In career mode, you may be given a contract for specific parts. In sandbox, it's what you think is useful/interesting. Stuff like crew cabins, solar panels, the cupola, docking ports, the science processing lab, etc are popular.
<raptop>
That said, this gets into what's needed for orbital rendezvous and docking
<raptop>
hrm, neat song
<devBlaze>
Hmm maybe I should just
<devBlaze>
Try out career
<devBlaze>
Give it a wing
<devBlaze>
Since I sort of got this figured out.
<devBlaze>
Shit, I have to dock stuff too.
<devBlaze>
Can I do autopilot if I don't want to do that stuff?
<JVFoxy>
@raptop I don't remember how I came across AW... maybe caught one or a few songs from a game a number of years back
<raptop>
Not in the base game, though there are mods with additional automation
<raptop>
I lean towards recommending science mode for new players over career, simply to avoid the annoyances of dealing with funding limitations and the lack of instrumentation
<JVFoxy>
lol.. what was that pic I saw a while back... it was a graph of someone's knowledge level of orbital mechanics on a timeline and what games/things they came across. KSP made it basically go straight up
<JVFoxy>
with me though.. it was space shuttle's early days, getting MS Spacesim, then things sat in limbo till I got hands on KSP
<JVFoxy>
KSP is great, but there are times I worry the learning curve is crazy steep for some people. Shame no ones done a sort of KSP for beginners or something like..
<raptop>
The ingame tutorials were an attempt, shame about the bugs
<SporkWitch>
not so much bug, from my experience, as they still require you to use old versions of modules that don't normally show or are easily missed, so you have to use the filter tools (lot of forum posts about it and pointing people to how to proceed)
<SporkWitch>
not uncommon with tutorials that won't let you fail, heh
<JVFoxy>
ah right... that one work around
<JVFoxy>
mind you, I never went into tutorials..
<JVFoxy>
a random pic I took back in... 2016.. kerbal on Minmus, that camera angle of Mun and Kerbin with sun on top. Though now I look at it, after years of playing, a bit of a different meaning to me now: https://imgur.com/a/2G4LQjO
<devBlaze>
Can I refuel a rocket I have in orbit somehow?
<JVFoxy>
solar panels generate power while pointed at the sun. A must have for probe cores and batteries if things going to last for a long time up there
<raptop>
The solar arrays can be extended to provide electrical power/recharge batteries. Generally electricity gets used by things like reaction wheels, running probe cores, and/or transmitting science
<JVFoxy>
ah ya thanks for filling in the gap for me
<raptop>
Uh, also some motors for eg: rover wheels (or props with Breaking Ground)
<devBlaze>
Okay so, as it stands.
<devBlaze>
My rocket doesn't need them.
<JVFoxy>
well...
<JVFoxy>
depends on mission profile
<devBlaze>
What is a reaction wheels
<raptop>
They're not needed for ascent. Possibly in orbit
<devBlaze>
wheel*
<JVFoxy>
short term, the Mk3 can go for a bit with its own internal battery
<JVFoxy>
but if you wanna keep things topped off, the smaller ones will suffice
<raptop>
They're a way of turning spacecraft with gyros. In game terms, they mean you can orient your craft without expending fuel (just electricity)
<devBlaze>
Well that's fucking awesome.
<raptop>
Note that in-game reaction wheels let you turn much faster / have much more torque than their real world counterparts
<devBlaze>
Got it noted.
<JVFoxy>
lol.. something KSP doesn't teach, reaction wheel saturation.. granted its not an issue in game so..
<raptop>
bleah, I have to tap the whole language rule thing (since nominally we have to worry about little kids in here and the forum rules)
<JVFoxy>
specifically the ones with the metal bearings. Turns out electrical charges kept zapping across, causing pot marks.. when they used ceramic ones, it became less of an issue
<JVFoxy>
ya, in some cases, it even caused the metal to fuse together..
<raptop>
yeah, spot welding a bearing would cause problems
* raptop
should try out the whole being unconcious thing x_x
<JVFoxy>
thing is, its not so much as an arc weld like you think down here..
<JVFoxy>
sometimes its many little 'zaps', causes the surfaces to be come more irrgular..
<packbart>
I was looking for the schedule, tbh. I forgot the URL. ;)
<Mat2ch>
Uh, I might watch that one. It will be late, but when it's 40° C it will not be cool enough to sleep at midnight...
<devBlaze>
So, I am playing in sciense mode and I've already done all of the experiments?
<devBlaze>
How do I get more science points?
<Althego>
but you havent watched the other 5?
<Althego>
ok 2 had no stream
* raptop
is nominally doing work-related things, but eh
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<raptop>
For gathering more science, doing the experiments in different biomes/situations (eg: landed vs splashed, mountains vs grassland vs shore vs ocean vs icecaps, low altitude vs high altitude vs space low vs space high)
<Mat2ch>
On Mun, Minmus and further out.
<Althego>
minmus is a treasure trove of science
<Mat2ch>
And each moon and planet has their own biomes
<devBlaze>
I am getting better at this rocket stuff.
<devBlaze>
What can I do to better prepare? I don't have airbreaks, I only have parachutes.
<Althego>
probably too high speed
<Althego>
water is not forgiving
<devBlaze>
I go horizontal on reentry for maximum drag, then when safe deploy parachutes.
<devBlaze>
Should I try and save some fuel for a re-entry burn?
<devBlaze>
To slow down
<packbart>
and the Science Jr thing is prone to explode
<packbart>
you're lucky it even made it all the way to the water :)
<devBlaze>
im a useless engineer
<packbart>
moar parachutes works, too
<devBlaze>
lmao
<devBlaze>
Uh
<devBlaze>
So transmitting data
<devBlaze>
Pointless?
<devBlaze>
you take a hard hit from not recovering it
<packbart>
but the part you transmitted is safe, even if the experiment doesn't make it back
<Althego>
you cantake out all t eh science
<Althego>
even reset it with a scientist
<packbart>
that, too
<Althego>
but it is still an expensive part
<Althego>
you could try putting it on top
<devBlaze>
Questionj
<packbart>
science mode knows no budgets ;)
<devBlaze>
What do these heat raditors do?
<devBlaze>
Would I surround my science pod in them?
<devBlaze>
Keep it from getting so hot?
<packbart>
nah, that doesn't work well enough
<packbart>
(in my experience)
<packbart>
they can't radiate their heat in the plasma stream
<devBlaze>
plasma stream being the
<devBlaze>
heat caused from re-entry
<devBlaze>
right?
<packbart>
go slow enough not to heat up too much or bring a heatshield that covers the diameter of the parts. and put some heat buffer between the shield and the Science Jr
<packbart>
yeah
<packbart>
on a manned mission in science mode, I'd probably take the data out of the box into the capsule and ditch the bugger
<devBlaze>
:O
<devBlaze>
Remind me to not work for your corporation.
<devBlaze>
I'm emtionally attached to my kermin, they cannot die.
<packbart>
noo, I meant the science experiment :)
<devBlaze>
lol
<packbart>
the Science Jr is a pain to bring back ;)
<devBlaze>
Wait
<devBlaze>
so
<devBlaze>
how would I
<devBlaze>
ditch it
<devBlaze>
Just
<devBlaze>
🤔
<packbart>
with a decoupler. put it on the stack that burns up on reentry
<devBlaze>
smart
<Althego>
later on you can put it in a bigger service bay
<Mat2ch>
Add small docking ports and bring a space tug.
<Mat2ch>
afterwards an engineer can remove the docking ports
<SporkWitch>
those struts are the worst part, since there's no good way to get them up together, and getting them up separetly is wasteful and tedious. Better to have the station ITSELF be the struts and build off of that (just like the real space stations). There's a reason the sections are all cylinders: so they're easy to launch, then you attach them on end or to sides.
<devBlaze>
so
<devBlaze>
If I have a space station.
<devBlaze>
And I want to launch and get to it with more equipment.
<SporkWitch>
The enter key is not a punctuation mark. Please use fewer lines, with complete sentences on them.
<devBlaze>
So if I have a space station, and I want to launch and get to it with more equipment.
<devBlaze>
Does this mean I need to start timing my launches?
<devBlaze>
* is there an easy way to make sure I can reach it.
<SporkWitch>
if you're building it on an equatorial orbit, no, timing just makes it so you don't have to wait as long for a rendesvous, the delta-v is the same.
<SporkWitch>
if you time it, sure, that'll give you the most efficient rendesvous, but it's not a massive difference, and it's much harder unless you're using a mod that does the calculations for you
<SporkWitch>
If you don't, then what you do is you get that 70km circular orbit, then you start playing with the maneuver tool. Put a maneuver node on the opposite side of your current orbit (just to give you time before you reach it, so it doesn't mess things up while you're figuring it out). Add prograde burn to it so your apoapsis is the same as the station's orbit, now hit the "next orbit" (plus) button
<devBlaze>
NEat.
<SporkWitch>
on the maneuver tool until the rendesvous indicators are close together. Now start fiddling with prograde, retrograde, and moving the time of the burn forward and back. You want to get a rendesvous that's not greater than 5km, ideally 1km or less.
<devBlaze>
Thanks for giving me some information on things I need to make to have a larger space station.
<Mat2ch>
I guess I stay up for it. Still around 30° C outside and its after midnight
<SporkWitch>
RIP; nearly 30C here as well, and 90% humidity. Thunderstorm nearby, but not close enough to bring the temp down >_<
<SporkWitch>
feels like mississippi, not new york
<Mat2ch>
Luckily it's dry.
<SporkWitch>
definitely makes the difference between bearable and misery
<Mat2ch>
On the other hand everything is turning into desert.
* raptop
hugs a/c
* Mat2ch
steals raptops ac
<raptop>
(the concept. I'm not going to hug a heat exchanger)
<SporkWitch>
thankfully i do have AC, but even with proximity to Niagara, electric prices have gone up significantly
<SporkWitch>
i try not to run it, but with the heat this summer i've had to run it for nearly two straight months >_<
<SporkWitch>
normally only run it maybe 7 days total, when i'm forced to
<Mat2ch>
shouldn't you have cheap hydro energy?
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<SporkWitch>
should is the operative word; it's New York, the prices on everything have been skyrocketing, never mind the taxes. They've been hemhoraging population since even before the lockdowns and it's only accelerated since. They're trying to make up for the lost tax revenue and also make it more difficult for anyone that hasn't already left to be able to afford to leave
<SporkWitch>
add in inflation, and the massive federal tax hikes for everyone making 30k or more (read: nearly everyone with a job), and it'll be even harder come next year. I'm going to need a new job that doubles my current pay to manage it; i'll need at least a 50% increase just to maintain living paycheck to paycheck with what i anticipate my rent hike to be (20%, like it was this year) and the increased
<SporkWitch>
cost of groceries (used to be 150/mo for me; now it's 250 for about a week and a half to two weeks, and good luck finding meat at all)
<SporkWitch>
needless to say, i've been doing a lot of eggs (up ~40% compared to this time last year) and ramen (remarkably about the same price as last year)
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<Mat2ch>
Well, I'm always surprised how "cheap" groceries still are here. I even found very cheap organic flour again.
<Mat2ch>
And there is no real reason right now to increase the prices. I guess most companies just took what they could take