<SporkWitch>
amazon has sub-1k USD RTX-30-series GPUs... direct from amazon, too, not ex-miners
<SporkWitch>
can't wait to start this new job and get that first check, finally upgrade this GTX1060 ^^
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<funkenstein>
Why does puss mean face?
<funkenstein>
"Puss," meaning "the face," first appeared as a slang term during the 1880s. It's derived from the Irish term "pus," meaning the lips and mouth. The origin of "puss," meaning "a cat," which first appeared in English during the early 1500s, is less certain.Jan 23, 2011
<funkenstein>
SPORKWITCH\
<funkenstein>
sporkwitch
<funkenstein>
also I added the outcome in the first place
<SporkWitch>
"muff" and "puss" both refer to a piece of anatomy unique to females
<SporkWitch>
ah
<funkenstein>
I just relistened to the song and noticed that I heard the lyric wrong
<funkenstein>
mug and puss both refer to the face
<SporkWitch>
didn't recognize it as a song, both versions were silly but it seemed like the reason for changing the one was offense; apologies for the assumption.
<funkenstein>
it's entirely alrifhy
<funkenstein>
alright*
<funkenstein>
It's Funkadelic lol of course it's silly
<SporkWitch>
i'm running out of family-friendly ways to phrase it, but puss also refers to another body part that only females have; muff and puss together also made sense heh
<funkenstein>
that is why I thought it said muff the first time around]\
<SporkWitch>
hehe
<funkenstein>
;mission
<LunchBot>
You search for buried treasure on Eve. You return 5 minutes later to find out you missed everything.
<funkenstein>
quick trip back from eve
<SporkWitch>
just five more munar surveys... sooooooo many biomes >_<
<funkenstein>
how many?
<SporkWitch>
17
<funkenstein>
/O..O\
<SporkWitch>
i did minmus yesterday, doing wolf surveys and establishing depots in each biome. did the mun today.
<SporkWitch>
mun's taking longer not just because of the number of biomes, but because of the higher gravity, the landings are much touchier heh
<funkenstein>
ah dang, I was working on a minmus-ready rover that you could use
<funkenstein>
\itt sounded like an interesting project
<SporkWitch>
i still need it
<funkenstein>
alrighty
<SporkWitch>
i need something that uses no reaction mass so that the transport routes between depots are free. I COULD just cheat and teleport myself to the next biome to link them and write it off as combatting against wonky wheel physics, but whenever possible i do try to do things legitimately at least once, then use the convenience stuff to remove the tedium of doing it repeatedly
<SporkWitch>
i think i found the "free" ion thruster and i've almost unlocked it, which would let me use the repulsors. They're definitely kind of cheaty, but at least it's an actual vehicle making the trip lol
<SporkWitch>
come to think of it, i've no idea how bon voyage will treat a vehicle using repulsors and mach effect engine... lol
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<funkenstein>
I had a rover that lmost worked, not as intended but by using reaction wheels to roll along the surface
<funkenstein>
you may be waiting a few hours, my computer room is 37 degrees and I'm sweating like a stuck pig
<funkenstein>
the fans the tower are wheezing
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<SporkWitch>
oof
<SporkWitch>
double oof, that looks like a thermal shutdown lol
<funkenstein>
first action is set to toggle the twitch engines and disable their gimbaling, if you gas it only when you first start moving or hen you turn, you should be fine
<funkenstein>
I got about 2km at up to 28m/s before I got bored of test driving
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<SporkWitch>
funkenstein: and it didn't spontaneously disassemble? lol
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<Althego>
(local) leet time
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<SporkWitch>
i think it's similar to the way USI Life Support sometimes freaks out with teleports and desides the kerbals you JUST launched are homesick, likely a race condition occurring and in this case the world first check ran before the atmospheric pressure updated
<SporkWitch>
hmmm... i think the tracks might actually be even worse than wheels in really low gravity, like minmus...
<SporkWitch>
i'm on only a 5° incline and it can't get enough grip to slow me down
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<FLHerne>
;outcome add You have entered into atmospheric flight above Minmus.
<LunchBot>
Added outcome: You have entered into atmospheric flight above Minmus.
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<Mat2ch>
!mission
<LunchBot>
You attempt to recreate the scene in Interstellar and dock with a spinning ship. Kerbin's oceans boil off.
<Mat2ch>
!mission
<LunchBot>
A cat gets on your keyboard and fires every thruster at once. A group of meddling kids and their talking dog reveal that your rocket is actually Gene Kerman!
<SporkWitch>
FLHerne: in fairness, the mod that adds clouds does seem to have an improper config, causing a kind of "fog" on minmus and the mun lol
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<raptop>
Minmus slowly evaporating and having vague fog in the flats sometimes would be amusing
<Pinkbeast>
Delicious fog!
<SporkWitch>
kind of how i'm rationalizing it heh. At least in KSP1 lore it is ice cream :P Apparently in KSP2 they've had to retcon it to glass, because they just couldn't find a chemical combination that would allow an icy moon at that distance from the sun, so with glass they can at least keep the appearance and have it consistent with physics
* raptop
wants to say that some of the KSP1 science messages say that the flats are salt
<Pinkbeast>
I still think it's frozen pudding
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<Mat2ch>
well, you can make glass into a salt with acid...
<SporkWitch>
the wolf stuff gets very complicated to scale up, fast... lots of bootstrapping issues with setting up initially on a new planet, since the modules to produce one dependency have what that produces as its own dependency...
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<SporkWitch>
nice, my CO₂-burning shuttle can get to my station with almost 400m/s to spare :)
<SporkWitch>
7 tonne payload; not a lot, but it's "free" since it refills simply by sucking CO₂ from the air :)
<SporkWitch>
bah, can't make it back to the ground >_<
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<funkenstein>
I have a separation of 0.2 km and a relative speed of 14.1 m/.s, yet i cannot seem to dock
<funkenstein>
in fact whatever I'm doing is moving me farther from my target
<funkenstein>
the docking tutorial is frankly no help
<Pinkbeast>
14.1 is super quick and that sounds like you are describing circles around it
<funkenstein>
well that's the best I can do with the maneuver planner, but I'm sure there's something else I'm oding wrong
<funkenstein>
also, in regards to sporkwitch and his previous question, no, the minmer does not RUD
<funkenstein>
if he would care to try it I'm sure it would serve him well
<funkenstein>
could it be that the orbits are too similar to work out?
<Pinkbeast>
funkenstein: At 0.2km and 14 m/s I'd just be looking to turn away from the target-relative velocity and match velocities
<SporkWitch>
that's fine for the encounter, once you've reached that, switch navball to Target mode, point Target-Retrograde, and kill your relative velocity. Now point a Target, approach at 1-5m/s (depends on the TWR of your RCS)
<SporkWitch>
Repeat as necessary
<Pinkbeast>
Dunno what (if any) mods you have but I think that can be done unmodded just by eyeballing the navball
<SporkWitch>
absolutely can. 0.2 and 14m/s encounter is an excellent rendesvous
<SporkWitch>
if you're trying to use mechjeb's docking autopilot, you have to set Control from here on a docking port AND you must be close enough for "set target" to work when right clicking the other ship's docking port (around 150m)
<SporkWitch>
depending on how unwieldy the ship is, i actually find manual to be faster than mechjeb, but if i'm in something big, unbalanced, or just doesn't maneuver well, then mechjeb's patience and caution seems to be fine and less frustrating
<funkenstein>
AH
<funkenstein>
I was pointing target prograde and burning
<funkenstein>
I still can't make mods work so no mods, just navball
<funkenstein>
it is certainly large, but I think I can manage it
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<SporkWitch>
remember what prograde and retrograde mean. Burning orbital prograde INCREASES your orbital speed. Burning TARGET prograde increases your RELATIVE speed
<funkenstein>
I burnt away from target and increased it to 34.7km immediately\
<funkenstein>
what gives
<funkenstein>
also yes, duh
<funkenstein>
but as I just mentioned, burning retrograde jumper the separation wildly
<SporkWitch>
no disrespect, there would have to be some user error here. Unless your TWR is really high, a short puff target retrograde would decrease relative velocity; only way it'd go up is if you burned hard enough that it reversed your velocity (so you started retrograde, killed it, and kept going; if the engine was strong enough, this could happen fast enough not to notice, maybe)
<funkenstein>
To be fair I am using a skiff to do my maneuvering
<funkenstein>
and yeah it was going down then it was going up
<SporkWitch>
sounds like that may have been what happened, then
<funkenstein>
that must be the case
<SporkWitch>
right click the engine and drag the throttle limiter down. Your main throttle still works the same, but now it's adjusting as as percentage betweeen 0 and the limit you set, allowing far finer control
<funkenstein>
loading, lowering thrust limiter to 10%
<funkenstein>
yep
<SporkWitch>
sorry; please don't ever take offense if i say something you already know, i'm accustomed to working with non-technical people and explaining things, and a strong believer that it's better to tell someone they already know than to not tell one assuming one knew, when one didn't
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<funkenstein>
I don't take offense
<funkenstein>
I often ask if people are keeping up no matter the simplicity of the subject, as some people can totally mis it
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<funkenstein>
should I begin the retrograde burn around 20 seconds before the closest point?
<funkenstein>
that sounds about right to me but this is my second time docking
<SporkWitch>
all depends on how fast you're changing velocity, just like any other burn. if you can do the ΔV in less time, you don't need to start as early
<Pinkbeast>
Ideally the midpoint of the burn would be the closest approach and presumably you know the TWR
<SporkWitch>
related: don't burn perfectly towards the target; better to overshoot than crash heh
<funkenstein>
the first one, I seemed to have lined up the maneuver near perfectly by chance, leaving me close enough to see the port I wanted
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<funkenstein>
this one is much larger and less wieldy, with a 76 ton vessel with, after lowering my thrust limiter, 0.4 twr
<SporkWitch>
if you're already down to 200m or so, I would be fine killing speed immediately then burning towards the target at just 1-2m/s, w/e you're comfortable with
<funkenstein>
right then
<SporkWitch>
if the other vessel is more maneuverable, might be easier to switch and dock with that one in control; either way can be easier to switch if only to rotate to align the ports so you don't have to maneuver around it
<funkenstein>
I was going to switch around in order to line them uyp, yes
<SporkWitch>
matt lowne is a big fan of that method: get ships close, kill relative velocity, target docking port and point at target marker, switch ships and do the same thing, now both ships are working to point their ports at each other and you just have to burn straight ahead, slow
<funkenstein>
now I've missed the intercept but got down to 10m/s relative, I have another with 13m/s relative velocity but it's at 13km
<funkenstein>
that seems like it spells failure, to my mind
<SporkWitch>
13 means rising or lowering to a phasing orbit and trying again, yeah
<SporkWitch>
*13km
<funkenstein>
also yeah, that's where I learned to do it
<funkenstein>
the LOwne Lazy Method, as he called it
<SporkWitch>
yup
<funkenstein>
would I be better to adjust and try agin, or revert to the quicksave with the 0.2km
<funkenstein>
which for some reason changed to 20m/s when I loaded
<SporkWitch>
20m/s and 0.2km? this is the closest approach marker, or your actual, current status?
<funkenstein>
marker\
<SporkWitch>
okay, time warp to about a minute or so before that, point target retrograde, and use best judgement on when to kill the relative velocity
<SporkWitch>
your speed will be higher or lower than what was reported, that 20m/s is what it will be when you're at the closest approach, then it will go up again. by killing the relative, you're effectively just circularizing your orbit to match the target's, but your distance will stay about the same. the rest are just the fine adjustments to get your orbits EXACTLY the same
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<funkenstein>
current position 1.4 km and 3.4 m/s
<SporkWitch>
not ideal, but manageable. i'd approach at 10-15m/s, but keep an eye on your positioning and cancel it all out, then burn target again as necessary, because the farther away you are, the more the orbit itself is going to be fighting you (famous story of the first orbital rendesvous attempt exhausting a LOT of ΔV and having to give up because what you need to do is not intuitive)
<funkenstein>
now I'VE GOT A PROJECTED 0.5 KM AT 6.8M/S
<funkenstein>
caps
<SporkWitch>
yup, just rinse and repeat at that point
<darsie>
Gilly?
<SporkWitch>
docking
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<darsie>
Yeah, if you try to catch up with your target and thrust towards it, you increase your orbit and if you're not fast enough, you fall behind even more.
<funkenstein>
I keep bouncing around between 0.2 and 0.6 km, and 3-20m/s
<funkenstein>
it is so close! and so frustrating
<Mat2ch>
as a burn?
<funkenstein>
current position
<SporkWitch>
as in, right now, you're that far away?
<Pinkbeast>
Adjusting a reasonable expected position by fiddling now almost never works, especially if you use RCS for orientation.
<Pinkbeast>
With a "projected 0.5km at 6.8 m/s" I would, well, wait until I was about 600m away
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<funkenstein>
yes
<funkenstein>
I use reaction wheels for orisntattion?
<funkenstein>
wo, can't type
<funkenstein>
wow*
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<SporkWitch>
the fact the game doesn't have a native setting to NOT use RCS for attitude control is absurd and infuriating. single most useful mechjeb feature lol
<Pinkbeast>
reaction wheels - good, in terms of this problem, but even so it just can be very hard to fine-tune a rendezvous from far out. I'd aim to use up that 6.8 m/s dV at 500m.
<funkenstein>
great idea-if it would let me that close
<Pinkbeast>
So, hang on, you get that projected intercept in the map view - then what?
<SporkWitch>
funkenstein: yeah, don't touch RCS for orientation. point yourself target retrograde and try to 0 your relative velocity at closest approach, point towards it, give it 0.5-1m/s directly towards the target (pink marker, NOT target prograde), immediately turn target retrograde again, kill velocity and repeat as needed. If the target-prograde and target markers overlap, this functionally means
<funkenstein>
I'm stuck withing the 7-800 meter range, and unable to get my velocity relative to the target lower than 8m/s
<SporkWitch>
you're on a collision course, though as you both proceed through the orbit you will get some lateral drift
<Pinkbeast>
How did you get from that projection to that situation?
<funkenstein>
by doing as I was instructed
<Pinkbeast>
And; what happens if you set the navball to Target mode, orient against the relative velocity, and try to cancel it out?
<Pinkbeast>
by doing as I was instructed> I'm trying to help but I really can't if I don't actually know what happened.
<funkenstein>
it doesn't cancel out, at 8m/s it starts going back up
<funkenstein>
I'm tryinhg to tell you what happened but I'm a freaking idiot
<Pinkbeast>
What _is_ the target and approximately what orbit are you in?
<SporkWitch>
you're not pointing target-retrograde if that's the case. you WILL pass through 0.0 if you're burning directly target-retrograde
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<Pinkbeast>
(and, can you post a video? No problem if not but " at 8m/s it starts going back up" sounds like some obvious interface error
<Pinkbeast>
)
<funkenstein>
sure, how do I capture video again?
<SporkWitch>
goddammit, we're having a comm issue >_<
<Pinkbeast>
I fear I meant more "do you have existing arrangements to do so" - what about the target/orbit question?
<funkenstein>
communication breakdown
<SporkWitch>
depending on the resource, the game refers to the Target marker as the Target Prograde marker, and likewise for anti-target and target retrograde >_<
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<funkenstein>
I have target and anti-target on my menu
<Pinkbeast>
Even a screenshot (which I think is F1 by default) at the point it starts going back up would be useful
<funkenstein>
bear in mind that there is no mechjeb option
<Pinkbeast>
OK; what is the target, and what is the approximate orbit (around what?)
<SporkWitch>
when we're saying target retrograde, we're referring to the navball set to Target and the marker you're aiming for is the regular retrograde marker. When set to target, this is showing you prograde and retrograde relative to the target. the pink ones are showing you DIRECT BEARING to or away from target
<funkenstein>
ok
<SporkWitch>
http://www.projectrho.com/public_html/rocket/images/controldeck/navballIcons.jpg what this image calls "target prograde" is what we've been calling the "target marker"; the retrograde icon, while the navball is set to target is what we've been calling "target retrograde" (what this image calls target retrograde i'd normally call anti-target)
<SporkWitch>
if you were aiming for the pink one that image calls "target retrograde" that's why the velocity isn't changing as expected.
<funkenstein>
it has been near-overlapping with thepink on e
<SporkWitch>
if you're moving directly toward or away from it, they will overlap; prograde and target if moving toward it, retrograde and target if moving away from it
<SporkWitch>
the main thing is this: if we want to kill our relative velocity we ONLY care about the yellow (green in the image) Retrograde marker. For all of thise, once you're at the encounter, navball should be set to Target on the velocity indicator. When we want to increase velocity to get close, we point at the pink circular Target indicator. Alternate between yellow retrograde to kill everything, and
<SporkWitch>
pink Target to approach directly again, until you're there.
<funkenstein>
right, so.... I should be fighting my sas the whole time?
<funkenstein>
this seems so wrong
<funkenstein>
aaand KSP vrashed
<SporkWitch>
i don't know what you mean by fighting SAS
<funkenstein>
well if I have it set for target but I'm trying to go prograde, I have to fight against my reaction wheels\
<FLHerne>
no, set SAS to whatever direction you want to be in, assuming the pilot level is high enough for it to be available
<SporkWitch>
SAS ≠ navball. Click where the speed shows, this will cycle through Surface, Orbit, and Target. THAT is what should be set to target. For SAS, you click "retrograde" to kill relative velocity, you click "target" to approach target AFTER killing relative velocity
<Pinkbeast>
(otherwise just have it stabilise)
<funkenstein>
wo
<funkenstein>
I really am stupid
<SporkWitch>
like i said, comm issue
<SporkWitch>
you were doing what you were told, as you understood it, but we were referring to different things
<funkenstein>
is it normal to feel a little cracked when trying to learn this
<SporkWitch>
you've been at it a couple hours now, it's natural to get frustrated, and IIRC you're in Germany, aren't you? it's rather late there
<Pinkbeast>
IDK about normal but I found it sheer hell in an unmodded world
<SporkWitch>
dunno how old you are, but i'm definitely not 20 anymore and can't do those 20+ hour days lol
<funkenstein>
I started this when I woke up
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<funkenstein>
so this has been what I've been doing for the two hours awake, also I'm 20 and my sleep issues lead me to have 28 hour days
<SporkWitch>
if you wanna hop on discord or similar, i can boot up the game and try to stream a demonstration. Will take a few to set up, between my 10 minute load time, and the need to stage it (my current station drops the FPS to 6 or so, i think it'd be a slideshow if streaming lol)
<funkenstein>
sure, why not
<funkenstein>
this is a fine mess I have got myself into
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<funkenstein>
;mission
<LunchBot>
You accept a contract to test the Mk16 parachute in flight over Kerbol. You have entered into atmospheric flight above Minmus.
<funkenstein>
miscalculation: impossibl
<SporkWitch>
ah, perfect pairing with the new outcome lol
<SporkWitch>
funkenstein: dunno if you saw it earlier, but that outcome is from an actual message i got earlier lol
<funkenstein>
just not being stupid this time around
<SporkWitch>
not impossible, just REALLY difficult and frustrating, as you've discovered lol
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<funkenstein>
I smacked it into the right position carefully
<funkenstein>
once i got how it wasn't bad at all
<SporkWitch>
glad to hear it; hopefully i was of help, but if not, either way, you got it done :)
<funkenstein>
you were of quite a biut of help
<funkenstein>
watching it happen helped a lot, aslo watching you miss gave me the idea of using the notch betwenn the pods to coax the first vessel into position
<funkenstein>
your bonk was of help to me
<SporkWitch>
fair enough lol. like i said, i don't generally stream, not used to having an audience and explaining while i do stuff lol
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<SporkWitch>
hmm... might have to see if i can find the emitter and glasses for 3d once i get a new GPU; i suspect nvidia's software would do a decent job of estimating in KSP and it would help so much with estimating position and distance
<SporkWitch>
assuming it's even still supported on nvidia's side; i feel like it was pretty much abandoned once VR reached acceptable quality.
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<funkenstein>
you did quite well
<funkenstein>
it put me in mind of a few times my class had teachers from other places patching in remotely and explaining concepts with graphics
<funkenstein>
KSP in VR would be amazing and awful
<funkenstein>
combined with that cockpit mod? in a tilted seat? ushtrufgherthftgg
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<SporkWitch>
... have i shown you a picture of my setup? lol
<funkenstein>
I know that they appear to but seeing a panel labeled "toothbrushes" in the hitchhiker module really mad it sink in that kerbals have teeth
<SporkWitch>
the tripod you see behind the left monitor (can just barely make it out) is for one of the VIVE lighthouses lol