Sigma88 changed the topic of #Kopernicus to: #Kopernicus | Release 1.3.0-4 - https://git.io/v0Gg5 | Pictures: https://git.io/vHqLy | List of packs: http://git.io/vWjiY | GitHub: http://git.io/vWAFE | Examples: http://git.io/vWAF9 | Visual Editor: http://git.io/vWAbq | Funny Quotes: https://git.io/vHqt8 | <Kopernicus> Kopernicus/master 91e89a4 thomas-jenkins: Kopernicus 1.2.2-6 - "404 - Title not found"
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<SigmaAway> 0/
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<EveRecolor> [Sigma-EveRecolor] Sigma88 opened pull request #10: Development (master...Development) https://git.io/vQiGl
<EveRecolor> [Sigma-EveRecolor] Sigma88 closed pull request #10: Development (master...Development) https://git.io/vQiGl
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<Sigma88> thomas, I was thinking to add to the Texture2DParser the ability of finding a MAPSO and return a Texture2D
<Sigma88> specifically
<Sigma88> if no Texture2D with the provided name are found
<Sigma88> look through the MapSo
<Sigma88> and if one is found (eg, biomes)
<Sigma88> create a new texture2d with the same colors of the mapso
<Sigma88> and return that texture2d
<Sigma88> that texture2d will now have the same name as the mapso, meaning if you try to use the parser again to get a texture2d with that name, it will return the new texture (instead of creating a new one again)
<Sigma88> what do you think about that?
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<GregroxMun> o/
<GregroxMun> I'm home.
<Sigma88> 0/
<GregroxMun> heh
<GregroxMun> Sigma88: What do you think I should name the Red Giant Sun mod?
<GregroxMun> Red Giant Sun (RGS), Now It's Over (NIO), Dead, or something else?
<Sigma88> do you have a red giant sun mod?
<Sigma88> I didn't know
<GregroxMun> I'm gonna soon.
<Sigma88> I used RGS in GN
<Sigma88> and it's used in this paper as well
<Sigma88> actually
<Sigma88> that paper uses "RGB"sun
<GregroxMun> "Red Giant Branch"
<GregroxMun> I imagine?
<Sigma88> yup
<GregroxMun> I'm gonna call it "Now It's Over" For now.
<Sigma88> Let it rip
<Sigma88> :D
<GregroxMun> ?
<Sigma88> the outer layers
<GregroxMun> It's not quite at that stage yet.
<Sigma88> that's your next mod :D
<GregroxMun> lol
<GregroxMun> actually my next mod is Alien Space Programs. I want to get a basis for Red Giant Sun finished so I don't end up never doing it after spending time on ASP.
<Sigma88> that paper has interesting math
<Sigma88> if you find out what type RGS will be, please let me know
<Sigma88> in GN I used M2 III
<GregroxMun> I want to show it at its coolest, at 2602 K according to the paper, in the Red Giant Branch.
<GregroxMun> That's apparently also when it's at its biggest.
<GregroxMun> That would be M6 II if I'm not mistaken.
<Sigma88> this is what I used
<Sigma88> mass = 0.668
<Sigma88> radius = 256
<Sigma88> temperature = 2602
<GregroxMun> That should be M6, not M2.
<GregroxMun> Sorry, M6 III, not M6 II, as I had said earlier.
<Sigma88> k
<Sigma88> thanks
<Sigma88> I'll fix it in the next release
<Sigma88> why M6 tho?
<GregroxMun> I'm using this table.
<GregroxMun> It's an edu site, so I assume it's accurate.
<Sigma88> nice
<Sigma88> thanks
<GregroxMun> According to the arxiv paper, Mars is really only briefly in the habitable zone. It only takes the sun two billion years to go from 1.84 Lsol to 2000 Lsol, so I assume it would be in the habitable zone for just a few million years. It just enters the habitable zone at the end of the main sequence.
<GregroxMun> And that's the cold end.
<GregroxMun> I don't think Earth and Mars ever coexist in the habitable zone.
<Sigma88> isn't mars in the habitable zone right now?
<GregroxMun> The numbers I use are 0.97 to 1.37 AU
<GregroxMun> Oh wait
<GregroxMun> Mars is 1.5.
<GregroxMun> I thought it was more like 1.8.
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<GregroxMun> So it's not in the zone now, but I think there might be a brief period where they share the zone.
<Sigma88> so there's no way mars could be habitable?
<GregroxMun> Earth is likely to become Venusian during that period without a starshade system at the L1 point.
<GregroxMun> No.
<GregroxMun> That's not what I said.
<GregroxMun> Mars would be habitable for a few million years.
<Sigma88> no I mean now
<Sigma88> right now
<GregroxMun> No not now.
<GregroxMun> Not without terraforming, and that's a temporary thing for the next few billion years.
<Sigma88> assuming we magically increase greenhouse effect
<Sigma88> well, mars is probably too small for an atmosphere
<Sigma88> but assume you have something like venus out there
<GregroxMun> I'm not a climate expert, but in my opinion I would say that if we swapped Venus and Mars, both would have a better chance at habitablility.
<GregroxMun> Venus, maybe not.
<GregroxMun> Mars, also maybe not.
<GregroxMun> But with the current solar system setup, Mars right now definitely has a shot at the hab zone for several million years.
<GregroxMun> And assuming Earth has a technological civilization at the time, (fingers crossed), sunshades can be set up to keep Earth cool enough for habitability, and terraforming can turn Mars warm enough early.
<GregroxMun> Basically, if life in the solar system is to continue past Earth, it will rely on a technological civilization acting as a very long term protector.
<Sigma88> they won't be humans so who cares :D
<GregroxMun> True.
<GregroxMun> Nothing on Earth will be the same.
<GregroxMun> It's basically an alien planet.
<Sigma88> I wonder what is the longest living species known
<GregroxMun> Eventually, even with no extinction events, a species will become so different from its progenitors that if you time-traveled one backwards to breed with a member of its ancestors, you wouldn't get fertile offspring.
<GregroxMun> I guess that would be "temporal speciation."
<GregroxMun> But there's probably an official term for it.
<Sigma88> yup that's what I meant
<GregroxMun> Perhaps some species of avians could have continued from the original avian dinosaurs?
<Sigma88> what do you mean?
<GregroxMun> idk
<Sigma88> lol
<Sigma88> seems like the mammal species that lasted the longest was around for 23My
<GregroxMun> that's really rather long.
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<Sigma88> yup
<GregroxMun> For some reason the config is preventing the game saves from being loaded.
<GregroxMun> kopernicus logs show now issues.
<Sigma88> wanna show me?
<GregroxMun> give me a minute
<Sigma88> just copy the mm cache in the folder
<Sigma88> on dropbox
<Sigma88> so I can take a look directly there
<GregroxMun> oh you know what
<GregroxMun> it might be the orbit node.
<Sigma88> yup
<Sigma88> that's likely
<Sigma88> just remove that and try again
<GregroxMun> true, even.
<GregroxMun> Sigma88, do you think you could go and find the pattern for the sun light intensity curve?
<GregroxMun> because I couldn't figure it out.
<Sigma88> what do you mean?
<GregroxMun> For the new Kopernicus with sunlight intensity scaling with distance.
<Sigma88> ah I never looked at the intensity thing
<Sigma88> how does it work?
<GregroxMun> ScaledVersion/Light/IntensityCurve and /ScaledIntensityCurve
<GregroxMun> the first number is distance.
<GregroxMun> the second number is intensity.
<GregroxMun> only I can't figure out what units the distance are in, or even if they're actually linear units.
<GregroxMun> (they might be weird like brightness curve)
<GregroxMun> s/linear units/following a linear curve
<Qboid> GregroxMun meant to say: only I can't figure out what units the distance are in, or even if they're actually following a linear curve.
<Sigma88> so, wait
<Sigma88> that's just for color right?
<Sigma88> not the energy output
<GregroxMun> just the color, yes.
<GregroxMun> I mean the color itself doesn't change, just the brightness.
<Sigma88> I would have just linked it to the energy :D
<GregroxMun> I wish that was the case.
<Sigma88> ok
<Sigma88> I can tell you what to test
<GregroxMun> alright.
<Sigma88> first of all, we need to understand what unit of distance is used
<Sigma88> for doing that try this
<GregroxMun> I believe it is around the scale of the kilometer.
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<Sigma88> key = 0,0,0,0
<Sigma88> key = 13000000000,0,0,1
<Sigma88> key = 13000000001,1,1,0
<Sigma88> key = 1E+100,1,0,0
<Sigma88> try this curve
<Sigma88> this curve should go from 0 to 1 within a meter
<Sigma88> put a planet slightly under that limit, and one slightly above
<Sigma88> and you should see one black and one fully lit
<Sigma88> this will allow you to find the correct distance unit
<Sigma88> within a certain error
<GregroxMun> what sma for the planets?
<Sigma88> well, if 1 unit is 1 meter
<GregroxMun> then 13000000001
<Sigma88> yup
<Sigma88> stay a bit above that just to avoid weird effects
<Sigma88> let me check the curve
<Sigma88> ok, the curve is fine
<Sigma88> you might want to try with a round number
<Sigma88> like 1 million
<GregroxMun> Everything should be black under the limit with that curve, right?
<GregroxMun> I wonder if the scale might be 1 meter in scaledspace.
<GregroxMun> it's 1:6000, right?
<Sigma88> yes
<Sigma88> try to use 100000 and 100001 in the curve
<Sigma88> also don't put commas in the curve
<GregroxMun> I am such an idiot.
<GregroxMun> I am a big giant idiot with "Stupid" on my face.
<GregroxMun> I'm not using the right Kopernicus.
<Sigma88> which is the right kopernicus?
<GregroxMun> I might be a few builds behind, but just now I was using the release version
<GregroxMun> I'm back on the version with scaled
<GregroxMun> sorry
<GregroxMun> with intensity curve
<GregroxMun> Units that aren't it: meters, kilometers, scaledspace meters.
<GregroxMun> wait no
<GregroxMun> it is the scaledspace meter!
<Sigma88> :)
<GregroxMun> alright!
<Sigma88> !c 1e6*6000
<Qboid> 6000000000
<GregroxMun> now I wonder if I could get Thomas to add a multiplier in the code to set it to meters.
<Sigma88> !c 1e6*6000/13e9
<Qboid> 0.461538461538462
<Sigma88> it's probably pretty simple
<GregroxMun> but wait
<GregroxMun> important to note that I haven't checked IntensityCurve, only ScaledIntensityCurve
<GregroxMun> IntensityCurve might be in meters.
<GregroxMun> well no matter because as far as I can tell ScaledIntensityCurve affects ships.
<GregroxMun> Sigma88, can you create an inverse square law curve assuming 13599840256 meters is equivalent to intensity = 1?
<GregroxMun> With derivatives, I mean.
<GregroxMun> I can make my own version that has no derivatives in the keys, but it won't be quite as good.
<Sigma88> what's the math?
<GregroxMun> distance^-2 = intensity.
<GregroxMun> intensity = 1, distance = 2266640.04
<GregroxMun> so 1/10 the distance would be 100x brighter.
<Sigma88> how many points?
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<Sigma88> ok I might as well give you the math to do it
<Sigma88> so
<Sigma88> given that intensity = 1, distance = 2266640.04
<Sigma88> the star "power" is 4*pi*2266640.04
<GregroxMun> why is that?
<GregroxMun> oh I see
<Sigma88> which means
<Sigma88> for every distance "d"
<Sigma88> you have a certain intensity "i"
<Sigma88> which is
<Sigma88> i = p/(4*pi*d)
<GregroxMun> i should just be d^-2, shouldn't it?
<Sigma88> no
<Sigma88> the derivative is
<Sigma88> i' = - p / (2*pi*d^3)
<Sigma88> p is power
<Sigma88> pi is 3.14
<Sigma88> !c Math.PI
<Qboid> 3.14159265358979
<Sigma88> !c MathD.PI
<Qboid> (1,2): error CS0103: The name `MathD' does not exist in the current context
<Sigma88> !c Mathd.PI
<Qboid> (1,2): error CS0103: The name `Mathd' does not exist in the current context
<Sigma88> I think ksp doesn't accept negative deformity anymore
<Sigma88> >_>
<GregroxMun> wat
<GregroxMun> no
<GregroxMun> i am not a fan of that concept
<Sigma88> I'm trying to remake antikerbin
<Sigma88> it's not working
<Sigma88> maybe I need to add an offset
<GregroxMun> Sigma, what's the MM syntax to multiply parts of a key?
<GregroxMun> Sigma88 ^
<Sigma88> what do you need?
<GregroxMun> I want to just have key = 1 1 and modify the first one to be 2266640.04 or that times sqrt luminosity for other stars.
<Sigma88> so you want to multiply the first number by something you decide?
<GregroxMun> yes
<GregroxMun> for all keys
<Sigma88> @key,*[0, ] *=
<Sigma88> keep in mind that if you want to do that, you might as well create a standard curve from 1 1
<Sigma88> with derivatives
<Sigma88> and then modify the derivatives
<Sigma88> if you multiply the first, you need to divide the derivatives
<Sigma88> if you multiply the second, you need to multiply the derivatives
<GregroxMun> I'm not worrying about derivatives for now, I'm tired and lazy and in the mood that has been known to cause egg some form of stress in the past.
<Sigma88> if you don't have proper derivatives the curve will be very weird
<GregroxMun> It should be linear decreases between curve points
<Sigma88> nope
<Sigma88> it's 0
<Sigma88> so it's flat at the point
<GregroxMun> so I'll do i' = 1 and i'' = 1
<GregroxMun> i mean
<GregroxMun> i'' = 0
<Sigma88> you lost me there
<GregroxMun> d i 1 0
<GregroxMun> no I guess that wouldn't work.
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