egg|nomz|egg changed the topic of #kspacademia to: https://gist.github.com/pdn4kd/164b9b85435d87afbec0c3a7e69d3e6d | Dogs are cats. Spiders are cat interferometers. | Космизм сегодня! | Document well, for tomorrow you may get mauled by a ネコバス. | <UmbralRaptor> egg|nomz|egg: generally if your eyes are dewing over, that's not the weather. | <ferram4> I shall beat my problems to death with an engineer.
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<UmbralRaptor>
;8ball Did ambiguity save me from a major bug?
<kmath>
UmbralRaptor: Without a doubt
<iximeow>
congratulations
<UmbralRaptor>
Other things trying to save me from bugs: the jumping spider that was on my leg this afternoon.
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<kmath>
<✔Alex_Parker> Roughly 75 megawatts of laser just rolled into our lab, so that's fun.
<e14159>
I just spent ten minutes trying to reinstall the xorg-input package to get my keyboard to work again. Without a virtual keyboard, only with a (badly configured) touchpad.
<SnoopJeDi>
e14159, isn't Linux great?
<e14159>
Turns out you can in fact copy/paste the sudo password from disjointed characters. And can copy the \n.
<e14159>
And to think that the reason I had this issue is that I replaced my arch with Kubuntu, thinking that I'd avoid having to always repair my computer... :-/
<e14159>
And yes, that xkcd is appropriate :D
<e14159>
SnoopJeDi: At least I broke it myself :-)
<egg>
bofh: I think gh synodics is ~months (it's a 36 day period)
<egg>
bofh: and eb synodics is your day on TRAPPIST-1e
<egg>
bofh: important note, there are many things roughly equal to gh synodics
<egg>
(multiples of other synodics)
<egg>
bofh: so it's not clear which one should be the month (but then again there are probably 1729 definitions of month just with the earth-moon-sun system so)
<bofh>
egg: on a random note, what is the difference between a zugerörgeli and a button accordion?
<bofh>
also I don't think it makes sense for anything other than e revolutions around TRAPPIST-1 to be a day
<egg>
I know nothing about accordions of either kind
<egg>
bofh: that's way too long though, also not a very visible event
<bofh>
wait, that's a *less* visible event than planetary synodics?
<egg>
it's "if you're on the night side you've seen the night sky revolve after that time", instead of "a planet just went between you and the sun"
<egg>
(assuming near-coplanarity, which we likely have because transits)
<bofh>
wait, is TRAPPIST-1e tidally locked against its sun?
<egg>
they all are iirc
<bofh>
oh. oh okay then yeah disregard what I said earlier >_<
<egg>
bofh: it's a *weird* calendar for a *weird* place :-p
<bofh>
"At worst, your hands and the surface of the pole will both be converted into exciting new forms of matter, and then you'll be flung away and plummet to your death." ROFL
<bofh>
egg: fair
<bofh>
okay in that case eb synodics make perfect sense
<egg>
bofh: but when aligning with the sidereal e-year suddenly the difference between say 4 eh synodics and 18 eb synodics (both close approximation of the gh synodic) changes the length of the cycle from 13 to 14 months
<egg>
bofh: so clearly you need leap eb synodics,
<APlayer>
egg: Want a German linguistic problem I found?
<APlayer>
Anyway, to whomever speaks German and is interested: "Mit dir" but "Ohne dich". Now someone explain please :P
<Ellied>
bofh: typo where?
<APlayer>
(I mean, I got as far as to say that "Mit" requires the dative and "Ohne" requires the accusative, but why? Aren't the two the exact opposite of each other but grammatically equivalent?
<bofh>
Ellied: "cognotohazard"
<bofh>
egg: I mean that makes sense
<egg>
APlayer: hm
<egg>
bofh: so you have 21 different kinds of years? :-p
<Ellied>
bofh: that was intentional, but it's definitely a kinda dumb inside joke
<Ellied>
the cognitohazard makes you replace all vowels with o
<bofh>
oh?
<Ellied>
tho cognotohozord mokos yoo roploco oll vowols woth o
<bofh>
egg: I mean, weird calendar for weird place :P
<SnoopJeDi>
wololo?
<Ellied>
I made an o-ifier as a botfunction once and the KSPO ops flipped
<SnoopJeDi>
flopped?
<Ellied>
floppod
* SnoopJeDi
is incapable of helping himself
<egg>
Ellied: oh yes there was >weepoon too on lizzie
<Ellied>
I thought it was >woopon
<Ellied>
oh no that too
<egg>
there was weepoon too
<egg>
also wepn
<Ellied>
didn't >weepoon make it double vowels or something
<bofh>
weepoon is great
<egg>
yeah
<egg>
bofh: Thomas gave Qboid some the features of bots past, lizzie was Ellied's
<bofh>
wepon is iirc from HALF-LIFE: FULL LIFE CONSEQUENCES: FREE MAN
<kmath>
<LizzieTheIRCBot> it was a was a string a string index string index error index error again, error again, egg. again, egg. not egg. not your not your fault
<egg>
Ellied: was that an attempt at a Lizzie марковbot or somesuch?
<SnoopJeDi>
/topic not egg's fault
<bofh>
<Kountdown> although to be fair all good rockets made by americans seem to be made from a dense planet's elements. <- I mean it's not *wrong*...
<Ellied>
egg: egg: egg: egg: yes
<egg>
!pet Ellied
* Qboid
pets Ellied
<Ellied>
:3
<Ellied>
I never quite grokked markov chains, and my algorithm was extremely inefficient
<kmath>
<LizzieTheIRCBot> <Kountdown> You agree with their political views, but I'd eat a house cat
<Ellied>
I didn't have multiprocessing implemented either, so it would sometimes ping out while chewing on it
<bofh>
20:34:31 <@Ellied> egg: egg: egg: egg: yes
<bofh>
classic markov bot
<SnoopJeDi>
Ellied, living in the in-between space where you sorta-understand is how real understanding grows :P
<egg>
bofh: Kountdown did some pretty fun things though
<SnoopJeDi>
relatedly: *wow* Mandelbrot's derision for formal math is good
<egg>
bofh: partly because it was seeded on madness tbh
<egg>
bofh: although honestly I wonder how stable the numbers for the sidereal periods are, it might resonate better than I get from just looking at the ensemble means, so maybe the motions of the planets within the gh cycle is actually preserved with some slightly different cycle?
<bofh>
egg: reminds me of a Markov bot I wrote back in the day, let me find some quotes from it
<egg>
in which case you might be able to define a more sensible ~500-day cycle
<egg>
bofh: you should train a марковbot on this channel
<egg>
18 eb is eggstremely close to gh, the others (9ec, 3ed, 2ef, 4eh) less so
<bofh>
SnoopJeDi: ofc
<egg>
wait I got my colours wrong
<SnoopJeDi>
bofh, wish I had the animated one bookmarked, hehe
<egg>
hm maybe not
<egg>
I'm confused
<egg>
but anyway it would be interesting to look at the behaviour on an actual dynamical system
<egg>
unfortunately it's somewhat tricky to get an initial state for this stuff
<egg>
the papers tend to give ensemble means or whatever
<egg>
also mean anomalies without a date, which are supremely useless
<SnoopJeDi>
egg, read the interesting bit in Mandelbrot's Essay about the history of "Natura non facit saltus" yesterday, the linguistic variety reminded me of your musings
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<bofh>
egg: wait, why are dateless mean anomalies necessarily useless if you have formulae for their time-evolution?
<egg>
bofh: if you had formulae for the evolution of the elements I wouldn't be complaining
<bofh>
(I guess if they just give values for the mean anomalies that are dateless and unchanging in time that *is* extremely useless, but why would one do that?!?)
<egg>
but they're generally not trying to provide analytical ephemerides (they're rather out of fashion even for our system)
<egg>
bofh: because it came out of the MCMC analysis and there was room in the table? I don't know
<bofh>
wait, analytical eohemerides are out-of-fashion? even ones that add in interplanetary perturbation terms?
<egg>
bofh: I mean iirc the main planetary solar system ephemerides are numerical now?
<egg>
чебышёв series usually
<egg>
might be a different story for the ephemerides of moons
<bofh>
depends on precision, I s'pose.
<egg>
bofh: "the main planetary ephemerides" being JPL's DE, the IMCCE's INPOP, and the ИПА's ЭРА-EPM
<egg>
Principia currently uses DE exclusively for the solar system, we should look at the other two too
<kmath>
<jgerity> Okay, I fully admit it. I'm burnt-out. Badly. This sucks and I don't like it, I want to like "what I do" but it tak… https://t.co/xcEuCzPQRU
<SnoopJeDi>
rofl the person replying "Perfect, especially if you know the Voyager backstory"
<SnoopJeDi>
David. You are replying to @ridingrobots
<egg>
UmbralRaptop: so dfhack prospect says the only ore in this embark is sphalerite
<egg>
UmbralRaptop: not even gold like in the previous one, just zinc :-p
<egg>
so I guess I better prepare some goblinite collectors?
<UmbralRaptop>
egg: guess so.
<UmbralRaptop>
Can you sell copies of books for metals?
<SnoopJeDi>
new embark? did the University of Nomal shutter their doors?
<bofh>
SnoopJeDi: I kinda want to reply to them with "you know this is the person who runs @CassiniSaturn, right?" but prolly won't.
<SnoopJeDi>
upon review of his profile, he seems well-meaning and pretty legit
<bofh>
like I won't fault anyone for being excited and well-intentioned, tbqh.
<tawny>
he probably meant it for the sake of people who are not nasa
<tawny>
well
<tawny>
I am going to be generous and assume he meant it for the sake of people who are not nasa :p
<SnoopJeDi>
agreed, that's the interpretative universe I most want to live in
<egg>
UmbralRaptop: there's a tiny bit of marble but it's at the edge of the map...
<egg>
SnoopJeDi: wanted to try a newer DF version
<egg>
but honestly this is lacking in Nomal
<xShadowx>
how do we know saturn/jupiter are just giant balls of gas with no planet surface? i mean...given the size, storms too big to see through, and the fact they seem to attract asteroids, wouldnt said asteroids pile up at the center and create a surface?:|
<bofh>
nope, any asteroid impacting it would burn up in the layers of atmosphere
<xShadowx>
even solid iron?
<bofh>
granted, Jupiter almost certainly has a metallic hydrogen core and Saturn very likely has one.
<bofh>
yes
<tawny>
it's more that jupiter is really really big so the inside part is gonna be really really dense and when that happens words like "solid" and "surface" don't really mean the same
<egg>
bofh: also burned up or not once you reach the core things are Fun
<UmbralRaptop>
I'd give David the benefit of the doubt, given his work in historical analysis of missions.
<UmbralRaptop>
xShadowx: as in the core? (I'm not clear on how sharp the atmo/metallic hydrogen boundary is with Jupiter. Last I saw from Juno was that the core/mantle boundary was fuzzy)
<bofh>
^
<egg>
hmm, without marble I can't even make quicklime for parchment...
<SnoopJeDi>
UmbralRaptop, same
<UmbralRaptop>
egg: D:
<egg>
UmbralRaptop: I mean mushroom paper works but it's somewhat silly
<tawny>
jeez, you don't have marble OR metals?
<egg>
ah there are rope reeds
<egg>
tawny: I have zinc! my previous attempt at a DF university somehow had gold and nothing else
<egg>
so just gold bookcases
<egg>
and shooting goose bolts at goblins
<tawny>
haha
<egg>
occasionally dog beak bones at dog beaks
<tawny>
now *that* feels like dwarf fortress
<egg>
but here it's going to be zinc bookcases? that's boring
<egg>
I mean I can wait for the goblinite to arrive and make goblinite bookcases
<egg>
copper goblinite with zinc would allow for brass everything
<egg>
brass-bound books?
<egg>
UmbralRaptop: rope reed paper should do the job
<UmbralRaptop>
egg: sounds almost Egyptian.
<egg>
there's papyrus in DF
<egg>
but that's in tropical regions
<UmbralRaptop>
nice
<egg>
this is temperate
<UmbralRaptop>
Are there clay tablets?
<UmbralRaptop>
Oh, cool. I probably have to redo all these simulations. And then there's how much CPU time getting all the RVs will take… >_<
<egg>
UmbralRaptop: what happened?
<UmbralRaptop>
egg: An error of a factor of 1e8 in converting energy emitted by stellar photospheres to photons. Also some smaller errors related to counting CCD readout times in exposure times.
<UmbralRaptop>
(and readout noise as if they were taking single exposures instead of a bunch for a single observation, but that's like a 1% error or less)