egg|nomz|egg changed the topic of #kspacademia to: https://gist.github.com/pdn4kd/164b9b85435d87afbec0c3a7e69d3e6d | Dogs are cats. Spiders are cat interferometers. | Космизм сегодня! | Document well, for tomorrow you may get mauled by a ネコバス. | <UmbralRaptor> egg|nomz|egg: generally if your eyes are dewing over, that's not the weather. | <ferram4> I shall beat my problems to death with an engineer.
<egg> bofh: Wikipedia cites 24/24, 24/15, 24/9, 24/6, 24/4, 24/3, and 24/2 which is probably from Luger et al. 2017 + some trivial arithmetic
<bofh> 313/34 for the third-last. wtf, these are all crazy weird, but I guess there's constant perturbations in the system.
<bofh> yeah I'm not sure I believe those
<egg> ;rpn 2.42180746 1.51087637 /
<kmath> egg: 1.602915703817646
<egg> bofh: that's close to 8/5
<egg> it's not 8/5, but it's furiously close
<iximeow> !wpn -add:adj furious
<Qboid> iximeow: Adjective already added!
<UmbralRaptor> !choose cats are functional|cats are object oriented
<Qboid> UmbralRaptor: Your options are: cats are functional, cats are object oriented. My choice: cats are object oriented
<egg> UmbralRaptor: I mean we know that whitequark is
<egg> !wpn whitequark
* Qboid gives whitequark a scatter insulator with a scale attachment
<UmbralRaptor> well, yes.
<Majiir> How can you Shroedinger a cat without mutation?
<bofh> egg: so like it might be 8/5 and our detection ability being limited is adding in the uncertainty, perhaps? or am I totally off the mark?
<egg> bofh: nah, the uncertainties are way below that
<egg> bofh: the periods are basically the only thing you measure directly, and you can refine it arbitrarily with moar observation time and good clocks
<egg> so on those 1.51087637 2.42180746 4.049959 6.099043 9.205585 12.354473 18.767953 you have ±0.00000039 ±0.00000091 ±0.000078 ±0.000015 ±0.000016 ±0.000018 ±0.000080
<egg> bofh: the periods have lower errors than the mid-transit times, since you can just wait a long time and get another transit to refine the error on the period
<egg> Majiir: I mean you can clearly superpose it; it's collapsing that's a mess
<egg> !wpn Majiir
* Qboid gives Majiir a Lie group
<egg> !wpn bofh
* Qboid gives bofh an observable
* UmbralRaptor assumes that one can shield the cat from the radioactive source, or use an alternate random method.
<egg> bofh: how do you do something with 1.602915703817646 though that's still not 8/5 >_>
<egg> after ~50 orbits of b the closest transits change phase...
<egg> something something vernier scale
<egg> ;rpn 18.767953 1.51087637 /
<kmath> egg: 12.421898556795881
<egg> ;rpn 4.049959 1.51087637 /
<kmath> egg: 2.680536330050618
<egg> ;rpn 6.099043 6.099043 /
<kmath> egg: 1
<egg> um
<egg> ;rpn 6.099043 1.51087637 /
<kmath> egg: 4.036758480774969
<egg> bofh: that's a pretty convincing 4
<egg> and then the convergents are 109/27 and 440/109
<egg> so that's d/b
<egg> c/d has 8/5, then 109/68 and 880/549
<egg> bofh: they might not be simple ratios, but they're pretty close, and the convergents are similar
<egg> sorry that was e/b and c/b
<bofh> hrmm
<egg> convergents for all ratios
<egg> (1st column is */b)
<egg> bofh: anything obvious besides the 109 and 440/880?
<egg> h/c seems very close to 31/4 so maybe that's usable as a long cycle
<bofh> egg: yeah, h/c is the most obvious, maybe that can be our metonic cycle analog? :P
<egg> bofh: but how does that work out in practice, do you insert leap whatevers every 4000ish c transits to realign on the 31/4 cycle?
<egg> and the 880 bce thing is very neat in that it involves three bodies
<egg> g/e also seems to be 79/39 for all practical purposes
<egg> (the next convergents has more digits than there are sigfigs)
<egg> ;rpn 12.354473 6.099043 /
<kmath> egg: 2.025641235846345
<egg> ;rpn 79 39 /
<kmath> egg: 2.025641025641026
<bofh> yeah, 79/39 seems to be extremely close, to the point where I'm willing to bet it's exactly that.
<egg> ;rpn 79 6.099043 *
<kmath> egg: 481.824397
<egg> bofh: so that's a 481.824397-day (79e, 39g) cycle
<bofh> not bad.
<egg> bofh: have you made offerings to 𒀭𒁕𒃶 https://twitter.com/bofh453/status/998018252625375232
<kmath> <bofh453> LRTs: *so* referring to hurricanes as "swirling ocean death" from now on.
<bofh> now is the time, I s'pose.
<bofh> (hurricane season starts in 2 weeks officially)
<egg> ;rpn 1.51087637 880 *
<kmath> egg: 1329.5712056
<egg> ;rpn 1.51087637 880 * 481.824397 /
<kmath> egg: 2.759451812482629
<egg> bofh: of course the nice cycles don't align with each others :-p
<egg> bofh: wait no that 79/39 cycle is all in the uncertainties afaict
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<egg> black values are unaffected by the 1σ error, bold red are (the mean is used)
<egg> so 31/4?
<egg> for h/c
<egg> ;rpn 18.767953 2.42180746 /
<kmath> egg: 7.749564451337515
<egg> ;rpn 31 4 /
<kmath> egg: 7.75
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Majiir is now known as Snoozee
<Ellied> https://images10.newegg.com/NeweggImage/ProductImageCompressAll1280/13-128-835-07.jpg someone on the SCP IRC channel posted this picture of a motherboard with a bunch of problems (they were mainly indicating the audio stuff right next to the PCIe slots)
<Ellied> but I also just noticed the pin headers labeled "USB3.0" which uhhh
<Ellied> not sure if standard 2.54mm pin headers are closer to connectors or dipole antennas for 5 Gb/s differential signals
<UmbralRaptor> eep
<kmath> <vaporstack> leaving the previous tweet, as it was typed by my cat, thank you @BitlBee for making twitter literally accessible to cats
<egg> !wpn Ellied
* Qboid gives Ellied a catbus
<egg> !wpn UmbralRaptor
* Qboid gives UmbralRaptor a giant catenoid
<egg> !wpn bofh
* Qboid gives bofh a Bussard glass resistor/Буран hybrid
<egg> !wpn whitequark
* Qboid gives whitequark a field effect neutron
<kmath> <watering76> 快寫到中風😫 https://t.co/oaU9Ezx82Q
<egg> bofh: is there a name for tensoring a vector with itself
<egg> (or a form with itself, whatever)
<egg> !seen GregoxMun
<egg> ;seen GregoxMun
<kmath> egg: I haven't seen gregoxmun
<Qboid> egg: I haven't seen the user GregoxMun yet.
<egg> hm
<egg> ;seen Gregox
<kmath> egg: I haven't seen gregox
<egg> blarg
<egg> bofh: UmbralRaptor: should I use ♁ or 🜨 for earth masses
<egg> !u ♁🜨
<Qboid> U+2641 EARTH (♁)
<Qboid> U+1F728 ALCHEMICAL SYMBOL FOR VERDIGRIS (🜨)
<egg> !u ☉
<Qboid> U+2609 SUN (☉)
<egg> !u ⊕
<Qboid> U+2295 CIRCLED PLUS (⊕)
<egg> groan
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<bofh> tensoring a vector with itsself? not that I can think of, offhand.
<egg> bofh: wait should a TRAPPIST-1-based calendar be based on the sidereal periods, or the synodic ones
<egg> bofh: is it a callendar for the TRAPPIST-1eians or a calendar for the observers of TRAPPIST-1
<egg> bofh: anyway there's something fun with 109 periods of b https://i.imgur.com/akCr9g4.png
<UmbralRaptor> egg: synodic, otherwise we can just stick SI prefixes onto seconds.
<egg> UmbralRaptor: ?
<egg> UmbralRaptor: okay now I'm confused how do synodic periods work again >_>
<UmbralRaptor> Carefully.
<egg> hah
<egg> UmbralRaptor: which planet should I use as reference
<UmbralRaptor> I wan to type "like resistors in parallel or capacitors in series, but subtract instead of add"
<UmbralRaptor> egg: uh, which one do you think is most likely to have the aliens?
<egg> UmbralRaptor: dunno, any of efg seem nice iirc?
<egg> lemme fetch the latest paper
* egg casts "summon Gillon et al."
<UmbralRaptor> ~academic software~ https://atran.sofia.usra.edu/cgi-bin/atran/atran.cgi
<UmbralRaptor> (That form works, and the raw data files are 10s of MiB)
<egg> SOFIA?
<Qboid> egg: [SOFIA] => Stratospheric Observatory For Infrared Astronomy
<egg> :D
<egg> ATRAN?
<egg> UmbralRaptor: not sure what to make of the conclusion of https://arxiv.org/pdf/1802.01377.pdf
<egg> ", given the assumptions made on the core composition, TRAPPIST-1e cannot accommodate a H2-dominated atmosphere at all."
<UmbralRaptor> egg: they're not mini-neptunes.
<egg> UmbralRaptor: okay so def are the fun ones?
<egg> but f has incident flux < Mars
<egg> ~earth mass tho
<UmbralRaptor> e has earthlike density, and nicer flux. Mass is probably good?
<egg> UmbralRaptor: amusingly assuming tidal locking, you don't have a day, and with synodic periods you don't have a year either, so the only time unit you can use is some other planet's synodic period?!
<UmbralRaptor> Hah
<UmbralRaptor> Tracking things like conjunction and opposition?
<egg> yeah
<egg> bofh: oh wait I'm an idiot, of course the numbers were weirdly off, it's the synodic periods that are ~exactly in nice ratios
<egg> bofh: the wikipedia article is somewhat error-inducing in that respect
<bofh> ...riiiiiiiiiiiiiight I'm also an idiot, but I also blame wikipedia here :P
<egg> okay now we can has a calendar
<egg> bofh: UmbralRaptor: https://i.imgur.com/VXnicVn.png
<egg> higher convergents are not preserved within the 1σ uncertainties on the periods, so that's basically all exact
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<bofh> nice.
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<egg> UmbralRaptor: bofh: wait I'm confused again, why is it the synodic periods that are nice here but in things like kirkwood gaps it's obviously the sidereal periods (since there's nothing with respect to which anything would be synodic)
* Iskierka spies a bofh on her timeline
<bofh> Iskierka: you would be correct
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<egg> UmbralRaptor: bofh: okay but now the longest cycles is just 18 synodic periods of b, which is 36 days, that's a bit short for the longest cycle of a calendar
<egg> there are synodic period ratios yielding cycles of 2, 6, 9, 12, 18, and 36 synodic periods of b
<egg> no wait there's no 36
<egg> UmbralRaptor: should the sidereal period be involved in some fashion too? or is there another way to summon longer periods?
<bofh> grr, I forgot way more of my orbital mechanics than I thought >_>
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* egg pets UmbralRaptor
<UmbralRaptor> egg: something with nutation (if present), or eg: alignments with the outer planets?
<egg> UmbralRaptor: I'm looking at all 7 planets here
<UmbralRaptor> blarg
<egg> UmbralRaptor: the longest period is the synodic period gh basically, and that's ~36 days
* UmbralRaptor was hoping for something analogous to the 26 month earth-mars cycle, but between g and h.
<UmbralRaptor> Ah
<egg> fast planets are fast
<egg> h has a sidereal period of 18.76 days
<UmbralRaptor> Ultracool dwarfs are smol.
<egg> UmbralRaptor: although I guess if you're looking at the outer planets from e, you may have noticed that there's a night sky, so you can detect the sidereal year?
<egg> calendars without days or seasons are weird :-p
<UmbralRaptor> egg: something like how some calendars track what constellation the full moon is in?
<egg> UmbralRaptor: I mean basically all calendars are going to have some conception of the year of the planet they're on, and here I'm not doing that because I only use synodic periods wrt the planet
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<UmbralRaptor> I guess the night siders definitely know what a sidereal year is (weather permitting), but that's even shorter than 36 days.
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<kmath> <bofh453> OH: "a sentence I just read: "…it is a straightforward consequence of Grothendieck's version of the Atiyah-Singer-H… https://t.co/2ZehLmt2iB
<kmath> <Cannibal> This made my day https://t.co/72U23Zs4AK
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<egg> bofh: um
<egg> UmbralRaptor: yes, but it's not a multiple of the synodic periods, so suddenly you can get long periods from the convergents
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<UmbralRaptor> Yay
<xShadowx> dogs arent cats, dogs are too dumb to be cats
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<bofh> brb microwave is on fire
<UmbralRaptor> xShadowx: tapetum lucidum
<UmbralRaptor> bofh: uh
<xShadowx> too much spices in the chili
<bofh> okay good the breaker blew and it seems to have burned itsself out, judging by the smell I'm fairly certain the transformer winding caught on fire, prolly due to a short.
<egg> meow
* UmbralRaptor meows at egg per GDPR requirements.
* bofh also meows at egg per the same
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<UmbralRaptor> With all the mutual staring, one should probably just ask the void out.
<bofh> ...that's a good point.
<kmath> <Mogrymillian> Ich, halbiere ein Rezept. ⏎ ⏎ Rezept: 320g Nudeln ⏎ Ich: okay, 160g. ⏎ ⏎ Rezept: 40g getrocknete Tomaten ⏎ Ich: okay, 20g. ⏎ ⏎ R… https://t.co/w9DbDkPl4r
<bofh> egg: okay let me actually read thru backlog now that I have time and no parts of my kitchen are on fire
* egg meows at whitequark
<egg> bofh: UmbralRaptor: btw phl is investigating making a principia config for TRAPPIST-1 (probably compatible with Gregox's or something)
<whitequark> hi
<UmbralRaptor> egg: Ooh…
<bofh> https://twitter.com/a2_4am/status/998304943416205313 HOLY SHIT HOLY SHIT HOLY SHIT
<kmath> <a2_4am> And now for something completely insane... https://t.co/vbxneRNsgE
<bofh> egg: nice
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