egg|nomz|egg changed the topic of #kspacademia to: https://gist.github.com/pdn4kd/164b9b85435d87afbec0c3a7e69d3e6d | Dogs are cats. Spiders are cat interferometers. | Космизм сегодня! | Document well, for tomorrow you may get mauled by a ネコバス. | <UmbralRaptor> egg|nomz|egg: generally if your eyes are dewing over, that's not the weather. | <ferram4> I shall beat my problems to death with an engineer.
<bofh>
egg|zzz|egg: so the only sane definition of metal imho is "Is a Fermi liquid at sufficiently low, but not necessarily zero temperature"
<egg|zzz|egg>
also, I've found the GDPR surprisingly readable?
<egg|zzz|egg>
(yes somehow I've read bits of the thing for no good reason)
<bofh>
egg|zzz|egg: and the only sane definitions of glass are an amorphous solid state/broadly amorphous within an overall semicrystalline lattice, or highly pure crystals of methamphetamine hydrochloride
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<egg|zzz|egg>
bofh: "the only sane definition of metal" < you forgot the astronomical one
<bofh>
YES, I had no idea that even was a document but at the same time I am 0% surprise.
<bofh>
surprised.*
<egg|zzz|egg>
bofh: there's a typo on that site: Longitude -64.692307 is equal to 64°° 41' 32.3052'' W. (64 degrees West)
<egg|zzz|egg>
bofh: there's a section about the degree sign in the Lexique, I'll tell you what you should do in french typography tomorrow :-p
<egg|zzz|egg>
bofh: it even has a section on mathematical typesetting!
<egg|zzz|egg>
as you may know the french convention differs from the anglo-saxon one
<egg|zzz|egg>
bofh: in french, greek lowercase and capital latin are upright, not italic
<bofh>
wait, Greek lowercase is Italic?
<egg|zzz|egg>
(whereas the anglo-saxon tradition typesets them italic, which is why the tex default is greek lowercase italic)
<egg|zzz|egg>
bofh: no, it's roman
<bofh>
Yeah that's what I thought.
<egg|zzz|egg>
it's italic in english
<egg|zzz|egg>
but in french it's upright
<bofh>
also fuck that shit, that's why I have to redefine \epsilon as \varepsilon to get a usable epsilon.
<egg|zzz|egg>
and then in ISO it's upright if it's a standard symbol :D
<egg|zzz|egg>
bofh: but the epsilon vs. varepsilon thing isn't about italics though
<egg|zzz|egg>
it's about a symbol with two glyphs, but that's orthogonal to italicization
<bofh>
why is the default the bullshit form?
<egg|zzz|egg>
!u εϵ
<Qboid>
U+03B5 GREEK SMALL LETTER EPSILON (ε)
<Qboid>
U+03F5 GREEK LUNATE EPSILON SYMBOL (ϵ)
<egg|zzz|egg>
blame Knuth?
<bofh>
yes, the Lunate Epsilon is the bullshit form
<egg|zzz|egg>
indeed
<egg|zzz|egg>
!u Εεϵ϶𝚬𝛆𝛦𝜀𝜠𝜺𝝚𝝴𝞔𝞮
<Qboid>
egg|zzz|egg: Too many characters! (Maximum: 10)
<egg|zzz|egg>
!u Εε𝚬𝛆𝛦𝜀𝜠𝜺𝝚𝝴𝞔𝞮
<Qboid>
egg|zzz|egg: Too many characters! (Maximum: 10)
<egg|zzz|egg>
bofh: anyway Εε𝚬𝛆𝛦𝜀𝜠𝜺𝝚𝝴𝞔𝞮 are non-bullshit
<egg|zzz|egg>
but french will use ε whereas english will use 𝜀
<egg|zzz|egg>
bofh: \mathbs{\epsilon} % ϵ
<egg|zzz|egg>
bofh: also the Lexique shows parentheses that don't scale to match exponents or parentheses (so that (((((((x))))))) has all parentheses of the same size), which I managed to emulate in TeX eggstremely tediously :-p
<egg|zzz|egg>
it's prettier tho
<egg|zzz|egg>
\left \right produces ridiculously oversized parentheses if you have subscripts or superscripts
<bofh>
yeah, but I find that visually groups things more nicely for me even if it seems visually worse
<bofh>
s/visually/aesthetically/
<Qboid>
bofh meant to say: yeah, but I find that aesthetically groups things more nicely for me even if it seems visually worse
<bofh>
(yes I know the canonical semtex is RDX + plasticizer)
<bofh>
so I expanded that commit message and I see Lie Groups
<egg|zzz|egg>
aptly named because 1. it tries to have semantic aliases for everything even if they look the same 2. it does the weirdest things (redefines ^ and _ so that they don't make brackets scale and other entertaining tricks) and will likely blow you up if you are not expecting it
<egg|zzz|egg>
bofh: but hey look at those fancy stretchy integral signs which I'm somehow using to delimit a giant matrix :-p
Majiir is now known as Snoozee
<egg|zzz|egg>
bofh: of course there are Lie groups
<egg|zzz|egg>
what did you expet
<egg|zzz|egg>
s/.$/ct
<Qboid>
egg|zzz|egg meant to say: what did you expect
<egg|zzz|egg>
bofh: did you expect to look at something and not see Lie groups
<egg|zzz|egg>
whitequark: https://twitter.com/whitequark/status/999806173451714560 are they actually deprecated? they're CJK-specific and using them outside of a CJK context *is* terrible, but they only decompose NFKC to degree sign C, not NFC like Ohm etc.
<kmath>
<whitequark> @bofh453 ok but it uses the deprecated ℃ and ℉ characters so it's actually terrible.
<whitequark>
I think they are
<whitequark>
but I'm not sure
<egg|zzz|egg>
it certainly makes no sense outside CJK so this site has no business recommending them without a big caveat, but they might still make sense in a CJK context
<bofh>
I'm 95% sure they are, I recall seeing this in the context of the U+3380 - U+33FF block which is also deprecated.
<bofh>
and yeah I mean also inside a CJK context, iirc the only thing they should be used for is direct mapping from JISX0208 or w/e when anything more sane is hard.
<whitequark>
yep
<whitequark>
it's for roundtripping
<whitequark>
everything else can be handled with font ligatures
<egg|zzz|egg>
yeah a lot of stuff is there for that
<egg|zzz|egg>
who explicitly marks them as deprecated though
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<egg|zzz|egg>
because unless NF[CD] does something to them, they're interchangeable and normalized
<egg|zzz|egg>
they don't seem to have the "use of this character is discouraged" in the Unicode charts either
<bofh>
ROFL I JUST GOT A GDPR EMAIL FROM PHYS REV B
<bofh>
also Springer and Nature, separately (which is even more perplexing as I don't have accounts on either, at least with PRB I reviewed a lot for them once).
<whitequark>
egg|zzz|egg: I'm pretty sure that entire block is discouraged
<egg|zzz|egg>
I mean it's called CJK Compatibility so I guess it says so in the title
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<whitequark>
We vent a lot of gas -- more than a cubic meter of helium gas per second throughout the entire flight.
* Qboid
gives whitequark a sufficient hole with a catbus attachment
<egg|zzz|egg>
should I sleep
<UmbralRaptop>
!choose sleep|sleep
<Qboid>
UmbralRaptop: Your options are: sleep, sleep. My choice: sleep
<UmbralRaptop>
;choose sleep|sleep
<kmath>
UmbralRaptop: sleep
<UmbralRaptop>
Seems obvious enough.
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<whitequark>
!choose sleep|peels
<Qboid>
whitequark: Your options are: sleep, peels. My choice: peels
<whitequark>
;choose sleep|peels
<kmath>
whitequark: peels
<whitequark>
egg|zzz|egg: re U2100, huh, I haven't realized it's a different block
<whitequark>
I guess they're okay then
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<egg|zzz|egg>
whitequark: honestly the degree celsius thing feels eggstremely odd and is *probably* a compat thing?
<egg|zzz|egg>
but it's very hard to know the reasons for encoding in Unicode 1.x
<egg|zzz|egg>
I guess I could ask mark davis what he thinks of U+2103
<egg|zzz|egg>
hm I think he's on vacation at the next i18n monthly lunch
<egg|zzz|egg>
!u ℃
<Qboid>
U+2103 DEGREE CELSIUS (℃)
<egg|zzz|egg>
whitequark: honestly from a practical standpoint using ℃ seems to trigger font fallback to serifed fonts in sans-serif contexts so it seems like a bad idea
<egg|zzz|egg>
but then that's consistent with a lot of CJK stuff so maybe it's fine?
<kmath>
<DragonsofWales> Small but (sort of) deadly. ⏎ Just a few weeks old, this little dromaeosaur is already practicing its hunting skills… https://t.co/ZlW9K9xW9d
<kmath>
<nika_desert> Well u can tell by the way I use my walk ⏎ I'm a science-led cat, no time 2 talk ⏎ Music loud & lava warm, I've been ki… https://t.co/89x8bnMCOd
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<xShadowx>
so watching the movie braveheart, william wallace slaughtering the english, you know how it goes ;p and i startyed to wonder, why didnt the english just get in cars and mow down the scotts?
<egg|zzz|egg>
!wpn UmbralRaptop
* Qboid
gives UmbralRaptop a delta function
<egg|zzz|egg>
!wpn bofh
* Qboid
gives bofh a contravariant Kusanagi-like gantlet
<egg|zzz|egg>
!wpn whitequark
* Qboid
gives whitequark a tetrapod gradient
<iximeow>
!wpn egg
* Qboid
gives egg a particle diapsid
<iximeow>
wait that's an UmbralRaptop
<iximeow>
!wpn UmbralRaptop
* Qboid
gives UmbralRaptop a cobolt mountain
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<kmath>
<alercah> @bofh453 I was hoping for an extensive discussion about correct kerning, whether to place a space before or after,… https://t.co/xw0ggvh7tj
<egg|zzz|egg>
!wpn bofh
* Qboid
gives bofh a halogenated squeeze /kick
<egg|zzz|egg>
!wpn whitequark
* Qboid
gives whitequark an isenthalpic wave
<bofh>
egg|zzz|egg: yep, I saw.
<egg|zzz|egg>
bofh: the EU styleguide is *weird* tbh
<egg|zzz|egg>
no spaces before :, ;, !, ?, in french? wtf
<egg|zzz|egg>
«this» is at least a thing in fr-CH
<egg|zzz|egg>
but I think they aim for a mostly consistent style accross languages hence the weird :;!? spacing
<bofh>
I think it's b/c my brain treats units as modifiers attached to the digits they modify, and putting a space between them makes it more seem as separate wors.
<bofh>
words*
<bofh>
wors*
<bofh>
fuck you keyboard
<bofh>
anyway this is moot since I fix all of that in any document I submit anywhere :P
<egg|zzz|egg>
bofh: also 72h sounds like it's hexadecimal, and 1l like it's a long literal :-p
<bofh>
okay I can see the latter, lol.
<egg|zzz|egg>
bofh: anyway, the appropriate thousand separator is a space so units being closer to the digits than they are to each other would be silly :-p
<egg|zzz|egg>
SI style ftw :-p
<egg|zzz|egg>
(also comma best decimal mark)
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<bofh>
no, decimal point is best decimal mark :P
<egg|zzz|egg>
(okay I don't actually care about the comma)
<egg|zzz|egg>
but if you use , for thousands separation I will be very very angry
<egg|zzz|egg>
because I misread that *all the time*
<e14159>
1,000% angry?
<bofh>
I use space whenever I need to do thousands separation, which honestly is rare
<kmath>
<✔NHC_Atlantic> NHC will initiate advisories at 11 AM EDT / 10 AM CDT on Subtropical Storm Alberto located over the northwestern Caribbean Sea.
* egg|zzz|egg
stares at 𒀭𒁕𒃶
<egg|zzz|egg>
wait should I decline that
<e14159>
After I spent today telling a master's student that his current "related study" is a mild catastrophe - and his experimental results are similar - he asked me whether I believed we could publish that as a paper. o_O
<egg|zzz|egg>
e14159: I mean, it's good to know about negative results, but,
<egg|zzz|egg>
the journal of mild catastrophes
<egg|zzz|egg>
j. mild catastr.
<e14159>
egg|zzz|egg: I agree, results falsification is good. OTOH, the main falsified hypothesis was "that student can competently implement an algorithm from a paper".
<e14159>
j. stud. catastr.
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<bofh>
LOL
<egg|phone|egg>
!Wpn bofh
* Qboid
gives bofh a Shannon rocket
<bofh>
!wpn egg|zzz|egg
* Qboid
gives egg|zzz|egg an expressed Durandal/ear hybrid
<egg|zzz|egg>
!wpn whitequark
* Qboid
gives whitequark a praesiodymium nitrate
<egg|zzz|egg>
!seen котя
<Qboid>
egg|zzz|egg: I haven't seen the user котя yet.
<kmath>
<teaberryblue> Hey financial planning experts: if you don’t start offering realistic financial advice for people who cannot save a… https://t.co/0xvoXdaub4
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<Ellied>
oh damn, new csb video. I'll have to watch that when I'm not on train wifi.
<kmath>
<✔Alex_Parker> @AstroKatie The worst is getting to the bottom of something widely treated as canon and finding “we more or less made this up.”
<bofh>
YEP YEP YEP
<awang_>
Sorry, got dragged into a reaalllllly long meeting
<awang_>
It's a 2D packing problem
<awang_>
The main thing that appears to set it apart from what I googled is that the elements have restrictions on where they can be located
<awang_>
So if I were trying to pack into a square on a Cartesian plane, one of the objects always has to be centered on x = 10, another object has to be at least 2 units away from y = 0, etc
<awang_>
They're irregularly shaped and I have a sinking feeling that the cost function is going to make this even more interesting, but first thing's first
<awang_>
I could find stuff on irregularly shaped things at least
<SnoopJeDi>
maybe "restricted bin problem" or some-such
<awang_>
Already tried that
<awang_>
There's a SO question on a variant where certain elements are limited to certain bins
<SnoopJeDi>
so wait, the domain wall is irregular, or the elements are?
<SnoopJeDi>
wall(s)
<awang_>
The elements
<awang_>
Domain wall is a rectangle
<awang_>
Er
<awang_>
The domain is rectangular
<awang_>
So that part of the 2D packing problem is the same at least
<SnoopJeDi>
hm, dunno what I'd search for beyond adding restricted or irregular.
<awang_>
Actually, now that I think about it I might be able to get away with having everything cost the same
<awang_>
Hmmm
<SnoopJeDi>
awang_, how irregular are they? would optimizing a friendier convex hull be acceptable?
<SnoopJeDi>
friendlier, even.
<awang_>
Most of them are rectangular
<awang_>
Some of them look like dumbbells
<awang_>
But that's it from what I can remember
<awang_>
They can probably be optimized to rectangles
<SnoopJeDi>
okay, but would that be an acceptable redefinition of the problem? I.e. do you want a true global minimum, or?
<SnoopJeDi>
could also possibly anneal without the hulls afterwards if you want truly close packing but that's getting off into daydreaming.
<awang_>
I actually haven't asked about how good they want the answer to be
<awang_>
I'd guess it may be a high bar, because someone has to do this manually right now, and they spend quite a bit of time trying to pack everything together
<SnoopJeDi>
can you share the problem domain, or is it too private?
<awang_>
I think it's generic enough?
<awang_>
Basically need to cut samples from a larger piece
<awang_>
Different samples have different shapes
<SnoopJeDi>
reminds me of truck packing
<SnoopJeDi>
except that's usually very rectilinear shapes
<awang_>
Some samples need to come from certain locations because the original material has some features of interest that we want to capture
<awang_>
Truck packing as in the board game thing?
<SnoopJeDi>
no as in I am a business with a truck and how do I pack the truck
<SnoopJeDi>
given the restrictions X, Y, Z of what stops I will make on my route in what order and the size/number of packages per order
<kmath>
<kylepulver> link to the past randomizer now somehow includes super metroid, I guess? what is even the next step beyond this. en… https://t.co/QM3I21iUGW
<egg|zzz|egg>
bofh: ah so they too have 72 h to notify the supervisory authority of the data breach,
<kmath>
<andrewrstine> HELL YES @Ghostery JUST SENT ME A GDPR EMAIL WITH FIVE HUNDRED EMAIL ADDRESSES CC'ED ON IT!! THANKS GHOSTERY!!!! https://t.co/y0Xas28wd1
<egg|zzz|egg>
!wpn коте
* Qboid
gives коте a man page
<egg|zzz|egg>
!wpn whitequark
* Qboid
gives whitequark a wolf
<egg|zzz|egg>
whitequark: how do you decline whitequark
<whitequark>
just whitequark
<egg|zzz|egg>
whitequark: huh, doesn't that get ambiguous in a language with cases?
<whitequark>
dunno seems fine so far
<egg|zzz|egg>
whitequark: also, any котяpics?
<whitequark>
mmm i need to ask printer
<whitequark>
my camera is bad
<whitequark>
it's dirty from the inside.
<egg|zzz|egg>
hm
* egg|zzz|egg
should visit коте one of these days
* egg|zzz|egg
should also pet ANBOcat, it's been a while
<egg|zzz|egg>
s/е/ю/
<Qboid>
egg|zzz|egg meant to say: /me should visit котю one of these days