egg|nomz|egg changed the topic of #kspacademia to: https://gist.github.com/pdn4kd/164b9b85435d87afbec0c3a7e69d3e6d | Dogs are cats. Spiders are cat interferometers. | Космизм сегодня! | Document well, for tomorrow you may get mauled by a ネコバス. | <UmbralRaptor> egg|nomz|egg: generally if your eyes are dewing over, that's not the weather. | <ferram4> I shall beat my problems to death with an engineer.
<bofh> egg|zzz|egg: so the only sane definition of metal imho is "Is a Fermi liquid at sufficiently low, but not necessarily zero temperature"
<egg|zzz|egg> also, I've found the GDPR surprisingly readable?
<egg|zzz|egg> (yes somehow I've read bits of the thing for no good reason)
<bofh> egg|zzz|egg: and the only sane definitions of glass are an amorphous solid state/broadly amorphous within an overall semicrystalline lattice, or highly pure crystals of methamphetamine hydrochloride
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<egg|zzz|egg> bofh: "the only sane definition of metal" < you forgot the astronomical one
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<kmath> <whitequark> oxygen is a metal https://t.co/dCD8tQyEVa
<bofh> ah yes, the three genders: hydrogen, helium, metals,
<egg|zzz|egg> :D
<bofh> Also the mean free path for electrons in amorphous metals is very low, which tends to give them relatively high resistivities.
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<egg|zzz|egg> "The Commission shall be assisted by a committee."
<kmath> <bofh453> One day I aspire to reach the level of typography pedantry as exemplified by https://t.co/EhTR6roOmd, a website lit… https://t.co/ypX4HpxnAk
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<kmath> <bofh453> One day I aspire to reach the level of typography pedantry as exemplified by https://t.co/EhTR6roOmd, a website lit… https://t.co/ypX4HpxnAk
<egg|zzz|egg> french punctuation is fun
<bofh> YES, I had no idea that even was a document but at the same time I am 0% surprise.
<bofh> surprised.*
<egg|zzz|egg> bofh: there's a typo on that site: Longitude -64.692307 is equal to 64°° 41' 32.3052'' W. (64 degrees West)
<egg|zzz|egg> bofh: there's a section about the degree sign in the Lexique, I'll tell you what you should do in french typography tomorrow :-p
<egg|zzz|egg> bofh: it even has a section on mathematical typesetting!
<egg|zzz|egg> as you may know the french convention differs from the anglo-saxon one
<egg|zzz|egg> bofh: in french, greek lowercase and capital latin are upright, not italic
<bofh> wait, Greek lowercase is Italic?
<egg|zzz|egg> (whereas the anglo-saxon tradition typesets them italic, which is why the tex default is greek lowercase italic)
<egg|zzz|egg> bofh: no, it's roman
<bofh> Yeah that's what I thought.
<egg|zzz|egg> it's italic in english
<egg|zzz|egg> but in french it's upright
<bofh> also fuck that shit, that's why I have to redefine \epsilon as \varepsilon to get a usable epsilon.
<egg|zzz|egg> and then in ISO it's upright if it's a standard symbol :D
<egg|zzz|egg> bofh: but the epsilon vs. varepsilon thing isn't about italics though
<egg|zzz|egg> it's about a symbol with two glyphs, but that's orthogonal to italicization
<bofh> why is the default the bullshit form?
<egg|zzz|egg> !u εϵ
<Qboid> U+03B5 GREEK SMALL LETTER EPSILON (ε)
<Qboid> U+03F5 GREEK LUNATE EPSILON SYMBOL (ϵ)
<egg|zzz|egg> blame Knuth?
<bofh> yes, the Lunate Epsilon is the bullshit form
<egg|zzz|egg> indeed
<egg|zzz|egg> !u Εεϵ϶𝚬𝛆𝛦𝜀𝜠𝜺𝝚𝝴𝞔𝞮
<Qboid> egg|zzz|egg: Too many characters! (Maximum: 10)
<egg|zzz|egg> !u Εε𝚬𝛆𝛦𝜀𝜠𝜺𝝚𝝴𝞔𝞮
<Qboid> egg|zzz|egg: Too many characters! (Maximum: 10)
<egg|zzz|egg> bofh: anyway Εε𝚬𝛆𝛦𝜀𝜠𝜺𝝚𝝴𝞔𝞮 are non-bullshit
<egg|zzz|egg> but french will use ε whereas english will use 𝜀
<egg|zzz|egg> bofh: \mathbs{\epsilon} % ϵ
<egg|zzz|egg> bofh: also the Lexique shows parentheses that don't scale to match exponents or parentheses (so that (((((((x))))))) has all parentheses of the same size), which I managed to emulate in TeX eggstremely tediously :-p
<egg|zzz|egg> it's prettier tho
<egg|zzz|egg> \left \right produces ridiculously oversized parentheses if you have subscripts or superscripts
<bofh> yeah, but I find that visually groups things more nicely for me even if it seems visually worse
<bofh> s/visually/aesthetically/
<Qboid> bofh meant to say: yeah, but I find that aesthetically groups things more nicely for me even if it seems visually worse
<bofh> ..
<egg|zzz|egg> :D
<bofh> the other way around, Qboid
<bofh> is semtex a TeX fork or something?
<egg|zzz|egg> nah it's my package
<bofh> (yes I know the canonical semtex is RDX + plasticizer)
<bofh> so I expanded that commit message and I see Lie Groups
<egg|zzz|egg> aptly named because 1. it tries to have semantic aliases for everything even if they look the same 2. it does the weirdest things (redefines ^ and _ so that they don't make brackets scale and other entertaining tricks) and will likely blow you up if you are not expecting it
<egg|zzz|egg> bofh: but hey look at those fancy stretchy integral signs which I'm somehow using to delimit a giant matrix :-p
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<egg|zzz|egg> bofh: of course there are Lie groups
<egg|zzz|egg> what did you expet
<egg|zzz|egg> s/.$/ct
<Qboid> egg|zzz|egg meant to say: what did you expect
<egg|zzz|egg> bofh: did you expect to look at something and not see Lie groups
<bofh> touché
<bofh> also rofl Haar Integrals are the GREATEST
<egg|zzz|egg> bofh: where?
<bofh> Nice!
<egg|zzz|egg> whitequark: https://twitter.com/whitequark/status/999806173451714560 are they actually deprecated? they're CJK-specific and using them outside of a CJK context *is* terrible, but they only decompose NFKC to degree sign C, not NFC like Ohm etc.
<kmath> <whitequark> @bofh453 ok but it uses the deprecated ℃ and ℉ characters so it's actually terrible.
<whitequark> I think they are
<whitequark> but I'm not sure
<egg|zzz|egg> it certainly makes no sense outside CJK so this site has no business recommending them without a big caveat, but they might still make sense in a CJK context
<bofh> I'm 95% sure they are, I recall seeing this in the context of the U+3380 - U+33FF block which is also deprecated.
<bofh> and yeah I mean also inside a CJK context, iirc the only thing they should be used for is direct mapping from JISX0208 or w/e when anything more sane is hard.
<whitequark> yep
<whitequark> it's for roundtripping
<whitequark> everything else can be handled with font ligatures
<egg|zzz|egg> yeah a lot of stuff is there for that
<egg|zzz|egg> who explicitly marks them as deprecated though
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<egg|zzz|egg> because unless NF[CD] does something to them, they're interchangeable and normalized
<egg|zzz|egg> they don't seem to have the "use of this character is discouraged" in the Unicode charts either
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<egg|zzz|egg> bofh: whitequark: see the inherent vowels U+17B4 and U+17B5 for discouraged characters https://unicode.org/charts/PDF/U1780.pdf compare with https://unicode.org/charts/PDF/U3300.pdf
<bofh> ROFL I JUST GOT A GDPR EMAIL FROM PHYS REV B
<bofh> also Springer and Nature, separately (which is even more perplexing as I don't have accounts on either, at least with PRB I reviewed a lot for them once).
<whitequark> egg|zzz|egg: I'm pretty sure that entire block is discouraged
<egg|zzz|egg> I mean it's called CJK Compatibility so I guess it says so in the title
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<whitequark> We vent a lot of gas -- more than a cubic meter of helium gas per second throughout the entire flight.
<whitequark> groooosss
<egg|zzz|egg> https://unicode.org/charts/PDF/U2100.pdf this one has legitimate characters though, and no special mention next to degree celsius
<egg|zzz|egg> !wpn whitequark
* Qboid gives whitequark a sufficient hole with a catbus attachment
<egg|zzz|egg> should I sleep
<UmbralRaptop> !choose sleep|sleep
<Qboid> UmbralRaptop: Your options are: sleep, sleep. My choice: sleep
<UmbralRaptop> ;choose sleep|sleep
<kmath> UmbralRaptop: sleep
<UmbralRaptop> Seems obvious enough.
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<whitequark> !choose sleep|peels
<Qboid> whitequark: Your options are: sleep, peels. My choice: peels
<whitequark> ;choose sleep|peels
<kmath> whitequark: peels
<whitequark> egg|zzz|egg: re U2100, huh, I haven't realized it's a different block
<whitequark> I guess they're okay then
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<egg|zzz|egg> whitequark: honestly the degree celsius thing feels eggstremely odd and is *probably* a compat thing?
<egg|zzz|egg> but it's very hard to know the reasons for encoding in Unicode 1.x
<egg|zzz|egg> I guess I could ask mark davis what he thinks of U+2103
<egg|zzz|egg> hm I think he's on vacation at the next i18n monthly lunch
<egg|zzz|egg> !u ℃
<Qboid> U+2103 DEGREE CELSIUS (℃)
<egg|zzz|egg> whitequark: honestly from a practical standpoint using ℃ seems to trigger font fallback to serifed fonts in sans-serif contexts so it seems like a bad idea
<egg|zzz|egg> but then that's consistent with a lot of CJK stuff so maybe it's fine?
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<kmath> <DragonsofWales> Small but (sort of) deadly. ⏎ Just a few weeks old, this little dromaeosaur is already practicing its hunting skills… https://t.co/ZlW9K9xW9d
<egg|zzz|egg> smol birb
<egg|zzz|egg> !u ※
<Qboid> U+203B REFERENCE MARK (※)
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<SilverFox> have a meme
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<kmath> <nika_desert> Well u can tell by the way I use my walk ⏎ I'm a science-led cat, no time 2 talk ⏎ Music loud & lava warm, I've been ki… https://t.co/89x8bnMCOd
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<xShadowx> so watching the movie braveheart, william wallace slaughtering the english, you know how it goes ;p and i startyed to wonder, why didnt the english just get in cars and mow down the scotts?
<egg|zzz|egg> !wpn UmbralRaptop
* Qboid gives UmbralRaptop a delta function
<egg|zzz|egg> !wpn bofh
* Qboid gives bofh a contravariant Kusanagi-like gantlet
<egg|zzz|egg> !wpn whitequark
* Qboid gives whitequark a tetrapod gradient
<iximeow> !wpn egg
* Qboid gives egg a particle diapsid
<iximeow> wait that's an UmbralRaptop
<iximeow> !wpn UmbralRaptop
* Qboid gives UmbralRaptop a cobolt mountain
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<egg|zzz|egg> !u °
<Qboid> U+00B0 DEGREE SIGN (°)
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<egg|zzz|egg> bofh: I may have been nerd-sniped into looking at the spacing around degrees https://twitter.com/alercah/status/999816674332282881
<kmath> <alercah> @bofh453 I was hoping for an extensive discussion about correct kerning, whether to place a space before or after,… https://t.co/xw0ggvh7tj
<egg|zzz|egg> !wpn bofh
* Qboid gives bofh a halogenated squeeze /kick
<egg|zzz|egg> !wpn whitequark
* Qboid gives whitequark an isenthalpic wave
<bofh> egg|zzz|egg: yep, I saw.
<egg|zzz|egg> bofh: the EU styleguide is *weird* tbh
<egg|zzz|egg> no spaces before :, ;, !, ?, in french? wtf
<egg|zzz|egg> «this» is at least a thing in fr-CH
<egg|zzz|egg> but I think they aim for a mostly consistent style accross languages hence the weird :;!? spacing
<egg|zzz|egg> !u ´
<Qboid> U+00B4 ACUTE ACCENT (´)
<egg|zzz|egg> WTF
<egg|zzz|egg> bofh: the swedish style uses acute accents as the third level of quotation marks?!?! http://publications.europa.eu/code/sv/sv-360400.htm
<egg|zzz|egg> wait no it's struck out in http://publications.europa.eu/code/sv/sv-240203.htm
<bofh> I mean I've seen acute accents used for that purpose before.
<egg|zzz|egg> bofh: I mean, I've also seen ' and ", but in a typographical guide it seems odd
<egg|zzz|egg> bofh: and they've now struck it out too
<egg|zzz|egg> bofh: the third level should use the same as the second
<bofh> that seems unnecessarily confusing tbqh
<egg|zzz|egg> bofh: yeah but using a third level is discouraged anyway
<egg|zzz|egg> bofh: I mean, en only has 2 levels so it would make things messy to translate :-p http://publications.europa.eu/code/en/en-360400.htm
<egg|zzz|egg> oh the rules for English are "Any further levels are repeats of levels 1 and 2.
<egg|zzz|egg> "
<bofh> egg|zzz|egg: I *often* find myself needing to use a third level and am stuck repeating level 1 b/c nesting the same level is hard to read imho.
<egg|zzz|egg> bofh: use French! we have 3 levels http://publications.europa.eu/code/fr/fr-360400.htm#anb
<egg|zzz|egg> bofh: Bulgarian only has one level? Ꙩ_ꙩ http://publications.europa.eu/code/bg/bg-360400.htm
<egg|zzz|egg> bofh: hungarian also has three http://publications.europa.eu/code/hu/hu-360400.htm
<egg|zzz|egg> also hungarian doesn't use a space before the % even though they mandate one in english?
<bofh> I've never put a space before %, that rule always annoyed the heck out of me
<egg|zzz|egg> bofh: I mean I'm not sure whether that rule is a thing in english?
<egg|zzz|egg> (the EU styles are very different from actual national styles)
<egg|zzz|egg> bofh: it certainly is a thing in french
<egg|zzz|egg> bofh: okay the SI says space https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Percent_sign#Spacing
<egg|zzz|egg> (and so does ISO)
<egg|zzz|egg> it's a unit!
<egg|zzz|egg> (and it's not the degree which is magic)
<bofh> WTF
<bofh> okay I guess % being a unit designator actually makes a lot of sense in retrospect.
<egg|zzz|egg> bofh: it's really the angle units that are magic, in that they'd look silly without a space :-p
<egg|zzz|egg> s/without/with/
<Qboid> egg|zzz|egg meant to say: bofh: it's really the angle units that are magic, in that they'd look silly with a space :-p
<egg|zzz|egg> !u 🦛
<Qboid> U+1F99B (🦛)
<bofh> Honestly I think *all* units look weird with a space
<bofh> To the point where I've gotten yelled at for not putting one where it is typographically needed.
<egg|zzz|egg> bofh: wat?!
<egg|zzz|egg> you omit units before even units whose symbols are letters!?
* egg|zzz|egg glares at bofh
<bofh> no, not the units, the SPACES
<bofh> omitting units would be evil
<egg|zzz|egg> yes I meant to type spaces, I should zz :-p
<egg|zzz|egg> but, like, 1729m seems horrifying :-/
<bofh> I think it's b/c my brain treats units as modifiers attached to the digits they modify, and putting a space between them makes it more seem as separate wors.
<bofh> words*
<bofh> wors*
<bofh> fuck you keyboard
<bofh> anyway this is moot since I fix all of that in any document I submit anywhere :P
<egg|zzz|egg> bofh: also 72h sounds like it's hexadecimal, and 1l like it's a long literal :-p
<bofh> okay I can see the latter, lol.
<egg|zzz|egg> bofh: anyway, the appropriate thousand separator is a space so units being closer to the digits than they are to each other would be silly :-p
<egg|zzz|egg> SI style ftw :-p
<egg|zzz|egg> (also comma best decimal mark)
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<bofh> no, decimal point is best decimal mark :P
<egg|zzz|egg> (okay I don't actually care about the comma)
<egg|zzz|egg> but if you use , for thousands separation I will be very very angry
<egg|zzz|egg> because I misread that *all the time*
<e14159> 1,000% angry?
<bofh> I use space whenever I need to do thousands separation, which honestly is rare
<egg|zzz|egg> good bofh
* egg|zzz|egg pets bofh
<egg|zzz|egg> e14159: aaaaaa
<kmath> <✔NHC_Atlantic> NHC will initiate advisories at 11 AM EDT / 10 AM CDT on Subtropical Storm Alberto located over the northwestern Caribbean Sea.
* egg|zzz|egg stares at 𒀭𒁕𒃶
<egg|zzz|egg> wait should I decline that
<e14159> After I spent today telling a master's student that his current "related study" is a mild catastrophe - and his experimental results are similar - he asked me whether I believed we could publish that as a paper. o_O
<egg|zzz|egg> e14159: I mean, it's good to know about negative results, but,
<egg|zzz|egg> the journal of mild catastrophes
<egg|zzz|egg> j. mild catastr.
<e14159> egg|zzz|egg: I agree, results falsification is good. OTOH, the main falsified hypothesis was "that student can competently implement an algorithm from a paper".
<e14159> j. stud. catastr.
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<bofh> LOL
<egg|phone|egg> !Wpn bofh
* Qboid gives bofh a Shannon rocket
<bofh> !wpn egg|zzz|egg
* Qboid gives egg|zzz|egg an expressed Durandal/ear hybrid
<egg|zzz|egg> !wpn whitequark
* Qboid gives whitequark a praesiodymium nitrate
<egg|zzz|egg> !seen котя
<Qboid> egg|zzz|egg: I haven't seen the user котя yet.
<egg|zzz|egg> !wpn котя
* Qboid gives котя an analytic arrow
<kmath> <teaberryblue> Hey financial planning experts: if you don’t start offering realistic financial advice for people who cannot save a… https://t.co/0xvoXdaub4
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<Ellied> oh damn, new csb video. I'll have to watch that when I'm not on train wifi.
<kmath> <blokatt> Nice try, Tumblr. https://t.co/J4VHCrGxOc
<bofh> lmfao
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<UmbralRaptop> As an astronomer, I very strongly approve of this term. https://twitter.com/SuperScienceGrl/status/999979927985369088
<kmath> <SuperScienceGrl> I'm an ångströtechnologist.
<SnoopJeDi> a definitely real thing, unlike nanoscience
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<awang_> Anyone here familiar with bin packing problem variants?
<awang_> Got a problem here that I want to say is a bin packing problem, and I'd like to find papers on it
<awang_> But I don't know what terms to search
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<egg|cell|egg> Meow
<SnoopJeDi> awang_, perhaps if you describe the problem in some greater detail, someone can offer input
<SnoopJeDi> even if it's just "look up X"
* UmbralRaptop watches Google Slides display a PPTX file with b0rken formatting.
* UmbralRaptop pointedly stares at Fischer and a P-value of 0.05. https://twitter.com/Alex_Parker/status/1000083655979548672
<kmath> <✔Alex_Parker> @AstroKatie The worst is getting to the bottom of something widely treated as canon and finding “we more or less made this up.”
<bofh> YEP YEP YEP
<awang_> Sorry, got dragged into a reaalllllly long meeting
<awang_> It's a 2D packing problem
<awang_> The main thing that appears to set it apart from what I googled is that the elements have restrictions on where they can be located
<awang_> So if I were trying to pack into a square on a Cartesian plane, one of the objects always has to be centered on x = 10, another object has to be at least 2 units away from y = 0, etc
<awang_> They're irregularly shaped and I have a sinking feeling that the cost function is going to make this even more interesting, but first thing's first
<awang_> I could find stuff on irregularly shaped things at least
<SnoopJeDi> maybe "restricted bin problem" or some-such
<awang_> Already tried that
<awang_> There's a SO question on a variant where certain elements are limited to certain bins
<SnoopJeDi> so wait, the domain wall is irregular, or the elements are?
<SnoopJeDi> wall(s)
<awang_> The elements
<awang_> Domain wall is a rectangle
<awang_> Er
<awang_> The domain is rectangular
<awang_> So that part of the 2D packing problem is the same at least
<SnoopJeDi> hm, dunno what I'd search for beyond adding restricted or irregular.
<awang_> Actually, now that I think about it I might be able to get away with having everything cost the same
<awang_> Hmmm
<SnoopJeDi> awang_, how irregular are they? would optimizing a friendier convex hull be acceptable?
<SnoopJeDi> friendlier, even.
<awang_> Most of them are rectangular
<awang_> Some of them look like dumbbells
<awang_> But that's it from what I can remember
<awang_> They can probably be optimized to rectangles
<SnoopJeDi> okay, but would that be an acceptable redefinition of the problem? I.e. do you want a true global minimum, or?
<SnoopJeDi> could also possibly anneal without the hulls afterwards if you want truly close packing but that's getting off into daydreaming.
<awang_> I actually haven't asked about how good they want the answer to be
<awang_> I'd guess it may be a high bar, because someone has to do this manually right now, and they spend quite a bit of time trying to pack everything together
<SnoopJeDi> can you share the problem domain, or is it too private?
<awang_> I think it's generic enough?
<awang_> Basically need to cut samples from a larger piece
<awang_> Different samples have different shapes
<SnoopJeDi> reminds me of truck packing
<SnoopJeDi> except that's usually very rectilinear shapes
<awang_> Some samples need to come from certain locations because the original material has some features of interest that we want to capture
<awang_> Truck packing as in the board game thing?
<SnoopJeDi> no as in I am a business with a truck and how do I pack the truck
<SnoopJeDi> given the restrictions X, Y, Z of what stops I will make on my route in what order and the size/number of packages per order
<awang_> Ah
<awang_> Hmmm
<awang_> Seems I have a cutting-stock problem
<awang_> Just with the additional restriction of location
<SnoopJeDi> oh like from a sheet?
<SnoopJeDi> yea, that sounds right
<awang_> Yeah
<awang_> Oh the magic of actually knowing what terms to google
<SnoopJeDi> huh. "In fact, a deterministic finite state [regex] automaton is acyclic if and only if it recognizes a finite set of strings."
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<egg|zzz|egg> !Wpn UmbralRaptor, bofh, whitequark, et al.
* Qboid gives UmbralRaptor, bofh, whitequark, et al. a Pauli interhalogen
<UmbralRaptor> !wpn egg|zzz|egg
* Qboid gives egg|zzz|egg an irritating tesselation
<egg|zzz|egg> whitequark: is your nose better?
<egg|zzz|egg> whitequark: also your cat
<egg|zzz|egg> your cat's nose
* UmbralRaptor gives whitequark nanoshivs to stab sinusitis.
<whitequark> lol nanoshivs
<whitequark> !wpn egg
* Qboid gives egg a Newtonian falconet
<UmbralRaptor> The missiles are actually in a server room in the Czech Republic, but yes. https://twitter.com/kylepulver/status/1000136313788510209
<kmath> <kylepulver> link to the past randomizer now somehow includes super metroid, I guess? what is even the next step beyond this. en… https://t.co/QM3I21iUGW
<egg|zzz|egg> bofh: ah so they too have 72 h to notify the supervisory authority of the data breach,
<kmath> <andrewrstine> HELL YES @Ghostery JUST SENT ME A GDPR EMAIL WITH FIVE HUNDRED EMAIL ADDRESSES CC'ED ON IT!! THANKS GHOSTERY!!!! https://t.co/y0Xas28wd1
<egg|zzz|egg> !wpn коте
* Qboid gives коте a man page
<egg|zzz|egg> !wpn whitequark
* Qboid gives whitequark a wolf
<egg|zzz|egg> whitequark: how do you decline whitequark
<whitequark> just whitequark
<egg|zzz|egg> whitequark: huh, doesn't that get ambiguous in a language with cases?
<whitequark> dunno seems fine so far
<egg|zzz|egg> whitequark: also, any котяpics?
<whitequark> mmm i need to ask printer
<whitequark> my camera is bad
<whitequark> it's dirty from the inside.
<egg|zzz|egg> hm
* egg|zzz|egg should visit коте one of these days
* egg|zzz|egg should also pet ANBOcat, it's been a while
<egg|zzz|egg> s/е/ю/
<Qboid> egg|zzz|egg meant to say: /me should visit котю one of these days
* egg|zzz|egg stabs egg in the grammar