<FLHerne>
which tbf does look just like the less successful kind of KSP rocket
<transhohmann>
t really does
<transhohmann>
*it
<transhohmann>
that was not my least favorite version of levan polkka
<FLHerne>
I haven't heard another version, but it seems catchy
<transhohmann>
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SuCohvn0wqA this is my favorite version, technically it's both leval polkka and the wellerman, but the wellerman is basically a parody of levan polkka
<SporkWitch>
i'm very confused right now, i have a level 3 tracking station and a constellation of RA-15s around duna, how the heck am i losing connection on my probe?
<SporkWitch>
i'm just outside ike's SOI, and i'm between ike and duna... i show clear links to three of the commsats...
<transhohmann>
strange
<SporkWitch>
.... could an asteroid actually occlude the commsats from kerbin? (i have constellations around minmus and the mun, so it's not those occluding it)
<FLHerne>
Shouldn't, there's a bit of fuzz
<FLHerne>
I think it was 5° or something?
<SporkWitch>
should be, i can't imagine how i'm not connected...
<SporkWitch>
i haven't seen anything in the mods i have that should mess with that ....
<FLHerne>
You're not just intermittently running out of power or something...?
<SporkWitch>
rofl, no
<SporkWitch>
i'm running a liquid metal cooled reactor to power this probe, and i haven't deployed any of its instruments yet, it's literally a nuclear reactor running an okto2 and SAS lol
<SporkWitch>
ike is on the far side of duna from the sun, so it's not ike between the commsats and kerbin (not that that should be possible with this constellation)
<transhohmann>
oh yeah that'll be out of power in a quick thousand years or so
<SporkWitch>
1769 years
<transhohmann>
closer to the "or so," then
<SporkWitch>
FLHerne: you should just be able to see the icon for the KSC right by the persistent rotation window. using RA-15s on the satellites here, RA-2s around kerbin. So far as I understand the formulas (and according to the guides) this should be overkill (the guides call for RA-2s around both, but I didn't trust it so I went with 15's, which are supposed to have reach to duna as long as nothing
<SporkWitch>
it went in and out randomly on the trip out, but i just chalked it up to time warp wonkiness
<SporkWitch>
literally the only thing i can think of is that somehow an asteroid could block the path. i timewarp a day or two and wham, even though kerbin is farther away, i have a connection again...
<SporkWitch>
it's quite problematic right now, as even with partial control, i have an absurd TWR right now; even an instant of full thrust is going to be too much lol
<FLHerne>
I can't remember, can you set the engine thrust limiter in that state?
<SporkWitch>
i didn't think to try. i lucked out and whatever the occlusion was passed by the time i needed to make that capture burn
<SporkWitch>
i did set it to only have the KSC station, not the extra ground stations, but for that reason i did the full 6 satellites (3 equatorial, 3 polar) around kerbin, another three polar each around mun and minmus. there literally can't be anything that would occlude the path unless kerbin were on the other side of the sun (at which point the sun, eve, and moho could potentially occlude it)
<FLHerne>
I can't think of anything wrong with that, but tbh I don't do much with CommNet
<FLHerne>
my usual thing is just to stick one of the biggest antenna yet available on each probe I send out, and usually that means I have a connection when I need it :p
<SporkWitch>
i'll sometimes overbuild stages, but most stuff i try to do efficiently heh
<transhohmann>
I like a nice dish on my craft
<FLHerne>
Yeah, it's aesthetic
<SporkWitch>
especially my first and second stages, especially with FAR heh. if you can't quite get the weight or aerodynamics right, just burn through the lower atmo until FAR's power is weakened
<SporkWitch>
don't get me started on the aesthetics, i'm infurated that the relay dishes are all poopy looking fixed dishes. all the good looking ones are direct only, which i rarely need
<FLHerne>
also, IRL it's not as if NASA have a communications network around Mars, they just use random science orbiters as relays
<FLHerne>
The fixed dish is the most elegant antenna in the game :-(
<transhohmann>
I have mods that add a couple of larger folding reflectors
<SporkWitch>
i like folders
<transhohmann>
I like an hg-88 and the biggest reflector I can reasonably use
<SporkWitch>
the 88 is definitely one of the coolest
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<SporkWitch>
the only other thing i can think of is that KSPI added like a solar flare mechanic or something. i literally can't think of anything that could have caused the connection loss
<SporkWitch>
when it's connected it has a 72% path to the KSC, then it just cuts entirely
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<transhohmann>
which visual mods should I add
<transhohmann>
I can't tell what anything is, I liked that at least about curse forge, I culd see what i was getting
<transhohmann>
could
<SporkWitch>
depends on your specs. I use planetshine, EVE, and realplume. Waterfall looks MUCH better than realplume, but certain of its effects MURDER my performance
<SporkWitch>
(and there's no rhyme or reason; other engines with similar effects are fine, but certain engines go from no effect on FPS to 2FPS just adding one more engine)
<SporkWitch>
Distant Object Enhancement is also really good, as it does non-physics rendering of things from further away, can even see other planets from the surface of planets (i saw duna and eve from the surface of minmus! they looked like slightly brighter, coloured stars!)
<SporkWitch>
not sure how CPU or RAM heavy they are, I assume they're all mostly GPU-bound, and assuming that, i get 15FPS on the ground, 30-45 in space, with a GTX1060
<SporkWitch>
I find that very comfortable and playable for KSP, more than worth the graphics improvements
<transhohmann>
rtx2070
<SporkWitch>
give all the ones I mentioned a try, but try waterfall first, before realplume
<transhohmann>
I'm not sure how to check my fps on ksp
<SporkWitch>
waterfall is freaking GORGEOUS
<SporkWitch>
do you run the steam version?
<transhohmann>
and an amd ryzen 7 5800x
<transhohmann>
I don't
<transhohmann>
I plan to soon
<SporkWitch>
so the steam overlay can show FPS. if you have steam, you can add the game as a non-steam game and it'll let you use the overlay
<transhohmann>
also recoeding would be a lot easier on steam
<transhohmann>
I've been avoiding researching aerodynamics, should I changge that, orshould I use my science for better things
<SporkWitch>
with transmitting science, do you need to keep it as the active vehicle, or can i set it transmitting and then go somewhere else?
<transhohmann>
That's what I want to know
<transhohmann>
I'd like to have a craft with 4 storage modules and antennae that i can launch towards kerbin to transmit when they come within range
<transhohmann>
or just attach parachutes and let them re-enter on their own with the chutes rigged to open at 800m so I can recover them later
<SporkWitch>
those are definitely viable, though you'd still have to switch to them once they are in range, or to deploy the chutes during reentry
<SporkWitch>
if you aren't in physics range, and it's not on an IMPACT trajectory (according to the stock game, not mods that calculate atmospheric drag to plot an impact from a suborbital, non-impact trajectory), then it doesn't experience atmospheric effects.
<SporkWitch>
this has annoyed me a few times when i made a point of using some fuel to put things in proper decaying orbits so my trash would burn up. months later, it's still there, because even with a 20km periapsis on kerbin, if i'm not in physics range of it, the air doesn't affect its orbit
<transhohmann>
mmuuuggghhmibbbnuggget
<transhohmann>
obnoxious
<transhohmann>
;mission add You make a tomato and noodle snack, then accidentally substitute TS-06 stack separators for noodles.
<LunchBot>
transhohmann: Added mission: You make a tomato and noodle snack, then accidentally substitute TS-06 stack separators for noodles.
<LunchBot>
XXCoder: You try to make models using a blender set to puree. A pile of viruses is unexpectedly dumped onto Mission Control.
<transhohmann>
what
<transhohmann>
is that a surface scan
<transhohmann>
it doesn't look like kerbin
<SporkWitch>
(the mod is the scansat one i mentioned earlier; the sensors have different fields of view, so you have to put the satellite in a proper orbit to actually ensure it gets to see every part of the planet or moon over time, ideally without too much repetition over the same point)
<SporkWitch>
that's a visual map of Minmus
<transhohmann>
;mission
<LunchBot>
transhohmann: You try to find The Awnser. You don't see your rocket launch due to buffering.
<XXCoder>
the mint choculate ice cream moon?
<XXCoder>
ah yes
<transhohmann>
I have yet to see chocolate
<XXCoder>
some space monster ate those and left just mint
<transhohmann>
but yes, I made a joke earlier about licking tasty data off of minmus
<SporkWitch>
XXCoder: you take that back! the kraken is not a monster, just misunderstood!
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<transhohmann>
it's me, I'm the space nomster
<XXCoder>
how much does kraken pay you?
<transhohmann>
8 drachmas a week
<SporkWitch>
heh, the science report flavour text for the scansat modules are easily the best i've read, including the obvious minmus == mint icecream jokes
<XXCoder>
nomster lol
<SporkWitch>
XXCoder: doesn't have to, i fear FAR snapping my wings off far more lol
<SporkWitch>
it can integrate with or replace the stock resource scanners. i chose to use its methods instead of stock, since it takes time, instead of just magically revealing the resource map
<transhohmann>
thanks
<transhohmann>
also, seems logical
<transhohmann>
also, I can't find ckan on my pc now
<SporkWitch>
if you're on windows, it might not have automatically created an entry in your start menu, so you may have to navigate to where you installed it to run it
<transhohmann>
found it
<SporkWitch>
as far as how i set it (in the mod's settings GUI in-game), i disabled instant resource scan and intentionally haven't deployed any m700 survey scanners to be safe, but i didn't disable stock resource scanning entirely, because i'm not clear on how that would affect things.
<transhohmann>
does anyone else find it slighlty obnoxious that matt lowne pronounces mun wuth a short U sound? There is clearly an umlaut over the u in the starting menu
<SporkWitch>
not really; i think it does it as a mix of his accent and making clear he's talking about the mun, not the moon.
<SporkWitch>
plothole detected: how did the kerbals develop nuclear technology when there's not a gram of uranite on kerbin? :P
<XXCoder>
SporkWitch: no gram of city too
<transhohmann>
it's all in underground facilities
<XXCoder>
space program and closed base is only artifical buildings
<transhohmann>
we're only seeing a fraction of their colony
<XXCoder>
or kerbin is no planet
<SporkWitch>
i support the "kerbals are subkeranian" hypothesis; they're green, like 40k Orks, thus fungus; fungus like dark
<transhohmann>
precisely
<transhohmann>
what's dark at night? the sky
<transhohmann>
what's always dark, for a given value of dark? space
<SporkWitch>
transhohmann: have you... never looked at the sky miles from any city?
<transhohmann>
ok ok it was a stretch
<SporkWitch>
it's hard these days, as cities spread like the cancer they are, but when i was growing up i still remember actually being able to see the milky way with the naked eye :'(
<transhohmann>
I miss Montana
<transhohmann>
it's bright on moonless nights
<SporkWitch>
NH for me; i'm currently trapped in one of the most malignant tumors in the US: new york
<transhohmann>
oh
<transhohmann>
my condolences
<SporkWitch>
could be worse, it could be australia
<transhohmann>
lmao
<transhohmann>
there is one good place to be in australia
<SporkWitch>
(or venezuela, or cuba, or china, or north korea...)
<SporkWitch>
a plane leaving? lol
<transhohmann>
700 miles from the nearest person, that's the ticket
<SporkWitch>
lol
<transhohmann>
even if you have to "crash a lot of boosters" to get that space
<transhohmann>
lol
<transhohmann>
waterfall core by chris adderley?
<SporkWitch>
sec, let me find what you want, and it'll install the rest
<SporkWitch>
waterfall core doesn't include the configs; if you select the configs instead, it'll install all the dependencies (typically shortened to "deps")
<transhohmann>
pretend I wasn't allowed to use a computer until 6 years ago lmao
<SporkWitch>
so you'll want to select "stock waterfall effects"; also "waterfall - restock" if you use the restock mod; that'll install core and anything else it needs (why i recommend CKAN, since it resolves and installs dependencies for you)
<transhohmann>
I'm using ckan
<transhohmann>
I only see one Waterfall under W
<transhohmann>
and it's Waterfall Core
<SporkWitch>
So waterfall by itself is just the TOOLS to apply the effects, it doesn't actually apply the effects. You need config files that say what effects to use on what engines.
<transhohmann>
ah
<SporkWitch>
search "waterfall" and you should have three results
<transhohmann>
and how do I get those
<transhohmann>
also planetshine is installed but i saw no effect
<SporkWitch>
it's subtle. it makes it so there's some reflected light off the planet or moon you're orbiting. Think the same principle that lets you see on a moonlit night: that's reflected light from the sun lighting up the landscape so you can see. Planetshine does the same, any light hitting the planet is reflected back. It's not a huge spotlight, it's subtle. Most notable is the colour of the light,
<transhohmann>
that's what I mean
<SporkWitch>
which will be influenced by the planet (since the colour a planet looks is the colour of light that's reflecting off of it)
<transhohmann>
I was blind on the backside of the moon
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<SporkWitch>
if the backside of the moon was currently facing away from the sun, that's expected. it doesn't make planets glow, it makes it so that the sun's light hitting them is actually reflected (or at least simulated to be) providing SOME light to the side of your ship that's facing the planet, with you between the sun and the planet
<SporkWitch>
oh, these will show it even better. taken as close together as i could. First is the sun-facing side (no change with PS on or off), second is the kerbin-facing side with PS on, then with it off.
<SporkWitch>
So as I said, it's fairly subtle, but noticeable, IF there's light hitting the thing you're orbiting, at the right angle.
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<SporkWitch>
if you notice a slightly brighter brownish star between the butt of the ship and the sun, that's Moho lol
<SporkWitch>
(it's visible because of that distance mod i mentioned earlier)
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<transhohmann>
that is better than mine
<transhohmann>
how do I install restock if there is no check box
<transhohmann>
I have stock waterfall effects, and waterfall core
<SporkWitch>
that's probably because it doesn't list the current version as supported. you can edit compatible versions in settings -> compatible versions
<SporkWitch>
note that overriding that can be buggy, since the mod hasn't been tasted against newer ones
<transhohmann>
now it won't let me install it at all
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<sheeep>
hey there
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<Althego>
"hello there"
<transhohmann>
GENERAL KENOBI
<NGC3982>
yes?
<transhohmann>
how would I maximize delta v for a missionto duna wih early to midgame parts
<transhohmann>
best I can do with a kerbal is 4500dv which rises to 5500 AFTER MY FISRT TWO STAGES FALL AWAY
<transhohmann>
oops sacpe
<NGC3982>
"oh, with 18 months, nothing else on my plate, no other jobs, no women, no distractions... maybe."
<transhohmann>
caps*
<transhohmann>
missed that one
<transhohmann>
removed waterfall because I didn't like the new look for the fuel tanks and parachutes
<transhohmann>
you know what would be interesting, is Ooo from Adventure time as a planet in the system
<transhohmann>
;mission
<LunchBot>
transhohmann: You forget to check yo' staging. You end up 40 km from the closest manned facility with an unconscious crewmate and 10 hours of air in your spacesuits.
<transhohmann>
;mission
<LunchBot>
transhohmann: You refueled your craft with soda pop instead of liquid fuel. You aren't afraid of heights, but bloody terrified of the ground.
<transhohmann>
Hey, a Pratchett reference.
<transhohmann>
;mission
<LunchBot>
transhohmann: You race the sun in an ion glider. You are kicked by UmbralRaptor.
<transhohmann>
;mission
<LunchBot>
transhohmann: Your hype train exceeds 88 miles per hour. You arrive in version 13.3. Your KSP install is Cursed.
<transhohmann>
;mission
<LunchBot>
transhohmann: You capitalize an all lower-case name. Forum trolls go on a diatribe against woman astronauts AGAIN.
<transhohmann>
lmao
<NGC3982>
:(
<transhohmann>
why so sad
<NGC3982>
as much as that is funny, it's also a sad reality
<transhohmann>
Spongebob, me boi
<NGC3982>
female kerbonauts doesn't get any slack
<transhohmann>
my 3 primary pilots are Val, Jeb, and Lagerbin
<transhohmann>
a female kerbonaut with the best stats I have seen
<transhohmann>
a liver of stupidity and all the courage you can pack into a kerbal
<transhohmann>
*sliver
<transhohmann>
a liver of stupidity is alcoholism
<Althego>
the vogon brain is a disfigured liver
<Mat2ch>
transhohmann: But Ooo is Earth after something ripped a part off it.
<Mat2ch>
And I guess Adventure Time is some kid imagening friends, while wandering alone on the broken planet :D
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<transhohmann>
I hate that lol
<darsie>
haters gonna hate :)
<darsie>
Whatever you hate :).
<transhohmann>
I can't find anything canon about that
<transhohmann>
taters gonna tate
* darsie
just joined.
<transhohmann>
ih
<transhohmann>
Mat2ch said that the rest of the characters in adventure time were in Finn's head
<darsie>
hmm, ok.
<transhohmann>
HMM
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<transhohmann>
;outcome add This proves difficult, as your rockets are all gummed up inside.
<LunchBot>
transhohmann: Added outcome: This proves difficult, as your rockets are all gummed up inside.
<transhohmann>
;mission
<LunchBot>
transhohmann: You realize the engineers in the VAB and SPH aren't actually doing anything productive. The enusing mayhem is even worse than it seems at first, due to distortion from the Doppler Effect.
<transhohmann>
;mission
<LunchBot>
transhohmann: You give the nuclear lunch codes to an IRC bot. The R&D facility "mysteriously" explodes.
<transhohmann>
lol
<transhohmann>
;mission
<LunchBot>
transhohmann: You clear away the junk parts nobody touched in 3 years. You conclude that jet engines can live on Laythe.
<transhohmann>
;mission
<LunchBot>
transhohmann: You launch an epic mission destined to bring the Magic Boulder back to Kerbin. You successfully test rocket the fire.
<transhohmann>
;mission
<LunchBot>
transhohmann: Your mission, if you choose to accept it, is to kill every kerbal in one titanic explosion. You are dismayed to find the Easter egg you just discovered in KSP is only a regular scenery object.
<transhohmann>
;mission
<LunchBot>
transhohmann: You add a mission to kmath with a nice round index. In theory, the mission is a complete success!
<XXCoder>
probility is very low, theres literally thousand outcomes inleast
<bees>
transhohmann: You deploy a probe to analyze the static interference caused by certain asteroids. Your trajectory ignites for no clear reason.
<FLHerne>
;outcome add You will be consumed by its trajectorial instability.
<LunchBot>
FLHerne: Added outcome: You will be consumed by its trajectorial instability.
<transhohmann>
I know
<transhohmann>
I quite enjoy this bot though
<bees>
technically, all those indexes are int
<transhohmann>
;mission lunch
<LunchBot>
transhohmann: You give the nuclear lunch codes to an IRC bot.
<bees>
and therefore round
<transhohmann>
;mission
<LunchBot>
transhohmann: You put a plane inside your plane so you can crash while you crash. The physics engine does not properly compute the collision of your ship and Kerbin. You fly straight through and begin your next mission.
<transhohmann>
that tracks
<bees>
transhohmann: You code an IRC bot that responds with hilarious combinations of mission and outcome when prompted. You've used this command too much and the universe collapses.
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<SporkWitch>
transhohmann: waterfall doesn't do anything to tanks or parachutes, it's solely engine effects...
<SporkWitch>
restock reskins things like the science gear, parachutes, etc.
<SporkWitch>
it sounds like you installed the restock config file, which also installed restock. you should have installed the "stock waterfall effects" entry from knightofstjohn in ckan; that will cover the core game (any parts added by mods typically include their own configs for waterfall and realplume so you don't need to worry about those)
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<NGC3982>
megaHAL is a classic
<NGC3982>
i wonder if markov chains is abandoned in light or recent machine learning stuff
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<darsie>
Can you upload pics here? https://postimages.org/ I get "Invalid JSON response from server."
<Althego>
kikkerikii
* flayer
slaps Althego
<Althego>
at least do it wit ha large trout
<Althego>
or maybe with a red herring
<darsie>
Please avoid animal products and fossil fuels.
<Althego>
they could be alive
<SporkWitch>
and delicious
* flayer
slaps Althego with a huge dinosaur feather
* sandbox
slaps 1337 with a large trout
<SporkWitch>
anyone know anything that could cause both pitch controls to ONLY pitch in one direction relative to target? i press w or s, both pitch down. i rotate 180°, now they both pitch up... control point hasn't been changed. exited to menu and checked controls, i'm mapped properly...
<SporkWitch>
hmmm... must be something with the mod that adds the construction docking ports... it only does it when i control from the construction port...
<darsie>
SporkWitch: attitude hold seems to hold less if you press attitude control keys.
<SporkWitch>
no, literally i hold the key and i'm looking at the pitch control indicator, both keys do the same thing lol
<darsie>
Like, if I pitch up an aircraft during attitude hold and then release, it tilts back a bit, but stays there, which increases as the craft flies aROUND Kerbin. If I pitch up a short moment, it drops down again.
<SporkWitch>
yeah, not what i'm talking about
<darsie>
ok
<SporkWitch>
i'm trying to dock in orbit, and BOTH PITCH KEYS ARE PITCHING THE SAME DIRECTION
<SporkWitch>
literally can't make it any clearer. it seems to be something with the construction docking ports. i change to control from another module and it behaves normally
* flayer
slaps SporkWitch
<flayer>
honestly its a compulsion to type it whenever i open the irc window
<SporkWitch>
get over the compulsion, it's rather annoying, and mentions for no reason are generally considered quite rude
<flayer>
lol we'll see
<darsie>
SporkWitch: Check your key definitions?
<darsie>
Press alt-F4?
<SporkWitch>
literally said i did that
<SporkWitch>
disable SAS and it suddenly applies full pitch and row and random yaw...
<SporkWitch>
something is freakin' possessed
<SporkWitch>
*roll
<sandbox>
press the any key
<SporkWitch>
>_< FAR flight assist stayed on in space >_<
<SporkWitch>
well that was 20 minutes of infuration
<SporkWitch>
*infuriation
<darsie>
.
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<Mat2ch>
transhohmann: it is a very disappointing explanation ;)
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<SporkWitch>
well that was a nightmare to dock, but should also be the last thing i have to dock that's big. just launched and docked my orbital assembly line and orbital workshop, and now have them attached to my LKO station
<SporkWitch>
from now on i only have to launch containers of parts and can build the new additions in orbit :)
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<packbart>
you'll find different problems, soon ;) the assembly and construction works but I had problems with background processing (same as with converters, though). when switching back to the station, the engineers suddenly realize that they've run out of EC and stopped work
<SporkWitch>
that's what the molten salt reactor is for :P
<SporkWitch>
even if that does happen, though, timewarping through the construction is still less headache than lifting megastructures into orbit and then docking them lol
<packbart>
same with stock fuel production, though. switch back to it, only to find out that by catching up, the small ore tank was filled and nothing produced
<packbart>
ack, it is
<SporkWitch>
??
<SporkWitch>
packbart: do the workshops and assembly lines work with the Mechanic and/or Technician classes, or only stock Engineer?
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<packbart>
SporkWitch: cascaded convertes need large buffers in between. the whole chain runs when you switch back to it. if the ore buffer can't hold all the ore the diggers produced in the meantime, the converters won't have much to process
<SporkWitch>
ah
<packbart>
SporkWitch: don't know. they do work with the engineer class (more stars -> faster production)
<SporkWitch>
so none of the "tiniest tank you can find" like you'd do on a self-refueling SSTO
<packbart>
yes. I've seen people "cheat" it by patching the small tank to have very large capacity, so they can pretend that it works continously
<SporkWitch>
yeah, stock classes i know for certain work. I'm reading the wiki and it simultaneously implies technicians can and can't lol
<SporkWitch>
honestly i find it mildly annoying you need the separate tank at all; i should be able to dump it right into the smelter lol
<SporkWitch>
i've also realized i need explicit recyclables storage, since despite the message saying "mechanical parts were lost" (which i have plenty of storage for), it really means recyclables were lost lol
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<sheeep>
hello again
<raptop>
floof detected
<packbart>
panic!
* raptop
assumes that the panic is from non-feline floof
<SporkWitch>
feline floof = best floof
<SporkWitch>
also best toebeans
<raptop>
🐱
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<packbart>
well, ok, the panic-y stuff is FOOF, not floof
<packbart>
dioxygen difluoride
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<raptop>
Nah, FOOF is too unstable to be scary. Now something you can produce in multiple-ton quantities like ClF3 or diborane...
<SporkWitch>
foof is awesome, though lol
<SporkWitch>
don't forget mercury-based rocket fuels, either; remember that one that killed someone because ONE DROP passed through the latex gloves?
* raptop
presse F to pay respects to Karen Wetterhahn
<bees>
but then you could do stuff like 542 isp on chemical fuel...
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<SporkWitch>
packbart: i'm not finding how to convert recyclables to materialkits
<SporkWitch>
i don't see any options on the orbital workshop or assembly lines
<SporkWitch>
i've now tried three different container types set to recycleables and none of them work, the kits from disassembly just go poof. so far the only thing that has worked is the tundra workshop... so apparently i should have sent that up instead of the orbital workshop...
<SporkWitch>
so apparently eva disassembly only works with the tundra stuff from what i can find. if you use the workshop's recycler tool, it does work for its internal storage, but you have to navigate through the craft's tree to find the part. At least I don't have to orbit another huge assembly lol
<Althego>
as she sjust said it the second time now
<Mat2ch>
they will keep the landing in, hopefully.
<Mat2ch>
I'm here for the landing. :D
<Althego>
everybody
<darsie>
.
<Althego>
t-10 sec
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<SporkWitch>
no boom today
<Althego>
i was waiting for it too
<SporkWitch>
i'm still really mixed on starlink. it just feels like so much orbital clutter
<SporkWitch>
i'm also very skeptical of the wired-equivalent latency claims, as someone that spent 6 1/2 years working on milspec satcom systems...
<Althego>
they are closer than others. and propagation in glass, but vacuum
<Althego>
but i think it will be still a bit slower
<SporkWitch>
so standard commsats you're looking at around 500ms round-trip latency, at minimum. you can go with closer orbits for less latency, but that requires non-trivial tracking equipment, since it's no longer going to be geostationary
<Althego>
and that is why they have problems with the production of the antennas
<SporkWitch>
satellite's great for broadcasting stuff, not so much for sending stuff back. It's why every satellite internet product literally uses dial-up or DSL for the upstream connection.
<Althego>
at least for now
<Althego>
but elon never cared for the established norms
<SporkWitch>
i don't see it changing unless you literally clutter teh sky with so many birds you don't need to move the dish to always hit one...
<Althego>
jsut because it was always so doesnt mean it needs to stay that way forever
<Althego>
and that is exactly what he wants to do
<SporkWitch>
granted, and i totally respect taking chances and trying something new, he just hasn't won me over on starlink, because of my background in the relevant technologies
<Althego>
kind of a jerk move to be honest
<SporkWitch>
another reason i have issues with starlink lol
<Althego>
what i hav seen from it, the latency is kind of ok. the problem is there are too few satellites
<SporkWitch>
meanwhile we're still having to dodge the perpetual shotgun blast from the CCP blowing up that satellite in violation of a whole bunch of treaties
<Althego>
hehe, for a second imagined an company in iceland having a anti-satellite weapon in a volcano :)
<SporkWitch>
trust me, as someone that played eve for over a decade, the initials being the same gives me a chuckle, too lol
<SporkWitch>
though in fairness it's "CCP" the company and "The CCP" the genocidal tyrants bent on world domination that will likely be invading taiwan and seizing control of 60%+ of the global semiconductor industry before the end of the year
<raptop>
Relatedly, it was slightly surprising to get on an icelandic airline and notice that there were food prices in isk
<Althego>
hehehe
<SporkWitch>
there's a reason EVE chose ISK for its currency: icelandic kronar AND InterStellar Kredits :P
<Althego>
veldspar is feldspar :)
<SporkWitch>
now what'd be really funny is if iceland started printing as much money as the US is, so that EVE ISK becomes a more stable and valuable currency than RL ISK lol
<SporkWitch>
it occurs to me that the stayputnik is very poorly named, given that it doesn't even have basic SAS, so it can't even make its attitude stay put lol
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<darsie>
On a flight to Eve, why can't I position my Eve flyby Pe in the equatorial plane at 90 km?
<flayer>
incompetence?
<Althego>
hehe
<darsie>
mhm
<Althego>
emotional damage :)
<darsie>
Should be possible with the departure and a single correction maneuver, right?
<flayer>
theoretically
<darsie>
Well, the maneuver planning is the theory.
<Althego>
but it may be so that your inclination nodes or whatever you call them, are in a position unaccessible during your flight
<darsie>
I'm at the planning stage.
<flayer>
you have to plan the maneuver at the little indicator that says how many degrees you are off
<SporkWitch>
ascending and descending nodes; that is, the relationship between your inclination and its inclination. Where you make your inclination burn is only arbitrary if the target inclination is around the thing you're currently orbiting
<flayer>
wait, maybe its not possible
<flayer>
i dunno how eve's equatorial plane works
<darsie>
I have an encounter. Even impact trajectories. But I can't get my Pe at 90 km in the equatorial plane.
<SporkWitch>
since EVE's orbit is inclined around the sun, you either have to make the burn at the ascending or descending node, or wait until you're around eve (at which point it's still best to either wait for an ascending or descending node, or if you don't mind some eyeballing, you can really cheese it by just killing your orbital velocity at the edge of the SOI and then just making your orbit what you
<flayer>
is the equatorial plane of eve aligned with its eccentric orbit?
<SporkWitch>
want it to be
<SporkWitch>
that's what i did around duna and ike yesterday to place my survey satellites
<darsie>
Well, I use the Eve orbital plane.
<SporkWitch>
overall it cost less dV than doing it the "right" way
<Althego>
i thik in base game all planets havethe same axis
<SporkWitch>
yeah, i don't think there is any axial tilt
<Althego>
so anyway what would usually happen to me, that the node is after my encounter with eve, so not accessible any time during the flight to eve, hence the inclination cannot be eliminated the cheap way
<flayer>
like, if eve spins in the same way that kerbin does, then you can't get an equatorial orbit by coming in with a single maneuver from kerbin, unless you do so at an angle that doesn't require eccentricity in your maneuver node
<flayer>
like, you'll have to launch from kerbin, then orbit around kerbol until you hit eve without adjusting your plane
<flayer>
so only when it intersects eve by itself - at one or the other position
<darsie>
I don't do a full plane change. In fact, by chance I happened to launch near a node and got an encounter without correction maneuver. This makes me come form above/below.
<flayer>
then you need to go with the blue strings
<flayer>
iirc
<flayer>
like ,go sideways lol
<SporkWitch>
you could theoretically time your departure so that you arrive when EVE is at the same inclination to kerbol as kerbin, but that's going to be a really hard target to hit
<flayer>
its hard cause i don't know the terms
<SporkWitch>
i tried doing similar to ike last night, so i wouldn't have to do an inclination burn, or not as much of one. Made a good 5 tries, and the margin was just way too tight
<darsie>
Hmm, I forgot about sideways. Jut used pro/retrograde and (anti)normal...
<SporkWitch>
(polar orbit around duna then fly to ike without going equatorial first)
* darsie
tries ...
<flayer>
yeah, sideways -- hit eve earlier or later
<flayer>
make a bigger or smaller arc around kerbol
<flayer>
good grief, i hate having to express myself in language
<flayer>
alright, time for alcohol
<SporkWitch>
if you circularize really close to the SOI edge, you can make really cheap plane changes. Literally stop your circularization burn when it's just barely inside the SOI, wait until you hit apoapsis, then you can make your orbit whatever you want for cheap. it takes a lot of time, but very little dV
<darsie>
SporkWitch: That won't change the long axis of the ellipse.
<SporkWitch>
darsie: set your encounter a couple million inside the SOI, this will ensure your ascending and descending nodes are nice and high up for a cheap plane change
<darsie>
No, my encounter Pe must be 90ish km to get maximum Oberth effect.
<darsie>
The sideways thing didn't work so far.
<darsie>
radial in/out.
<SporkWitch>
radial in/out adjusts your SMA
<SporkWitch>
(which has its uses)
<flayer>
darsie, i think you have to hit eve at the exact spot where its orbital plane intersects with kerbins orbital plane
<SporkWitch>
if you want to arrive in an equatorial orbit, yes; i just said that heh. that's a very narrow target, though
<flayer>
and you have to do it from the opposite end
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<flayer>
like, eves orbital plane intersects with kerbin in two locations, you have to be on the opposite end
<flayer>
that is the only way to do it in 1 maneuver
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<darsie>
Think. I come from above, Eve comes from behind. I should be able to come sooner or later by burning pro/retrograde somewhere, or go left/right/higher/lower. I don't have to depart at AN/DN.
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<darsie>
Hmm, no, I'm faster.
<darsie>
So I'm catching up to Eve.
<flayer>
you're never gonna be equatorial in 1 maneuver unless you do it at AN/DN
<bees>
^
<bees>
or, rather, you would never be equatorial and circular in 1 maneuver
<darsie>
I can correct (anti)normal, so I should cross the equatorial plane sooner or later.
<darsie>
flayer: I'm doing two maneuvers.
<darsie>
one about half way.
<darsie>
I just got an encounter with just the departure maneuver because I'm close to a node.
<transhohmann>
for an encounter, thsatellie coverage, or?
<transhohmann>
*the satellite coverage
<darsie>
Low, equatorial Pe for maximum Oberth effect for the capture burn and then a low dv plane change to equatorial.
<transhohmann>
I feel like there is always technically a margin for improvement but I have not seen better
<darsie>
Maybe not fully polar is a lower dv compromise.
* transhohmann
is in awe of darsie 's maneuver noding
<darsie>
Well, it took me hours.
<transhohmann>
I should thinks so
<transhohmann>
think
<darsie>
Cause I thought I could put Pe fully in the equatorial plane at 90 km.
<transhohmann>
I'm sorry I'm so wful at typing
<transhohmann>
awful
<transhohmann>
lol isn't that unwise
<darsie>
No, because I want a low equatorial orbit.
<SporkWitch>
technically it's possible, as previously mentioned, but it's threading a needle
<darsie>
Show me.
<darsie>
Sure, if I do a full plane change.
<darsie>
But not when coming that far from below.
<SporkWitch>
i don't have the maths for it. i can only express it logically (and not formal logic, don't worry). If you burn at 0° inclination from kerbin, you need to enter Eve's SOI just as you're at its equator. Since the game only simulates two-body physics, and since all planets' rotations are perfectly vertical, this will cause your orbital inclination when you enter the SOI to be 0° as well, and you
<SporkWitch>
just need to burn retrograde for capture; any devation at all will mean you're slightly incline.
<SporkWitch>
it only works because game mechanics
<SporkWitch>
and as i said, its' threading a needle
<darsie>
You feel so sure, but I think you're wrong.
<a_flayer>
did you do it?
<darsie>
No, I think it's impossible.
<darsie>
I did it good enough.
<a_flayer>
XD
<SporkWitch>
insanely improbable ≠ impossible. By the game's mechanics, it is technically possible. It just requires an absurd degree of precision. You could probably get mechjeb to pull it off, if you did the maths to figure out the requirements
<SporkWitch>
as i also said several times though, it's not really worth it; so many easy, inexpensive ways to correct the orbit once you get there.
<transhohmann>
or take 14 hours with teeny engines
<SporkWitch>
when you're at the edge of the SOI you're literally talking like 100m/s dV to go from any inclination to any other
<darsie>
SporkWitch: But if your Pe is at the south pole, you can't get to equatorial orbit cheaply.
<SporkWitch>
it doesn't matter. when you're at the edge of the SOI your orbital speed is like 50m/s
<SporkWitch>
i'm literally talking "hit the brakes and turn around"
<darsie>
And your Pe is still where it was, at the south pole.
<SporkWitch>
your worst case scenario is going to be something like 200-300m/s. 50 to kill your speed, 50 to put yourself at 90° inclination, wait to reach the equator, repeat. If you're already highly polar, it'll be a lot less dV to get to 90° to quickly get to the equator, then change the orbit
<SporkWitch>
i did this several times yesterday placing my satellites around duna and ike. it was easy and efficient (in fuel), just takes time because of the large orbit
<darsie>
Yeah, you could blow your orbit up to SOI.
<darsie>
Ap and Pe
<SporkWitch>
i needed them in polar orbits, so i made my capture burn JUST put me Ap inside the SOI, waited until AP, went polar. placed my satellites, put my orbit out near ike's, did the same again
<SporkWitch>
no need for both
<SporkWitch>
shift it the rest of the way to 90°, push it out a bit if needed for the ascending or descending node on the equator to be a decent distance out, then make your next burn there
<SporkWitch>
even with a 90km Pe and a 90° inclination, the nodes are still going to be far enough out to be cost effective on the plane change
<SporkWitch>
you can either fiddle with maneuver nodes to do it all at once, or you can be lazy and just put AP as far out as you can and burn at the nodes. The only real difficulty is because there's no way to see the ascending and decending nodes for the equator of what you're orbiting, so you have to eyeball it
<transhohmann>
that was a lovely exchange I must say
<darsie>
meh
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<transhohmann>
it went from sounding like a disagreement to sounding like a concurrence
<transhohmann>
amusing, right?
<SporkWitch>
you're young, you probably don't remember when it was normal for logic to win out
<darsie>
Only because I stopped disagreeing. It was annoying.
<transhohmann>
kind of
* SporkWitch
facepalms
<transhohmann>
I try to argue logically and the response is always "MY OPINION IS FACT"