raptop changed the topic of #KSPOfficial to: Kerbal Space Program official channel | KSP2 current (final?) version: 0.2.1.0 | Rules: http://tinyurl.com/KSP-Rules | Δv maps: https://i.imgur.com/CHVnEeE.png https://i.imgur.com/gBoLsSt.png | Backup channel is ##KSPOfficial on libera.chat
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<XXCoder> ;mission
<LunchBot> You go back in time to save the mother of the man who defeats the robot uprising. You fly to a wrong orbit.
<XXCoder> damn like superman, but less smart
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<sandbox> !mission
<LunchBot> Why do you always have more spare parts after fixing rockets? A boat is in the way, and everyone complains until its interference is dealt with.
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<Eddi|zuHause> i think that was the plot of terminator
<Eddi|zuHause> !mission
<LunchBot> Bill finds some unconnected cables and after some fiddling labels them "I don't know where these go". The ensuing fireball melts your GPU.
<Althego> currently starship launch is delayed to 12:50 utc
<Althego> about 99 minutes remaining
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<FLHerne> .mission add Jeb, Bill and Bob all leave the controls to eat dinner.
<LunchBot> Added mission: Jeb, Bill and Bob all leave the controls to eat dinner.
<FLHerne> .outcome 20 minutes later your ship crashes into a rock.
<LunchBot> No outcome found matching "20 minutes later your ship crashes into a rock.".
<FLHerne> .outcome add 20 minutes later your ship crashes into a rock.
<LunchBot> Added outcome: 20 minutes later your ship crashes into a rock.
<FLHerne> .mission fixup s/dinner./dinner, leaving a random greyshirt in charge./
<LunchBot> New text is: Jeb, Bill and Bob all leave the controls to eat dinner, leaving a random greyshirt in charge.
<darsie> ##space @ libera.chat
<Eddi|zuHause> i'd imagine that kind of thing happens regularly.
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<Eddi|zuHause> !mission
<LunchBot> Just to spite HAL, you ignore all of Jupiter's other moons and head straight for Europa with your lander. It is used by nefarious porpoises.
<FLHerne> so there is life under the ice sheet
<raptop> Note to self: they start pitching way before KSP players
<Althego> basically all rockets start pitching after clearing the tower. one reason is, if it explodes it shouldnt fall back to the launch pad
<Althego> booster splashed down now we have to wait for reentry
<FLHerne> raptop: KSP's airmosphere is weird
<Deddly> Wow what a launch
<FLHerne> it's Earth-like density/depth despite the planet's gravity being much lower
<FLHerne> also nonsensical drag mechanics
<raptop> They're less bad post-1.0, though still silly
<Deddly> I pitch right after launching. Works better for me
<raptop> Also, don't ask why Kerbin has a lower scale height than Duna
<FLHerne> .stupid state of matter
<LunchBot> "People always said the old placeholder was like flying in soup, but I disagree; it was like flying in some state of matter not currently known to man."
<FLHerne> the post-1.0 one is more soup-like
<Eddi|zuHause> if i turn too early i usually don't make it to space
<Deddly> I always try for a tiny bit of tilt to the east and then mostly let go of the controls with SAS turned off. If I got it right, it's a perfect gravity turn. I don't always get it right :)
<Mat2ch> there's an optimal profil. And you should be almost flat at 10 km for good efficiency
<Deddly> I have even done rockets that are tilted from the launch clamps
<Deddly> Mat2ch, atmosphere is still really thick at 10. Are you sure you don't mean closer to 20 or 30 km?
<Mat2ch> you are going rather fast at 10 km so you will travel to this layer rather quickly
<Deddly> Once you're going over 1,800 m/s at 10 km, parts are going to start "hot staging" from your rocket
<Mat2ch> that's too fast ;)
<Mat2ch> you have to throttle down!
<Deddly> The optimal launch includes throttling down for Max-Q even in KSP?
<Deddly> I was really surprised they pulled off the ocean landing of the booster even with one engine out and such a late landing burn
<Mat2ch> yes
<Mat2ch> you have to throttle back, because your TWR increases
<Althego> possibly not all engines were burning during landing
<Althego> i mean intentionally
<Althego> remember even falvon 9 with 1 engine is too light for that engine and twr is way above 1
<Deddly> They said on the stream that 13 engines would be lit for the landing burn, and there were only 12.
<Deddly> There was also one engine that shut down on the initial launch, and it just continued as if everything was perfectly nominal. It's been a great launch so far
<Althego> that is my problem with the lot of engiens approach. you have engine out capability, but you also have to use it every time
<darsie> I've throttled down to avoid overheating, I guess on KSP2, too.
<Deddly> Most of my time in KSP has been with spaceplanes. I discovered that a poking a large landing gear into the nose helps increase your maximum speed before thermally induced fireworks occur
<Deddly> Althego, you mean the added complexity increases the likelihood of one of the engines failing?
<Mat2ch> Althego: It looks like one engine exploded on shutdown, but they did some hovering for several seconds with three engines
<Deddly> Raptor is already enormous. Imagine the size of that thing if they were going to build one single engine
<Althego> Deddly: the more of x you have the less tour combined mtbs is
<Althego> mtbf
<Deddly> MTBF?
<Althego> mean time between failures
<Deddly> Ah
<Althego> i wish they would fix the cameras before rentry
<Mat2ch> still impressive what they are achieving here
<Mat2ch> starlink problems :D
<Deddly> I don't disagree. But if you think about SpaceX' long-term plan, any failure that results in loss of vehicle or failed launch would be much more serious than a few engines that don't work from time to time
<Deddly> Althego, even if one engine fails every, say, five launches, that would be one in 165. So if you were to have the same failure rate on a theoretical Starship booster that has one gigantic Sea Dragon-style engine, that would mean a loss of the entire stack every 165 launches on average. I would rather have moar boosters
<darsie> What's the Isp of rocket engines under water?
<Althego> how many merlin engines have failed? i remember one lately and that is why a booster didnt land, but nothing else come to mind
<Althego> so they can still do better on the reliability
<Althego> although it is not fair to compare the merlin to a raptor
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<raptop> F9F1 had a failure during ascent, so there were some secondary objectives that had to be dropped due to insufficient propellant IIRC
<raptop> But also, that was a *long* time ago
<FLHerne> Althego: three, I think
<FLHerne> on F9
<FLHerne> four if you count F1 flight 1
<Althego> anyway like hundreds of launches with 9 engines on the first stage and one failure
<FLHerne> five if you count the failed test relight in orbit on the first F9 v1.1 flight
<Althego> here it comes
<Althego> the flap bvurnt through
<Althego> still attached
<Althego> seems total success
<Althego> at was a naiul biter
<raptop> it *landed*
<Althego> like a movie
<Deddly> Wow that was totally kerbal
<Mat2ch> I'm speechless
<Deddly> I just can't get over the fact that we had a nearly constant feed all the way down, and the flap worked even after it has been burnt through
<Mat2ch> this...
<Althego> they were really lucky with that flap
<Althego> problably a few more seconds and it would have torn off
<Mat2ch> or completely burnt away
<Mat2ch> next flight the flaps will be reinforced
<Althego> the problem is the heat shield on a moving part
<Althego> i cnat imagine how they can fix it
<Mat2ch> more overlap maybe
<Deddly> Althego, "Probably a few more seconds..." I was thinking that the entire way down when all those sparks were flying off it
<Mat2ch> The sparks were burning metal, right?
<Althego> maybe blow some gas in the slit and not let the hot air in
<Althego> the pressurei s low so they could really just blow it away
<Mat2ch> I think they talked about that
<Althego> maybe from the pressurized tank
<Deddly> A crazy idea, but hear me out... how about perspiration cooling? ;)
<Mat2ch> spraying water on it? No, too crazy
<Deddly> Not water - fuel
<Althego> also starliner is docking
<Deddly> I.e., the original idea before they decided to go with tiles
<Althego> original idea was fuel evaporation cooling on the skin
<Althego> and i still say the tiles are stupid
<Mat2ch> has anyone really tried evaporating fuel on reentry?
<Althego> no
<Mat2ch> and will they try to recover the parts of the booster and ship that might have survived?
<Deddly> They never said they had any plans to recover anything
<Althego> they said they dont want to recover anything
<Mat2ch> So if something is swimming, someone with a shotgun has to get in a boat? :D
<Althego> maybe they depend on aggressive orcas which attack ships to sink it :)
<Deddly> Aren't they at all concerned that a third party could get hold of some of their hardware if it DOES float?
<Mat2ch> They are
<Mat2ch> also the FTS is still on there
<Mat2ch> so could be dangerous
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<Althego> meanwhile starliner docked
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<Althego> SpaceX's Starship Literally Melted! But It Kept Flying To A Miraculous Landing!
<raptop> Technically not the first time we've gotten video from a spacecraft for the entire way down, though the first time it was live I think
<raptop> Unrelated cool HST thing: https://arxiv.org/abs/2406.02808
<Althego> hehe, the granddady is still active
<raptop> HST has been in orbit for the majority of the space age o_O
<Althego> there is a plan forming for dragon to go up and repair it
<Althego> would be nice
<raptop> There are risks, but seeing as it's becoming increasingly inoperable, I'd expect them to be acceptable risks soon
<raptop> boulder boulder boulder https://arxiv.org/abs/2406.02892
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<Mat2ch> raptop: was there anytime a camera on the outside of a spacecraft reentering?
<raptop> As best I'm aware, this was the first time for an external camera
<raptop> Unless those Saturn V cameras that recorded stage separation count
<Althego> there was the previous test but that got destroyed without control
<raptop> hrm, maybe some silliness with Shuttle SRBs?
<Althego> there is indeed footage from the srbs all the way up and down
<Althego> but shoe never went up to orbital speed
<Deddly> There was a Falcon 9 fairing half with control surfaces and cameras on board. I think that counts as a spacecraft
<Mat2ch> In a very kerbal way you can see the hot staging ring in the background falling slower than the booster. Woah.
<Mat2ch> Deddly: true
<Mat2ch> uh, more helium leaks on Starliner
<Deddly> Starliner LAUNCHED with a helium leak, didn't it? I'm sure I read somewhere that they determined that it wasn't bad enough to scrub the flight
<raptop> So, do the astronauts actually have squeeky voices, or are the leaks all elsewhere?
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<Eddi|zuHause> !mission
<LunchBot> You hire Rube Goldberg to make your next rocket. Entropy wins in the end, most great and glorious things ultimately arrive at darkness and ruin, and that is no damn kind of reason to give up.
<Eddi|zuHause> that's the essence of every rube goldberg machine?
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<raptop> !mission
<LunchBot> You wonder what that weird clanking noise is in your engine. You knock over the launch tower.
<raptop> oops
<raptop> (Also, hey, that combination works!)
<Mat2ch> !mission
<LunchBot> You employ Kountdown to advertise your mission. The Mun breaks orbit to go fetch help.
<raptop> The Mun doesn't know about LunchBot
<Mat2ch> How nice of the Mun
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