08:15 <taniwha> stratochief: Starwaster: yeah, that's what I tried to achieve with EL's converter revamp

08:15 <taniwha> (or at least give a nod in that direction)

08:17 <Starwaster> I'm too tired to parse this properly but he's multiplying and dividing by 50 in a few places dealing with energy (joules) where it seems odd to do so...

08:34 <taniwha> 50 is very odd indeed

08:34 <taniwha> seriously, you're better off bypassing as much of his code as possible

08:48 <Starwaster> god dammit I KNEW it. There is something in the core heat code about how available radiator cooling is calculated that causes it to abort out in certain cases where core heat is above the target temp

08:51 <Starwaster> seems like it thinks the available cooling capacity is too low...

08:57 <Starwaster> taniwha I think he thinks that has to be done because of frame scaling... 1/50th of a second?

08:57 <taniwha> it should not be hard-coded :P

08:59 <Starwaster> no that's what delta time is for...

09:01 <Starwaster> that's why when I'm trying to configure this liquefier it keeps reporting required cooling as being 0... it's NOT 0 it just got scaled down so low that rounding made it look like 0. When you divide by 50 it's reporting 1/50th of the previous value. No idea what he's thinking there

09:01 <Starwaster> that's just a single frame's worth

09:03 <TheKosmonaut> RD doing something inexplicable?

09:03 <TheKosmonaut> No way

09:05 <Starwaster> DAMMIT here's my problem... core temperature HAS to be above part temperature.... I'm trying to mimic a cryogenic liquefication system so the core temperature is almost always below the part temperature

09:06 <Starwaster> Been strugglign with this for two days and it was staring me in the face the entire time

09:07 <Starwaster> maybe hack it by multiplying my core temps by a factor of 100....?

09:07 <Starwaster> thekosmonaut IKR???

09:09 <taniwha> Starwaster: or just not use CoreHeat

09:09 <taniwha> it's very RD-thinking specific

09:11 <Starwaster> it's the only stock way to have a converter produce heat. I don't want to have to make another plugin right now... unless there's something else in the RO dependency list that does that

09:28 <taniwha> there is much annoying hard-coding in there

09:28 <taniwha> fortunately, a lot of "virtual" too, but...

09:32 <Starwaster> yeah true I can override that, I did for ModuleActiveRadiators for a mod I'll be releasing soon that fixes some hard coded shit and for low level cooling has variable cooling or variable resource cost based on cooling efficiency equations

09:33 <Starwaster> but I just don't want to do yet another plugin right now just to fix shit

13:14 <Starwaster> bornholio: stratochief: ok, I've got some basic ISRU going here... some more fixing up of the configs needs to happen. I think I have a plan for making heat meaningful using CoreHeat, I'll just bump up operating temperatures by about 250 and that would put them within range of where they could go above ambient and that should let it push the heat to the radiators

13:18 <Bornholio> all written on lack of sleep :)

13:26 <Starwaster> sleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeep

13:27 <Starwaster> hmmmm. There's a Hydrates harvester but nothing to convert the Hydrates ...

13:57 <Bornholio> yeah its missing other functional stuff

13:58 <Bornholio> kind of like the state of real world ISRU

15:08 <Starwaster> can resource harvesters accept output resources or does it HAVE to be limited to the designated resource?

16:38 <Bornholio> starwaster it can look like this inside https://i.imgur.com/JCmsTRA.mp4

16:41 <Starwaster> bornholio: wtf is that? Are you trying to hypnotize me? Is that some kind of Pustulio sort of thing?

16:42 <Bornholio> all good questions

16:42 <Starwaster> yay, Mars ISRU Mk 3 landed...

16:43 <Starwaster> I think I'll have something to push today

16:44 <Bornholio> push mine and doktorjets too :)

16:44 <Starwaster> bornholio I included an H2 heater on some parts that need hydrogen so that you can bring it in liquid form.

16:44 <Bornholio> good idea

16:47 <Starwaster> ok so my prototyper has 5 intakes, two drills (for water/hydrates) to which I also added a hydrate->water converter since none exists in the mod. That can be a temporary solution or permanent... TBD

16:47 <Starwaster> also two Sabatier reactors and two liquefiers

16:48 <Starwaster> and finally two water electrolyzers

16:48 <Bornholio> yeah the mod has a butt ton of parts to do what seems to be a simple thing

16:49 <Starwaster> so far so good, hydrates are trickling in now, followed by water and finally on to O2/H2 gas

16:49 <Starwaster> actually I should turn off the electrolyzer so I can compare water intake

16:49 <Starwaster> NASA thinks it can get 33kg of water/day from the Martian regolith but that may be overly optimistic

16:50 <Starwaster> as with much of their Martian planning to date

16:50 <Starwaster> sigh

16:50 <Bornholio> wot! no all planning good, and as accurate as soviets

16:50 <Bornholio> oh wait

16:52 <Starwaster> I suspect most of the numbers in Real ISRU are fudged and I had to do the same with hydrates->water seeing as how I can't find decent data on the subject.

16:52 <Starwaster> I could go with the 33kg/day number and see how things match up so far...

16:52 <Bornholio> yeah given that the new data from this year is showing that most previous estimates were very poor

16:55 <Starwaster> I think I probably went WAY too optimistic... but I just kind of pulled a number out of my ass on that one... 1/3rd.

16:56 <Starwaster> closer to 1/10th do you think? Or is even that too optimistic?

16:56 <Bornholio> your ass is likely more accurate than most Kerbal efforts

16:57 <Bornholio> i think sub 10% is a good bet unless they land in a spot for only the resource

17:01 <Bornholio> can you include this for cryo https://i.imgur.com/un16tVa.jpg

17:04 <Starwaster> uhm whut?

17:07 <Starwaster> hmmm I do not know if this is a good area for hydrates or not.... but in 24 hours I produced 35.8 liters of water. So that's actually close to the NASA figure?

17:08 <Starwaster> aaaand I'm using about 1% of P238 per day. That cannot be right

17:08 <Bornholio> do you know what your ore input amount was?

17:08 <Bornholio> lol

17:08 <Starwaster> ore had to be 3x that much I reckon but since I was running them simultaneously....

17:08 <Bornholio> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z40AsPaktzw

17:09 <Bornholio> your gonna burn up the space modulartor a bit fast

17:12 <Starwaster> AND I think I solved the thermal relevancy in the liquefier.... core heat won't push heat out even if it's over the target temp if it's less than the part temp so I just bumped up my operating numbers by about 150K

17:12 <Starwaster> so it's above ambient but we pretend it's at cryogenic levels

17:13 <Starwaster> so if you don't have radiators or enough radiators then your liquefier won't liquefy as well

17:14 <Starwaster> and the penalty is based on refrigeration numbers that I calculated at about 20% of Carnot.

17:15 <Bornholio> can you divide that by 50?

17:16 <Starwaster> because why?

17:16 <Bornholio> make it roverdude compat

17:16 <Bornholio> sorry bad humor

17:16 <Starwaster> sigh

17:17 <Starwaster> kill you....

17:18 <Starwaster> ok, all ISRU process running.... now to let it sit here for a bit and see how it goes... make sure this is viable and reasonbly realistic

17:18 <Starwaster> except I probably should make that hydrate->water 10% shouldnt I?

17:22 <Bornholio> I'll try to drag in some sources for ya

17:52 <Bornholio> The data also indicate pockets of locally relatively high H2O concentration (8–10%) in near-equatorial regions where albedo is high and thermal inertia is low, suggestive of the possibility that some remnant ice, slowly receding from

17:52 <Bornholio> previous ice ages, might still remain near the surface. The equatorial regions with relatively high water content (8–10%)

17:54 <Bornholio> have a pdf but only dl links 9783642327612-c1.pdf

17:58 <Bornholio> https://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/20180002086.pdf has nice table with 2-18% H2o Abundance with updates from this last year

18:00 <Bornholio> has good temp data for extraction talks about easy to get low percent versus hydrates and surface ice mining

18:08 <Starwaster> stratochief: First Real ISRU pull request created.

18:09 <Bornholio> .tell him

18:09 <Bornholio> ah nm he did rejoin

18:13 <stratochief> Starwaster: I'm not presently playing KSP, let alone modding it or actively monitoring any repos. You should get a message regarding access to that repo

18:56 <Starwaster> stratochief when will I see this msg?

19:04 <stratochief> Starwaster: hmm. I assumed before I even stated that. It should go to the email you have set for your Github account

19:10 <Starwaster> stratochief yeah, for some reasno my gmail page wasn't refreshing

19:11 <stratochief> 'have ya tried turning it off and on again?' :P

19:11 <Starwaster> yay, first pull request merged

19:11 <Starwaster> stratochief: that didn't work so I put it in a box of rice :P

19:12 <stratochief> :)

20:26 <Rokker> Bornholio: that concept art <3 https://www.instagram.com/hangarb/

23:17 <xShadowx> if a spaceship had spinny bits for artificial grav, i wonder how quickly rotational speed could go up that crew wouldnt notice it, ie start at 1g at earth, months later be 2g when arriving at mars but crew still feels like its 1g as they slowly got stronger :)

23:17 <xShadowx> (ok 2g in a few months would be a bit much, but point made)

23:30 <soundnfury> xShadowx: but if you're going to Mars, why do you want that? Just for the aerobrake/entry?

23:30 <soundnfury> Mars, after all, has only .38g at the surface

23:31 <xShadowx> soundnfury: superhuman jump back into orbit! jk was just an example

23:32 <xShadowx> if its more sense, mars 0.38 slowly to earth 1 ;p

23:33 <soundnfury> if you want to be able to jump into orbit, just hop off the bus at Phobos :P

23:33 <soundnfury> yes, that version makes more sense (and is probably already in several SF novels)

23:33 <xShadowx> but thats still 2.5:1 over a couple months and bet crew would notice

23:33 <soundnfury> (I'd have to check but I think the Mars trilogy has it)

23:34 <soundnfury> oh, they'd notice, sure, but they'd notice a hell of a lot less than doing it all at once (or worse, going .38 -> 0 -> 1)

23:36 <xShadowx> i wonder if any government or shadow organisation has tried to put a human in a centrifuge for life, he grows up with 5g lol come out superhuman

23:37 <soundnfury> you know about great mambo chicken right?

23:37 <xShadowx> genertic engineering has been going on for thousands of years, tech is just now getting the power to step in, so i dont think its too much of a stretch

23:38 <xShadowx> theres a diff between public with a chicken, and shadow organisations ;p

23:48 <soundnfury> xShadowx: yes, I know

23:50 <soundnfury> btw http://yarchive.net/space/science/g_tolerance.html

23:51 <soundnfury> but yeah I think that if a govt _were_ to run a program like that, they'd fail to keep it secret

23:53 <soundnfury> (given that we know about stuff like the CIA LSD experiments)