10:41 <Rokker> Bornholio: the people on r/aviation are probably the single most frustrating group ive ever interacted with

10:41 <Rokker> https://www.reddit.com/r/aviation/comments/8is49j/i_had_no_idea_predator_drones_were_sooo_big/

10:41 <Rokker> literally cant read

14:16 <Starwaster> RO gives the price of liquid methane as (unless I'm converting wrong) $0.03 per liter. Even in 1950s currency isn't that a little too cheap? Three cents? (should make it 3.50 ...)

14:16 <Starwaster> (just kidding about that last part... obviously)

14:20 <Bornholio> https://www.eia.gov/dnav/ng/ng_pri_sum_dcu_SFL_m.htm LNG is pretty cheap, probably double for cleaned rocket grade, mybe more if nasa freaks out and requires higher purity

14:30 <schnobs`> "Rocket Grade" shouldn't be much of a problem.

14:31 <schnobs`> It's volatile enough, hard to hide any gunk in there (sulfur compounds and whatnot)

14:31 <Bornholio> actually that .03 is cheap compared to industrial cost input ~.14/liter

14:31 <Bornholio> since 1965-2018 = x6.77

14:31 <Bornholio> =.20/liter

14:32 <Bornholio> probably cheap for the era since LNG production efficiency is much higher

14:35 <schnobs`> Well, does it even matter in the 1960s? Have there been any Methane burners?

14:36 <Bornholio> from ignition "Oberth had originally wanted to use methane as fuel, but as it was hard to come by in Berlin, their first work was with gasoline and oxygen. Johannes Winkler, however, picked up the idea, and working independently of the VfR, was able to fire a liquid oxygen-liquid methane motor before the end of 1930. This work led nowhere in particular, since, as methane has a performance only slightly superior to that of gasoline, and is much

14:36 <Bornholio> harder to handle, nobody could see any point to following it up."

14:37 <schnobs`> Back then, methane was probaly "exotic".

14:38 <Bornholio> why handle a cryogen when you could use booze

14:41 <schnobs`> well, a bit later... RP-1 is pretty demanding of source and refinery.

14:42 <schnobs`> I always wondered why they never considered liquid gas -- propane/butane should have been easily available.

14:42 <Bornholio> starwaster is more focused on modern and post tech anyway,and liquid methane comes into its own as a nuclear and ISRU Propellant

14:44 <schnobs`> Yup. That was the direction of my former question: does it even exist as a rocket propellant before (say) y2k? On scale, I mean.

14:44 <schnobs`> Because if it virtually didn't exist in 1965, we don't need to worry about it's then price being too cheap.

14:47 <Bornholio> regardless good sources like EIA put it in that range of price for industrial consumers

14:48 <Bornholio> and given we have no methane engines before modern ones i think the price is valid

14:57 <schnobs`> ...which is what I was trying to get at.

14:57 <schnobs`> Who cares about a 1960 price if there's no 1960 consumer?

14:58 <Bornholio> RO/RP-0 are not just 60's but the price baseline is '65

15:56 <Rokker> Bornholio: LITERALLY CANT READ

15:56 <Rokker> Says global hawk 3 times in that picture

15:56 <Rokker> "look at this predator"

15:58 <Bornholio> lol

15:58 <Bornholio> yes

16:03 <Bornholio> but the global hawks carries far fewer weapons! MQ-1 more powerfull :P

19:26 <Starwaster> does anyone know what mod has ModuleDeployableEngine? I am discovering, apparently for the first time, that I don't have it and some of my parts require it?

19:32 <Bornholio> nerteas cryoengines requires it, and its his also

19:32 <Starwaster> that's what I thought but I can't find any mention of it in his git repositories and it's apparently not installed....

19:33 <Starwaster> not using cryoengines but I am using his nuclear pack

19:33 <Bornholio> its in his git for kerbal atomics

19:34 <Starwaster> I'll go look again....

19:34 <Starwaster> only seeing it mentioned in the part cfgs

19:34 <Bornholio> hmm

19:35 <Starwaster> no plugin source code there.... I'll check the downloaed file again, maybe I just didn't pull the plugin out

19:35 <Bornholio> https://github.com/ChrisAdderley/DeployableEngines/tree/master/GameData/DeployableEngines/Plugins

19:35 <Starwaster> well f*** me

19:36 <Bornholio> ckan points to the wrong place in meta

19:36 <Starwaster> not using ckan

19:38 <Bornholio> holy cow proc fairings has an update

19:39 <Starwaster> does it? I've been getting by with stock

19:39 <Bornholio> looks like it gots shoveled all the way to 1.4.3

19:45 <Raidernick> Bornholio, can you test https://github.com/KSP-RO/RealismOverhaul/pull/1883

19:45 <Qboid> [#1883] title: Change CoM shifter to new Adjustable CoM shifter | -Change all references to the old module over to the new one | https://github.com/KSP-RO/RealismOverhaul/issues/1883

21:16 <Starwaster> anyone remember what phase MM patches run in if a phase is not specified? Is it LEGACY or FIRST?

21:26 <Bornholio> All patches with :FIRST are applied.

21:26 <Bornholio> All patches without an ordering directive (:FIRST, :BEFORE, :FOR, :AFTER, :LAST, :FINAL) are applied.

21:26 <Bornholio> https://github.com/sarbian/ModuleManager/wiki/Patch-Ordering

21:27 <Bornholio> so its first, none, before, for after, final