ferram4 changed the topic of #RO to: Welcome to the discussion channel for the Realism Overhaul (meta)mod for KSP! Realism Overhaul Main Thread https://goo.gl/wH7Dzb ! RO Spreadsheet http://goo.gl/Oem3g0 ! Code of Conduct http://goo.gl/wOSv2M ! | Maximal & soundnfury's RP-1 Race Into Space Signup: http://bit.ly/2DEVm2i [15:01] <soundnfury> Straight Eight Stronk (and) RP-0/1 is basically "Space Agency Spreadsheet Simulator"
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<Bornholio>
thanks for teh release of RF blowfish
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<Starwaster>
bornholio there's no release for it (you meant the ISRU right?) but the files for the liquefier are up there
<Bornholio>
si
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<Starwaster>
my H2 meter is flickering but the LH2 was unwavering.... I thought for some reason maybe liquefaction had stopped but it hadn't.... as of right now, it is liquefying as fast as it boils off so the net gains/losses are zero
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<wb99999999>
hmm
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<wb99999999>
what's with CKAN
<blowfish>
Starwaster: it looks like the tank PAW mass display does not account for MLI layers
<Starwaster>
I implemented it entirely in GetModuleMass
<blowfish>
yeah, apparently the display calcs don't use that
<Starwaster>
pressureFed? I don't remember restricting that to flight only but IIRC the main reasno I added it was to facilitate verification that it was loading properly so I only paid attention to it in flight.
<blowfish>
sounds like there might not be a reason to keep it
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<blowfish>
Starwaster: I think the mass calculation needs to be implemented in CalculateMass() rather than in GetModuleMass()
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<blowfish>
Starwaster: actually did that pressure fed display even work? I didn't think properties worked with KSPField
<blowfish>
(in 1.4+ it causes exceptions which is what lead me to this, but earlier I think it would have just not worked)
<Starwaster>
pretty sure it was working, otherwise it would have been useless to me for testing
<blowfish>
odd
<Starwaster>
well what do you want to do, change it or take it out?
<Starwaster>
bornholio suddenly I feel the need to incorporate Lynx into Real ISRU
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<Bornholio>
.patonHead
<Bornholio>
make RP-1 conversion of parts!
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<Starwaster>
does anyone else read Large Hadron Collider as Large Hardon Collider? Or is it just me...?
<ProjectThoth>
Starwaster: I was sorely disappointed in the results of the LHC, let me put it that way.
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<TheKosmonaut>
Large Hardon Collider would be a good gay-bar name
<Starwaster>
someone needs to model NASA's Kilopower reactor
<Bornholio>
okay all the wrong places with that one .smirk
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<rsparkyc>
!last lamont
<rsparkyc>
!seen lamont
<Qboid>
rsparkyc: I last saw lamont on [23.05.2018 05:50:27] in #principia saying: "well fancy guidance is now flying rockets for the first time, although it goes insane when staging because i have more glue code to write"
<egg|zzz|egg>
meow
<rsparkyc>
!tell lamont so i ran into that issue where phi=45 with your mechjeb build
<Qboid>
rsparkyc: I'll redirect this as soon as they are around.
<rsparkyc>
!tell lamont i was trying to launch into a 90 inclination from vandenburg, but mechjeb didn’t want to do it for me
<Qboid>
rsparkyc: I'll redirect this as soon as they are around.
<rsparkyc>
speaking of vandenburg, I tested a build of KSCSwitcher for 1.4.3, seems to work fine
<rsparkyc>
i’m thinking of changing the versioning scheme so that the first 3 parts of the version match what KSP version it’s for, and the last part is a bulid number
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<lamont>
rsparkyc: yeah, if you’re at phi = 45 when tgo hits 40s then you’re gonna have a bad day, i take note of when phi stops being clipped and as long as its over 40s then you’re okay
<lamont>
fancy new guidance will not have that limitation
<rsparkyc>
cool, i’ll have to mess around and see what’s up
<rsparkyc>
i also noticed that when i told MJ to launch into a polar orbit, it’s direction was way off
<rsparkyc>
it was launching SE insthead of S
<lamont>
leading angle to plane
<lamont>
set it to 1 or 2
<rsparkyc>
ok
<lamont>
that’s when its set to 0 it will try to nail the exact orbital plane of your launch site (which you move away from at 400m/s due to coriolis velocity). it then has to fly back to that plane. if you “lead” the target plane then you give yourself some room to nullify that coriolis velocity.
<lamont>
and fancy new guidance just figures out that shit for you
<rsparkyc>
when’s the “fancy new guidance” version going to be released?
<rsparkyc>
(or at lEst comitted)
<rsparkyc>
s/lEst/least
<lamont>
heh dunno, i think i’ve been working on it for months now
<Qboid>
rsparkyc meant to say: (or at least comitted)
<rsparkyc>
lol
<lamont>
right now it can fly a booster to stage sep and then it goes insane because i need to be a lot more careful about copying the N-stage solution to the N-1 stage solution
<lamont>
i think i’ve passed the “beating my head against math i don’t quite understand” phase though and now i’m just yak shaving kerbal issues, and i’m actually trying to fly rockets, so its a lot closer than when i was just playing around with matlab
<rsparkyc>
so, you’re just saying everyone needs to get better at building SSTOs
<lamont>
yes!
<lamont>
titan missiles for everyone!
<lamont>
the really cool thing is that eventually if i figure out how to do aerodynamic forces, that road eventually can wind up with a winged high lift SSTO to orbit autopilot with an optimized ascent
<rsparkyc>
that would be sweet
<lamont>
yeah i suck at flying SSTOs now post-soup so i’d like code to handle that
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<rsparkyc>
yeah, so my phi has been at 45 since launch
<lamont>
always starts at 45 on launch
<lamont>
PEG abuse — its not supposed to be run at launch
<rsparkyc>
ok, i’m t+ 2:45 and it’s still at 45
<rsparkyc>
what is phi anyway?
<lamont>
PEG does linear tangent guidance so the direction you head sweeps through a line. the vector “vgo” is in the middle (at t = tgo/2), the vector lambda points where you’re heading now (at t = 0), then angle between those is phi. the total angle swept is going to be phi*2. there’s another vector called lambdaDot which is orthogonal to lambda and controls the ‘sweep rate’ and that implements the “linear tangent” part of the
<lamont>
guidance (its just a triangle where the “opposite” side of the triangle shrinks at the lambdaDot rate).
<lamont>
PEG uses an expansion which is only valid with phi < 45.
<lamont>
at least the thrust integrals i’ve got
<rsparkyc>
ok, i may have understood some of that :)
<lamont>
so if you think of a small on-orbit maneuver to raise periapsis or something
<lamont>
you don’t just burn in the direction of the maneuver node for a real (optimal) finite burn
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<lamont>
you start a few degrees pitch down (radially inwards) and then sweep through prograde, to a few degrees pitch up
<rsparkyc>
yeah, generally you’d just burn through prograde
<rsparkyc>
yeah
<lamont>
vgo is the maneuver node direction on the nav ball
<lamont>
lambda initially points in that slightly radially inwards direction.
<rsparkyc>
i see
<lamont>
the “few degrees” is phi
<lamont>
and then instead of doing like 1 degree / sec what you’re doing is “linear tangent” so that the tangent of the angle is stepping down at a constant rate
<lamont>
but geometrically its just that every tick you add lambdaDot (which is orthogonal) so it steps down the opposite side of the triangle (formed by phi) in even steps every tick
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<lamont>
oh and i screwed that up, lambda is still in-line with vgo and with the maneuver node direction (its the adjacent side and doesn’t change). you have to use tgo and lambdaDot to find phi and then you can find the current direction to point. been a few months so my brain is rusty.
<Starwaster>
huh I thought vgo was just how much more delta-v it had to go
<lamont>
it is, but its also a vector that points in a direction
<lamont>
i think i draw a big… blue? line in the debug arrows for vgo.
<lamont>
its the one that you can watch shrink to zero at the end of the burn
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<Starwaster>
yeah I keep meaning to recompile that debug vector out of there
<Starwaster>
one of these days...
<Starwaster>
hey, is it an unreasonable assumption that if a reaction requires a certain ratio of molecules to another molecule then the ratio of moles of each is the same?\
<lamont>
that is not unreasonable, that is the thing you do in fact
<lamont>
2 H20 -> 2 H2 + O2
<lamont>
that can be read either in moles or molecules
<lamont>
and it should be straightforwards to turn moles into mass (and both sides better be equal)
<Starwaster>
ok that's about what I thought but looking at the converter recipe for the Sabatier reaction in Real ISRU is starting to make less sense to me.
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<lamont>
and actually its only if you have the g/mol of H and O and add it up that it better be equal on both sides.
<lamont>
i you use the g/mol of H20 and H2 and O2 and they are precise values, then you should be able to find the energy excess as the difference (which if you add it to the equation is becomes 2 H2O -> 2 H2 + O2 + Energy
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<rsparkyc>
!tell Starwaster there’s a long-standing procedural-parts issue to have slanted parts (specifically nosecones, but i could see use cases for other parts). Any idea how hard that would be? It seems like you should just be able to offset the top node, but i’m not exactly sure how to do that
<Qboid>
rsparkyc: I'll redirect this as soon as they are around.
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<Starwaster>
rsparkyc I have no idea
<Qboid>
Starwaster: rsparkyc left a message for you in #RO [23.05.2018 18:49:41]: "there’s a long-standing procedural-parts issue to have slanted parts (specifically nosecones, but i could see use cases for other parts). Any idea how hard that would be? It seems like you should just be able to offset the top node, but i’m not exactly sure how to do that"
<rsparkyc>
bummer, was hoping putting a bug in your ear about it would cause you to say “oh, we could probably just do XYZ…”
<rsparkyc>
thought Tital-Stream seems to have a fork of it, maybe i could bug them
<Starwaster>
the node is just an attach point, I don't see how just offsetting it would make it slanted
<rsparkyc>
yeah, when i meant “node”, i meant the whole top part
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<Rokker>
Bornholio_: sometimes you really gotta admire israel
<Rokker>
Bornholio_: that Beirut picture is just great
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<Rokker>
that's how they tested its stealth capabilities
<Rokker>
they flew it over fuckin beirut
<ProjectThoth>
It's a tubby lookin' plane.
<Bornholio>
pretty sure lebanon stopped shooting at isreal for a while now.
<Bornholio>
not worth the buttock spanking they get
<Rokker>
Bornholio: yeah but they still would have gotten some level of response
<Rokker>
with a normal plane
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<Rokker>
Bornholio: anyways the point is that the F-35 has been flown over Syria twice and Lebanon at least 3 times and remained unspotted the whole time
<Bornholio>
f-35s do ops in syria for the use pretty often
<Bornholio>
mostly sensor fusion stuff
<Rokker>
Bornholio: um...
<Rokker>
no?
<Rokker>
oh
<Rokker>
possibly
<Rokker>
Bornholio: well this was the first combat use
<Bornholio>
A10 guys have been getting assesments and target coord from them for basicly as long as 10's have been there
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<Rokker>
Bornholio: also in the news, china is mean and dumb
<Bornholio>
.patonHead
<Rokker>
Bornholio: china done fucked up twice in this last news cycle
<Bornholio>
okay i have no news reading time feel free to inform me
<Rokker>
Bornholio: So first off there are reports coming in of cuba style sonic attacks on US diplomats
<Rokker>
and secondly Chinas latest chest puffing in the south china sea got them uninvited from a joint US military exercise
<Rokker>
also, a T-38 crashed in Mississippi
<Bornholio>
a shiss
<Bornholio>
eject?
<Rokker>
safe ejection
<Bornholio>
t38 ejection is kinda mild only loose about a half inch of height
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<Rokker>
Bornholio: as for the chinese chest puffing they have started landing H-6s at their SCS "islands"
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