ferram4 changed the topic of #RO to: Welcome to the discussion channel for the Realism Overhaul (meta)mod for KSP! Realism Overhaul Main Thread https://goo.gl/wH7Dzb ! RO Spreadsheet http://goo.gl/Oem3g0 ! Code of Conduct http://goo.gl/wOSv2M ! | Maximal & soundnfury's RP-1 Race Into Space Signup: http://bit.ly/2DEVm2i [15:01] <soundnfury> Straight Eight Stronk (and) RP-0/1 is basically "Space Agency Spreadsheet Simulator"
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<Starwaster>
So apparently, a greek questionmark looks just like a semicolon.... and if you stick one into some code, it won't compile and there won't be anything visual to tip the coder as to why it won't compile...
<Bornholio>
discovered the hard way?
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<lamont>
Bornholio: managed to find his phone number, i’ll try giving him a call on monday i guess (east coast)
<Bornholio>
good deal, did your read 2035 before, had more math, not sure it had any of the values in it
<lamont>
oh yeah, i just posted 2044 here ‘cuz it was more TL;DR for this channel
<lamont>
2035 is printed out and sitting on my coffee table =)
<lamont>
2035 has a reference to the paper i need without any of the actual equations
<lamont>
i wonder if they’re literally a trade secret / defense secret of some sort
<lamont>
alternatively though it may just be that they’re some kind of unreadable dense line noise that nobody can really read
<soundnfury>
Starwaster: now I'm expecting principia to use greek questionmarks in identifiers
<lamont>
f(x)=7+5*x+5*x^2, g=df/dx, g(4)=?:
<lamont>
This question is a means of preventing automated form submissions by spambots.
<soundnfury>
lamont: I liked the one on the Dudley's Dungeon comment form.
<soundnfury>
e.g. "Which character represents a spellbook or closed door?"
<stratochief>
!tell starwaster if you're making it work for yourself, no reason not to put that content into RealISRU or some other publicly available repository
<Qboid>
stratochief: I'll redirect this as soon as they are around.
<Rokker>
Starwaster: id install realisru
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<Qboid>
Rokker: I'll redirect this as soon as they are around.
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<egg|zzz|egg>
soundnfury: we don't use them anywhere, our code is normalized in normalization form C, which turns that into an actual semicolon (;)
<egg|zzz|egg>
(in other words the greek question mark exists only for legacy reasons)
<egg|zzz|egg>
we could have comments with questions in greek, and then they would end with semicolons
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<egg|zzz|egg>
lamont: have you made progress as far as interfacing with principia goes?
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<Starwaster>
rokker uhm......?
<Qboid>
Starwaster: stratochief left a message for you in #RO [19.05.2018 05:13:21]: "if you're making it work for yourself, no reason not to put that content into RealISRU or some other publicly available repository"
<Rokker>
1:12:17 AM <Qboid> stratochief: Starwaster left a message for you in #RO [18.05.2018 19:16:28]: "I've been looking at RealISRU and it's a Real Mess ... I've been doing some work on it but should I bother doing it for anyone but myself? What is its situation? Is there some other ISRU mod out there?"
<Rokker>
Starwaster: im saying if you updated it, you would have a user in me
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<Bornholio>
airforcetimes articles powered by twitter. rokker citing them makes me sad
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<Starwaster>
anyone understand ModuleCoreHeat and ModuleResourceConverter and how they interact with each other? Why would core heat required cooling field say 0 for the converter? Any known common mistakes/problems there?
<Bornholio>
NFE makes use of it i though
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<Starwaster>
bornholio I've compared with some of his configs and I just can't see what I'm doing wrong... I've even dissected the core heat code into mcnugget sized pieces and parts
<Bornholio>
those are roverdudes modules maybe he has notes in his mods
<Starwaster>
I don't think he makes much use of core heat in his own mods
<Starwaster>
or maybe he does....
<Bornholio>
sorry no better words than that :P
<Starwaster>
the code itself (for that section) is fairly simple.... it looks to see how much heat is produced when the core is at the target temperature and reports THAT as being the required cooling amount.. if that's 0 then it thinks that the core doesn't NEED cooling
<Starwaster>
BUT... if there were a problemt here then it wouldn't be making heat so it really WOULDNT Need cooling which it clearly does
<Starwaster>
wtf can't I figure this out, it's not rocket science
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<xShadowx|2>
scientists pre event are funny......."breaking the sound barrier will be impossible due to g-forces will rise infinitely as one approaches the barrier and destroy the plane"
<Starwaster>
who said that they would rise infinitely?
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<Starwaster>
bornholio mine is almost identical except for three fields... temp goal is different, radiatorHeatingFactor is higher and MaxCoolant is higher
<Starwaster>
actually I changed radiatorHeatingFactor to match already...
<Bornholio>
is it due to something else "consuming the heat"
<Starwaster>
gotta be the converter config not the core heat
<Starwaster>
uhm.... something? consuming the heat? If there were I'd have a different problem. Radiators are NOT taking heat from the liquefier when the core heat is above its temperature goal. And according to the part info in the VAB it doesn't even think it NEEDS to
<Starwaster>
and the code that governs THAT part is pretty simple
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<soundnfury>
xShadowx|2: sounds like someone fell for the Prandtl singularity xD
<Starwaster>
ok there is something about the way I'm putting my float curve together that it just doesnt like
<Bornholio>
starwaster any desire to push DRE to 1.4.x? I'm doing my 1.4 update duty
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<Starwaster>
bornholio when I get around to it :(
<Starwaster>
I've probably taken too much on
<Starwaster>
probably shouldn't be thinking of touching RealISRU until I get updates pushed out
<Starwaster>
and FUCK. What is WRONG with my curve? It's like it's not evaluating properly
<Starwaster>
a single element curve with one value is just as valid as a multi-element curve
<Starwaster>
I tried splicing in a different one and it at least displayed properly in the editor but when I replace the values it just doesnt work
<Bornholio>
lol, I would like a good RealISRU as well :P
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<Starwaster>
ok so I come back after about 10 minutes AFK and... my ISRU prototyping thingy is slowly sliding towards the edge of the launch pad...
<Starwaster>
and it just slid off.... and the launch pad went all explodey wodey
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<Starwaster>
pieces of radiator everywhere
<Bornholio>
cheer! kerbal success
<Starwaster>
I swear to god this goddamn game
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<Starwaster>
Did squad even look at the terrain default material friction?
<Bornholio>
you must buy DLC to have landing legs that don't explode
<Bornholio>
at least thats how i read 1.4.3
<Starwaster>
I'm not having a problem with legs exploding, I'm having a problem with things sliding all over like it's made of ice...
<Bornholio>
did an analysis for a california switch that overturned with a muck train in a tunnel last couple of weeks, determined that concrete covered in dust/grease/water is indeed ice μ=.1 or lower
<Bornholio>
honestly most kerbal pictures seen as an engineer, train slo-moed over. track ties poped their anchors and the whole thing rotated in the tunnel 35 degrees
<Bornholio>
I think kerbals problem is that surfaces have no impingment and so its like two infinetley stiff surfaces, doesn't matter how much friction you have unless its greater than unity you will slide
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<Starwaster>
ok fuck core heat
<stratochief>
yeah. I didn't find that core heat made any sense
<stratochief>
might just be worth disabling it, substituting some different system to sink and source heat
<Starwaster>
that means more code that I'm not willing to write at this time
<Starwaster>
I've already got things I have to get pushed out
<stratochief>
I understand. sucks that the base systems have so much trouble. KSP2 wen? need a more better base system to be worthy of experienced modders
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<Starwaster>
one of the biggest problems I've had with it is field names that make no sense to anyone but RoverDude
<Starwaster>
having to dissect the everliving fuck out of the code just to figure out what all these goddamn things do
<stratochief>
yep. RoverDude makes shitty CoreHeat, which doesn't need to exist seperate from the regular heat system. RoverDude also doesn't document his code so that people can actually do something with it.
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<Starwaster>
stratochief I finally sat down and figured out exactly what four fields do and when they do it.... FOUR different fields in two sets. One set of two fields for part/core gain/loss ONLY when core energy > part energy
<Starwaster>
and then another set of two part/core loss/gain for when core energy is < part energy
<Starwaster>
so you can have all kinds of magical thermal mayhem
<Starwaster>
you can literally make heat disappear
<stratochief>
well, that is what you'd want to happen in an endothermic reaction
<stratochief>
I think at least one of the sub-processes for martian fuel synthesis is endothermic
<stratochief>
maybe RWGS
<Starwaster>
yes but IRL the energy doesn't really just disappear. And when you're planning missions you have to account for that shit.
<Starwaster>
If you're liquefying resources then you have to figure out where that heat you're taking out of them is going to
<Starwaster>
and the thermal energy generated by the pumps and compressors, you have to figure out where that heat is going to
<Starwaster>
what WE have allows for magical heat sinks event horizons where energy can just vanish into and you can't get any sort of equilibrium going
<Starwaster>
I think what I'll do with the liquefier is keep the thermal generating aspect of core heat but remove the thermal inefficiency in the converter. That way you at least have the increased heat leakage that you have to keep out of your tanks if you want to prevent boiloff
<stratochief>
indeed. building a model that doesn't assert the conservation of energy is... problematic. I doubt RoverDude really gets that, though
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