egg|principia|egg changed the topic of #kspmodders to: Welcome to #kspmooders | <Majiir> egg is pretty much just a chickenfetus until you start talking about floating point | <SilverFox> "little" doesn't seem like a real word to me right now
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<Majiir>
d20 -- will anyone ever make a network speaker that's as awesome as I want it to be
<Qboid>
Majiir: SilverFox left a message for you in #kspmodders [23.03.2017 13:01:34]: "Dude from Angel Eyes is in a new thing called "귓속말" that airs on SBS at 3월 27일. I just saw the advert for it."
<Soozee>
Majiir: 10
<Majiir>
That seems like a no
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<G-Magic>
Majiir: sonos?
<Majiir>
G-Magic, Sonos doesn't support 5Ghz which makes its wifi garbage, and it was a chore getting the wired set up. While it DOES work consistently now, I only use it as a UPnP Media renderer in practice, because the app and all that crap isn't useful.
<G-Magic>
gorbachov?
<Majiir>
and you can't cluster speakers as a single renderer without going into all the proprietary Sonos garbage
<G-Magic>
Majiir: do you think you have the skill to make your ideal product in 6 months or less; not including the actual speakers and driver circuitry
<Majiir>
I don't have any practice making physical products
<G-Magic>
I guarantee you there are people who will pay you 600$ each
<G-Magic>
it'd be a wifi box with software
<SilverFox>
that number of people however...
<G-Magic>
2~60k
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<Majiir>
How much speaker can you get with 15W
<SilverFox>
299 MSRP
<G-Magic>
wattage is a poor judge of speakers
<Majiir>
but it's a very good judge of PoE limitations
<G-Magic>
don't you want wifi?
<G-Magic>
5.gigawidgets
<Majiir>
The core thing I want is the ability to set up a whole array of networked speakers that are configured for the environment so they can function as whole units of network speakers
<Majiir>
so I could have like 20 speakers and have three zones for them
<SilverFox>
Majiir, have you seen the drama Stronk wooman Do a Bong Soon?
<Majiir>
Wireless would be _okay_ but presents technical challenges
<G-Magic>
wtf did your face just shit out of your fingers
<Majiir>
and it would only be okay if I could get 5GHz
<Majiir>
because 2.4Ghz is absolute garbage in my area
<teabot>
Absolutea.
<Majiir>
like sub-1Mbps garbage
<SilverFox>
sounds like it should be relatively easy for you to do in software
<G-Magic>
ideally the speaker system would run on an isolated mesh network
<Majiir>
G-Magic, naaah, mesh introduces latency and collisions
<Majiir>
Centralized networking is fine
<G-Magic>
software could solve that
<Majiir>
Not really
<Majiir>
Collisions are pretty inherent to CDMA
<G-Magic>
mesh assembly, centralized operation
<Majiir>
CDMA? What's the one that isn't cell phones
<G-Magic>
namaste
<Majiir>
CSMA
<Majiir>
If I wanted optimal performance I'd go with something like TDMA but *meh*
<G-Magic>
point is, using not-802.11 on a frequency that is neither 2.4GHz or 5.8GHz would allow you to avoid nearly all congestion; ideally you want to go with a higher frequency so the penetration is worse
<Majiir>
Working with wifi is fine
<Majiir>
What other frequency would I use? 24GHz is going to be basically line-of-sight
<Majiir>
5GHz works, and using wifi works as long as the audio doesn't need to be super low latency
<Majiir>
And it doesn't
<Majiir>
It just needs to be synchronized
<G-Magic>
well, we want it to work within a room, and it is a value if it doesn't work outside the room, but isn't line of sight, does that exist?
<Majiir>
I could tolerate 100ms of buffering, and wifi can do that easy
<Majiir>
G-Magic, yeah, it's 5GHz
<G-Magic>
5.8 can penetrate most walls at least once
<Majiir>
24GHz won't penetrate much of anything
<Majiir>
and there's no other unlicensed spectrum between 5Ghz and 24Ghz
<SilverFox>
128Ghz or bust
<G-Magic>
is there an 11~?
<G-Magic>
mmkay
<G-Magic>
what about ultrasonics
<G-Magic>
yes I know that's stupid
<Majiir>
.....no
<Majiir>
Networking is also not the problem here
<Hyratel>
IR
<Majiir>
Like, it is, but it's because 2.4Ghz blows
<Majiir>
5GHz wifi is *FINE*
<G-Magic>
IR is line of sight
<Hyratel>
IR is line of sight plus any reflective surfaces
<Hyratel>
if your broadcast is bright enough
<SilverFox>
1.2Ghz or ballocks
<G-Magic>
do matte painted ceilings count?
<G-Magic>
also doesn't IR have a really poor baud?
<Hyratel>
what's your target datarate
<Majiir>
Like 1Mbps tops
<G-Magic>
300kbps or so
<G-Magic>
oh
<G-Magic>
you have super flacs
<Majiir>
I said tops
<Majiir>
It's likely much lower
<SilverFox>
gotta get that FLAAC kpop yo
<SilverFox>
BIT PERFECT
<Majiir>
FLAC is pointless for kpop
<Majiir>
just get good 320Kbps
<G-Magic>
Hyratel: high fidelity audio streams
<SilverFox>
BIT FUCKING PERFECT
<Majiir>
It's never gonna be bit perfect
<G-Magic>
what about UV laser projectors putting QR codes on the ceiling
<Majiir>
You're getting a perfect rendition of an imperfect compression
<Hyratel>
the main problem with IR is that its most common IR systems run at 36k/38k carrier freq
<Majiir>
I'm doing laundry
<SilverFox>
what the fuck
<Majiir>
You fuckers can't get over the networking
<SilverFox>
this is about as entertaining as this drama
<Hyratel>
so your datastream will have to be a fraction of that - probably no higher than 1/8
<Hyratel>
how about this
<Hyratel>
have wifi saturation and use IR per-room to select a datastream
<teabot>
Saturatean.
<G-Magic>
look man, you basically want a fancy pi with built in 5.8 and a high fidelity DAC shield; and software
<Hyratel>
Majiir, you want room-specific sound streams right?
<Hyratel>
for like a Walkman Docent at a museum
<Hyratel>
International Spy Museum had those in ... 2005? 06? somewhere in that time frame
<teabot>
Internateaonal.
<Majiir>
Let's split this up
<G-Magic>
the hardware is fucking out of the box, the only tough part is software, and you are more than capable of that; the question is whether you think you could put it out in a relatively short period of time so that the small number of people who would pay a lot for it will justify your time
<Majiir>
Hardware: I want wired ethernet and 5GHz wifi. Don't give a shit about anything else. 2.4Ghz can be dropped.
<G-Magic>
audio products are an industry of whales
<Majiir>
I would love better speakers than what Sonos offers, maybe slightly larger ones
<Hyratel>
what is your objective
<Hyratel>
lets start with the goal and work backwards. what do you want this widget to /do/
<Majiir>
To play music
<SilverFox>
What's your marketing approach?
<G-Magic>
Hyratel: he wants a sonos but with better software and 5.8GHz
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<Hyratel>
dafuq is a sonos
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<SilverFox>
How many waffles can you simultaneously fit in your mouth?
<Majiir>
It's a network speaker that lacks things
<G-Magic>
google it
<Hyratel>
so you want a music streambox
<G-Magic>
it's a box that makes sounds
<Hyratel>
with certain parameters not available on COTS gear
<Majiir>
I want a music streambox where I can deploy multiple in a room and have them coordinated
<G-Magic>
the advantage of sonos is that it's an ecosystem, they generally expect you to buy one for every major room in your house
<SilverFox>
synctube for speakers
<SilverFox>
done
<Majiir>
The disadvantage of Sonos is that their ecosystem blows for power users
<G-Magic>
they 'work together' and shit
<Hyratel>
do you eant them to auto-coordinate?
<G-Magic>
there's room calibration with a loud noise
<Hyratel>
or manual configuration
<G-Magic>
it listens to your phone and maps out shit or something
<Hyratel>
WIFI + IR meshin
<Majiir>
Hyratel, I generally tend toward manual configuration, but not because I want it for its own right
<Hyratel>
meshing
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<Majiir>
I want manual configuration because all the existing products go too far in the autoconfiguration direction
<Majiir>
and they don't provide enough control
<Majiir>
I think wifi is sufficient
<Hyratel>
wifi for the datastream, IR for the mesh coordination
<Hyratel>
oh. then lessee
<Majiir>
Sonos and other products have a wifi meshing system because they're designed to work on shit networks
<Majiir>
but I'm accepting "must be able to maintain a high-performance wireless network" as a requirement for using this device
<G-Magic>
you could use arrayed directional reciever disks to use IR to assemble a real world analysis of position; can you use IR for range finding without fancy bullshit?
<Hyratel>
I don't remember
<Majiir>
I imagine that any specialized hardware would be around autocalibration -- question is, can autocalibration be done with just a wifi antenna and/or a microphone?
<G-Magic>
oh yea, known distance sigma
<Majiir>
I'm very willing to manually configure the networking and grouping and that sort of thing
<Majiir>
Less willing to manually configure the audio characteristics
<Majiir>
especially timing
<G-Magic>
but then the IR recievers will need to be camera grade
<Majiir>
Let's include a smartphone in the mix
<G-Magic>
what OS are you on?
<SilverFox>
also my grandmother's ipad, kthnx
<G-Magic>
smrtfn wise
<Majiir>
Android -- although I suspect we could do this with a web browser these days...
<G-Magic>
how much did you pay for your android?
<Majiir>
$500-800?
<Majiir>
I don't know
<G-Magic>
mmkay
<G-Magic>
we can do a lot with this fone
<Majiir>
Let's say that in addition to a high-performance wifi network you must also have a high-end modern smartphone
<Majiir>
I mean mine's a year or two old but whatever
<G-Magic>
your phone should have a useful accelerometer/gyro set so motion tracking should be useable information
<Majiir>
I was more thinking: Set the phone still somewhere, have the speakers tone and figure out their relative positions that way
<Majiir>
...I suppose moving the phone would help with that huh
<G-Magic>
would you be OK walking around the room tapping your phone on top of each speaker
<Majiir>
Yes
<Majiir>
And I'd be OK putting NFC equipment in the speakers
<Hyratel>
at that point it's all software
<Hyratel>
no need for NFC
<Hyratel>
just an optic tag
<Majiir>
NFC is cooler
<Hyratel>
also adds cost
<Majiir>
This is a premium product
<G-Magic>
so each speaker produces a unique tone, and you walk around tapping them, the motion and audio analysis should provide all the necessary information for calibrating the network accurately
<SilverFox>
Cost is not an obstacle for the Jiir
<Majiir>
G-Magic, there's an additional complication
<SilverFox>
for he is above mere mortal monetation
<G-Magic>
always
<Hyratel>
NFC adds cost without any advantage over a QR code
<Majiir>
The speakers also need to account for their network latency
<G-Magic>
pft, that's easy
<Majiir>
Not as easy as you'd think
<Majiir>
Round-trip latency is easy
<Majiir>
One-way latency is HARD
<Majiir>
and what we care about is the latency from the controller server and the other speakers
<Majiir>
not the way back
<Hyratel>
wait
<G-Magic>
once you have a map of where they are, you can put the phone down in a known location and have each speaker test it's latency; the position map would allow you to account for speed of sound delay
<teabot>
Locateaon.
<SilverFox>
I want to say "just calibrate the latency" but I have a feeling that isnt an easy task
<Hyratel>
^ good
<Majiir>
G-Magic, I guess that works as long as the speakers don't need to be synchronized to get the location map
<G-Magic>
so you spend two minutes bonking the phones around, then just set the phone down in the middle of the room and come back in ten minutes
<Majiir>
SilverFox, there's a nice theorem that shows that you cannot calculate one-way latency with any kind of clever pinging algorithm
<SilverFox>
I mean like, stand in a room and be like, "yup, this is behind by a few seconds, adjust that"
<Majiir>
G-Magic, ideas on how we could do this (a) without the phone and (b) without requiring IR line-of-sight stuff
<SilverFox>
but yeah, you're in a different room
<Hyratel>
SilverFox, we're talking 10ms latencies
<SilverFox>
can you really hear the difference between 10ms?
<Hyratel>
yes
<Majiir>
If it's wrong? Hell yes
<G-Magic>
Majiir: put a mic on each speaker, do the same test but have every speaker recording every other speaker, bring them together and do math to figure out shit
<Hyratel>
it's called "flange effect"
<SilverFox>
I see
<SilverFox>
so have a speaker/mic pairing or something
<SilverFox>
that creates a round-trip, doesn't it?
<Majiir>
G-Magic, do you think a mic is cheaper than NFC
<Hyratel>
Majiir, yes
<Hyratel>
mic is way cheaper
<Majiir>
Okay well let's do NFC anyway for the network configuration but let's add the mic for auto-calibration
<G-Magic>
again, arrayed directional speakers could be used to make an angular layout analysis
<G-Magic>
speakers -> mics
<Majiir>
Cheap motherfuckers can pay like $50 less but get a gigantic ugly QR code
<Majiir>
and otherwise the product is identical
<G-Magic>
and arrayed directional mics would make voice capture for voice commands much easier
<SilverFox>
yessss
<G-Magic>
the Echo uses that, but it's currently individual mic arrays, so it's only very successful
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<Majiir>
Okay so next question
<Majiir>
How do we get the audio quality high?
<Majiir>
The idea here is lots of small speakers all over the place -- but as I understand, that's bad for audio quality
<G-Magic>
good circuitry
<Majiir>
so do we need a few big speakers too? Or is the entire premise flawed
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<G-Magic>
undersized speakers are bad; don't get undersized speakers
<G-Magic>
get well designed speaker housings, that are suitable for the drivers you pick out
<Hyratel>
Majiir, matte-gloss contrast
<SilverFox>
how bout this, we demolish the walls, and put up walls made of speaker
<Hyratel>
shut uuuup SilverFox
<G-Magic>
you want a high quality DAC, high quality amps
<SilverFox>
calm down dude
<SilverFox>
you need to lower your voice
<G-Magic>
all of this isn't a matter of expensive parts (except the driver) but making the circuits as a whole well designed and balanced as a whole
<Hyratel>
I am calm. I'm just vaguely annoyed at your shitposting
<Majiir>
I don't remember if this is a mistake or not
<Majiir>
We're going to find out
<SilverFox>
kick me daddy
<Majiir>
G-Magic, so I need like good engineers
SilverFox was kicked from #kspmodders by Hyratel [because you asked so nicely]
<Majiir>
Are audio engineers easier to find than software engineers? because goddamn
<G-Magic>
no, you need an audiophile and a budget
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<G-Magic>
everything I just said you can buy
<SilverFox>
that's the good shit
<Majiir>
Where do I buy an audiophile
<G-Magic>
reddit
<SilverFox>
I know a few!
<Majiir>
I have multiple projects this could help with
<SilverFox>
they run podcasts
<Majiir>
We need an audio guy for our office
<Majiir>
We need a kazoo that goes off whenever a build succeeds
<SilverFox>
he lives in boston too
<Majiir>
An airhorn for component deployments
<SilverFox>
or near there at least
<G-Magic>
just like building a PC you need parts that are appropriate for eachother, and are not themselves crap
<Majiir>
Gunshots for log warnings and artillery barrages for errors and fatals
<Majiir>
A trombone for build failures
<G-Magic>
just gonna read that as toblerone
<SilverFox>
Greys, tell that to my RAM configuration
<Majiir>
The hard part of this is still the software
<G-Magic>
SilverFox: you are a sad person who will die alone
<G-Magic>
the hard part was always the software
<SilverFox>
also holy shit my internet/network is screaming and dying
<Majiir>
I need to take UPnP Media and OpenHome Media and make them better
<G-Magic>
I bet most of the software even exists in FOSS
<Majiir>
Friend of mine has 2Gbps netz now
<Majiir>
3Gbps if he ever gets around to it
<Majiir>
We found out that Flash can't render a 2Gbps speed test without murdering the CPU
<SilverFox>
that's excessive
<Majiir>
1Gbps is one thing, but once you go above that you need 10Gbps networking gear
<Majiir>
which is where stuff gets real fun
<Majiir>
This is DM btw
<SilverFox>
sounds very not fun for the wallet
<Majiir>
wallet lol
<Majiir>
DM has money
<Majiir>
He makes like $75K more than I do
<G-Magic>
the real problem with multigigabit speed tests is you need a speed tester with an even faster connection to test against
<Majiir>
G-Magic, magically, Speedtest.net just worked
<Majiir>
at some point, the real speed test is probably Bittorrent
<G-Magic>
try other servers, I bet a lot don't hold up
<Majiir>
Like find a highly seeded, low-demand torrent that's 100Gb
<SilverFox>
Majiir, download GTAV
<Majiir>
Wikipedia backups or something
<G-Magic>
like, linux?
<Majiir>
Linux distros are too tiny
<Majiir>
Can't get a good sustained speed test that way
<G-Magic>
huge linux
<Majiir>
Someone needs to make a speed tester torrent
<Majiir>
Like a client that torrents and just throws away the data
<Majiir>
Why the hell haven't speed tests already been P2P'd
<Majiir>
We could do this with WebRTC
<Majiir>
P2P in-browser speed test
<G-Magic>
do it?
<Majiir>
I just realized this is programming effort and I hate programming these days
<Hyratel>
I'm not sure if you could test to a waypoint for latency purposes
<G-Magic>
that sounds like it wouldn't need much infrastructure, just the ability to connect two clients in a manually routed or randomly routed assignment
<Majiir>
G-Magic, yeah you'd have central servers for serving up the webpage (easy, could do it on CDN) and for negotiating connections between clients (pretty lightweight)
<Majiir>
That stuff would scale easily
<Majiir>
Then you could have specialized peers that run like traditional speedtest servers
<G-Magic>
you want to offer tests against yourself, you get a link, spread the link, people can test against you
<Majiir>
Pretty much
<G-Magic>
you could have this prototyped by friday
<Majiir>
Every browser open at the site is a peer
<Majiir>
Then you have dedicated peers running too
<Majiir>
I have other things I need to do by Friday
<Majiir>
I got ninja'd onto a shitty project
<SilverFox>
HA
<G-Magic>
there are many two and a half hour periods following the period between now and friday
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<Majiir>
Fuck off Fox, I make like three times what you ever will
<G-Magic>
btw I have a salary now
<Majiir>
G-Magic, I am not THAT good at WebRTC
<Majiir>
I am in fact nothing at WebRTC
<Majiir>
Salary not hourly? Nice
<SilverFox>
even gods have their limits
<Majiir>
At least I think that's nice
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<G-Magic>
I'm salary but described hourly, it's weird but I don't punch
<Majiir>
I had a job like that
<Majiir>
Pay was weird
<Majiir>
Report hours and get paid hours but ..... have a salary?
<G-Magic>
my pay is fixed
<Majiir>
I'm guessing you have minimum hours to work
<Majiir>
Do you get OT?
<G-Magic>
once my counterpart is hired and trained I will be working 60 hours one week, 20 hours the next week, on a fixed schedule
<Majiir>
huh
<G-Magic>
datacenter, overnight
<G-Magic>
I periodically read LCDs on air handlers and PDUs
<Majiir>
We had one of our datacenters lose power and their generators failed
<Majiir>
so that stuff is important
<G-Magic>
my datacenter has power from two substations, plus a generator, plus lots of PSUs
<G-Magic>
if everything except the PSUs failed we could run for 30 minutes
<G-Magic>
UPSs
<G-Magic>
too many word letter strings
<Majiir>
Our DC had generators but they broke down after 10 minutes
<Majiir>
and the batteries failed after 5 more
<G-Magic>
your DC sucks
<Majiir>
Yeah
<Majiir>
Lots of our stuff sucks
<SilverFox>
lul
<G-Magic>
you should use our DC
<G-Magic>
I'll transfer you to sales
<G-Magic>
*click*
<Majiir>
Is it in an Asian country that nobody hates?
<SilverFox>
oh Majiir, I got accepted into a nursing program at my college
<Majiir>
because we are currently expanding into Asia
<Majiir>
but the problem is
<G-Magic>
it is in fact, in detroit
<Majiir>
every country in Asia is hated by somebody where we have lots of potential clients
<Majiir>
so we're currently thinking like, Hong Kong and Australia?
<Majiir>
It's difficult
<G-Magic>
how many asian countries hate detroit
<Majiir>
Probably not many
<Majiir>
Latency might suck for them though
<Majiir>
Then again
<Majiir>
Our service blows anyway
<Majiir>
for latency
<G-Magic>
we'll just install a time hole
<SilverFox>
Greys, what kind of advancements are we going to make to the Pocket Dimension?
<G-Magic>
I don't remember what you're talking about
<Majiir>
One day I'd like to write a novel about some dudes who figure out how to transmit data through the planet and use it to make a killing on high-frequency trading
<SilverFox>
remember when you can pocket dimension so large computations can be done in short periods of time?
<G-Magic>
norp
<Majiir>
That could be, what, up to pi/2 factor reduction in latency?
<darklight>
pi/2 - 1 right?
<Majiir>
Anyway Greys, congrats on job thing, hope you enjoy it
<darklight>
No
<Majiir>
> pi / 2
* darklight
is an idiot
<G-Magic>
I am not in conflict with anyone
<Soozee>
mueval-core: Time limit exceeded
<Majiir>
...wat
<Majiir>
:t pi / 2
<darklight>
Lol
<Soozee>
Floating a => a
<SilverFox>
lol
<Majiir>
Dammit Soozee, did you try to compute infinite pi
<Majiir>
> pi
<Soozee>
3.141592653589793
<G-Magic>
dividing pi by 2 is a reciprocal
<Majiir>
> pi / 2
<Soozee>
1.5707963267948966
<darklight>
The only winning move was not to play
<Hyratel>
if you're talking just fiber optic path, it'd be no more than T/pi
<Hyratel>
because circumfrence is 2pi
<G-Magic>
T/pi^N
<darklight>
Nobody runs the cable in a big cirlfe
<darklight>
*circle
<Hyratel>
Great Circle
<Hyratel>
is the shortest path between two points on a sphere
<kmath>
YouTube - T-Pain - Buy U A Drank (Shawty Snappin') ft. Yung Joc
<teabot>
Shawtea.
<G-Magic>
you didn't read it
<SilverFox>
read at least the first page
<G-Magic>
you're such a hussy
<SilverFox>
my switch is going to take 4 days to arrive reeeeeeeeeee
<SilverFox>
i paid for it to be here by like, today, tomorrow latest
<G-Magic>
you're like some pint ass bitch trying to front like they know shakespeare to the head of the drama department, when you don't even know the plot of romeo and juliet
<SilverFox>
pedophile falls in love with a grade schooler, they both die
<G-Magic>
people like me fuck people like you and kick them out in the morning
<darklight>
Silverfox I think in pakistan they both get executed
<SilverFox>
would you even let me make you breakfast though?
<SilverFox>
im good at making breakfast
<G-Magic>
fuck no bitch
<SilverFox>
well fuck
<G-Magic>
3/10
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<SilverFox>
what am i supposed to do
<G-Magic>
find a pimp?
<SilverFox>
you invite me to your home and now I can't do the common courtesy of cooking you a meal with your own food?
<darklight>
Greys, I didn't know you were into chasing silverfox tail :P
<G-Magic>
I have coeds for that
<G-Magic>
they can cook and are a good lay
<SilverFox>
well wtf you need me for
<Majiir>
I need to get some coeds who can chase tail for me so I don't have to
<G-Magic>
a sense of superiority
<SilverFox>
that's like outsourcing when it's more expensive and you have better talent locally
<G-Magic>
that's a lot of outsourcing
<darklight>
Silverfox but then greys would have to clean the yiff mess
<SilverFox>
yanno, if you have to kick the dirt to feel above it, you are pretty low to begin with
<teabot>
Prettea.
<G-Magic>
darklight: #coedsforthat
<SilverFox>
i own that channel now
<G-Magic>
SilverFox: you may be unaware of this, I know you're inexperienced with reality
<G-Magic>
the dirt, is the top of the ground
<G-Magic>
there's a whole hell of a lot of ground under the dirt
<SilverFox>
Greys, what I'm saying is that going to people like me, to feel superior to someone, is like going to an elementary school, going into a first grade class, and getting joy out of beating the children on tests
<G-Magic>
eh, I don't know, you're not that smart
<Majiir>
ayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy
<darklight>
You know kids do have a rather truthful view about their reality :P
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<SilverFox>
you sure about that?]
<G-Magic>
sventeen hauntered per tent
<G-Magic>
Haunter second best twice
<SilverFox>
which one is haunter?
<G-Magic>
the one in the back
<SilverFox>
they rotate
<G-Magic>
she stays in the back
<SilverFox>
also learned that crayon pop has a chick named Choa
<G-Magic>
she's the least vaguely competent dancer
<SilverFox>
gib names
<G-Magic>
Majiir: what's Haunter's ""' real name '''
<Majiir>
Mina
<SilverFox>
oh shit it's mina?
<SilverFox>
nice
<G-Magic>
right, the one with the moon carrot space baby
<Majiir>
If you want Googles then you can search Mina Myoui but you'll have better luck with TWICE Mina
<SilverFox>
i wonder if Crayon pop choa is even the cute one
<Majiir>
Choa is best twin
<G-Magic>
is she #1 Sporty Spice?
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<Majiir>
Choa is one of the twins in Crayon Pop
<G-Magic>
you say that as if I know what any of that is
<SilverFox>
I remember one ad for chicken, and it's whole spiel ends in "뜯고 싶네"
<SilverFox>
which btw sounds a lot like shimneh
<SilverFox>
you can barely hear a "p" there
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<SilverFox>
Majiir, watch this: http://aqstream.com/kbsd/KBS-Drama-Mobile and I can guarantee you you will find a commercial, probably the first one played, with a girl singing about chicken drumsticks
<SilverFox>
and you will see it again, and again, and 3 more times before they switch to something else, and then back to chicken
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<SilverFox>
yanno, it's always fucking chicken
<SilverFox>
about a month ago it was a chicken advert where some somewhat ugly girl pulled a sweater over her head
<SilverFox>
back in january was prime-time for commercials, they had like, 3-4 different ones during commercial break
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<SilverFox>
oh my sweet jesus there's another fucking honorific change that can be made
<SilverFox>
total is now 16
<SilverFox>
!tell Majiir I've been trying to get the level of formality that 을까 is at and ended up finding the 16th honorific: 을래, which is also a question thing, at the same level of honorific as 을까, whatever that may be
<Qboid>
SilverFox: I'll redirect this as soon as they are around.
<SilverFox>
ohp, you can add 요 to these fuckers so that's 18, and there's also a 습니다 form so yay that's 20 fucking honorifics now
<SilverFox>
!tell Majiir 을까 is at the level of 어, you can add 요 and 습니다 forms to it too, but it becomes "을껍니까" but you can't 습니까 the 을래 form, so that's 19 honorifics im at now
<Qboid>
SilverFox: I'll redirect this as soon as they are around.
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<Greys>
yay tethering
<darklight>
Your internet down again?
<Greys>
shut off
<Greys>
but now I have 5gb of data
<Glass|phone>
enter password → text box only allows 10 chars → choose 9 char pw → "too long"
<darklight>
Glass|phone: Let me guess, your local bank? :P
<Glass|phone>
darklight: internet provider
<Greys>
did you see the one about the gas provider who put a complaint on firefox's bugtracker because firefox puts a "not secure" alert on their login page
<darklight>
Why is firefox's bug tracker not public?
<darklight>
What is this nonsense
<Greys>
it is
<darklight>
If you log in :P
<Greys>
that bug has been hidden
<Greys>
"the site's subscription page transmits credit card information over plain-vanilla HTTP pages as well. The lack of protection is made worse by the assurance on the same page that: "All credit card information is encrypted using our Secure Transaction Server." Making matters worse still: the login page is returning error messages that indicate it may be vulnerable to SQL injection attacks."
<Greys>
so is there a company out there with a warehouse of props, a warehouse of costumes, and a fancy camera, that spends all day every day producing strange stock images?
<Greys>
also I heard at work yesterday that congress struck down some broadband privacy law that prevents ISPs from selling usage statistics?
<darklight>
Greys: See that's the narrative that should be in the media. Now "hurr durr trump about to get impeached"
<darklight>
*not
<darklight>
The press room is *still* talking about the russians
<Greys>
so it took him 5 years to escalate all the way to war, but he was doing bad shit real fast
<darklight>
It's a bit of a stretch to jump from "removing privacy regulations" to "killing americans"
<darklight>
You forget he is a nationalist, not an ethno-nationalist
<Greys>
yes but look at the timeline
<darklight>
I think you can be pretty confident the death camps were things that existed fairly early on
<Greys>
hitler becomes chancellor, revokes constitutional rights, drops out of alliances; riots and shit, new aliances, then war
<Greys>
the active descrimination against jews was at about the 2 year mark
<Greys>
we're months in, hitler was only normal bad after months
<Greys>
months? month?
<darklight>
I think you're overblowing things a little bit, you do realise he's been attempting to pander to women's advocacy and the black caucus right?
<Greys>
if you want to compare trump to hitler, it's going to take time before things ramp up to the kinds of horrible things that hitler is known for now
<darklight>
If you're worried about actual facism, I'd suggest looking at those who are playing the identity politics game :P
<Greys>
I would but they don't have an identity
<darklight>
I think we're on our way more to a police state rather than full on facism
<darklight>
I've no idea of the content of those meetings though
<Greys>
that's still ignoring the topic I was talking about though
<darklight>
I'm trying to redirect your anger a bit :P
<Greys>
that hitler didn't go from inauguration to declaration of war in a single stride
<darklight>
Have you listened to hitlers declaration of war?
<Greys>
it took him five years
<Greys>
he did bad shit along the way, and it was extremely bad shit, that ramped up with large periods of no action
<darklight>
Sure
<Greys>
the actual actions he took were widely spaced over a five year period, not counting stoking the flames with rallies and shit
<darklight>
But trumps focus is wall, replace obamacare, stop isis
<darklight>
And stop isis isn't something that really comes up
<AlterJeb>
trump isn't the worst, he's paving the way for the worst that will come in 4 to 8 years
<AlterJeb>
he's the beast, after him comes the smiling man
<darklight>
Sure, he's doing things way too quickly
<darklight>
But hey, I thought he was going to be 100% toothless like every politician
<darklight>
So he's outdone my expectations there :P
<Greys>
Trump has been in office for two months, he still has three years and ten months to ramp up in before we could possibly halt this without intervention
<darklight>
Greys: you mean 7 years 10 months
<darklight>
But fair enough
<darklight>
:P
<Greys>
no, I mean what I said
<Greys>
consider that your first offense
<Greys>
never fucking tell me what I meant
<AlterJeb>
darklight is such a mansplainer
<darklight>
I was making a joke :P
<Greys>
I will end australia
<Greys>
not the nation, the continent
<Greys>
darklight, it has never and will never be a funny joke, only an attack
<darklight>
Well, you're going to have to come up with a strong, principled, not 70 year old preferably, democratic candidate
<Greys>
obamagain
<darklight>
I think while you lack one of those, you're not in a good way
<Greys>
-<>-
<AlterJeb>
the democratic party is in a deepening crisis
<AlterJeb>
a lot of their party woke up from the lieberal slumber and turned to the left, they need to accomodate that or face extinction
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<icefire>
or more realistically they're just holding their dicks until their free congress/house wins in 2018
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<darklight>
lieberal slumber? :P
<AlterJeb>
yes
<AlterJeb>
the velvet gloved corrupt corporatism that has basically defined the democratic party for the last several decades
<darklight>
Ah yeah
<darklight>
To be fair, that affects everyone
<darklight>
That isn't really a partisan thing
<AlterJeb>
certainly, but it is a problem for the democrats now
<darklight>
Trump didn't "clean house" as much as I would have liked, but w/e :P
<AlterJeb>
he didn't mention anything about filling up the swamp again with trump brand swamp water during his campaign... >_>
<darklight>
I think with the majority of the party against him, I think it's fair to say he would prefer his own people
<darklight>
Anyway, the point I want to get across to greys is to get familiar with identity politics as a concept, and then go look at the alt righty people, and understand why they exist
<darklight>
Then it's easy to see where everything is going wrong :P
<AlterJeb>
alt-right as in kekistani trolls or as in neonazis?
<darklight>
The neo-nazi side, although it's more accurate to describe them as white or ethno-nationalists
<darklight>
Who believe that the *white identity* is under attack, and that's kinda easy to find :P
<AlterJeb>
I'm perfectly fine with calling them neonazis as long as they hail victory and shit :P
<darklight>
Kinda blowing away a few normal principles though
<icefire>
im sorry is your white identity under attack?
<icefire>
do you need your identity safe space
<darklight>
icefire: According to them
<darklight>
I think they are silly for playing the game tbh :P
<icefire>
sounds like they're the SJW's they love to criticize
<AlterJeb>
pretty much
<darklight>
*exactly* right
<darklight>
They literally call themselves identitarians
<Truga>
what
<Truga>
I haven't heard that one before lmao
<icefire>
I identify as an attack helicopter
<darklight>
But when you throw sjw out there people recall and think you're one of them so I tend to avoid it :P
<Truga>
I'm glad I checked into this conversation just now
<Truga>
hi, I'm a SJW
<Truga>
it's the best
<Truga>
people keep confirming it too
<Truga>
:3
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<darklight>
I think to just viciously attack people kinda doesn't help :P
<darklight>
Understanding of the issues might kinda help you know :P
<darklight>
Truga: I think people kinda get unfairly lumped into a side, I'm not going to go all caps rage on people, although I'll randomly shout at the tv and yell "but that's dumb!"
* darklight
is getting prematurely old
<Truga>
I just laugh at idiots on the internet
<Truga>
they're just so stupid
<darklight>
That's what I'm getting at
<AlterJeb>
in the technofuture we will be yelling at kids to get off our feed dag-nabit
<Truga>
also telling stupid people on the internet they're being stupid means you're a sjw in 2017
<Truga>
:p
<darklight>
Upping someone for the wrong haircut, or wearing clothing is retarded
<darklight>
On the other hand
<darklight>
Trying to claim that western culture is white culture and we need to deport the non-whites, yeah, also dumb
<AlterJeb>
the answer is clearly full communism
<Truga>
well, yeah
<darklight>
I find communists and especially groups like antifa hilarious
<Truga>
but people won't realise that until the robbits steal all their jobs
<darklight>
Perhaps I'm wrong, but I don't think it's unfair to say that if you hire a whole heap of illegals for cheap cheap, that you depress the wages for non-illegal non-cheap cheap people :P
<AlterJeb>
plus you're exploiting those illegal workers
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<darklight>
Yeah
<darklight>
And they exploit the country, don't have to pay tax for cash in the hand!
<darklight>
:P
<Truga>
uh
<darklight>
And it kinda spits in the face of people who do the right thing, but w/e
<Truga>
"cash"
<darklight>
Oh yeah
<Truga>
peanuts more often :v
<darklight>
Sometimes people get offered housing for work
<Truga>
but yeah illegal workers aren't really a nationality thing, it happens either way
<darklight>
I actually know a place that does that
<Truga>
the correct way to fix that is more oversight :p
<darklight>
That and deporting them all, w/e :P
<AlterJeb>
no clearly the solution is to dismantle the state! /ancap
<darklight>
AlterJeb: Yes, and replace it with a decision making body!
<darklight>
It's totally not a government guys!
<Truga>
After seven horrible years of ObamaCare (skyrocketing premiums & deductibles, bad healthcare), this is finally your chance for a great plan!
<AlterJeb>
that we all pay in to to keep running
<AlterJeb>
ingenious
<darklight>
"What do you mean I can't have sex with my own kids? GOVT GET OUT REE"
<darklight>
:P
<Truga>
I mean
<darklight>
I find ancaps hilarious, but even more so, ancoms
<Truga>
the solution is to dismantle nations
<darklight>
The idea of an ancom is like an oxymoron
<Truga>
nations are a relic of history some still cling to so they can cling to power
<darklight>
The state seizing the means of production but there is no state
<darklight>
Truga: I'd be happy walking down the ancap path *a little bit*, I think if your government has rules for how many fingers you can stick in an oriface it has clearly gone too far and needs to be wound back
<darklight>
Looking at you UK
<Truga>
what
<darklight>
You've not heard of the 4 finger rule?
<darklight>
But I don't think you can upend it and expect a utopia
<Truga>
no I'm for as little regulation as possible personally
<Truga>
people should do what they think is good
<Truga>
just uh...
<darklight>
I think that's a nice thing to strive for
<Truga>
abolish personal property while at it
<Truga>
err
<Truga>
private*
<Truga>
not personal
<darklight>
That is were we would part ways :P
<darklight>
But yeah, hilariously, trump has required for every regulation enacted, two must be scrapped iirc
<darklight>
So I guess that is his attempt at small government? He ain't a small government guy
<darklight>
Oh that was actually an executive order
<AlterJeb>
oh man
<AlterJeb>
classic trumpism
<darklight>
I do think trump is a bumbling idiot, although a lucky one
<darklight>
Although some would paint him to be a master of 4d chess :P
<Truga>
tbh
<Truga>
we're steaming towards heavy duty socialism pretty fast
<Truga>
there's people working two jobs barely able to afford living etc
<Truga>
we're going to need at least some kind of universal income soon
<Truga>
preferably before automation takes all the people already having trouble and puts them on the streets
<darklight>
I think there's a strong argument to be made for universal basic income, but I can't shake the feeling it will collapse under its own weight
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<darklight>
I wouldn't mind it so long as a different country does it first
<Truga>
lol
<AlterJeb>
I wouldn't mind it if we were first
<Glass|phone>
darklight: you don't need a literal hitler 2.0 to have a bad day
<AlterJeb>
estimates say it would cost less than the beurocratic nightmare they've turned our different unemployment and welfare programs into
<AlterJeb>
(norway)
<Truga>
yep
<Truga>
but norway isn't afraid of taxing their people as hell
<AlterJeb>
yeah
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<AlterJeb>
and corporations
<darklight>
Glass|phone: I'm aware of that. If things get bad enough they'll turn to anyone who has a solution, even if it is a final one.
<darklight>
Luckily we aren't there yet
<Greys>
yay future
<darklight>
o/ Greys
<Glass|phone>
darklight: I wonder what is gonna happen with the german federal elections near the end of this year
<darklight>
Nothing, AfD aren't anywhere close to getting a majority afaik
<darklight>
The frogs little future rests in pepe le pen
<Truga>
AfD has been in a free-fall since roughly januarth 20th
<Truga>
:D
<Truga>
january*
<Glass|phone>
I don't even know who to vote for, all parties are dumb, some are dumber
<Greys>
today is the last day of my first week at this job, things feel to have been going well
<Truga>
cyan is AfD
<Truga>
if in doubt, vote for people who aren't advocating killing other people.
<Truga>
i.e. the less dumb party
<darklight>
Greys, I posted something while you were gone
<darklight>
[22:05] <darklight> Anyway, the point I want to get across to greys is to get familiar with identity politics as a concept, and then go look at the alt righty people, and understand why they exist
<darklight>
[22:05] <darklight> Then it's easy to see where everything is going wrong :P
<Glass|phone>
Truga: what the fuck did the SPD do
<darklight>
Richard spencer at the least, he's the atlantics boogey man, and if you want to understand these people, go look at him
<Greys>
the alt righty people are literally the most recent semisuccessful incarnation of neonazism
<darklight>
In a way yes
<darklight>
You'd be better off calling them ethno-nationalists
<Truga>
Glass|phone mostly just not suck
<darklight>
or simply white-nationalists
<AlterJeb>
I think the key thing they did was not be the CDU
<Truga>
and said some populist shit
<Glass|phone>
darklight: tldr on identity politics
<Greys>
in what way would me calling them that change how well off I am
<Truga>
it's not good politics, but it's not terrible politics for a change so
<Truga>
:D
<darklight>
AlterJeb: The CDU is the -<>- lady correct?
<darklight>
Merkel
<darklight>
The hillary clinton of germany :P
<AlterJeb>
yes
<Truga>
merkel has little in common with hillary tbh
<Greys>
herkery clerkle
<Glass|phone>
there really isn't that much of a person cult around german politicians
<Truga>
thank goodness
<darklight>
Glass|phone: They see "we need diversity", which they'll believe basically means not white (which is true tbh), and then go "the white identity is under attack so let's unite on this and couner this"
<darklight>
It's less "let's kill the jews" and more "let's build an ethnostate", although I am unsure of their desired approach to that
<darklight>
Which I'm sure will result in lots of death :P
<Glass|phone>
darklight: so basically they define themselves by how similar the vaginas they came out were
<darklight>
Sure
<darklight>
These people are all about that 23andme test
<Glass|phone>
I mean, if other than being born you haven't achieved anything in life, sure, go ahead and define yourself by your origin
<darklight>
Ding ding ding! you're getting it! :P
<darklight>
It's what they are seeing on the other side, and instead of rejecting the game, are playing their side
<Greys>
anyway darklight, you understand that my point was not to make a comparison between hitler and trump, but to point out that hitler was not an instantaneous moment so we must be concerned with the slope that Trump, or any problematic ruler, represents
<Truga>
tbh trump already lost
<Greys>
another significant point is that hitler was a figurehead, he himself took few actions, so we must be be concerned with the behavior of those who act under his banner
<Truga>
if he was patent and did things at a slow pace for 4 years, we'd have a nice fascist election for supreme chancellor of america in 2020
<darklight>
Truga: What has he lost? He is kinda sitting in the white house chair
<Truga>
but he blew his load all over the white house in the first 40 days and ayyyy
<Truga>
darklight have you seen the clusterfuck of the last 2 months, jesus christ
<Greys>
well, congratulations truga, you have created today's supreme non-conversation.
<Greys>
moving on
<darklight>
Truga: I have watched the press briefings, but yeah
<TheKosmonaut>
Ooh
<darklight>
If you mean the "muslim" ban, sure
<darklight>
That's a clusterfuck
<Truga>
no, I mean
* TheKosmonaut
watches and gets popcorn
<TheKosmonaut>
Dis gon be good
<Truga>
have you seen the last 2 tweets he just did?
<Truga>
he's not even in touch with reality anymore
<Truga>
he's gone off the deep end, and now he's shitting on republicans even
<darklight>
Truga: Don't report on tweets
<Greys>
yanno how sometimes the racist uncle says a thing that's just so useless of a statement that disputing or agreeing with any aspect of it would be a waste of every sentient mind's time
<darklight>
My god twitter is killing journalism as we know it
<Truga>
umm
<Truga>
no, twitter is cool and good
<Truga>
because donny is on it, and it's the funniest thing ever
<Greys>
twitter is failing as a business and probably will not exist within five years
<Greys>
Trump will be the president who let twitter die
<darklight>
"After seven horrible years of ObamaCare (skyrocketing premiums & deductibles, bad healthcare), this is finally your chance for a great plan!"
<Greys>
(twitter having killed itself of course)
<darklight>
Are you saying that obamacare has done wonders to the healthcare industry and everything is fine and dandy?
<Greys>
obamacare saves lives
<Truga>
^
<darklight>
I'm mostly unfamilair with however the fuck you guys do it, but here, hospitals are free
<darklight>
I ain't forced to pay for private health care
<Truga>
darklight I'm not from the US, but obamacare is better than don'tcare
<Greys>
we want that, but the republicans are against it
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<Truga>
have you seen what trumpcare is?
<Greys>
because republican is code for "I don't understand the scope that capitalism and socialism exist within, and am unwilling to consider socialism as a valid option in any situation"
<darklight>
Truga: I think you mean "The greatest healthcare act of 2017"
<Greys>
it's not trumpcare, he doesn't want to be associated with it
<Truga>
I'll give you a hint: it's a tax break for the richest, and is going to kill thousands, if not millions, by taking away their healthcare
<Truga>
Greys all the more reason to call it trumpcare
<Truga>
or rather
<Truga>
trumpdon'tcare lol
<MobileFox>
!tell Majiir yanno, I think CL iS a better Rihanna than she is a Lady Gaga. She has too much of a bad bitch feel to be Lady Gaga
<Qboid>
MobileFox: I'll redirect this as soon as they are around.
<Greys>
it will take care away from millions, most of them won't die
<Greys>
hundreds of thousands dead, sure
<darklight>
Yeah, I've not read it and don't care, for the richest country in the world you've fucked up your health system
<Greys>
less than ten hundreds
<Greys>
darklight, go watch johnny english's coverage of it, and then the healthcare triage episode
<kmath>
YouTube - The American Health Care Act: A Republican Response to The Affordable Care Act
<darklight>
I'm watching john oliver
<Greys>
I'm pretty sure this is the HCT episode that goes over the senate budget analysis of the HACA
<Truga>
AHCA got changed twice in the past 2 days tho
<Greys>
HCT did a lot of episodes about this topic in semi-realtime
<Truga>
because the super radical conservative republicans didn't want healthcare
<darklight>
I'm aware
<darklight>
They are dumb
<Truga>
so pretty much everything healthcare got pulled out, and then obviously nobody else voted for it either
<Truga>
so now it's dead
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<Truga>
for a few weeks anyway
<Greys>
I consider HCT to be capable of being unbias, and their senate analysis was particularly so as they were reading a government report
<MobileFox>
So like, does the winning party get full control over whether bills pass or not?
<darklight>
Ok seriously, you guys have medicaid iirc/
<darklight>
Like our medicare
<Greys>
MobileFox, it's not that simple
<darklight>
Why not just expand that?
<darklight>
Why does obamacare even *exist*
<Truga>
medicaid is getting axed
<MobileFox>
Greys, either they have full control or they don't, it's a yes or no
<Greys>
MobileFox, depending on the topic, some things require a majority, some things require 3/5ths, some things require more; and most things must achieve different sorts of majority in two separate houses
<Truga>
MobileFox they do have full controll, but they're super angry at each other right now
<darklight>
I know the way they are going about it is not the normal process
<Greys>
if they win hard enough, they can have enough authority to pull off all the kinds of majority
<Truga>
not least because trump^Wbannon is running things
<darklight>
They are doing the only thing they can, reconcilliation or something?
<Truga>
lol
<Greys>
currently the republicans do not have sufficient winnery in congress to pull off a supermajority
<Greys>
mob therefore they have a l
<Truga>
supermajority is 66% yeah?
<Truga>
if they had that, rip constitution :p
<Greys>
MobileFox therefore they have a lot of power, but not all the power
<Greys>
constitutional changes require state legislatures to vote
<darklight>
Which is why they did out of something that doesn't need a supermajority iirc
<MobileFox>
So look at the Canadian house of Commons and senate, lemme know if it's like that
<darklight>
And why are you talking about constitutional change?
<Greys>
MobileFox, limited bandwidth, can you describe in free text?
<Truga>
nobody is talking about constitutional change
<MobileFox>
All political parties get a say and can deny the bill with enough votes
<MobileFox>
Im in a really intense class rn
<MobileFox>
Not looking at weblinks
<darklight>
Kk, get of irc then :P
<darklight>
AND GET BACK TO WORK
<Greys>
fair
<darklight>
Truga: Has the conservatives called for any changes in the consitution?
<darklight>
Truga: Looking at those two last tweets, that's not even remotely a shitshow of any type
<darklight>
All he's saying is "You have repeatedly stated you are against obamacare, if you don't vote to pass this bill, you are a hypocrit"
<darklight>
Isn't that correct?
<darklight>
I mean it's not how you'd get votes, but he has been meeting with the freedom caucus
<Truga>
you really don't know what's been going on the last few days do you
<Truga>
lmao
<darklight>
No?
<Truga>
it's a shitshow all the way down
<darklight>
I don't really watch tv, because they are still talking about the russians
<Truga>
I don't even have tv
<Truga>
yeah, russians are a big part of everything too
<darklight>
And how the media is still trying to paint the picture that trump literally thinks obama literally went to trump tower and tapped the phone lines personally
<darklight>
To be fair, I'd rather see co-operation
<darklight>
Diplomacy is important yo
<Truga>
between russia and US?
<darklight>
Especially if you're trying to fight a war together
<Truga>
maybe if putin and everyone in his govt dies
<darklight>
Yes
<darklight>
Let me rephrase that
<Truga>
well, that or US goes full fascist
<darklight>
I'd like to see cooperation with russia over say someone like saudi arabia
<Truga>
right now they're kinda incompatible
<Truga>
yeah like I said :p
<MobileFox>
Caucus? More like Cockus
<darklight>
And yeah, russia has done some dumb shit, the most recent thing I can think of was the whole annex chrimea or however you spell it :P
<darklight>
And err, I might have gotten my narritives wrong, but wasn't that part of the USSR, and then they had a vote, agreed to join russia, and then some crazy overthrow thing happened?
* darklight
forgets exactly
<Truga>
the "votes" in russia controlled territories are spotty at best
<darklight>
96% pro russian
<Truga>
reminder: the last russian election had a 113% or somesuch participation
<darklight>
And yes, of course there is reason to doubt the legitamcy
<Greys>
showered, what' I miss
<darklight>
But yeah, I'd rather work with what is essentially a western country rather than the gulf states :P
<darklight>
Fuck those guys haha
<Greys>
btw, as part of my job I have to fill out a long form, it's currently in the format of a text document that I cannot reorder, and it is not in the order that the items are checked; I would like to have some software that permits me to fill out a propper linear form, with fields, that then outputs a text file meeting their criteria; any of you know know a good piece of software for doing this?
<Truga>
anyway, healthcare is way too communist for the traditional republican members so it's never going to pass in anything less than "kill all the sick&poor"
<MobileFox>
Ayyy my switch got delivered, now to wait until 3-4 to get home
<darklight>
Greys: Make something specialised?
<Greys>
yea maybe
<Truga>
I kinda want a switch
<Truga>
but I hear the battery life kinda sucks?
<Truga>
that's a bummer.
<Greys>
this job has two key duties, perform this check list every 2~4 hours, and watch the help desk/phone
<Greys>
battery life always sucks while gaming
<AlterJeb>
I'm sure american society will collapse on the road to never and the transformed society may eventually get univeral healthcare :3
<Greys>
if you game on a big laptop, battery life will suck
<Truga>
Greys my vita holds for 6-8 hours while gaming
<Truga>
sometimes more
<Truga>
so no
<Greys>
it can charge from USB-C so you can get a huge battery bank to extend that life
<Greys>
vita is crap
<Truga>
it's actually great
<Greys>
your face is great
<Truga>
yes
<Greys>
your welcome
<Greys>
is on fire
<MobileFox>
Greys, I have a 10,000mAh battery
<Greys>
coolstory#
<Truga>
anyway point being, if I'm at home and want to game I'll game on my pc anyway, I'd want something portable that plays games that aren't shitty phone games
<Truga>
and with the battery life being crap, that kinda means no
<MobileFox>
Greys, that's neat, a reverse hashtag
<darklight>
MobileFox: Reverse hashtags don't exist, they are simply called "hashtags" :3
<Greys>
it's called a humbletag
<Greys>
brady haran invented them
<Truga>
but yeah even my stupid chomebook has a better battery life while gaming than the switch :(
<Truga>
I guess I could charge it from the chomebook?
<Greys>
it's also larger and less powerful
<Truga>
uh
<Truga>
larger? sure
<Truga>
less powerful? hahahaha no
<Greys>
how is it that nobody has posted an article with a table of switch specs and vita specs side by side
<Greys>
there's not eve an image doing that
<Truga>
because a switch is way more powerful, seeing how it's like 5 years newer?
<Greys>
also, has anybody released a switch battery case yet?
<MobileFox>
Nope
<Truga>
I mean, I guess you could
<Greys>
china, get on this
<Truga>
but most people won't care
<Truga>
vita is dead anyway :p
<MobileFox>
Greys, it's hard because the charging port is on the bottom
<Greys>
people will care because: the switch's charge port is on the bottom, the battery life is not great, and the kickstand is clever but poorly suited
<Truga>
I mean vita and switch comparison
<Greys>
you care
<MobileFox>
I cared enough to spend 20$ to get a usb c cable with 1 day shipping
<Truga>
yeah but I'm special
<Truga>
most people don't even have a vita :p
<Truga>
which is unfortunate, it's a great portable thing, but sony kinda dropped it because it didn't sell super well early or something
<Truga>
lol
<Greys>
with a battery case you can pretty easily route in wires for the charge port so the chin is small, and you can still mount the charge port pretty strong
<Greys>
Truga, go to japan
<Truga>
I will
<Truga>
in a couple years
<Greys>
good
<Greys>
I hope you die before the sun
<Truga>
wat
<MobileFox>
Same
<darklight>
Greys, if you are bored for 10 minutes, learn how this guy argues and thinks: Greys, you'd be a lot better at bants if you understand this guy https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ni_6sISHnqQ - then we can bants more :D
<kmath>
YouTube - White nationalist Richard Spencer talks to Al Jazeera
<Greys>
you could probably build a battery case with a good 10~30Wh of battery that would only double the thickness of the switch, and give a better stand, without making it crazy heavy; I'm real surprized china isn't on this one
<darklight>
Ah god
<Greys>
darklight, can't youtube till next month
<darklight>
Copy paste fail, but roughly right
<darklight>
It's literally the media's boogey man :3
<Greys>
I have 5 gigs to go maybe 8 days; monday night I'll be alone for 8 hours at work, I can waste time then, but I don't want to burn my data this early
<darklight>
To be fair I wouldn't expect you to watch the guy, but you'd understand why I'm somewhat concerned with these people :P
<Greys>
Truga, if you super wanted a switch and only the battery life was holding you back, how much would you value an additional 10 hours of battery life?
<MobileFox>
10,000mAh gets you like, 2-3 charges of the switch
<Greys>
that's insignificant
<MobileFox>
And that's like, 20-30$
<Greys>
unrelated
<MobileFox>
For the cost it's pretty nice
<Truga>
Greys like I said, I could plug it into the chomebook
<Truga>
which I always carry in my backpack anyway
<Greys>
Truga, the nintendo switch will charge a macbook pro when they're plugged into eachother
<Greys>
your chromebook has a substantial chance of also being the client in that relationship
<Truga>
I can set it to whatever I'm sure :p
<Greys>
not currently
<MobileFox>
Can the chromebook even put out more than 500mA?
<MobileFox>
Because it needs more than 500mA from a usb port
<MobileFox>
Macbook pro assumes anything with charge is a charger
<Greys>
it's a quirk in the USB-C spec, they did not account for the fact that you can plug multiple host type battery powered devices into eachother
<Truga>
it has an usb3 port that can accept or emit something like 60W
<Truga>
so it shouldn't be a problem
<Greys>
just saying it might be
<Truga>
oh
<Truga>
that could be an issue yeah
<Greys>
maybe go to a gamestop and try it?
<Truga>
lol gamestop
<Truga>
there are no gamestops around here :D
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<darklight>
Over 10 amps?
<Greys>
what we'll likely see over the next year is the software in these devices being updated to permit the user to select what direction power flows in a case like this; probably apple first
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<darklight>
Le fuck
<darklight>
Not fucking possible
<MobileFox>
ㅋㅋㅋ
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<Truga>
darklight usb-c cables support up to 100W iirc
<Truga>
probably more if you get a non-spec one
<darklight>
It'd have to be a pretty fucking decent sized cable
<Truga>
yep
<darklight>
Have you pulled apart a normal microusb cable before?
<Truga>
every usb-c cable has to have a chip in it
<darklight>
TINY!
<darklight>
Really?
<Truga>
that tells both sides how much it supports
<Truga>
yep
<Truga>
it's required by spec
<darklight>
Heh
<Truga>
it's great
<darklight>
The way it used to be done is biasing the data lines to like 2v
<Truga>
yep
<Truga>
also resistors and crap
<Truga>
lol
<Greys>
"cables supporting high-power 5 A current (up to 100 W) must contain e-marker chips programmed to identify the cable as being 5A capable. USB Charging ports should also be clearly marked with supported power wattage."
<Truga>
I know at least some vendors put some kind of resistor in their usb chargers, and if your device detected the correct resistance
<Truga>
it'd charge at full power
<Truga>
so as to not fry normal usb ports
<Greys>
amps don't really work like that
<Truga>
so in usb-c now everything just has to have a chip in it that negotiates with devices
<darklight>
Greys: Sure they do
<Greys>
only a poorly designed USB port is capable of over-amping
<darklight>
The client devices have to obey :P
<Truga>
Greys so 99% usb ports out there? :P
<darklight>
I assume usb ports will still have poly fuses?
<Greys>
the client can request more power but a well designed USB bus has only so much amps to give, even if it takes all the power available to the bus the port should survive
<Truga>
yeah
<Greys>
typical USB bus on a desktop has access to 500mA across all it's ports, sometimes there are special ports that are on a higher amperage bus
<Greys>
(USB2)
<Greys>
what the phone is really doing is judging whether the current source is of any quality, because shitty chargers put out shitty power if you ask too much of them; and shitty power can break the phone or degrade the battery
<darklight>
Gigabyte likes the 2.1A ports afaik
<Greys>
USB ports on devices are simply not the problem; it's all about chargers
<Truga>
yes
<Truga>
it's always about shitty $2 chargers from china
<Greys>
and most phones don't check this via resistance, iphones have a chip they talk to and handshake with; a chip in the lightning connector that also does some shit; but android phones do progressive testing
<Truga>
;P
<Truga>
which is why I'm glad there's a real protocol for that now
<darklight>
Chhhiiyyyyyyna
<Greys>
the protocol of course will also make it more difficult for out-of-spec behavior, such as going beyond 100W
<Greys>
there will need to be a shadowspec and somebody will need to make chips that conforms to the normal spec and also responds to the shadow spec correctly; so normal devices don't get mad
<Greys>
and if that really seems to be taking off, we'll probably get USB4, running on USB-C, with more of the channels in use
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<darklight>
Truga: Curious, how familiar are you with the young turks?
<darklight>
I've lately found myself checklng out the dilophasarus from TYT, jimmy dore - he's actually pretty reasonable on his own channel :P