egg|principia|egg changed the topic of #kspmodders to: Welcome to #kspmooders | <Majiir> egg is pretty much just a chickenfetus until you start talking about floating point | <SilverFox> "little" doesn't seem like a real word to me right now
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<Greys>
the main problem with the goauld staff weapon is that their ergonomic design dispermits the application of skill
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<Greys>
I wish there was a depth first crafting option in factorio
<Djohaal___>
are old .mu models incompatible with current KSP?
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<Greys>
I do not recall any update that would have broken compatibility, however there were several glitches that may require extensive changes to the .cfg setup
<Djohaal>
yeah I fixed the cfg. Testing out some weirdness
<Greys>
that is to say, it should work to a degree
<xShadowx>
Djohaal: u5 cant use concave colliders, so answer is yes and no, model dependant, not format dependant
<Djohaal>
hm, probably means this is broken then, pretty likely it uses concave colliders
<xShadowx>
could always edit the model in blender (free) and remove the concave colliders
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<Djohaal>
yeah I might as well. Been postponing learning how to blender
<Djohaal>
trying to ressurect the weyland hyperring
<kmath>
YouTube - [MV] Girl's Day(걸스데이) _ I'll be yours
<Majiir>
"gfriend"
<SilverFox>
girls day
<SilverFox>
not gfriend, my bad
<Majiir>
three weeks in gulag for that mixup
<SilverFox>
pffft
<Majiir>
bruv they're not even in the same generation of girl groups
<SilverFox>
I dont like the look of girls day
<SilverFox>
they confuse my brain
<Majiir>
You're wrong about many things
<SilverFox>
they're stuck in a limbo between sexy and cute
<SilverFox>
it challenges my world views and I dont like it
<Majiir>
Girls Day went full sexy years ago
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<SilverFox>
is English grammar easier than korean?
<Majiir>
For English speakers yes
<Majiir>
For Korean speakers probably not
<SilverFox>
for non english speakers
<Majiir>
For German speakers probably yes
<Majiir>
For Japanese speakers probably not
<SilverFox>
without prior learning of language
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<Majiir>
Hmmmm I dunno, why don't you go ask someone who's never learned a language how hard it is to learn Korean
<Majiir>
Oh wait
<SilverFox>
is english grammar on its own merit difficult to learn
<Majiir>
What makes you think that's even an answerable question?
<SilverFox>
linguists
<SilverFox>
I need to find linguists
<Majiir>
Have you ever *talked* to a linguist?
<Majiir>
Trust me, you don't want to talk to a linguist about this shit
<SilverFox>
idk
<SilverFox>
im already dead inside
<Majiir>
Linguists are divided on whether that question makes you literally Hitler or only figuratively Hitler
<SilverFox>
asking if a language on its own merit is difficult to learn is comparable to hitler?
<Majiir>
Turns out it's rather hard to find linguists I have any common ground with, since they all go on to become things like "data scientists" instead of linguistics professors
<Majiir>
I had this really fucking weird semester where I was taking a linguistics class and also a grad-level natural language processing class
<SilverFox>
that sounds like a waste of passion
<Majiir>
The linguistics class kept teaching me that computers were incapable of learning language
<SilverFox>
pfffffft
<Majiir>
Then in the NLP class we went and just fucking did it
<Majiir>
So here's the thing with linguists
<Majiir>
They are VERY wrapped up in whatever they can experimentally verify
<Majiir>
They're really not interested in theory or possibilities
<Majiir>
They reject that stuff
<SilverFox>
sounds like a not-science
<Majiir>
A lot of linguists are basically sociologists or anthropologists who want to pretend they're more sciency
<Majiir>
Eh, experimentation is science
<SilverFox>
half-science
<Majiir>
but a lot of linguists go from "we haven't figured out how to verify this" and interpret it as "it's unverifiable" which quickly turns into "it's wrong"
<SilverFox>
experimentation is a symptom of theories
<SilverFox>
that sounds like a very bad approach to that
<Majiir>
Welcome to linguistics
<Majiir>
So here's the fun part
<Majiir>
Most modern linguists vehemently reject something called the Whorf hypothesis
<SilverFox>
OH
<SilverFox>
that sounds familiar
<Majiir>
Informally, this is the notion that the language a person speaks can impact the way that person thinks
<Majiir>
Linguists fucking hate this guy
<Djohaal>
why?
<Majiir>
There are a few reasons
<Djohaal>
I'd expect the opposite, general humanities and anthropology have this fetish for having every single of their little shitty polynesian tribe being snowflake special. Another anthropologist I recall the name got a lot of flak by saying some emotions are truly universal
<Djohaal>
I don't recall the name
<Djohaal>
paul eckman I think
<Majiir>
A large part of this is more political correctness but just in the other direction
<Majiir>
Linguists love to preserve languages
<Majiir>
so if one language can be said to actually be _better_ than another, that's a huge goddamn problem
<SilverFox>
well yes
<Majiir>
No like
<Majiir>
We're not talking about preserving French here
<Majiir>
We're talking about preserving languages that less than 100 people on Earth still speak
<SilverFox>
a changing language means they have to keep learning
<Majiir>
We're not talking about keeping languages static either
<Majiir>
Linguists just have this fetish for having thousands of languages out there
<SilverFox>
so just keeping languages alive then?
<Majiir>
Part of the rejection of the Whorf hypothesis is that there has been some experimentation on this, and it doesn't show convincingly that Whorf's ideas (or Sapir or any of the other dudes who worked on this same stuff) were completely right
<Majiir>
But that makes up a small minority of the linguists who shit on the guy
<Majiir>
Most linguists are bandwagoning or taking the politically correct stance
<Majiir>
Along with this comes the idea that languages are inherently the *same* in terms of their "power"
<Majiir>
Linguists will often tell you without any evidence that all languages can express the same ideas and are *just as good* at expressing those ideas, but just do it differently
<SilverFox>
I totally wouldnt be surprised if language affects how you think
<Majiir>
They also love to say that languages are equally easy to learn
<SilverFox>
I want to say that's false
<Majiir>
Now there is a lot of evidence that the *typical* examples of a language being "hard" are wrong
<Majiir>
FOR EXAMPLE
<Djohaal>
Majiir, please deduct the laws of newton and calculus using that language from amazon whose numbers are "one, two, three, many"
<Majiir>
Spanish is not hard to learn because it's spoken quickly
<Majiir>
Chinese is not hard to learn because it's tonal
<Majiir>
etc
<Majiir>
(Those above all apply to *native* learners)
<SilverFox>
because some have different levels of semantics and honorifics and some are just chock-full of thousajnds of characters to memorize
<Majiir>
For native learning, a lot of that stuff is easy because, duh, you're a native learner
<SilverFox>
obvs
<Djohaal>
those folks from that tribe that can't count suck at arithmietics, and teaching them a proper number system proved impossible IIRC
<Djohaal>
but kids that grew up in civlization developed just fine, wasn't a genetic thingy
<Majiir>
Djohaal, there are some cases of languages that don't use directions like left/right/forward/back and instead they typically only talk in east/west/etc. Guess who's really good at navigation?
<Djohaal>
and that linguistics bullshit collides front-on with psychiatry's working model. For all purposes in psychiatry thought -is- language
<Djohaal>
Majiir, bingo
<Majiir>
Thing is, it's not entirely clear-cut
<Majiir>
We especially cannot make predictions
<Majiir>
We cannot say things like: "Internet" is a word that originated in English, therefore English speakers are better at dank memes
<Majiir>
That's the kind of horseshit that linguists quite rightly would reject
<SilverFox>
good
<Majiir>
Back to Fox's original question
<Majiir>
All of this "languages are equally good and powerful and hard"
<SilverFox>
isnt that a sort of cause-effect unrelation?
<Majiir>
means that asking whether it's hard or easy to learn a language is a *very* charged question in linguistics
<Majiir>
Mostly you'll be met with "no it's about the same for native speakers"
<Majiir>
because we don't really hear of languages where children struggle to learn to speak
<Majiir>
It's much easier to talk about what's easy *for a specific language you already know*
<SilverFox>
but you can analyze language to see where the difficulties may lay
<Majiir>
If you speak English, learning Spanish is easier than Korean, pretty much always
<SilverFox>
well yes, not because it's hard, but because it's different
<Majiir>
If you speak Japanese, learning Korean is easier than learning German -- even though Japanese and Korean aren't actually related (which is itself a very controversial topic)
<SilverFox>
I want to exclude this difference from the equation
<Majiir>
So there's the problem
<Majiir>
What's the baseline?
<Majiir>
What's the most "neutral" language?
<Majiir>
I'd say not knowing a language is the most neutral, but --
<Majiir>
How do you measure the difficulty of learning your *first* language?
<Majiir>
You could, say, take two kids, have them learn different languages, and then compare their language abilities
<SilverFox>
how many exce;ptions there are, how often those exceptions are used, things that would be ambiguous, grammatical rules that are spotty, having too many characters to learn
<Majiir>
But now, you have to be able to compare abilities between two languages
<Majiir>
But how do you compare abilities when every linguist is telling you that all languages have the same expressive power??
<Majiir>
There's no simple way to approach this
<Majiir>
and trying to use "exceptions" is going to be fruitless
<Majiir>
You know what has a really simple grammar? Programming languages
<Majiir>
You know what people don't speak? Programming languages.
<Majiir>
These are languages with simple grammars that are so hard to use that it's automatic 6 figure salary if you can.
<SilverFox>
heh
<Majiir>
Category I language: 95 or higher (French, Italian, Portuguese, and Spanish)
<Majiir>
Category II language: 100 or higher (German, Indonesian)
<Majiir>
Category III language: 105 or higher (Hebrew, Hindi, Persian Farsi, Dari, Punjabi, Russian, Serbian/Croatian, Tagalog, Thai, Turkish, Uzbek, and Urdu)
<Majiir>
Category IV language: 110 or higher (Modern Standard Arabic, Iraqi Arabic, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, Levantine Arabic and Pashto)
<SilverFox>
do you at least understand what I'm getting at?
<Majiir>
This is the US DoD rating
<Majiir>
so this is for English speakers, what's easy and hard
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<Majiir>
I get what you're getting at, but it's all wrong
<Majiir>
You can't gauge a language by some kind of checklist
<Majiir>
because you might say "oh, tonal, that's *hard*"
<Majiir>
but not for a Chinese kid
<Majiir>
meanwhile you're like "oh, alphabet, easy" and he's got no fucking clue
<Majiir>
You're also probably hopelessly unaware of all the things that make English hard for non-speakers
<Majiir>
and all those "exceptions" that you take for granted as just how the language is
<SilverFox>
tonality adds to the difficulty, as does alphabet. Basically looking for the language with the most to learn to be fkuent
<Majiir>
Native speakers are often really bad teachers because they don't understand their own language at a deep level
<Majiir>
No, those things don't add difficulty
<Majiir>
They might add _complexity_ but that's a veeeeeeeery shaky argument
<Majiir>
You're looking for something that, in 2017, does not exist
<SilverFox>
perhaps that might be a better word to use
<SilverFox>
which language is most complex
<r4m0n>
if it's not there, create it
<Majiir>
We don't have any good mechanisms for measuring language complexity that I know of
<SilverFox>
ahh
<Supernovy>
English is the best language
<SilverFox>
pffffft
<r4m0n>
there are a few sttributes most people would agree are harder or easier
<Majiir>
You can measure certain aspects of a language
<Supernovy>
prove me wrong protip: you can't
<Majiir>
Like you can measure the number of words in a typical speaker's vocabulary
<SilverFox>
I agree and disagree novy
<Majiir>
Or the number of distinct phenomes
<Majiir>
English is probably ""harder"" than Korean in terms of phenology
<Majiir>
just as a guess
<Majiir>
phonology* apparently
<SilverFox>
I agree
<r4m0n>
IIRC vocabulary size is mostly stable among languages, at least for the common use
<SilverFox>
by stable do you mean comparable?
<r4m0n>
yeah
<Majiir>
jesus I just looked it up and yeah, English is waaay more complex than Korean in terms of phonology
<SilverFox>
well yeah
<Majiir>
but the way Fox talks about it, Korean is sooooooo hard to pronounce
<r4m0n>
english is a mess phonetically
<SilverFox>
what?
<SilverFox>
there are like, 2 characters I cant pronounce correctly in korean, maybe 3
<SilverFox>
it's not that hard
<Majiir>
Korean in particular reinforced my general fuck-off-linguists view
<Glass|phone>
why is japanese in the most difficult category
<r4m0n>
alphabet
<r4m0n>
ideographic languages all go there XD
<Majiir>
because at this point Korean is a partly engineered language, which gets at another whole linguist nightmare
<SilverFox>
different grammar, alphabet, honorifics. those three things probs had a big pplay in that
<Glass|phone>
but there's kana which is easy enough
<Majiir>
"honorifics" oh plz
<Majiir>
honorifics are not hard
<Glass|phone>
and no irregular verbs
<SilverFox>
its something english doesnt have
<r4m0n>
kana has 200+ chars to the 30's of latin languages
<SilverFox>
so it adds to it, not by much, but it does
<SilverFox>
I found 20 usable honorifics for the verb 먹다
<SilverFox>
at least, conjugations of such
<Majiir>
Native speakers don't think about conjugations or irregulars
<Majiir>
Spoiler: English has those
<Majiir>
There's another reason finding "objective" language difficulty is pretty hard
<SilverFox>
that's fun and great for them, but not for the english speakers learning it
<Glass|phone>
r4m0n: 2*46 is over 200? also latin alphabet has every letter twice as well
<SilverFox>
I have to be able to recognize 20 different endings to the same fuckin word. so you know what I do now? I just pay attention to the roots and not give a shit about what's after it
<Majiir>
Fox, you really don't have to be able to at all
<Majiir>
You need to know, like, three
<Majiir>
And if you see something you don't recognize, OH WELL. It'll be close enough.
<r4m0n>
Glass|phone: you aren't counting the variants on kana, but even like that, kana has easily twice the chars as latin
<SilverFox>
also what about hiragana?
<r4m0n>
diacritics on latin alphabets usually don't have such drastic modifiers on sounds like the kana modifiers either
<Majiir>
That list is the DoD's idea of how hard it is to train some fucking marines how to speak Japanese
<r4m0n>
hiragana goes as kana as well
<Majiir>
Spanish is easier because guess what you have to learn to draw? A fucking squiggly line over the N
<Glass|phone>
I dunno, I always found the modifiers logical and easy to use
<r4m0n>
changing the consonants looks pretty extreme to me XD
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<Glass|phone>
my main problem is kanji and the fact that there are fucktons of vocabulary I don't know
<r4m0n>
vocab is hard to build in any language. the different charsets is what makes it harder to build up
<Glass|phone>
And that my non-classroom speaking experience is somewhat limited
<r4m0n>
and different phonemes, if you don't already know those
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<Glass|phone>
r4m0n: the thing with japanese is that kanji makes it both easy and hard
<r4m0n>
a 1000 kanji to learn to read/write like a kid is harsh
<Glass|phone>
many words are completely logical combinations of two kanji, so if you know the kanji you know the word
<Glass|phone>
r4m0n: it's the digital age, you don't actually have to know how to write anymore
<r4m0n>
I find it still helps to memorize the forms... (but then again, I already fully learned and forgot hiragana/katakana twice)
<Glass|phone>
of course it does
<Glass|phone>
btw as you might not know, I live in japan for 1.5 years now
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<r4m0n>
you need to go outside and force people talk to you more :-P
<Glass|phone>
I know
<SilverFox>
Glass|phone, try HelloTalk. It's an app I use for talking with Koreans, great way for conversation and shit
<Glass|phone>
I have my next school for that
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<G-Munster>
I need a tasking app that permits N hourly repetition, and supports escallating notifications
<G-Munster>
Also it needs to schedule the next instance only when the current instance is completed
<G-Munster>
Most tasking apps only support rigid occurrence, and many don't support hourly at all, and all of the ones I've tried so far that do, only support 1 hour periodicity
<G-Munster>
i have a task to do every 2~4 hours, so I want to be reminded starting at 2 and more frequently to 4, and what matters is the time between not alignment to a predetermined schedule
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<G-Magic>
I don't have a development environment set up here, and cant vnc home right now, I will have to look into changing this
<SilverFox>
so I figured out the desync problem with the joycons
<SilverFox>
they're just suuuper susceptible to interference
<G-Magic>
Also the antenna positioning is rather poor so several common grip postures can obscure the antenna
<G-Magic>
ifixit did a thing where they extended the antenna to a different place and nearly eliminated the issue
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<SilverFox>
nice error codes yo
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<G-Magic>
What are they?
<G-Magic>
If someone told you that they have a modern multilevel website hosting system, and that their webserver image is 72gb, how hard would you laugh
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<darklight>
o/
<darklight>
Eye hit us, lost power and our powerline is on the ground, it blew its ring out but no damage to property here, apart from a bazillion trees I need to clean up when it passes
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<G-Munster>
Erased is getting a live action adaptation
<G-Munster>
which isnt super weird
<G-Munster>
butthenitsanetflixproduction
<G-Munster>
taghash#
<G-Munster>
Boruto exists?
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<adasda>
hilo
<adasda>
exit
<adasda>
quit
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<SilverFox>
for doing things like math, is C, C++, or C# faster? or are all the basic math ops the same within the languages?
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<Supernovy>
I'd guess lower level would be faster.\
<SilverFox>
that's what Im thinking as well
<SilverFox>
but maybe because its math ops that it gets compiled into the same shit at the end of the day
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<Supernovy>
maybe.
<G-Magic>
Math libs should be extremely optimized, but your reference and type overhead cant be ignored, so OOP is probably a bit slower and strictness probably matters but I dont know which way
<SilverFox>
yeah but maybe the compiler goes passed that OOP shit in the end cause working with math
<SilverFox>
WE NEED THE JIIR, or egg
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<Supernovy>
yeah OOP
<Supernovy>
It's harder on the thingy because it eats the object instead of just pooping out a point on an array
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<SilverFox>
"I just took a hit off my G pen and drank some dr pepper and it tasted like tuna fish and mayonnaise" "Pretty sure im having a stroke" "Can I use you as a reference for a job application to GameStop?"
<SilverFox>
what a wild ride
<SilverFox>
"Simulating the ocean is hard. Simulating a face is harder" yeah k bud
<SilverFox>
every post is worth reading, every comment too
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<Thorbane>
It's a trainwreck of unimaginable proportions, isn't it.
<SilverFox>
"If you have a sister, YOU ARE ENTITLED TO A GIRLFRIEND"
<SilverFox>
pfffffffffft
<SilverFox>
"Made a discord" "Are females allowed?" "sure i guess" "But I dont want them there" "nvm then lol"
<SilverFox>
I need to send this thread to oncology
<SilverFox>
MAJUUUUUUU
<Majiir>
no
<SilverFox>
ok
<Majiir>
2d20 -- dc15 with advantage for greek food
<Soozee>
Majiir: 20+14 => 34
<Majiir>
aaaaand nat 20, greek it is
<Majiir>
2d20 -- ..... dc19 for korean override
<Soozee>
Majiir: 18+16 => 34
<Majiir>
close
<SilverFox>
you obtain greek food so majestic, it brings Greece out of poverty
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<Majiir>
It's not *that* good
<Majiir>
nor that expensive
<SilverFox>
it was a 20, so I yeah
<Majiir>
Greece has a lot of denbts yo
<Majiir>
But this isn't from Greece, it's from a few blocks away
<Majiir>
dc13 -- gyro
<Majiir>
d20 -- dc13 for gyro
<Soozee>
Majiir: 5
<Majiir>
ok, no gyro
<Majiir>
d20 -- dc18 combo for 2
<Soozee>
Majiir: 3
<Majiir>
man
<Majiir>
All the high rolls on picking Greek, and then she's gonna make me starve
<Majiir>
d20 -- dc2 Galaktoboureko I SWEAR TO GOD IF YOU DON'T LET ME HAVE THIS
<Soozee>
Majiir: 19
<Majiir>
good girl
<SilverFox>
whatevs, are the basic math shits in C/C++/C# all the same after compilation? Like.. if you time them properly, do they all compile to the same shit?
<Majiir>
no
<SilverFox>
like, 1+1 should be pretty straight forward
<Majiir>
C# doesn't even compile to the same language as C/C++
<egg>
Majiir: do you think I should point SilverFox to godbolt, or would the confusion be more infuriating than entertaining
<Majiir>
I doubt that would be productive
<Majiir>
Fox, in most languages, "1+1" compiles to "2"
<egg>
Majiir: something something FORTRAN
* egg
assigns to 1
<egg>
1 = 42
<SilverFox>
Majiir, makes sense that they would take harcoded maths and just compile the answer in
<SilverFox>
I forgot about that
<Majiir>
@let data Egg = Zzz Egg; instance Eq Egg where egg == robin = False
<Soozee>
Defined.
<Majiir>
@let egg = Zzz egg;
<Soozee>
.L.hs:93:1:
<Soozee>
Multiple declarations of ‘egg’
<Soozee>
Declared at: .L.hs:87:1
<Majiir>
Orly
<egg>
> egg
<Majiir>
:t egg
<Soozee>
mueval-core: Time limit exceeded
<Soozee>
t
<Majiir>
Right, egg is any type
<Majiir>
Well that's handy
<Majiir>
> (egg :: Egg) == egg
<Soozee>
False
<SilverFox>
so egg is like a stem cell
<Majiir>
> (egg :: Int) == egg
<Soozee>
mueval-core: Time limit exceeded
<Majiir>
That makes a modicum of sense
<egg>
O_o
<Majiir>
If egg is an egg, we can determine that egg != egg
<Majiir>
But if egg is an integer, it takes too long
<egg>
oookay
<SilverFox>
this is entertaining
<egg>
this is pinging
egg is now known as egg|paradoxical|egg
fcbayerndm has quit [Quit: fcbayerndm]
<Majiir>
The neat thing is that with (a == b) = False, we automatically get (a /= b) = True
<Majiir>
although this applies for any A and B...
<Majiir>
Things of type Egg simply cannot ever be equal
<Majiir>
You're a special snowflake
<egg|paradoxical|egg>
Majiir: I am not a number
<egg|paradoxical|egg>
(I am a free egg)
<SilverFox>
> (egg :: Char) == egg
<Soozee>
mueval-core: Time limit exceeded
<Majiir>
Is that a challenge?
<egg|paradoxical|egg>
and therefore I compare consistently with that as per IEEE 754
<egg|paradoxical|egg>
all glory to the Kahan
<Majiir>
I bet I could make NaN compatible with Egg
<egg|paradoxical|egg>
Majiir: but what could you do?
<Majiir>
Num instance for Egg
<egg|paradoxical|egg>
yes but whatever you do, what would it imply
<Majiir>
and then specialize egg as an Egg
<Majiir>
I dunno
<egg|paradoxical|egg>
if I am unequal to NaN, that is consistent with being not a number
<egg|paradoxical|egg>
if I am equal to NaN, then I am not a number
<Majiir>
But you would be unequal to every other number :O
<Majiir>
NaN is demonic
<egg|paradoxical|egg>
of course because NaN differs from everything including NaN
<Majiir>
I should make an eq instance that simply inverts equality
fcbayerndm has joined #kspmodders
<Majiir>
Any things that are equal report false for ==
<egg|paradoxical|egg>
All glory to our dark lord Kahan
egg|paradoxical|egg is now known as egg|NaN|egg
<SilverFox>
egg, what is Kahan?
<egg|NaN|egg>
SilverFox: s/what/who
<Qboid>
egg|NaN|egg thinks SilverFox meant to say: egg, who is Kahan?
<egg|NaN|egg>
!w Kahan
<egg|NaN|egg>
!wa Kahan
<Qboid>
egg|NaN|egg: Richard Kahan (actor): date of birth | Thursday, May 15, 1980 (age: 36 years), place of birth | Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
<kmath>
<bofh453> Yeah, I think this is a slight improvement, @eggleroy. https://t.co/8AFT3DWEUC
<Majiir>
After THE EGGCORCIST challenges MORDOR KAHAN, the winner will face TURINGEDDON and ERDOSCIDE
<Majiir>
it's like WWE but with math
<SilverFox>
I'd watch that
<SilverFox>
just to see what it would actually be
<SilverFox>
better be better than Chess Wrestling
<SilverFox>
or was it Chess Boxing?
<Majiir>
Chess boxing is fantastic
* egg
gives Majiir Kahan's one ring
<SilverFox>
glory to Majiir Kahan
* Majiir
disappears into the realm of contradiction
<SilverFox>
wait, I have a question thing
<SilverFox>
let me piece if back together tho
<SilverFox>
oh
<SilverFox>
what is it about korean that made you dislike/hate linguists?
<Majiir>
I hated linguists long before Korean
<SilverFox>
you said last night that korean made you hate linguists
<Majiir>
No
<Majiir>
Korean reinforces a particular hatred I already have for linguists
<SilverFox>
"<Majiir> Korean in particular reinforced my general fuck-off-linguists view" found it, this thing, elaborate
<SilverFox>
I was curious about the why
<Majiir>
Linguists (and by that I mean the academic ones who go on to teach linguistics as opposed to the ones who go off and do _useful things_) love their every-language-is-equally-powerful-and-equally-good-and-equally-hard line
<Majiir>
That falls apart when you can engineer a language and deliberately make improvements to it
<Majiir>
Fully engineered languages exist (e.g. esperanto) but Korean is a good example of a language that has been partially engineered but is also used by a large population
<SilverFox>
right
<Majiir>
I realized I was fucking done with linguistics when they told me computers couldn't deal with generative grammars
<SilverFox>
im guessing they can, and have, for at least 10 years, and there are at least 3 different ways of going about it
<Majiir>
More like 50+ years
<Majiir>
Then it was "Oh a PROGRAMMING language can't be generative"
<Majiir>
again bullshit
<Majiir>
There was some kind of argument about how humans inherently possess some ability to learn language that nothing else can have
<Majiir>
and I'm like nah, pretty sure that's bullshit
<Majiir>
There was no claim about *what* this thing was, by the way
<Majiir>
Just that only humans have it and only humans can EVER have it