egg changed the topic of #principia to: Logs: https://esper.irclog.whitequark.org/principia | <scott_manley> anyone that doubts the wisdom of retrograde bop needs to get the hell out | https://xkcd.com/323/ | <egg> calculating the influence of lamont on Pluto is a bit silly…
<queqiao-> ⟨j​eus⟩ Can mechjeb execute principia nodes?
<queqiao-> ⟨A​l2Me6⟩ Yes (there's a button for it in the maneuver planner), but it doesn't work too well in practice because it doesn't know about ullage.
<queqiao-> ⟨j​eus⟩ alright thanks
<queqiao-> ⟨P​aculino (ŝi/ri/she/they)⟩ I just tested this from the page on inflamation, but clicked the first link to an article not previously visited which was not in parentheses or italics
<queqiao-> ⟨P​aculino (ŝi/ri/she/they)⟩ It did not take very long once I got to linguistics
<queqiao-> ⟨§​κyℓαr ♀⟩ holy the xkcd is true
<queqiao-> ⟨§​κyℓαr ♀⟩ getting to philosophy is surprisingly easy by clicking the first link a bunch
<queqiao-> ⟨§​κyℓαr ♀⟩ and once your their
<queqiao-> ⟨§​κyℓαr ♀⟩ it loops back to itself in just a short hop
<queqiao-> ⟨Q​uadrupole⟩ Reminds me of the recent Veritasium 3x+1 video 😆
<queqiao-> ⟨P​aculino (ŝi/ri/she/they)⟩ Actually, I had to implement the "no going to a link already visited" because I found several loops
<queqiao-> ⟨§​κyℓαr ♀⟩ the hwat
<queqiao-> ⟨§​κyℓαr ♀⟩ hmm, just edit the pages slightly each rime you find the wrong loop, the only loop should be philosophy 😛
<queqiao-> ⟨Q​uadrupole⟩ So 3x+1 is a mathematical hypothesis: for any positive integer, if it is even, divide by two, if it is odd, multiply by three and add one. Continue this process indefinitely and eventually you will always hit 4-2-1 loop.
<queqiao-> ⟨Q​uadrupole⟩ Which is similar to the "philosophy" loop we mentioned previously
<queqiao-> ⟨§​κyℓαr ♀⟩ im surprised that conjecture hasn't been proven huh
<queqiao-> ⟨§​κyℓαr ♀⟩ Its funny how some of the evidently hardest problems are some of the simplest lol
<queqiao-> ⟨P​aculino (ŝi/ri/she/they)⟩ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Millennium_Prize_Problems
<queqiao-> ⟨§​κyℓαr ♀⟩ I love how so much computer shit is based off of an assumption tha p≠np, imagine if they just turn out to be equivelant.
<queqiao-> ⟨P​aculino (ŝi/ri/she/they)⟩ That might explain some computer errors
<queqiao-> ⟨P​aculino (ŝi/ri/she/they)⟩ That might explain some computer errors if true (edited)
<queqiao-> ⟨§​κyℓαr ♀⟩ Well, more of like, for public key encryption and stuff like that
<queqiao-> ⟨Z​ombieZilla⟩ If p=np, will that explain why the maximum command line size is 32,768 characters
<queqiao-> ⟨P​aculino (ŝi/ri/she/they)⟩ I'm more interested in the less valuable knowledge of whether or not the decimal (or even more interesting, only certain rational bases) expansion pi contains every finite sequence of digits
<queqiao-> ⟨§​κyℓαr ♀⟩ If thats the case then the universe could just be a boltzmann brain hiding inside pi 🤔
<queqiao-> ⟨P​aculino (ŝi/ri/she/they)⟩ pi^2 / 6 is infuriatingly close to the squareroot of e
<queqiao-> ⟨§​κyℓαr ♀⟩ reminds me of
<queqiao-> ⟨§​κyℓαr ♀⟩ that one number that was like one away from another number in a completely unrelated field of maths that sone mathmetician conjectured might be related and then was proven right iirc
<queqiao-> ⟨P​aculino (ŝi/ri/she/they)⟩ I have no clue what you are referring to
<queqiao-> ⟨§​κyℓαr ♀⟩ mayb@it wasnt one off but a close number and i cant find it yeet
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<queqiao-> ⟨S​tandecco⟩ the monster group
<queqiao-> ⟨S​tandecco⟩ 3b1b has a video on it, which is probably where you heard it from
<queqiao-> ⟨S​tandecco⟩ can't remember what the 2 numbers were unfortunately
<queqiao-> ⟨§​κyℓαr ♀⟩ ah yes it was from that
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<queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ @§κyℓαr ♀, @Paculino, @ZombieZilla, re. the discussion between 04:18 and 04:23 UTC, please keep rule #5 in mind when posting, please; while #7 (topic) is very loose in this channel, the concepts of the conversation and of contributing something meaningful to it still apply.
<queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ @§κyℓαr ♀, @Paculino, @ZombieZilla, re. the discussion between 04:18 and 04:23 UTC, please keep rule #5 in mind when posting; while #7 (topic) is very loose in this channel, the concepts of the conversation and of contributing something meaningful to it still apply. (edited)
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<queqiao-> ⟨T​exSpace⟩ is there a way to make principia show perigee and apogee instead of periapsis etc.
<queqiao-> ⟨T​exSpace⟩ is there a way to make principia show perigee and apogee instead of periapsis etc.? (edited)
<queqiao-> ⟨S​tonesmile⟩ In what way are they different?
<queqiao-> ⟨T​exSpace⟩ nah that just makes a little bit more realistic
<queqiao-> ⟨S​tonesmile⟩ Periapsis is the general name, there is no way to show body-specific names
<queqiao-> ⟨T​exSpace⟩ ok
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<queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ @TexSpace @Stonesmile this has actually been requested/brought up recently by @ZombieZilla and @Al2Me6. I have a general idea of how it should be done and it’s not profoundly difficult, so it might happen someday https://github.com/mockingbirdnest/Principia/issues/3075
<queqiao-> ⟨Z​eusbeer⟩ Yes that would satisfy the periposeidon enjoyers including me
<queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ well precisely not, because as I mention in there I probably don’t want to go down the periposeidion rout
<queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ (though I suppose once you have a config you can have an MM patch for obscure terms)
<queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ well precisely not, because as I mention in there I probably don’t want to go down the periposeidion route (edited)
<queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ the infinite quirks of various languages are always fun: we always say « Earth orbit », not « terrestrial orbit », even though we say « lunar orbit », but *orbite terrestre* is perfectly normal in french
<queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ the infinite quirks of various languages are always fun: we always say « Earth orbit », not « terrestrial orbit », even though we say « lunar orbit » or « solar orbit », but *orbite terrestre* is perfectly normal in french (edited)
<queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ (I should probably add a French localization of Principia one of these days)
<queqiao-> ⟨Z​ombieZilla⟩ I'm not a coder or anything, but in map_node_pool.cs would it be possible to check what celestial body the vessel is orbiting and then make it spit out a localised string?
<queqiao-> ⟨Z​ombieZilla⟩ ```
<queqiao-> ⟨Z​ombieZilla⟩ switch (properties.object_type) { case MapObject.ObjectType.Periapsis: case MapObject.ObjectType.Apoapsis: { string apsis_name = properties.object_type == MapObject.ObjectType.Periapsis ? Localizer.Format("#Principia_MapNode_Periapsis") : Localizer.Format("#Principia_MapNode_Apoapsis");
<queqiao-> ⟨Z​ombieZilla⟩ ```
<queqiao-> ⟨S​tonesmile⟩ How do you define 'orbiting'?
<queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ Sure? I’m not sure what the question is about here or why you are dumping this (poorly-formatted, you want triple-backticks to retain multiline formatting) code fragment in chat. The technical details are essentially trivial here (you need a configuration that gives you read into dictionaries keyed on the body name for each term—maybe just key it on both the localization key and its body placehol
<queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ The difficulty is linguistic, not technical.
<queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ That’s a difficult question, but it’s what the orbit analyser is about :d
<queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ That’s a difficult question, but it’s what the orbit analyser is about :D (edited)
<queqiao-> ⟨Z​ombieZilla⟩ That's fair, also I guess code formatting doesn't work on mobile, I had the ```cs and everything
<queqiao-> ⟨B​uilderbast⟩ I keep forgetting it every time I update principia, where is the link for the download?
<queqiao-> ⟨S​tonesmile⟩ In the readme
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<queqiao-> ⟨B​uilderbast⟩ cheers, in the readme is the link to grobner, not grossman though?
<queqiao-> ⟨S​tonesmile⟩ In the readme on GitHub?
<queqiao-> ⟨B​uilderbast⟩ I downloaded the grossman release and followed the link in the readme thats in there
<queqiao-> ⟨S​tonesmile⟩ Never download release, go to the readme on GutHub
<queqiao-> ⟨B​uilderbast⟩ those are the same readme's
<queqiao-> ⟨S​tonesmile⟩ Never download release, go to the readme on GitHub (edited)
<queqiao-> ⟨s​cimas⟩ No they aren't. The readme can be updated at any time for any reason - including changing the download links. On the other hand, the tagged releases would be changed only if a seriously game breaking bug is found after the release.
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<queqiao-> ⟨B​uilderbast⟩ Yeah true
<queqiao-> ⟨B​uilderbast⟩ But in this case both readme's are the same, and link grobner
<queqiao-> ⟨A​l2Me6⟩ 🤷‍♂️
<queqiao-> ⟨S​tonesmile⟩ The readme gives me
<queqiao-> ⟨B​uilderbast⟩ Weird, thats the readme from master?
<queqiao-> ⟨S​tonesmile⟩ Yes
<queqiao-> ⟨B​uilderbast⟩ What
<queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ @Builderbast here https://github.com/mockingbirdnest/Principia#principia
<queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ this is the readme
<queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ this is where you find it
<queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ if you are looking somewhere else you are looking in the wrong place
<queqiao-> ⟨B​uilderbast⟩ Well nice that its found :)
<queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ @Builderbast here https://github.com/mockingbirdnest/Principia#readme (edited)
<queqiao-> ⟨B​uilderbast⟩ Could incompatibility issues cause a computer to shut down programs one by one and turn tour monitor off?
<queqiao-> ⟨B​uilderbast⟩ Could incompatibility issues cause a computer to shut down programs one by one and turn your monitor off? (edited)
<queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ what.
<queqiao-> ⟨B​uilderbast⟩ Idk i started up the game and my computer is acting like its posseded lmao
<queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ Principia does not come with any ghosts, so it is unlikely to possess your computer
<queqiao-> ⟨B​uilderbast⟩ Are there any known issues with using the newest version on 1.8.1?
<queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ No, and your computer being possessed by demons is not one of them, and most likely has nothing to do with Principia
<queqiao-> ⟨B​uilderbast⟩ Ik ik
<queqiao-> ⟨A​l2Me6⟩ (In that case, I suggest relocating to #ro-support)
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<queqiao-> ⟨D​amien⟩ Sounds like a ghost in the shell
<queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ 👻🐚
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<queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ @Quadrupole @Al2Me6 experimenting with that idea of an Earth-line-of-sight reference frame
<queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ (Earth is up)
<queqiao-> ⟨A​l2Me6⟩ Ooh
<queqiao-> ⟨S​tonesmile⟩ Ooh, sounds useful for surface ops and similar
<queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ mostly for low orbit ops around other bodies
<queqiao-> ⟨§​κyℓαr ♀⟩ How would that reference frame work? I am a little confused.
<queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ the surface moves in this reference frame, and principia does not touch things on the surface, so I do not think that helps you for that
<queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ The trajectories of third bodies are, uh, Something in this reference frame
<queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ Centred on Mars, the Earth is up, and orientation defined by fixing the direction of celestial North (positive declination) as seen from Earth
<queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ (the horizontal is the plane of the sky at Mars)
<queqiao-> ⟨§​κyℓαr ♀⟩ huh neat
<queqiao-> ⟨Z​eusbeer⟩ I see how this could be useful in some scenarios
<queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ definitely situational though
<queqiao-> ⟨Z​eusbeer⟩ Perhaps the analyser can give total % of LOS
<queqiao-> ⟨Z​eusbeer⟩ Perhaps the analyser can give total % of LOS per revolution (edited)
<queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ not sure how a percentage is useful, tbh, the interesting question is the timing of comms windows
<queqiao-> ⟨Z​eusbeer⟩ yes perhaps the amount of 'dark' time would be more useful
<queqiao-> ⟨Z​eusbeer⟩ yes the amount of 'dark' time would be more useful (edited)
<queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ yeah eclipse duration could be useful (mostly as a duration rather than a percentage though, because what you care about is often endurance so you last through the night, not the average)
<queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ but anyway, back to reference frames, I should probably split the reference frames between « general-purpose things you will always need », i.e., body-centred nonrotating, surface, body-parent-orbit (the orange one), and niche things like this one (or barycentric rotating-pulsating if I ever manage to pinch my nose long enough to add that)
<queqiao-> ⟨Z​eusbeer⟩ What is the use of `barycentric rotating-pulsating` ?
<queqiao-> ⟨Z​eusbeer⟩ What is the use of `barycentric rotating-pulsating` ? It sounds like magic (edited)
<queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ Lagrange points
<queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ the existing barycentric frame is useless
<queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ (I keep meaning to remove it, much to @Damien’s amusement)
<queqiao-> ⟨§​κyℓαr ♀⟩ lagrange points are awesome
<queqiao-> ⟨Z​eusbeer⟩ To be honest I only use reference frames 1 and 2, ever
<queqiao-> ⟨Z​eusbeer⟩ 3 seems weird and 4 seems not that much more useful than 2
<queqiao-> ⟨D​amien⟩ cast it into the fires of mount doom
<queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ wait what, 4 has nothing to do with 2
<queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ @zeth
<queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ @Zeusbeer have you ever been to places other than the moon (edited)
<queqiao-> ⟨Z​eusbeer⟩ thats why they are different 😂
<queqiao-> ⟨Z​eusbeer⟩ yes, but for flybys 2 can still be used
<queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ such as, say, the Earth
<queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ no it cannot, that makes absolutely no sense unless you want to fly over specific surface features
<queqiao-> ⟨Z​eusbeer⟩ I find that amusing, I think I did New Horizons on 2
<queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ OK, let me refine my question, have you ever been to non-tidally-locked bodies
<queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ (but even for Pluto, 4 would differ from 2, because it would be with respect to the Sun, not Charon…)
<queqiao-> ⟨Z​eusbeer⟩ not sure, I think I've been anywhere
<queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ 2 is the surface frame.
<queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ you have planned a trajectory to pluto in the reference frame that fixes the surface of pluto?
<queqiao-> ⟨Z​eusbeer⟩ No
<queqiao-> ⟨Z​eusbeer⟩ 1 is the surface frame in my mind
<queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ oh
<queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ right, they are in that order
<queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ OK this is no longer insane
<queqiao-> ⟨§​κyℓαr ♀⟩ *Meanwhile Zeusbeer plans a future interstellar flight from Earth Surface perspective*
<queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ merely not taking advantage of the more appropriate tools, but sane
<queqiao-> ⟨Z​eusbeer⟩ using 1 to get to another body would be death by noodles for my pc
<queqiao-> ⟨P​aculino (ŝi/ri/she/they)⟩ Using noodles killing a pc to cook noodles
<queqiao-> ⟨Z​eusbeer⟩ Can the new reference frame be used if you want to predict if you have communications on periapsis on a long range interplanetary mission?
<queqiao-> ⟨A​l2Me6⟩ I think that's the point of the frame...
<queqiao-> ⟨Z​eusbeer⟩ Or is it too noodle intensive
<queqiao-> ⟨Z​eusbeer⟩ In that case it's a very useful reference frame
<queqiao-> ⟨A​l2Me6⟩ @egg, are you still interested in the UI proposal by formicant? I can try to do some work on it