05:59 <queqiao-> ⟨S​ir Mortimer⟩ Someone couldn't decide for a language there?

10:04 <queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ @Al2Me6 does 目标地球轨道 reasonably parse as Target–Earth–Orbit, or 木星太阳轨道 as Jupiter–Sun–Orbit, or do I need separators

10:23 <queqiao-> ⟨(​ᴇxᴘᴇʀɪᴍᴇɴᴛᴀʟshells)⟩ it looks fine by me

10:23 <queqiao-> ⟨(​ᴇxᴘᴇʀɪᴍᴇɴᴛᴀʟshells)⟩ what would a version with separators look like?

10:23 <queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ @Al2Me6 other question:

10:23 <queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ I found the following in a paper titled 火星遥感制图技术回顾与展望

10:23 <queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ > Ｊ２０００火星星心惯性坐标系，又称Ｊ２０００ 火星星心平地球赤道坐标系，以火星质心为原点，Ｘ、Ｙ、Ｚ 三轴指向分别平行于Ｊ２０００地心惯性坐标系 Ｘ、Ｙ、Ｚ 三轴指向的右手直角坐标系。

10:23 <queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ Could 𝑋星心惯性[坐标系] be a good generic name for 𝑋-Centred Inertial (with overrides applying to many bodies obviously, for instance for Mars 火心惯性坐标系 is far more common)

10:23 <queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ I don’t know, I can’t really think of any appropriate punctuation

10:24 <queqiao-> ⟨(​ᴇxᴘᴇʀɪᴍᴇɴᴛᴀʟshells)⟩ in that case, the unseparated version is likely the better choice

10:24 <queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ In particular, does something like 木卫四星心惯性[坐标系] parse well

10:26 <queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ (or Kerbin星心惯性 for that matter)

10:30 <queqiao-> ⟨(​ᴇxᴘᴇʀɪᴍᴇɴᴛᴀʟshells)⟩ at this point my woefully inadequate Chinese is unable to help

10:31 <queqiao-> ⟨(​ᴇxᴘᴇʀɪᴍᴇɴᴛᴀʟshells)⟩ it looks fine by me, but you are probably better off asking Al2Me6

10:56 <queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ then again "星心惯性" seems to appear *only* in that paper so it may not be a great example…

10:59 <queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ ah it has quite a few more hits on CNKI…

12:21 <queqiao-> ⟨S​ir Mortimer⟩ So... junior got into orbit today. Now he wants to go to the mun.

12:23 <queqiao-> ⟨S​ir Mortimer⟩ He’s using vocabulary that his mother doesn’t know - which is pretty cool if you ask me 😄

12:25 <queqiao-> ⟨S​ir Mortimer⟩ At this pace he's going to ask for a computer that can run RSS by christmas.

12:29 <queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ Does that mean we need a German translation for Principia :D

12:33 <queqiao-> ⟨S​ir Mortimer⟩ It would feel ... odd

12:33 <queqiao-> ⟨S​ir Mortimer⟩ I'd rather have him play the english version of the game, but that's a bit too soon

12:43 <queqiao-> ⟨S​ir Mortimer⟩ Is there a french version?

13:12 <queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ nope, I should add one sometime

13:12 <queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ Looks like RSS only has a zh translation too

15:10 <queqiao-> ⟨A​l2Me6⟩ Might be a tad awkward (just sounds odd), but works for me. But then, I'm not familiar with what actual Chinese users would find reasonable...

15:10 <queqiao-> ⟨A​l2Me6⟩ I wanted to make a suggestion in the same vein at some point, but figured it probably wasn't attested: "质心惯性“

15:10 <queqiao-> ⟨A​l2Me6⟩ Nah, that's perfectly readable.

15:16 <queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ oooh from http://dlkz.ijournals.com.cn/jdc/article/html/20201209001

15:16 <queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ > 番绍炳在其文章中给出了该模型下飞行器在火卫一本体坐标系中的运动方程

15:17 <queqiao-> ⟨A​l2Me6⟩ Humph ok... is that supposed to be PCPF??

15:17 <queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ not sure

15:20 <queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ found this too, which talks about the 行星体固坐标系 http://ch.whu.edu.cn/fileWHDXXBXXKXB/journal/article/whdxxbxxkxb/2020/4/PDF/whdxxbxxkxb-45-4-604.pdf

15:30 <queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ from that same WHU paper:

15:30 <queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ > 校正形状模型到质心坐标系的计算公式为：

15:30 <queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ > […]

15:32 <queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ So you were right, 质心坐标系 it is (or 质心参考系 I guess, or I might just shorten it to 质心系)

15:34 <queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ So the navball would say, above the speed, one of

15:34 <queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ 木卫四质心

15:34 <queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ 木卫四表面

15:34 <queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ 木卫四木星轨道

15:35 <queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ So the navball would say, above the speed, one of

15:35 <queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ 木卫四质心 (en CCI)

15:35 <queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ 木卫四表面 (en CCCF)

15:35 <queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ 木卫四木星轨道 (en CJO) (edited)

15:35 <queqiao-> ⟨A​l2Me6⟩ (And the direct en translations would be center of mass / surface / Jupiter orbit)

15:35 <queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ yeah I probably want to slap an "inertial" after that centre of mass too

15:35 <queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ So the navball would say, above the speed, one of

15:35 <queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ 木卫四质心惯性 (en CCI)

15:36 <queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ 木卫四表面 (en CCCF)

15:36 <queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ 木卫四木星轨道 (en CJO) (edited)

15:37 <queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ I could alternatively go for 木卫四行星体固 if I want a closer translation

15:37 <queqiao-> ⟨A​l2Me6⟩ "行星" means "planet"

15:38 <queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ right we run into the issue of different words for different classes of bodies

15:39 <queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ 木卫四体固 for Callisto body-fixed?

15:39 <queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ or is that too abstruse

15:40 <queqiao-> ⟨A​l2Me6⟩ Possibly, yes.

15:40 <queqiao-> ⟨A​l2Me6⟩ But you'll probably want to ask QQ which one they prefer

15:43 <queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ yeah 木卫四表面 seems safest, it’s quite clear that it’s well-formed and makes some amount of sense

15:43 <queqiao-> ⟨A​l2Me6⟩ Wait, they're actually using ”行星“ to refer to Phobos here, humph...

15:43 <queqiao-> ⟨A​l2Me6⟩ > 形状模型所在坐标系为行星体固坐标系，其坐标系原点为行星历表积分中心，由于历表存在误差，因此这一坐标系统的原点既不与火卫一质心重合，也不与形状中心重合，并且坐标轴与行星主惯性轴不重合。

15:44 <queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ tired: Pluto is not a planet;

15:44 <queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ wired: Phobos is a planet

15:49 <queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ On the other hand I am seeing小行星体固坐标系 in a paper about Toutatis

15:50 <queqiao-> ⟨A​l2Me6⟩ Yeah, I believe that's the right term for asteroid

15:51 <queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ We have a Toutatis citation already https://github.com/mockingbirdnest/Principia/blob/12d2e88992eafb7836789144b60873e5e80aa202/physics/euler_solver_test.cpp#L956-L959

15:52 <queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ searching for 体固坐标系, one finds a lot of 卫星体固坐标系

15:54 <queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ hmmm,

15:54 <queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ > 在小天体的体固坐标系下，

15:54 <queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ hmmm, http://www.pmo.cas.cn/xwdt2019/jzyg2019/201909/t20190915_5384810.html

15:54 <queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ > 在小天体的体固坐标系下， (edited)

15:54 <queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ hmmm, http://www.pmo.cas.cn/xwdt2019/jzyg2019/201909/t20190915_5384810.html

15:54 <queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ > 在小天体的体固坐标系下， (edited)

15:55 <queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ So 体固坐标系 appears to be the generic technical term

15:56 <queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ maybe just meow的体固 for arbitrary bodies (with the obvious 地心地固 etc. overrides as appropriate)?

15:56 <queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ maybe just 喵的体固 for an arbitrary body 喵 (with the obvious 地心地固 etc. overrides as appropriate)? (edited)

15:57 <queqiao-> ⟨A​l2Me6⟩ IMO it parses fine without the ‘的’, especially considering that it's an abbreviation

15:57 <queqiao-> ⟨A​l2Me6⟩ IMO it parses fine without the ‘的’, especially considering that it's an abbreviated form (edited)

15:58 <queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ 喵体固 it is, then

17:48 <queqiao-> ⟨S​ir Mortimer⟩ Nothing seperates germans and austrians more than their common language.

17:49 <queqiao-> ⟨S​ir Mortimer⟩ Seeing all that chinese reminds me of a trip to taiwan eons ago. I felt like an analphabet.

17:49 <queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ Meanwhile in Switzerland :D

17:50 <queqiao-> ⟨S​ir Mortimer⟩ One can't claim that the swiss utterances are german without admitting to a host of compromises 😛

17:51 <queqiao-> ⟨S​ir Mortimer⟩ Do you speak german? How long have you been over there?

17:54 <queqiao-> ⟨S​tonesmile⟩ This sounds a lot like danish compared to swedish 🙃

17:56 <queqiao-> ⟨S​ir Mortimer⟩ Swiss german and high german are technically the same language, but with a lot... A LOT of differences. Not only in pronounciation, some words mean different things and there are differences in grammar. As well as a couple of words that simply do not exist in high german, or are not commonly used. Swiss german usually comes with subtitles on TV.

17:56 <queqiao-> ⟨S​ir Mortimer⟩ (Which feels very odd to me, because what we speak at home is quite similar)

17:56 <queqiao-> ⟨S​ir Mortimer⟩ But I pity everyone who ends up in switzerland to learn german 🙂

18:35 <queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ Yeah because the first year lectures were all in Hochdeutsch (and many of the profs were German)

20:38 <queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ (well, at least I can talk about maths, not sure about other things :-p)

20:40 <queqiao-> ⟨P​aculino (ŝi/ri/she/they)⟩ Cliff Stoll on numberphile said the same thing about Chinese

20:40 <raptop> Does that make an enormous difference vs french or english?

21:35 <queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/480397772248580098/875130437817749614/unknown.png

21:36 <raptop> nice

21:36 <queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/480397772248580098/875130602205106236/unknown.png

21:36 <queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ uh, that one should have an override eventually

21:37 <queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ on the other hand this one will stay like this

21:37 <queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/480397772248580098/875130870913183744/unknown.png

21:37 <queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ @Al2Me6 it is aligned, it’s just that some of those names are left/right/centre aligned

21:38 <queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ (surface/orbit/target, like stock)

21:38 <queqiao-> ⟨A​l2Me6⟩ Ah right, that's a thing.

21:38 <queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ it becomes a slightly silly thing when the name is looooong

21:38 <queqiao-> ⟨A​l2Me6⟩ Indeed 😆

21:39 <queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ still, it fits :-p

21:39 <queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/480397772248580098/875131264963846214/unknown.png

21:39 <queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ here it fits comfortably even

21:39 <queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/480397772248580098/875131411877744650/unknown.png

21:40 <queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ which one reads better between 木卫四质心惯性 and 木卫四心惯性, given either fits

22:04 <queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ Blargh the internet connection seems to be down

22:53 <queqiao-> ⟨A​l2Me6⟩ The former, for sure.

22:58 <queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ Certainly in the case where it is Earth (or another planet, or the moon) and we can abbreviate 地球, 地心惯性参考系 is more common than 地球质心惯性参考系

22:58 <queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ but I guess 地球心惯性 might be weird?

22:59 <queqiao-> ⟨A​l2Me6⟩ Yep.

22:59 <queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ language works in mysterious ways

23:00 <queqiao-> ⟨A​l2Me6⟩ I suppose it's because '地心' is an established term... might also work for the Moon? Gets wonky (at least to my ears) past that.

23:00 <queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ (see also: why do we most often say lunar orbit rather than selenocentric—and Moon orbit is weird—, heliocentric orbit rather than solar orbit—and Sun orbit is weird—, but Earth orbit rather than terrestrial or geocentric orbit :-p)

23:04 <raptop> telluric orbit

23:07 <queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ (and this varies between languages, French uses orbite terrestre for Earth orbit)

23:07 <queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ (and this varies between languages, French uses *orbite terrestre* for Earth orbit) (edited)

23:20 <queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ 日心惯性 is very common (not sure if that counts as beyond 月心惯性). 火心惯性 seems to be a thing too. Beyond that it is hard to say much, but it is not clear to what extent that is the dearth of publications about missions that have yet to be flown.

23:22 <queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ But in any case this does not go beyond the Sun, planets, and the Moon, because you cease to have a clear-cut way to form those abbreviations.

23:27 <queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ (it’s interesting to see that, e.g., 近火点 is more frequent than 近拱点 by an order of magnitude in the context of 天问一号, and 火轨道 slightly more than 火星轨道; so it seems that where they are available those abbreviations do get used; it would not be unreasonable to extrapolate to all the planets in that fashion)

23:29 <queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ (contrast with the græco-roman game, where periareion is rarer by an order of magnitude than periapsis in the context of ExoMars, and nobody in their right mind will say periposeidion)

23:48 <queqiao-> ⟨P​aculino (ŝi/ri/she/they)⟩ Egg, did you minor in linguistics, or are you just so devoted to Principia that you learned enough?

23:51 <_whitenotifier> [Principia] al2me6 opened issue #3089: Extreme memory usage from using RP1KCT's 'start sim from <time>' feature - https://git.io/JR1RF