egg changed the topic of #principia to: Logs: https://esper.irclog.whitequark.org/principia | <scott_manley> anyone that doubts the wisdom of retrograde bop needs to get the hell out | https://xkcd.com/323/ | <egg> calculating the influence of lamont on Pluto is a bit silly…
UmbralRaptop has joined #principia
UmbralRaptor has quit [Ping timeout: 204 seconds]
UmbralRaptor has joined #principia
UmbralRaptop has quit [Ping timeout: 204 seconds]
<_whitenotifier>
[Principia] eggrobin opened pull request #3108: A diurnal test that reads Butcher’s save - https://git.io/JET1L
<queqiao-_>
⟨NewfieStargazer⟩ Ok, I have no problem doing orbital intercepts in stock, but how is this done using Principia?
<queqiao-_>
⟨NewfieStargazer⟩ Is there a tutorial somewhere?
<queqiao-_>
⟨NewfieStargazer⟩ I don’t get any closest approach markers when I adjust my orbit so have no idea which way to ageist my maneuver node
<queqiao-_>
⟨NewfieStargazer⟩ I don’t get any closest approach markers when I adjust my orbit so have no idea which way to adjust my maneuver node (edited)
<queqiao-_>
⟨Paculino (ŝi/ri/she/they)⟩ Is your tracking station upgraded?
<queqiao-_>
⟨egg⟩ @Butcher from a cursory inspection of the orbital elements it looks like you have indeed come across the Лидов–古在 mechanism!
<queqiao-_>
⟨Butcher⟩ A winner is me?
<queqiao-_>
⟨egg⟩ yes, I believe you are the first one to observe this with Principia, *including us in tests*
<raptop>
kozai?
<raptop>
kozai!
<queqiao-_>
⟨egg⟩ the spacecraft as given, starting in Mercury orbit in late August/early September 1966, sees its eccentricity go down and its inclination go up, and then the reverse, until 1972 when it slams into Mercury
<queqiao-_>
⟨Sir Mortimer⟩ This sounds fancy, I’ll google that
<raptop>
IIRC, one of the founding papers is open acces, the other is paywalled
<queqiao-_>
⟨lamont⟩ the whozitwhatzit mechanism?
<queqiao-_>
⟨egg⟩ lidov-kozai are the usual transliterations respectively
<queqiao-_>
⟨egg⟩ perturbations exchanging eccentricity and inclination
<queqiao-_>
⟨lamont⟩ DDG translate gives me leads-ancient
<queqiao-_>
⟨egg⟩ graphs of the elements of @Butcher’s Mercury orbiter forthcoming
<queqiao-_>
⟨lamont⟩ is this related to the recent paper on statistical solutions of the three body problem dealing with ejection of the third body?
<queqiao-_>
⟨egg⟩ haven’t heard of that, but hardly anything recent about this
<queqiao-_>
⟨lamont⟩ (ping'd my radar like a week or three ago)
<queqiao-_>
⟨egg⟩ it’s just a classic result of three-body mechanics that we had yet to observe with Principia ; Butcher came across it
<queqiao-_>
⟨lamont⟩ "The citations of the initial papers by Kozai and Lidov have risen sharply in the 21st century. As of 2017, the mechanism is among the most studied astrophysical phenomena" (wikipedia)
<queqiao-_>
⟨egg⟩ issue #1119 (to look for it with Principia) is from 2016, so clearly it is responsible for this sharp rise :-p
<queqiao-_>
⟨Butcher⟩ And all because I didn't have enough fuel for a less eccentric orbit
<queqiao-_>
⟨egg⟩ Emergent gameplay!
<_whitenotifier>
[Principia] eggrobin commented on issue #1119: Лидов–古在 mechanism test - https://git.io/JEqnF
<_whitenotifier>
[Principia] eggrobin labeled pull request #3112: Add a function to reanimate one checkpoint - https://git.io/JEtg1
egg|anbo|egg_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
egg|anbo|egg has joined #principia
<queqiao-_>
⟨egg⟩ raptop: note that the article by Lidov in question is a translation of the original
<UmbralRaptor>
well, yes
<queqiao-_>
⟨NewfieStargazer⟩ Ok, trying Principia in RP-1 now; how do I launch into the plain of the moon? Without Principia, I select the moon as my target, press the “Launch into plain of target” on the Mechjeb Ascent Guidance Tab (at the bottom), and then Engage the Autopilot.
<queqiao-_>
⟨*ਜੰਗਲੀ ਆਦਮੀ*⟩ yea
<queqiao-_>
⟨*ਜੰਗਲੀ ਆਦਮੀ*⟩ same with principia
<queqiao-_>
⟨NewfieStargazer⟩ I try this with Principia, but it does not seem to work correctly; I launch but it down not seem to be into the same plain as the moon
<queqiao-_>
⟨*ਜੰਗਲੀ ਆਦਮੀ*⟩ but it wont exactly do it
<queqiao-_>
⟨*ਜੰਗਲੀ ਆਦਮੀ*⟩ depends on the launch site
<queqiao-_>
⟨NewfieStargazer⟩ The Cape
<queqiao-_>
⟨*ਜੰਗਲੀ ਆਦਮੀ*⟩ yea wont exaclty happen from the cape
<queqiao-_>
⟨*ਜੰਗਲੀ ਆਦਮੀ*⟩ i think u can launch to the plane of the moon once every 18 years from the cape
<queqiao-_>
⟨NewfieStargazer⟩ Oh, well I ain’t waiting that long lol
<queqiao-_>
⟨*ਜੰਗਲੀ ਆਦਮੀ*⟩ but kourou
<queqiao-_>
⟨NewfieStargazer⟩ So just do the same a without Principia?
<queqiao-_>
⟨*ਜੰਗਲੀ ਆਦਮੀ*⟩ yea
<queqiao-_>
⟨NewfieStargazer⟩ Ok
<queqiao-_>
⟨*ਜੰਗਲੀ ਆਦਮੀ*⟩ you would need to switch refrence frame then
<queqiao-_>
⟨egg⟩ Don’t launch from the cape, or use Butcher’s script
<queqiao-_>
⟨*ਜੰਗਲੀ ਆਦਮੀ*⟩ whats the script
<queqiao-_>
⟨egg⟩ Butcher wrote a kOS script that launches to the moon from high latitudes
<queqiao-_>
⟨egg⟩ (but also, stop using the cape to learn Principia, it’s a terrible place, move south, there is a reason I advise against the cape)
<queqiao-_>
⟨NewfieStargazer⟩ So just do the same as without Principia? (edited)
<queqiao-_>
⟨NewfieStargazer⟩ Oh, never knew that
<queqiao-_>
⟨NewfieStargazer⟩ 😢
<queqiao-_>
⟨egg⟩ sure, once you are a seasoned Principia and RP-1 player, higher-latitude sites can be an interesting challenge, but don’t start there
<queqiao-_>
⟨egg⟩ (doesn’t have to be kourou, there is a good launch site in India too)
<queqiao-_>
⟨NewfieStargazer⟩ Is there away to change mid game without loosing stuff?
<queqiao-_>
⟨NewfieStargazer⟩ Launch sites that is
<queqiao-_>
⟨egg⟩ I don’t know, I have never played carerer
<queqiao-_>
⟨egg⟩ I don’t know, I have never played caerer (edited)
<queqiao-_>
⟨egg⟩ I don’t know, I have never played career (edited)
<queqiao-_>
⟨Paculino (ŝi/ri/she/they)⟩ You can switch back and it keeps I think
<queqiao-_>
⟨Paculino (ŝi/ri/she/they)⟩ But it is expensive to get a mew launch site
<queqiao-_>
⟨Stonesmile⟩ Esrange on my current career is interesting, especially when I tried to hit the moon with solids
<queqiao-_>
⟨Paculino (ŝi/ri/she/they)⟩ You could edit the save file, but that is difficult and easily screwed up
<queqiao-_>
⟨NewfieStargazer⟩ I’ll try as it is; always up for a challenge 🤷♂️
<queqiao-_>
⟨NewfieStargazer⟩ Worse case scenario, I’ll just remove Principia from this game as I only have a couple of days in orbit this far
<queqiao-_>
⟨NewfieStargazer⟩ Worse case scenario, I’ll just remove Principia from this game as I only have a couple of satellites in orbit this far (edited)
<queqiao-_>
⟨NewfieStargazer⟩ I’ve been using it in Stock KSP to learn the ropes and starting to get the hang of it
<queqiao-_>
⟨egg⟩ The original paper by Лидов refers to the name of american satellites in translation or in transliteration, «Авангард I» and «Эксплорер VI»
<queqiao-_>
⟨egg⟩ also it uses ☊ for the longitude of the ascending node where the translation uses the more common Ω
<queqiao-_>
⟨egg⟩ raptop: it looks like Lidov’s paper also describe some three-way eccentricity-inclination-argument of periapsis dance in addition to the eccentricity-inclination exchange
<queqiao-_>
⟨egg⟩ (equation (59))
<queqiao-_>
⟨egg⟩ raptop: it looks like Лидов’s paper also describe some three-way eccentricity-inclination-argument of periapsis dance in addition to the eccentricity-inclination exchange (edited)
<queqiao-_>
⟨Paculino (ŝi/ri/she/they)⟩ Is there any specific trait of Mercury that would possibly make the effect more likely or prominent around it? It is denser, so is is slightly closer to a point mass than the planets, but I don't think that would do much.
<queqiao-_>
⟨Paculino (ŝi/ri/she/they)⟩ Is there any specific trait of Mercury that would possibly make the effect more likely or prominent around it? It is denser, so is is slightly closer to a point mass than the other planets, but I don't think that would do much. (edited)
<queqiao-_>
⟨egg⟩ The reason this all happened is Butcher ran out of fuel, that’s not a profound property of Mercury
<queqiao-_>
⟨Paculino (ŝi/ri/she/they)⟩ I thought maybe there was a connection since you said you couldn't find it in tests.
<queqiao-_>
⟨egg⟩ I didn’t, but that’s mostly for a lack of trying
<queqiao-_>
⟨egg⟩ it’s reasonably close to the Sun which probably means the timescales are shorter than for orbits around other planets (but the classic is Earth orbits perturbed by the Moon)