00:22 <raptop> so, uh, is this relevant to anyone's orbital rendezvous attempts? https://arxiv.org/abs/2108.04759

01:05 <queqiao-> ⟨r​ocketman⟩ is the idea that offering principia in multiple languages broadens its appeal?

01:13 <queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ The idea is that some of our Chinese users wanted that, and did quite a bit of work to make it happen

01:13 <queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ and then that I insist on getting technical terms correct, because teaching things that are wrong is bad

01:17 <queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ People seemed to like it too, from QQ around the time it came out:

01:17 <queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ > 我觉得中文版多体挺容易明白的

01:17 <queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩

01:18 <queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ > 对啊，当时我玩老版principia时光是理解每个选项的作用就花了好久，然后又花了很长时间熟练轨道规划。现在确实好上手了。

01:25 <queqiao-> ⟨r​ocketman⟩ yeah, I am not proficient enough to read this haha

01:25 <queqiao-> ⟨r​ocketman⟩ maybe the first sentence

01:26 <queqiao-> ⟨r​ocketman⟩ "I think a chinese language version would be easier to understand" (?)

01:26 <queqiao-> ⟨A​l2Me6⟩ Close, it's affirmative.

01:29 <queqiao-> ⟨A​l2Me6⟩ > I feel like the Chinese version of Principia is pretty easy to understand

01:29 <queqiao-> ⟨A​l2Me6⟩ >

01:29 <queqiao-> ⟨A​l2Me6⟩ > Yeah, when I used the old version of Principia it took me a long time just to understand what each option did, and then I spent more time to get proficient at flight planning. Now it's quite easy to get started.

01:37 <queqiao-> ⟨r​ocketman⟩ it's a lot of unknown vocab

01:37 <queqiao-> ⟨r​ocketman⟩ 老版principia "old version of prinicpia" (lao3 ban3)?

01:37 <queqiao-> ⟨r​ocketman⟩ so 玩 in 当时我玩 is like saying when I used (played)

01:37 <queqiao-> ⟨r​ocketman⟩

01:37 <queqiao-> ⟨r​ocketman⟩ 时光是理解每个选项的作用 the period of time to understand every option 就花了好久 was very long

01:37 <queqiao-> ⟨r​ocketman⟩

01:37 <queqiao-> ⟨r​ocketman⟩ of course this is very literal and probably mostly wrong on my part

01:38 <queqiao-> ⟨r​ocketman⟩ it's a lot of unknown vocab

01:38 <queqiao-> ⟨r​ocketman⟩ 老版principia "old version of prinicpia" (lao3 ban3)?

01:38 <queqiao-> ⟨r​ocketman⟩ so 玩 in 当时我玩 is like saying when I "used" (played) like in 玩儿 or 玩电子游戏

01:38 <queqiao-> ⟨r​ocketman⟩

01:38 <queqiao-> ⟨r​ocketman⟩ 时光是理解每个选项的作用 the period of time to understand every option 就花了好久 was very long

01:38 <queqiao-> ⟨r​ocketman⟩

01:38 <queqiao-> ⟨r​ocketman⟩ of course this is very literal and probably mostly wrong on my part (edited)

01:39 <queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ It always amuses me how some people refer to it as 多体 and some as Principia

01:39 <queqiao-> ⟨A​l2Me6⟩ And none as the Chinese name of _Principia_ the book 😆

01:39 <queqiao-> ⟨r​ocketman⟩ I mean

01:39 <queqiao-> ⟨r​ocketman⟩ 三体 is well known

01:39 <queqiao-> ⟨r​ocketman⟩ maybe that's where it comes from

01:40 <queqiao-> ⟨r​ocketman⟩ what is the Chinese name of principia? something long I bet

01:40 <queqiao-> ⟨r​ocketman⟩ what is the Chinese name of principia? something very long I bet (edited)

01:40 <queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ ah yes, clearly the mod should be called 原理 🙃

01:41 <queqiao-> ⟨r​ocketman⟩ now it sounds like a star trek episode

01:41 <queqiao-> ⟨A​l2Me6⟩ First two are right, for the third one it's read as "时 光是“ -- as in, the "时“ goes with the part before "Principia" and "光是“ means "just"

01:41 <queqiao-> ⟨A​l2Me6⟩ "花了“ is "spent"

01:41 <queqiao-> ⟨r​ocketman⟩ now it sounds like a star trek episode "the carbonite principle" or whatever (edited)

01:42 <queqiao-> ⟨r​ocketman⟩ ohh I see

01:42 <queqiao-> ⟨r​ocketman⟩ so 花了好久 spent a long time

01:43 <queqiao-> ⟨r​ocketman⟩ is 时 kind of like the shortened version of 的时候？

01:54 <queqiao-> ⟨r​ocketman⟩ 然后又花了很长时间熟练轨道规划 and then然后 (again又) spent more time 花了 很长 时间 to be proficient in 熟练 trajectory planning 轨道规划? 对不对？ （要是你太忙了，请你就告诉我)

01:54 <queqiao-> ⟨A​l2Me6⟩ The more notable concern is that we're getting rather #offtopic ...

01:55 <queqiao-> ⟨r​ocketman⟩ yes indeed haha all right

01:55 <queqiao-> ⟨r​ocketman⟩ thanks for the help

08:59 <queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ OK so the zh UI will look like this

08:59 <queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/480397772248580098/875302372144984084/unknown.png

08:59 <queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ (except that at some point I’ll need someone to translate the remaining bits of English but once the technical terms are pinned down this is easier)

09:02 <queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ (and the English equivalent, though note that when I add the override mechanism SCI will become HCI and ESO will become GSE)

09:02 <queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/480397772248580098/875303178227318825/unknown.png

09:08 <queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ O_o why are the planets called Kerbin^N in stock in Chinese

09:12 <queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ ah right they have placeholders with declension

09:13 <queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ (but not in English, which is inflected, and yet they have that in Chinese, which is not, because facepalm)

09:29 <queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ omg the only thing this lingoona thing does is grammatical gender, not declension?

09:34 <queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ ah no they apparently do have patterns like <<nom:1>>

09:34 <queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ their documentation must be astounding, given that "lingoona" "declension" returns no results

09:50 <queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ I might need to do something about this

09:50 <queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/480397772248580098/875315267738173490/unknown.png

09:59 <UmbralRaptop> uh

12:47 <_whitenotifier> [Principia] eggrobin labeled pull request #3088: Merge - https://git.io/JRKeb

12:51 <_whitenotifier> [Principia] pleroy closed pull request #3088: Merge - https://git.io/JRKeb

12:51 <_whitenotifier> [Principia] pleroy pushed 52 commits to Entwurf [+9/-4/±209] https://git.io/JRyKJ

12:51 <_whitenotifier> [Principia] pleroy ea3c212 - Merge.

12:51 <_whitenotifier> [Principia] pleroy 2f6f6bd - Merge pull request #3088 from pleroy/Merge Merge

12:59 <_whitenotifier> [Principia] pleroy opened pull request #3090: Write a discrete trajectory checkpoint when closing a non-collapsible segment - https://git.io/JRyiC

13:00 <queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ @Al2Me6 obviously the long form of that should be something like Minmus-Kerbin-轨道, but given that this doesn’t fit (contrary to, e.g., Kerbin质心惯性 or Kerbin体固), what should I have there? M.-K.-轨道? MK轨道?

13:01 <_whitenotifier> [Principia] Pending. Build queued… - 

13:01 <_whitenotifier> [Principia] Pending. Building… - http://casanova.westeurope.cloudapp.azure.com:8080/job/Principia/5077/

13:02 <queqiao-> ⟨A​l2Me6⟩ IMO that’s down to stylistic choice… M-K轨道 is what I’d do

13:03 <queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ Note that semantically it is really Minmus-Kerbin-Orbit, not Minmus-(Kerbin orbit), so I think a second hyphen makes sense if there is a first one

13:05 <queqiao-> ⟨A​l2Me6⟩ Hm ok I can see that… but I parsed it as (Minmus-Kerbin) 轨道

13:05 <queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ OK, single hyphen it is then

13:22 <_whitenotifier> [Principia] Failure. Build finished. - http://casanova.westeurope.cloudapp.azure.com:8080/job/Principia/5077/

13:34 <_whitenotifier> [Principia] eggrobin labeled pull request #3090: Write a discrete trajectory checkpoint when closing a non-collapsible segment - https://git.io/JRyiC

13:39 <queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ looks like Lingoona supports markup for articles, but KSP does not use that in its strings; the Sun should be Sun^d, the M(u|oo)n should be Moon^d

14:33 <queqiao-> ⟨A​l2Me6⟩ I thought about it some more... M-K轨道 does run a small risk of being misinterpreted, so MK轨道 is probably better. M-K-轨道 is just weird to me though.

14:40 <_whitenotifier> [Principia] pleroy opened pull request #3091: Fix a compatibility bug - https://git.io/JRSJ5

14:41 <_whitenotifier> [Principia] Pending. Build queued… - 

14:41 <_whitenotifier> [Principia] Pending. Building… - http://casanova.westeurope.cloudapp.azure.com:8080/job/Principia/5078/

14:41 <queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ What about the full form? Minmus-Kerbin-轨道 or Minmus-Kerbin轨道?

14:42 <queqiao-> ⟨A​l2Me6⟩ What do you want the en form to be?

14:52 <queqiao-> ⟨A​l2Me6⟩ If you prefer it fully hyphenated in English then the same should probably apply to zn

14:52 <queqiao-> ⟨A​l2Me6⟩ If you prefer it fully hyphenated in English then the same should probably apply to zh (edited)

14:55 <queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ yeah in English it is Jupiter-Sun-Orbit

15:00 <_whitenotifier> [Principia] Failure. Build finished. - http://casanova.westeurope.cloudapp.azure.com:8080/job/Principia/5078/

15:41 <_whitenotifier> [Principia] pleroy synchronize pull request #3091: Fix a compatibility bug - https://git.io/JRSJ5

15:43 <_whitenotifier> [Principia] Pending. Build queued… - 

15:43 <_whitenotifier> [Principia] Pending. Building… - http://casanova.westeurope.cloudapp.azure.com:8080/job/Principia/5079/

16:00 <queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ on the other hand the Sun is 太阳 in stock, so forcibly hyphenating we would end up with Kerbin-太阳-轨道 which seems abhorrent; maybe I should just hyphenate between the two bodies if they are both in Latin script

16:01 <queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ thus Kerbin太阳轨道, Minmus-Kerbin轨道, 木星太阳轨道

16:03 <_whitenotifier> [Principia] Failure. Build finished. - http://casanova.westeurope.cloudapp.azure.com:8080/job/Principia/5079/

16:27 <_whitenotifier> [Principia] eggrobin labeled pull request #3091: Fix a compatibility bug - https://git.io/JRSJ5

17:43 <queqiao-> ⟨P​lasticGuy⟩ does principia severely effect performance when timewarping still?

17:51 <queqiao-> ⟨D​amien⟩ it can, but it scales with number of crafts, trajectory calculation settings etc

18:09 <queqiao-> ⟨P​lasticGuy⟩ so basically is playing rp-1 with principia viable without a supercomputer?

18:10 <queqiao-> ⟨A​l2Me6⟩ There’s plenty of us playing Principia with RP-1…

18:10 <queqiao-> ⟨A​l2Me6⟩ Last two timewarp levels chug a bit, yes, but if you’re playing RP-1 you rarely need to do super long warps

18:12 <queqiao-> ⟨P​lasticGuy⟩ oh ok nice, ill make sure to add it to my install thanks

18:16 <queqiao-> ⟨§​κyℓαr ♀⟩ I had an awful dream where principia was getting the opposite of the love its getting, I think the practical nightmare was associated with my dissapointment about some good abandoned rendering engines right before I fell asleep lol , In the dream I don't think KSP itself was a mess nor that KSP itself was proprietary which made it even worse than such a disaster would be lol

18:16 <queqiao-> ⟨§​κyℓαr ♀⟩ I had an awful dream where principia was spontaneously getting the opposite of the love its getting, I think the practical nightmare was associated with my dissapointment about some good abandoned rendering engines right before I fell asleep lol , In the dream I don't think KSP itself was a mess nor that KSP itself was proprietary which made it even worse than such a disaster would be lol

22:12 <_whitenotifier> [Principia] eggrobin labeled pull request #3092: Translate technical terms in the new frame selector UI - https://git.io/JR9iN

22:12 <_whitenotifier> [Principia] eggrobin opened pull request #3092: Translate technical terms in the new frame selector UI - https://git.io/JR9iN

22:13 <_whitenotifier> [Principia] Pending. Build queued… - 

22:13 <_whitenotifier> [Principia] Pending. Building… - http://casanova.westeurope.cloudapp.azure.com:8080/job/Principia/5080/

22:17 <queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ @Al2Me6 since you are doing some test drives of the new UI, would you mind using KSP in Chinese for a bit once https://github.com/mockingbirdnest/Principia/pull/3092 gets merged, to see if something looks off there? (well, aside from the fact that the frame descriptions still need to be translated I guess)

22:17 <queqiao-> ⟨A​l2Me6⟩ How do you even get a localized KSP anyways 😅

22:18 <queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ you need to download the language patch executable and tell it to mangle your install

22:18 <raptop> Make sure to never use the Schrödinger mod

22:18 <queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ (I recommend making a copy of your save)

22:18 <raptop> (more seriously, what egg typed)

22:19 <queqiao-> ⟨A​l2Me6⟩ Oh dear... I can try, but maybe I'll be better off testing on a new install rather than my Frankenstein career mess

22:19 <queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ well, it might be entertaining

22:19 <queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ I patched a copy of my working RSS/RO install, it worked well

22:19 <queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ (the KC one)

22:19 <raptop> Something something store version makes this easier

22:20 <queqiao-> ⟨A​l2Me6⟩ Wait, this? http://www.ksppatch.sitew.org/

22:21 <queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ uh no, from the real KSP website

22:21 <queqiao-> ⟨A​l2Me6⟩ ...using ddg on obscure topics can lead to weird results 😂

22:22 <queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ https://www.kerbalspaceprogram.com/downloadLangPatches.php?od=10173

22:23 <queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ wait what is this od URL parameter O_o

22:23 <queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ … it gives me a thing that’s signed in in an incognito tab

22:27 <queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ anyway, moving swiftly on from the antics of KSP-grade authentication, on that site, go to account, log in, click on download for Kerbal Space Program, scroll to more downloads, click on language patches

22:32 <_whitenotifier> [Principia] Success. Build finished. - http://casanova.westeurope.cloudapp.azure.com:8080/job/Principia/5080/