egg changed the topic of #principia to: Logs: https://esper.irclog.whitequark.org/principia | <scott_manley> anyone that doubts the wisdom of retrograde bop needs to get the hell out | https://xkcd.com/323/ | <egg> calculating the influence of lamont on Pluto is a bit silly…
<queqiao-_> ⟨e​gg⟩ cats, being cats, do not care whether they are on topic or not.
<queqiao-_> ⟨P​aculino (ŝi/ri/she/they)⟩ That basically sums them up. If they knew they were on topic, then they would hide.
<UmbralRaptor> But is the cat's motion perturbed by 3-body interactions?
<queqiao-_> ⟨D​RVeyl⟩ Clearly. The cat's motion is nearly always different between when 2 people are trying to pet it, versus just one.
<queqiao-_> ⟨e​gg⟩ huh the collision is detected at 1971-12-31T23:59:55,2571494579315186 (TT)
<queqiao-_> ⟨e​gg⟩ raptop: the three elements involved in Лидов’s integrals (58) and (59)
<queqiao-_> ⟨e​gg⟩ (58), the eccentricity-inclination exchange, the 古在 one
<queqiao-_> ⟨e​gg⟩ (59)
<queqiao-_> ⟨e​gg⟩ c₂ is a bit disappointing as a constant on that graph, but if I am reading the paper correctly it should be conserved
<queqiao-_> ⟨e​gg⟩ I suppose the inhomogeneity of Mercury will somewhat perturb ω (whereas it should essentially not touch e and i), throwing off c₂ and not c₁
<queqiao-_> ⟨S​paceman Spiff⟩ On topic cat
<queqiao-_> ⟨N​ewfieStargazer⟩ First lunar fly-by and impactor (same vehicle) from the Cape with Principia completed 😃😃
<queqiao-_> ⟨e​gg⟩ nope, the inhomogeneity of Mercury is not to blame here. No idea what is going on.
<queqiao-_> ⟨M​udkip909⟩ xnoypt
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<_whitenotifier> [Principia] eggrobin opened pull request #3113: Лидов–古在 - https://git.io/JEmUG
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* queqiao- ⟨l​amont⟩ makes mercury homogenous by rearranging it and setting it equal to zero
<raptop> Well, 16 Psyche might be a smol homogenous Mercury
<raptop> ...wait. I missed that lamont was making a diff eq joke
<_whitenotifier> [Principia] eggrobin synchronize pull request #3113: Лидов–古在 - https://git.io/JEmUG
<_whitenotifier> [Principia] eggrobin synchronize pull request #3113: Лидов–古在 - https://git.io/JEmUG
<queqiao-> ⟨K​itty OwO⟩ uωu
* raptop pets the kitty
<queqiao-> ⟨K​itty OwO⟩ >^^<
<queqiao-> ⟨K​itty OwO⟩ \>^^<
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<_whitenotifier> [Principia] pleroy closed pull request #3112: Add a function to reanimate one checkpoint - https://git.io/JEtg1
<_whitenotifier> [Principia] pleroy pushed 4 commits to Entwurf [+0/-0/±14] https://git.io/JEmbd
<_whitenotifier> [Principia] pleroy fe847f4 - Reorder.
<_whitenotifier> [Principia] pleroy d740d87 - ReanimateOneCheckpoint.
<_whitenotifier> [Principia] pleroy 2e162be - Fix compilation errors.
<_whitenotifier> [Principia] pleroy be5beb5 - Merge pull request #3112 from pleroy/ReanimateOne Add a function to reanimate one checkpoint
<queqiao-> ⟨B​utcher⟩ The specific trait in this case appears to be it's hard to get to, this I was flying very tight margins.
<queqiao-> ⟨B​utcher⟩ My craft injected into something like a 150 x 18000 km orbit because I only just had fuel to capture at all.
<queqiao-> ⟨B​utcher⟩ The specific trait in this case appears to be it's hard to get to, thus I was flying very tight margins.
<queqiao-> ⟨B​utcher⟩ My craft injected into something like a 150 x 18000 km orbit because I only just had fuel to capture at all. (edited)
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<queqiao-> ⟨S​erina⟩ which is cheaper to capture, entering from retrograde or prograde?
<queqiao-> ⟨S​erina⟩ moon specifically
<queqiao-> ⟨B​utcher⟩ For capture, whichever gives a lower flyby speed.
<raptop> Assuming you're not doing ballistic capture shenanigans, surface-skimming periapsis
<queqiao-> ⟨S​erina⟩ humm...
<raptop> capturing into a 0-altitude x near-hill radius ellipse is the correct answer >_>
<queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ ah, here is the explanation: c₂ was not constant because I was computing it incorrectly <https://github.com/mockingbirdnest/Principia/pull/3113/files#diff-0569dc9bb290c20b09577a0b2a0f0922dbd41969090112234df21b28e299c5fdR119>
<queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ Once it is computed correctly, it is quite constant indeed.
<queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ @Butcher so the long-term evolution of your orbit may be entirely ascribed to perturbation by the Sun, and follows the behaviour described in Лидов’s paper remarkably well.
<raptop> That is indeed quite constant
<queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ These would probably be even more constant if I took a moving average over the orbit of Mercury; I think it is an integral of motion only in that average.
<queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ 88 days might indeed be the period of the wiggles we see on that red line
<_whitenotifier> [Principia] eggrobin synchronize pull request #3113: Лидов–古在 - https://git.io/JEmUG
<_whitenotifier> [Principia] eggrobin edited pull request #3113: Лидов–古在 - https://git.io/JEmUG
<queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ For want of Δv the result was replicated…
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<queqiao-> ⟨P​aculino (ŝi/ri/she/they)⟩ Are the little bumps just from minor pertubations?
<queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ I suspect the bulk of the visible bumps should be from the orbit of the Sun around Mercury
<queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ (the study in Лидов is for averages over the orbit of the perturber; there are obviously also variations over the course of the orbit of the orbiter, but those have been eliminated already: we are looking at mean elements)
<_whitenotifier> [Principia] Pending. Build queued… - 
<_whitenotifier> [Principia] Pending. Building… - http://casanova.westeurope.cloudapp.azure.com:8080/job/Principia/5124/
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<_whitenotifier> [Principia] Success. Build finished. - http://casanova.westeurope.cloudapp.azure.com:8080/job/Principia/5124/
<queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ (note how those bumps have periodic features with a period in the right ballpark for Mercury’s orbital period)
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<queqiao-> ⟨M​udkip909⟩ how would you get to a lagrangian point
<queqiao-> ⟨M​udkip909⟩ and be stable
<queqiao-> ⟨p​Edro⟩ Only L4 and L5 are stable, L1 to L3 needs some corrective maneuvers every few months
<queqiao-> ⟨M​udkip909⟩ ah
<queqiao-> ⟨M​udkip909⟩ but how do i get to it
<queqiao-> ⟨p​Edro⟩ As for getting there, use the barycentre view and go 60° in front or behind on the orbit of the minor body
<queqiao-> ⟨p​Edro⟩ You can use the principia windows to get some 90° angles for convenience
<queqiao-> ⟨p​Edro⟩ You can use the principia gui windows to get some 90° angles for convenience (edited)
<queqiao-> ⟨M​udkip909⟩ what will the orbit look like in principia
<queqiao-> ⟨M​udkip909⟩ the final one
<queqiao-> ⟨S​tonesmile⟩ L4/5 look like the trojan asteroids
<queqiao-> ⟨p​Edro⟩ very noodly, even more so if you have some relative inclination.
<queqiao-> ⟨p​Edro⟩ This is from stock KSP, but everything relevant stays the same.
<queqiao-> ⟨M​udkip909⟩ ight
<queqiao-> ⟨M​udkip909⟩ also whatsthe speed at that like
<queqiao-> ⟨M​udkip909⟩ also whats the speed at that like (edited)
<queqiao-> ⟨p​Edro⟩ the same-ish as lunas speed around the earth
<queqiao-> ⟨M​udkip909⟩ i feel like this has something to do with it
<queqiao-> ⟨A​l2Me6⟩ That's, uh, way too far out. You might be getting close to one of the Earth-_Sun_ Lagrange points (L1 or L2)?
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<queqiao-> ⟨M​udkip909⟩ i put my planned apoapsis at 1.5 million km
<queqiao-> ⟨p​Edro⟩ Thats too far
<queqiao-> ⟨(​ᴇxᴘᴇʀɪᴍᴇɴᴛᴀʟshells)⟩ yep, you're getting close to Earth-Sun L1 L2
<queqiao-> ⟨(​ᴇxᴘᴇʀɪᴍᴇɴᴛᴀʟshells)⟩ the Moon is at 0.4 million km fyi
<queqiao-> ⟨A​l2Me6⟩ Location of the Earth-Moon Lagrange points, for reference:
<queqiao-> ⟨M​udkip909⟩ oh i mistook l2 for l1
<queqiao-> ⟨p​Edro⟩ L1, L4 and L5 are generally the most usefull ones
<queqiao-> ⟨S​tonesmile⟩ L2 is useful for far-side relays
<queqiao-> ⟨A​l2Me6⟩ ~~where's my Lissajous curve emoji~~
<queqiao-> ⟨M​udkip909⟩ l2 as well i think
<queqiao-> ⟨M​udkip909⟩ for telescopes
<queqiao-> ⟨M​udkip909⟩ wtf
<queqiao-> ⟨M​udkip909⟩ how
<queqiao-> ⟨S​tonesmile⟩ Lots of correction burns, once every 30 days roughly
<queqiao-> ⟨A​l2Me6⟩ You have the patience of a saint for going through that.
<queqiao-> ⟨S​tonesmile⟩ Well, it caused my mars lander to take about the same IRL time for transfer as Percy, launched at about the same time 😅
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<queqiao-> ⟨p​Edro⟩ Id rather just wait for a comsat to rise over the horizon
<queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ did you do the landing synchronously with the real one too :-p
<queqiao-> ⟨S​tonesmile⟩ No, it was a few days after, having the L2 relay really burned be out of doing anything other than designing rockets in that save
<queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ (also one should note the IRC bridge’s namesake here)
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