raptop changed the topic of #KSPOfficial to: Kerbal Space Program official channel | versions: KSP1 1.11.2 | Rules: tinyurl.com/KSP-Rules | "modcall" to call ops | Δv maps: https://i.imgur.com/CHVnEeE.pnghttps://i.imgur.com/gBoLsSt.png | < Solar_Oracle> What can you do on Venus? Unless you put up a Tibanna gas refinery and casino, absolutely nothing.
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<raptop>
!mission
<LunchBot>
raptop: You are listening to The Shaggs all day. conspiracy theorists find proof that your mun landing was fake an actually took place on on moho.
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<XXCoder>
raptop: uhpoh found faked landing of yours tsk tsk
<XXCoder>
!mission
<LunchBot>
XXCoder: You attempt to turn off your SRBs. Wernher von Kerman ejects you from R&D on the nose of an SRB.
<Althego>
(local) leet time
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<darsie>
.
<minas_tirith>
darsie, do new launches these days have to coordinate with the orbits of existing satellites?
<minas_tirith>
There are many satellites up there
<darsie>
Of course. Satellite constellations are carefully planned. You can't just put them on random orbits. Also satellites must not collide with each other and their trajectories are constantly monitored and evasive maneuvers are executed to avoid collisions.
<minas_tirith>
So do all countries maintain charts of their satellites orbits?
<darsie>
The orbit of the ISS is especially kept clear of other satellites.
<minas_tirith>
Which are shared with everyone else for launches
<darsie>
I'm not sure if they interoperate completely, but yes. Spy satellite orbits may not be shared with enemies.
<minas_tirith>
Obivously
<minas_tirith>
Secret satellites are a problem
<darsie>
There's ##space in libera.
<Althego>
these days? that was the norm for decades
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<FLHerne>
l33t time
<darsie>
.
<FLHerne>
minas_tirith: The Atlas launch recently was delayed a few minutes to avoid a conjunction with other things
<darsie>
Why not set the nomital launch time right in the first place?
<minas_tirith>
is that a real thing or is it just ai marketing nonsense
<Mat2ch>
Probably a real thing, but not AI
<Mat2ch>
Predicting an collision is easy, can be done automatically.
<Mat2ch>
If the probability gets over a certain threshold you do a manouver
<FLHerne>
"attachment B" is the interesting bit
<minas_tirith>
Mat2ch, like how is that possible without having possibly realtime data regarding other satellites orbits?
<FLHerne>
"the maneuver threshold for Starlink satellites is 1e-5 and that maneuvers occur approximately 12 hours before the predicted closest approachof the satellites"
<FLHerne>
"if a maneuver was needed, typically a single in-track burn would be conducted to reduce collision probability"
<Mat2ch>
minas_tirith: the other satellites don't do erratic stuff. The tend to stay on their path
<FLHerne>
sounds fairly simple, if it thinks there's a possible conjunction it'll burn prograde or retrograde slightly to make there not be one
<minas_tirith>
"18SPCS reported actual miss distance as 1,120 m." wtf how is that not a close call
<Mat2ch>
so you can calculate in advance where they will be and where you will be at a certain time
<Mat2ch>
usually at the crossing line of the two orbits
<FLHerne>
Two objects a metre across passing a kilometer apart?
<FLHerne>
In space, where all trajectories are predictable near-perfectly
<minas_tirith>
FLHerne, 1 km sounds very close for orbits but idk
<Mat2ch>
it does, but it isn't really
<FLHerne>
I mean, if that's a close call I'm probably experiencing a thousand close calls from being hit by lorries right now
<minas_tirith>
Like 1km is very tiny compared to the total area and volume of orbits
<Mat2ch>
but it is huge compared to the size of the satellites
<FLHerne>
"Both 18 SPCSand LeoLabs reported final Pc below 1e-20—one in one hundred million million million"
<minas_tirith>
Its true but what I was thinking is that
<minas_tirith>
Are orbits really that accurate that 1km might not accidentally result from some random errors?
<FLHerne>
Yes
<FLHerne>
1km is a lot
<minas_tirith>
FLHerne, whats the threshold for a true close call?
<Mat2ch>
minas_tirith: that's why the have keep-out zones around the satellites to minimize exactly this.
<minas_tirith>
Mat2ch, whats the "geometry" of these keep out zones? Is it close to like each satellite having a particular altitude band to themselves or some more complicated shape?
<Mat2ch>
I guess you could make a bubble around it, but to make the calculation easier you can use a box
<FLHerne>
minas_tirith: Looks like SpaceX are using 1-in-10000 probability of collision as their threshold for things to avoid
<minas_tirith>
FLHerne, oh okay
<minas_tirith>
I meant using a distance or some expected distance
<FLHerne>
What distance you're ok with there depends on how precisely you know the trajectories of the two objects
<minas_tirith>
Whats the closest two satellites have been known to fly by without collision?
<darsie>
I think satellites usually can not measure how close a flyby is. In one collision the operators knew about the encounter but thought it would be a flyby.
<minas_tirith>
Wow
<FLHerne>
I don't think things with near-zero relative velocity really count
<minas_tirith>
25m is basically almost brushing past
<FLHerne>
Otherwise every docking is a collision :p
<minas_tirith>
On that note yeah wtf
<minas_tirith>
Dockings would need insane accuracy
<FLHerne>
Yeah, 50,000km/h at 25m is not a great idea
<FLHerne>
Worth noting that they're only a couple of metres across, so even at within that radius it's only something like a 1% chance of an actual collision
<darsie>
ormally I guess collisions are simply avoided by not intersecting orbits, like making them higher or lower, or a little elliptic so one orbit passes over/under another.
<minas_tirith>
Yeah but compared tot he accuracy to which the orbits can be controlled I imagine its a scary figure
<darsie>
Normally*
<darsie>
Only when they intersect they need to avoid collisions by controlling the phase.
<darsie>
It gets a bit crowded at the poles, I guess.
<darsie>
When you have several defunct satellites on decaying orbits it's a matter of luck.
<minas_tirith>
Yeah, who tracks the dead satellites?
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<darsie>
idk who does it, but it's done. Once you know their orbit you just have to observe them every once in a while with a radar.
<darsie>
If Pe is >1000 km, I guess one observation per year would suffice.
<Althego>
probably not much change at that altitude
<Althego>
maybe from solar wind
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<Althego>
i was afraid they did some programming in ada for mars probes
<Althego>
the hirise reminds me. nasa got two never launched hubble sized space telescopes from some intelligence agency. i guess they are outdated. one is going to be an infra red telescope (wfirst, now named roman), the other one is not decided. there are ideas to send it to mars
<Althego>
hirise is already phenomenal
<Althego>
but that is just a tiny one compared these
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<umaxtu>
the NRO might not like that, it would showcase the capabilities of their keyhole sats against ground targets instead of stars
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<raptop>
Well, given a certain photo leak, we already know the capabilities
<umaxtu>
lol
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<umaxtu>
and since when has something being public knowledge stopped intelligence agencies from having a stick up their asses?
<raptop>
okay, true
<Althego>
is that a asafe word?
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<raptop>
doubtful
* raptop
sighs and hands umaxtu a ticket with a one-credit fine
* umaxtu
swears a couple more times and then wonders off to the bathroom
<Alanonzander>
to listen to "mini-tunes" ?
<umaxtu>
sure
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<TwistenX>
I genuinely hate Career mode with a passion
<Althego>
hehe
<Althego>
what happened?
<TwistenX>
Everytime I leave the atmosphere and come back, I'm always moving too fast for my mk16 parachute to deploy.
<Althego>
use the drogue?
<TwistenX>
then my kerbal dies
<Althego>
i always add one, quite small, can fit it under the main
<TwistenX>
I haven't unlocked it yet
<Althego>
the capsule alone is light enough to slow down in time
<TwistenX>
i need to perform """research""" and collect """"""important data""""""
<TwistenX>
such as how many kerbals can i kraken in a few minutes
* darsie
is stuck with his comet sample return mission.
<darsie>
The comet is on a solar escape trajectory, so ...
<TwistenX>
darsie: then do it
<darsie>
yeah ...
<TwistenX>
quickly
<darsie>
It's tough.
<TwistenX>
well, nothing can actually escape Kerbol since it's official that it's Sphere of Influence is infinite
<darsie>
I upgraded it to a comet capture mission :).
<Althego>
palpatine: do it
<darsie>
TwistenX: idk what kind of ellipse KSP thinks of when v>v_esc.
<raptop>
hyperbola!
<darsie>
I've seen ellipses cut off when they extended beyond the SOI.
<TwistenX>
i once had a random class-e asteroid spawn in a orbit around Kerbin that would eventually impact it and i just time warped and watched the asteroid aerodynamics not work
<TwistenX>
By the way, is there any F, G, and H class asteroids in KSP?
<darsie>
impact the atmosphere?
<darsie>
Comets
<darsie>
Haven't seen asteroids >E.
<TwistenX>
I thought I've seen an F before, but I might be wrong
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<FLHerne>
only up to E (without mods, anyway)
<TwistenX>
oh
<TwistenX>
what's the biggest you can get with mods?