raptop changed the topic of #KSPOfficial to: Kerbal Space Program official channel | versions: KSP1 1.12.2 http://bit.ly/ksp112update | Rules: http://tinyurl.com/KSP-Rules | "modcall" to call ops | Δv maps: https://i.imgur.com/CHVnEeE.png https://i.imgur.com/gBoLsSt.png | Now hiring: Probodobodyne, Kerlington Paper Products, Sienar Fleet Systems
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<a_flayer> in my mind, kerbals have no bones, and that's why they can squeeze past engines in crew transfers
<raptop> Ah, the benefits of messing with hydrofluoric acid
<packbart> or they just have short-range personal teleporters
<packbart> teleports? a teleporter is probably a remote butler
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<bees> raptop: You try to use infiniglider physics to go over 3,000 m/s. Your Lorentz factor exceeds 10 digits.
<raptop> Yeah, that would probably happen with a bad atmosphere plus Squad attempting to add relativity
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<raptop> Why is it never aliens? https://arxiv.org/abs/2111.08007
<packbart> The Trisolarans are clever and mask their signal als local microwave-oven interference
<raptop> ...if that's a lensmen reference...
<packbart> nah, it's a reference to the Trisolaris Trilogy. "Trisolaris is the only planet in the Alpha Centauri system. It is the homeworld of the Trisolarans, the main antagonists of the Three-Body Problem sci-fi novel trilogy."
<packbart> Dark Forest is a dark theory. Don't be seen in the galaxy. If you see anyone else, destroy them before they destroy you. https://formularfetischisten.de/~packbart/temp/singer.mp3
<raptop> Ah, sort of like those Greg Bear books (Forge of God and Anvil of Stars)
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<Althego> astra launch
<umaxtu> wow, this is actually the first time I've started KSP on Linux
<raptop> so far so good?
<umaxtu> apart from me not noticing that it was still extracting before I copied every thing to the installation folder
<umaxtu> no wonder it couldn't find UnityPlayer.so
<raptop> oops
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<Althego> astra has a red team, numbered. they have red 5 too
<raptop> Mahi Mahi ☑
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<XXCoder1> partial solar eclipse
<raptop> if you're LRO, I guess?
<XXCoder1> LRO?
<XXCoder1> erm I meant Lunar eclipse lol
<Althego> countdown running again, under 15 min
<raptop> Lunar Reconnaisance Orbiter, that sat NASA put in lunar orbit a decade ago
<XXCoder1> ahh
<Althego> scrub
<XXCoder1> starting to get dark
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<Althego> !time
<Kerbot> Althego => 13:37:53 CET on 2021-11-19 Friday CW 46
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<darsie> .
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<Althego> zombanwa but it is apex
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<raptop> The dream of the parasite fighter lives on?
<Althego> maybe. but darpa tries lot of things which then never realized. but some of them do
<umaxtu> like SpaceX?
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<Mat2ch> unnecessary music, unnecessary jump cuts...
<Mat2ch> vertical video in a horizontal one...
<Mat2ch> what kind of amateurs did this?
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<Mat2ch> and the only really hard thing was to make the flying object dock.
<Mat2ch> I mean that code would be great to have to refuel in flight. But maybe they already had that lying around from some drones.
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<raptop> netsplat!
<Mat2ch> splutsh
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<Althego> dont forget, astra launch again tomorrow
<a_flayer> i want a moon base already
<a_flayer> we need to start sending truckloads of stuff to the moon
<a_flayer> like come on already sheez!
<Althego> i want a mars base
<Althego> moon base is a cop out
<darsie> a_flayer: Why a Moon base?
<Althego> it would just turn into the next iss
<a_flayer> darsie, it's right there!
<darsie> Althego: Why a Mars base? :)
<Althego> spending money on it, without getting progress
<darsie> a_flayer: So just because we want to?
<darsie> I think a Moon base can provide material for space manufacturing etc.
<darsie> Get shielding matter down to Earth orbit for space stations.
<darsie> With a mass driver or a sling shot.
<darsie> Shall we use aluminium/magnesium or steel for space statinos?
<darsie> Carbon steel? No carbon on the Moon.
<umaxtu> iirc, we could make a space elevator at the moon with kevlar
<darsie> mhm
<a_flayer> darsie, specifically because i want it
<darsie> ok :)
<Althego> the best would be of course a moon and a mars base
<Althego> the moon base could build the rockets to go out into the solar system. way easier to launch
<Althego> and mars would be frontier
<darsie> Can be much flimsier rockets than Earth launchers.
<darsie> Can turn Moon water to propellant.
<darsie> Or deliver it to LEO.
<darsie> H2 has 13 bar critical pressure at 33 K.
<darsie> That's a bit tricky to keep liquid.
<darsie> Could be stored as H2O and electrolyzed as needed in flight.
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<trace> hi
<Mod9000> Hello, trace
<trace> does a rotating space station needs a rotation in the other direction too ?
<FLHerne> Probably not
<darsie> no, but it can be useful.
<trace> for what would it be useful
<darsie> Like you can change rotational speed with just solar power and an electric motor.
<darsie> Or, in case of O'Neill cylinders it can cancel their angular momenta adn avoid starting to spin about their stable axis.
<darsie> And you can change attitude, e.g. to face one side towards the sun.
<FLHerne> Is this question about real life stations, or KSP?
<darsie> rl
<darsie> oh, rl answer
<FLHerne> In KSP, tbh I've never found that spinning ring stations work very well; kerbal physics are glitchy enough without a moving reference frame
<FLHerne> but they look pretty
<FLHerne> so build a contra-rotating section if it looks cool for your design, and not otherwise :p
<darsie> e.g. if you had two pairs of starships tetherd together, you could rotate both with just solar energy and an electric motor.
<trace> FLHerne, why don't they work very well
<FLHerne> Collision/physics simulations for Kerbals on EVA aren't great, so they can't stand on the inside of the ring properly
<FLHerne> usually either fall off or ragdoll
<FLHerne> and the spinning makes it a bit tricky to dock
<FLHerne> (that might be another use for a counter-rotating section in real life; I doubt it would help much in KSP)
<FLHerne> and obviously IVA kerbals don't care about 'gravity' at all
<trace> what are IVA kernals and what does kerbal mean
<FLHerne> Everyone builds the things anyway because they look awesome
<FLHerne> trace: You're in #KSPOfficial , this is the Kerbal Space Program game channel
<FLHerne> Kerbals are little greenish humanoid critters
<FLHerne> that you build rockets for
<FLHerne> (and rotating space stations)
<trace> what I knew was that this channel is about that "game" to create space crafts and stations
<trace> but never heared about IVA
<FLHerne> IVA is craft interior view, as labelled on the button next to EVA
<FLHerne> thus presumably 'Intra-Vehicular Activity' by extension from 'Extra-...'
<raptop> I guess I should shill the game a bit: https://www.kerbalspaceprogram.com/
<raptop> Available on a bunch of different stores, I'd recommend a PC version over console for mods
<FLHerne> Anyway, my point is that the reason to build a rotating space station in real life is that they experience a centrifugal force similar to gravity, which is useful for people and systems in it
<raptop> Kerbals by default have life support requirements that make pak protectors look soft and weak
<raptop> (aside maybe from G-tolerance?)
<FLHerne> but KSP doesn't simulate "people and systems in it" in enough detail for that to matter, so the only way your station's crew can experience the centrifugal force is to go spacewalking
<trace> how much G (>1>) can it have?
<FLHerne> and the physics simulation doesn't cope very well with that either, so the practical value of a rotating space station in KSP is about zero
<FLHerne> As much as you want, just spin it faster
<FLHerne> Fundamentally it's just a big centrifuge
<FLHerne> If the speed is too high relative to the diameter, there are undesirable coriolis effects
<trace> which are?
<FLHerne> oops
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<FLHerne> (for some reason copy-paste has stopped working so I had to type it out, and screwed the link up...)
<FLHerne> short answer: moving objects don't go in a straight line
<FLHerne> your human occupants will be confused and also get seasick
<trace> can their be technologies invented to make it becoming okay?
<trace> as induction
<FLHerne> If the station is big and rotates slowly, it shouldn't be a problem
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<trace> I think as well as no gravity is interesting for tests, there should also be a scientific relevance for making tests with a lot of gravity
<FLHerne> For more gravity you don't even need a space station, you can build a big centrifuge on Earth
<FLHerne> video also illustrates Coriolis weirdness
<trace> with greater space stations we could bring greater water areas
<trace> growing plants could be dangerous, because of their growing roots
<trace> afk
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<raptop> Wobbly star refuses to eggsplode: https://arxiv.org/abs/2111.09218
<SporkWitch> FLHerne: i watched a video about a ton of research done on centrifugal gravity and the conclusion seems to be that it's not worth it, generally, at least not for normal ops. still kills me this guy's a goon >_< https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nxeMoaxUpWk
<Mat2ch> The first long distance space travels will probably use it though...
<umaxtu> a year in zero-g seems alright. anything much longer than that and I start to wonder
<Mat2ch> but we don't know if Mars gravity is enough for the human body
<Mat2ch> and then you've got to get back as well
<darsie> Or you don't.
<umaxtu> its probably better than no gravity
<darsie> Lotsa ppl are in to stay.
<darsie> At least they think so.
<Mat2ch> The first waves will be death traps...
<SporkWitch> i suspect Kim Stanley Robinson's "Mars" trilogy probably got the reduced gravity angle right. In terms of physiology, it's the absence of gravity that's the problem. A reasonable amount would be enough to let our systems that require it to function properly continue to function, though potentially in a reduced capacity. There's also the conditioning factor; return is gonna SUCK
<Mat2ch> just like exploring all the oceans was
<darsie> Artificial gravity also helps doing kidney stone removal surgery. Well, with the katether methods it doesn't make as much difference.
<darsie> Other surgeries, then.
<darsie> appendix maybe