Judge_Dedd changed the topic of #KSPOfficial to: Kerbal Space Program official channel | versions: KSP1 1.11.0 | Rules: tinyurl.com/KSP-Rules | "modcall" to call ops | Δv maps: https://i.imgur.com/CHVnEeE.pnghttps://i.imgur.com/gBoLsSt.png | Althego is doing
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<packbart>
with friction on the front wheel turned down to 0, at least it (barely) lifts off. but man, those turboshafts guzzle fuel, compared to two Goliaths
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* raptop
wants to say that there are things you can do with RPM and pitch
<packbart>
yeah, I have the torque bound to main throttle and prop pitch to wheel throttle. still, the same plane with two Goliath engines was much faster with better range. anyway, I'll tinker a bit with it and maybe search the forum for inspirations
<Althego>
normally a prop plane should be more fuel efficient than a jet, if it moves in the correct speed regime
<raptop>
Sure, but props are too slow to benefit from centrifugal lift
<packbart>
given that I have almost no experience building planes in KSP and just slapped a few parts together
<packbart>
take off is easy. now to get it back down again
<Althego>
hehe
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<packbart>
landed :)
<packbart>
(ok, I "cheated" and used MJ's autoland, so I just had to press h or n to adjust the prop pitch to achieve whatever speed MJ was targeting)
<Althego>
pilot entry: autoland is too rough. maintenance entry: autoland is not installed on this aircraft
<packbart>
yeah, I was rather surprised that it actually worked. MJ tends to slam the plane either into into the runway lights or the mountains (depending on selected approach)
<packbart>
so maybe the manually controlled propeller helped
<packbart>
I usually land my science plane on the grass next to the runway
<packbart>
and bounce a little :)
<Althego>
normally the end of runway is marked by those stripes. so a proper landing should happen a bit after those
<packbart>
for that you'd need to tune MJ's PID parameters to the plane. it's no fits-all automagic
<packbart>
MechJeb has its limits and they're usually fatal
<Althego>
mrax exists for this kind of stuff :)
<Althego>
mrac
<Althego>
hehe not marx
<Althego>
based on what mechjeb can already do, it shouldnt be too hard to add a some kind of adaptive control
<packbart>
the code is a bit overgrown. you can make out several different coding styles in it. still, works good enough for the most part
<packbart>
ugh, "aim camera" at one of the prop blades is quite a dizzying experience :)
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<Althego>
hehe flat earther rants about physics. mr sensible watching it: so... you are listening to glasses of water? ... right...
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<Mat2ch>
ah, SpaceX now makes their own oxygen. ;)
<Althego>
finally
<Althego>
then they probably they make their own nitrogen too
<Althego>
if it is done by air condensation
<Mat2ch>
And distilling oxygen is easier than I thought. You just need to clean the incoming air, compress it and then expand it into a tall standing tube and let gravity do the rest.
<packbart>
even at full pitch-up, it loses altitude fast while banking because the blade pitch is symmetric on both sides but their AoA isn't
<packbart>
or at least I think that's what it is. maybe should have turned off SAS
<Althego>
these are feathered
<Althego>
not making any thrust
<Althego>
ah just in the beginning
<Althego>
anyway they look strange to me
<Althego>
ok maybe later i try look into the turboprop thingie, never tried it
<packbart>
the engine driving the propellers shouldn't really matter. but the blade pitch needs to be varied with speed because they have a rather narrow optimal AoA angle
<packbart>
that's what I gathered. I still don't really have a clue what I'm doing there ;)
<packbart>
at least it stays in the air
<packbart>
200m/s ain't bad for a ~60t plane. although the double-Goliath easily reaches 300+ and consumes much less fuel
<Althego>
yes, i learned that the hard way when i tried to build a stop prop engine some versions ago, before the prop blades existed
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<Webchat233>
hello
<Mod9000>
Hello, Webchat233
<Webchat233>
hello guys]
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<Althego>
i was like, woho, go for max thrust. then max speed was low because thrust fell off fast as the craft was getting faster
<Althego>
hhe
<Althego>
so then i decreased pitch, initial 0 speed thrust was lower but i could fly
<packbart>
I have the pitch bound to the wheel throttle and it's really just a few h/n key strokes between "good thrust" and "no thrust" and "reverse"
<Althego>
and amazingly this all worked out by the standard aero elements
<Althego>
i think wheel throttle is not set by default
<Althego>
and not much place to bind it anyway
<Althego>
left on the keyboard
<packbart>
so I think automation is the way to go for the prop blade pitch
<Althego>
in reality you have 3 throttles
<Althego>
and the pilot controls them
<Althego>
what was the third, mixture maybe?
<packbart>
yeah, I use the main throttle for the engine torque. not sure if I really need it. I left it full-on in this test
<Althego>
so anyway we dont have a third throttle anyway
<packbart>
well, you could bind something to "wheel steering"
<packbart>
j/l
<Althego>
those are already taken by rcs
<Althego>
but actually i had quite good experience with fixed pitch props
<Althego>
but maybe the lack of pitch controls explaines why i had such a hard time flating on duna
<packbart>
the heavy thing didn't fly too well with fixed pitch
<packbart>
or maybe that's just my lack of pilot experience
<Althego>
i still want to make an infinite delta v duna plane that unfolds from a fairing
<Althego>
maybe in an hour i am going to try and build a similar thing
<packbart>
I need to drive to the office now, anyway. a delivery arrived and I've got a question from a coworker that I can't answer with the passwords I have on my laptop at home yet
<Althego>
hehe
<Althego>
so supposedly throttle (black) changes engine speed, the blue changes the blade angles and, mixture (red) changes fuel ratio, because at higher altitudes there is less oxygen to go with
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<Althego>
nanowar of steel new music teaser 2021. i am speed
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<Althego>
SPOILER: You will be disappointed. And if you won't, then WE will be disappointed.
<Althego>
well, i am disappointed already. or they are joiking and they will do something else
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<Althego>
there seems to be a console update in the works. so i guess no 1.11.1 for a while
<Althego>
let's see what i can do with the turboprop
<nate>
And this is why KSP taught me to always put wheels on everything so you can relocate if need be
<nate>
:P
<Althego>
it landed in a huge area with similar properties
<Althego>
in fact they chose the most boring flattest terrain they could
<nate>
Sure but it's a planet that every drone'd expedition to still manages to find something new, gotta prepare for all contingencies!
<packbart>
they didn't pack a Kerbal Engineer
<Althego>
hehe
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<Althego>
it seems the prop angle thing does help. i can get something like 50 m/s extra out of it if i change the angle mid flight to smaller
<Althego>
as for the launch i would still refer tothe engine change
<Althego>
maybe they put back the same
<Althego>
there doesnt seem to be enough time
<packbart>
the PAW displays the prop AoA which is useful
<umaxtu>
PAW?
<Althego>
but i cant compare the engine fuel flow rate to a jet, it is in completely different units
<Althego>
part action window
<packbart>
umaxtu: the right-click window
<Althego>
i call it a context menuy, because that is what it is
<umaxtu>
aw
<packbart>
Althego: yeah, I watched the "time til empty" on the fuel tank with the Alternate Resource Panel mod
<Althego>
hehe
<packbart>
those timers are the only thing I use it for but it's really handy sometimes
<Althego>
and ultimately adding separate wheel controls didnt help, since the normal controls still remained wheel controls too. and i am going to keep it that way. so i caved in and used the translation control
<packbart>
with two Goliath it would show some 3+h at ~300m/s while it was less than an hour with the four turboshaft engines at 150-200m/s
<Althego>
but i still think you props are the wrong way around
<packbart>
hm
<Althego>
i think it doesnt matter too much for the game
<packbart>
but the pink and yellow lines point in the right direction
<packbart>
I matched their rotational variant to the engine
<Althego>
but in reality the blades are twisted. so the high angle of attack slow part should be in the base and the small angle of attack part should be at the tip
<Althego>
i always have to rotate them manually
<Althego>
to get the look i would expect from a real plane
<packbart>
well, I did press "w" before attaching them
<packbart>
they look right at 0° and prodruce no thrust as expected
<Althego>
and i cry for the poor navigation lights
<Althego>
sorry for the sound, listening to yt in the background
<Althego>
so every time i have to rotate the blades 180 deg, change the deploy angle to reverse, and for the other side obviously use the other variant, along with hcanging the engine direction
<Althego>
i dont get why i have to do all this for proper attachment
<packbart>
yeah, and if you detach and reattach them you need to click "deploy" again
<Althego>
so the default deploy goes in the wrong direction, towards maximum drag. i want the undeployed to go towards minimum drag, that is why i change the deploy direction
<Althego>
the maximum drag config is pointless
<Althego>
but you can glide well with the featherd
<Althego>
yes looking at it now, the blades are ok
<packbart>
hm. wait, this is the 4x4 bladed one. the last one I used had 4x8 blades. doesn't matter much, though
<packbart>
a bit better take-off performance but otherwise handles mostly the same
<packbart>
prop blade AoA of about 9° seems to be best
<packbart>
the rotor RPM in the 8-blade config varies much more with blade pitch than with the 4-blade. odd
<Althego>
goes up to 190 at 2km
<Althego>
that is what i could get with 2 props and tuning the blade angle for speed
<Althego>
the center of lift is too far behind the center of mass, so hard to steer
<packbart>
yeah, I know. and the landing gear is maybe too far behind the center of mass, too
<Althego>
ok you have more fuel in the center tank than in mine
<packbart>
but I didn't want to put a wing over the windows :)
<Althego>
ah yes i hate this
<Althego>
something is wrong with the lift of the wings
<Althego>
every time i get stuff like this
<Althego>
wing on the windows
<Althego>
or too far forward close to the cabin
<Althego>
but that is how i get realistic performance
<Althego>
if i make it look like a real plane the indicators are off and it doesnt fly well
<packbart>
now that I look at them both, the 4x4 actually handles better than the 4x8
<Althego>
scott (35 minutes ago)
<packbart>
because of the more constant RPM. huh. I wonder why it varies so much more
<packbart>
anyway, thanks for testing. I guess I'll just have to try flying more. the atmosphere ususally is just that thing between the launchpad and space in my game :)
<Althego>
hehe
<Althego>
some people build planes only, or rovers only
<Althego>
and they dont even care about space
<packbart>
some even build boats and submarines
<Althego>
i think of myself as one of the first submarinesrs
<Althego>
i dived in every ocean in ksp
<Althego>
ok at that time there was no way to maneuver with the sub on eve
<Althego>
but now with electric props, it should be possible
<packbart>
if they would work under water - which they don't, apparently :(
<packbart>
(the prop blades that is, still can use elevons on a rotor)