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<awang> How can I determine what glide slope will give the the max range on a plane?
<awang> And/or what rate of descent
<Bornholio> find your glide ratio (forward speed / drop speed) at stable minimum drop speed (this should be just above your stall speed
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<awang> Stable minimum drop speed?
<Bornholio> Thats the speed you drop at when just above stall speed
<Bornholio> Stall speed is V = √( 2 W g / ρ S Clmax )
<awang> Oh
<awang> Hmmm
<Bornholio> Speed = sqrt ( 2*Weight*9.81/density of air*wing Area*Coefficient of lift
<awang> Pity FAR doesn't give that information directly
<Bornholio> its easiest to just drop test or powered test the craft to find what speed you start stall oscillation at
<awang> Bit late for that, unfortunately
<Bornholio> lol. save and hyper edit testing time
<awang> idk if I want to rely on quicksaves
<awang> They seem to have been a bit buggy lately
<awang> Planes are turning cartwheels on load or something like that
<awang> Probably will end up using Hyperedit's land here
<Bornholio> yes in air saves suck
<awang> Don't want to redo the mission just because I released a minute early or something
<Bornholio> a good space glider should have a stall near 75m/s and a glide ration of 4-7 (shuttle was 4.5)
<awang> And of course TF decides to kill my engine so I can't get that last ~100 m/s out of it
<awang> It's a X-1-ish thing
<awang> Uhhhh
<Bornholio> thought you could test it your self :P
<awang> I think I'd get some really weird looks from the other library patrons
<awang> Welp, just screwed things up by activating AA
<awang> Looks like it really doesn't like flying the X-1 after detaching
<awang> Yeah, no way I'm making it back at this rate
<Bornholio> see if you can get it in a controlled spin, gain speed and then slowly pull out
<awang> Wut
<awang> Tried to use hyperedit to land the vessel
<awang> End up in space, altitude 652000
<Bornholio> need to set altitude
<awang> Altitude 80
<awang> Yep, that's definitely a revert
<awang> Dangit
<awang> And it was going so well
<awang> Oh jeez
<awang> That thing was launched a heck of a lot lower than I thought
<awang> Also a lot slower than I thought
<Bornholio> yeah i always feel real silly doing SO flights with that cockpit :)
<soundnfury> awang: glide slope == L/D, which FAR gives you, so just aim to optimise that :)
<awang> Bornholio: ...That sounds mildly broken
<awang> soundnfury: Oh. That's handy. So just find the pitch which maximizes L/D?
<awang> Now if only I had a way to actually maintain a steady pitch...
<awang> How does FAR determine estimated range/endurance?
<taniwha> it's a slightly complicated equation, but after close inspection, it looks a lot like the rocket equation
<taniwha> essentially, it computes burn time based on a decreasing fuel flow rate (iirc), then uses that time and a constant current velocity to find range
<awang> Hmmm
<awang> That sounds surprisingly simple
<awang> I'm just wondering how much I should rely on it
<awang> Because the time remaining quoted by MJ is obviously wrong for planes, especially when flying at really high altitudes
<awang> And given I want to reach high altitude/speed, ideally I'll run out of fuel with just about enough glide range to return to the runway
<awang> So I don't exactly have a lot of margin
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<taniwha> I used to think FAR's estimate was way out, but once I got better at flying, I have found it to be quite reliable
<taniwha> or even an under estimate
<taniwha> (FAR assumes you are in level flight with constant velocity)
<taniwha> awang: main thing for gliding is to watch the L/D
<taniwha> keep that as high as possible
<awang> Hmmm
<awang> It predicts 7.09 hours, when MJ says I have 11 minutes 45 seconds of fuel left
<awang> Flying at ~22500m at ~200 m/s
<awang> idk if that's reasonable
<awang> But my intuition says that something has got to be wrong
<awang> I don't trust my intuition much though
<awang> Watch L/D, got it
<awang> It fluctuated a ton due to SAS instability, but I'll try to keep it up
<awang> Does high L/D still apply when gliding at supersonic speeds?
<awang> And high altitudes?
<Ezko_> awang: L/D = lift/drag so the amount of lift you produce divided by the amount of drag you produce
<taniwha> awang: do not use SAS with planes
<taniwha> use trim instead
<taniwha> also, disable non-aerodynamic torque sources
<Ezko_> alright maybe i'll read what he asked before saying anything else
<Ezko_> tldr
<taniwha> Ezko_: :)
<awang> taniwha: I mean, SAS seems to be better than the alternative of no SAS
<awang> Sort of
<awang> You have any other options?
<taniwha> no, no SAS is better than SAS
<awang> Besides Atmosphere Autopilot, since that *really* doesn't like dropping planes from other planes
<taniwha> adjusting the trim gives you a much better flight than SAS ever will
<awang> Oh, right
<awang> Trim
<awang> Forgot about that
<awang> And no non-aerodynamic torque sources means no RCS?
<taniwha> right
<awang> How high do I have to go before aerodynamic surfaces stop being effective?
<taniwha> RCS, pod torque (though this is RO, so...)
<awang> I was reaching ~1200 m/s at 30km
<awang> I don't actually know if RCS was useful then
<taniwha> depends on your velocity, but even at 30-40km they work if your expectations aren't too high
<taniwha> (that's for Kerbin, Earth will be higher)
<taniwha> but at 1200m/s, they should be quite effective at 30km
<awang> Ah, ok
<awang> Guess I should ditch the RCS then
<awang> Save that little bit of weight
<taniwha> and drag, too
<awang> True
<awang> Wonder how much drag they were actually responsible for
<taniwha> and actually a lot of weight when you take the RCS propellant into account
<awang> It'd be awesome if FAR could show those CFD visualizations for airflow
<awang> I'd imagine that that's slightly out of scope, though
<taniwha> yeah, probably
<taniwha> even gimballing engines are unnecessary (they /are/ useful for highly maneuverable fighters, but that's something else)
<Ezko_> doing a 20g turn is fun though
<Ezko_> until the airframe snaps in 50 pieces
<taniwha> or the pilot blacks out, the plane gets locked into that 20g turn and spirals into the ground
<Ezko_> so nice
<taniwha> (which /might/ be a bug in my joystick driver: I need to check)
<taniwha> (my "driver" respects input locks, but rather than locking stick controls to the current input, maybe it should lock to neutral)
<awang> Ezko_: Just bump up the mass/strength slider until you don't get any more RUD :P
<taniwha> (since the stick should probably pull itself from an unconscious hand)
<Ezko_> yeah and eventually the speed drops enough to make the turn less than 20g :P
<taniwha> Ezko_: still, as I said: that's different :) (like anything else, planes too are applicable to "the right tool for the job")
<Ezko_> at least if your twr is less than like 15 or whatever it takes to make a circle where the g is 20+
<taniwha> you don't need high TWR to get 20+g turns
<taniwha> just crazy pitch authority
<taniwha> (which is doable without gimballing engines)
<taniwha> Ezko_: btw, for stock Kerbin (with FAR), do you think it's possible to make an SSTO plane using Junos and an LV-909? :)
<taniwha> it's a little long, but... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=99pJQKyFi6k
<Ezko_> i had to check what juno is but i think it's probably possible but probably not very useful :P
<Ezko_> i haven't played ksp much in a few years
<Ezko_> :(
<taniwha> another guy managed to tweak my design to get into orbit with a docking port and RCS
<taniwha> but yeah, not super useful
<Ezko_> that aoa on that video yhouth
<Ezko_> though
<Ezko_> well i guess 4 degrees is alright
<Ezko_> i think the sr-71 ideal aoa at cruise was more than that
<taniwha> dunno, but I was keeping an eye on my L/D
<taniwha> however, yay, I found the original recording. I can edit it into something a little more "fun" to watch (faster, music, etc)
<Ezko_> Rokker studies fluid dynamics in university so he should obviously know everything
<taniwha> hehe
<taniwha> however, that plane is theoretically useful: recon
<taniwha> (not so useful in KSP, though)
<taniwha> the muttering you hear is mostly me fiddling with encoding rates because twitch was flaking out
<awang> Is there a plane that cruises over 50km?
<awang> I need some inspiration to rip off
<taniwha> dunno about 50km, but look into the U2
<taniwha> (iirc)
<awang> Only 21km, unfortunately
<taniwha> yeah
<awang> I can beat that with a B-29-ish craft
<taniwha> just looked it up to verify the name
<awang> Although I have no clue how close/far my B-29-ish thing is to the real B-29
<awang> Dangit
<awang> World record for jet aircraft is 37650m
<awang> Looks like I'm stuck with sounding rockets for high-altitude things
<awang> Such a pain to hit all the biomes...
<taniwha> you can do rocket assisted planes
<awang> That's a good idea
<taniwha> fly to location on jet, switch to rocket to get the altitude, then switch back to jet to cruise around some more
<awang> Given that the XLR11 is my only reignitable engine right now might prove tricky though
<awang> s/now might/now, that might
<Qboid> awang meant to say: Given that the XLR11 is my only reignitable engine right now, that might prove tricky though
<taniwha> even a single shot is better than sounding rockets
<awang> Guess I'm going to be sitting in the SPH for a while
<taniwha> got that up over 22km
<awang> Have to design that, and have to design a more reusable X-1 for those X-Plane (High) contracts
<awang> That's a pretty interesting design
<taniwha> same plane without the rockets: http://taniwha.org/~bill/screenshot4197.png
<Ezko_> awang: sr-71 published service ceiling is 85000 feet or 25900 meters, u-2 is 70000+ feet, both are probably still classified but i would guess that cruising at 50+km is very difficut and can't be done with current engine tech
<taniwha> it's my first truly successful stock-only plane
<taniwha> works well both stock and FAR
<awang> "truly successful"?
<awang> taniwha: Was that over 22km Kerbin or Earth?
<taniwha> Kerbin
<awang> Ezko_: Yeah, came to the same conclusion
<taniwha> so about 44km for Earth
<Ezko_> taniwha: you live in japan?
<taniwha> I do
<Ezko_> cool
<Ezko_> i think i need to visit soon since i'm almost done with european countries
<Ezko_> ones i want to visit anyway
<Ezko_> taniwha: do you have a car there?
<taniwha> yes
<taniwha> my wife's, but yeah
<Ezko_> a normal car or a kei car? :P
<taniwha> actually, we have 3
<Ezko_> kei cars are a pretty cool concept
<taniwha> two normal, one kei
<Ezko_> not really applicable to finland though
<Ezko_> except for maybe people under 18
<taniwha> however, the kei seats 4
<Ezko_> the point of kei cars is the lack of space though
<Ezko_> and we don't have that ehre :P
<taniwha> yeah
<Ezko_> japan is maybe 15% larger than finland but has over 20 times as many people
<awang> Dangit
<Ezko_> what happened
<awang> What's with MM and sometimes refusing to load the proc avionics part
<awang> Just started KSP and apparently proc avionics didn't compile or load correctly
<awang> So all vessels with it were deleted
<Ezko_> the will of crom
<awang> Again
<Ezko_> is what causes it
<awang> I'll bet that the next time I start KSP the problem is gone
<awang> Also, will of crom?
<Ezko_> yes
<Ezko_> alright good night guys
<awang> Night!
<taniwha> awang: I guess proc avionics is still flaky
<taniwha> might be a bad MM spec (note, just a guess)
<taniwha> anyway, check KSP.log
<taniwha> specifically for where the PA parts are being loaded
<awang> taniwha: Interestingly, "proceduralAvionics" was only mentioned 4 times in the log
<awang> All 4 times as part of MM's logging of what patches it was applying
<awang> No mention of anything wrong
<taniwha> look at the parts themselves
<awang> And at least in the past, the issue has been basically completely random
<taniwha> ie, when the part is being "compiled" by KSP
<awang> Start KSP, things work fine
<taniwha> because that's were the error is occurring
<awang> Start KSP again after having touched literally nothing, things break
<awang> Start KSP again after having touched literally nothing, things work fine again
<awang> There's no mention of proc avionics in the part of the log where KSP is compiling things
<taniwha> there might not be any mention of it
<taniwha> look for the parts themselves (by internal part name)
<awang> What should I look for then?
<awang> Isn't "proceduralAvionics" their internal part name?
<awang> That's what's used in the MM patches?
<taniwha> random example: [LOG 15:58:51.423] PartLoader: Compiling Part 'AirPark/Parts/Airpark_InfoDrive/Airpark_InfoDrive/Airpark_InfoDrive'
<taniwha> (er, AirPark? I have that installed?)
<taniwha> er, no, it's someone else's log file
<taniwha> and sorry, it's the part's GameData path, not the internal part name
<awang> Oh
<taniwha> awang: the problem is that the part compilation is failing, which is LONG after MM had done its magic
<awang> The GameData path is the path to the .cfg that defines the part?
<taniwha> yes
<awang> Ah
<awang> Then the name was "ProceduralAvionics". Stupid case-sensitive searches...
<taniwha> no, not stupid :)
<taniwha> (though yes, they are a trap for the unwary)
<awang> Yeah...
<awang> I should remember to add \c to my searches more frequently
<taniwha> \c... vim?
<awang> Yep
<awang> Bad choice?
<taniwha> nope
<taniwha> 1) I use vim. 2) if it gets the job done and doesn't drive you batty in the process, then it's not a bad choice :)
<taniwha> awang: re vim, you know of * and #?
<taniwha> (as commands)
<awang> Yep
<awang> I don't use them nearly enough, but I do use them
<taniwha> I don't use # much, but I do make extensive use of *
<taniwha> also ctrl-p
<awang> ctrl-p, the plugin?
<taniwha> no, edit mode command
<awang> Then I don't know about that
<taniwha> it does a prefix-search (using the word before the cursor) for word completion
<awang> ctrl-p just seems to scroll up for me
<awang> Then again, I may be on an old version of vim
<taniwha> it has been there for a very long time
<taniwha> at least 10 years
<awang> idk then
<awang> It doesn't seem to be working for me
<taniwha> the word does have to be in the file (though I have seen it search included C headers)
<awang> Just scrolls up for me
<awang> Equivalent to hitting k
<taniwha> that's because you are in command mode, not edit mode
<awang> Ohhhhh
<taniwha> (I might be misnaming things)
<awang> That could be handy
<awang> Never took the time to learn about vim's more advanced features, so that was one I had not heard about
<taniwha> it will help you when people say you should use VS for its "inteli"sense
<taniwha> (I find that ntelisense gets in the way more often than not)
<awang> To be honest, I haven't used a "real" IDE in such a long time that I've pretty much forgotten about using completions
<awang> taniwha: "Pattern not found: Compiling.*ProceduralA"
<awang> "\ccompiling.*proceduralav" doesn't work either
<awang> Seems the part isn't being compiled at all?
<awang> Yep, part didn't show up again
<awang> Found the problem
<awang> MM patch was borked
<awang> Wasn't a problem with earlier MM versions, but v3.0 made that an error
<awang> Presto, no more proc avionics part
<blowfish> awang: you're starting with MM errors and just ignoring them?
<blowfish> also where is this error? Been fixing it in a number of mods, but there may be others still remaining
<awang> blowfish: Well, I didn't expect them to punch me in the face this hard
<awang> You already submitted a PR, it just hasn't been merged
<awang> RP-0 error
<blowfish> ah
<awang> RO/RP-0 errors are the only ones left
<awang> And one SXT error, but I already submitted a PR for that
<Qboid> [9159e] title: Fixed FAR patch for compatibility with updated ModuleManager 3.0.0 by Jonathan Bayer | Additions: 11 | Deletions: 9 | https://github.com/linuxgurugamer/SXTContinued/commit/9159ed3be28ccd277a59b138ca3bf634e328bf21
<blowfish> ohhhhh
<blowfish> just realized the error won't come up unless you have satisfied NEEDS
<taniwha> awang: yeah, not finding the compiling line is a sign of trouble :)
<awang> blowfish: Guess that might be it?
<awang> Have a bajillion and one mods installed
<awang> taniwha: Yep, part wasn't even being created
<taniwha> yeah
<awang> Well
<awang> Guess I didn't need those satellites anyways
<taniwha> maybe, but you /did/ find (and fix?) an MM patch problem :)
<taniwha> and get another debug tool in your arsenal
<awang> Well
<awang> Re-fixed
<awang> blowfish fixed those
<awang> PRs haven't been merged
<awang> RO/RP-0 dev freeze ftw
<taniwha> yeah, thus the ?
<taniwha> and dev freezes should not reject fixes :P
<taniwha> or even small features, for that matter
<awang> If only
<awang> RO/RP-0 has quite the backlog at this rate
<awang> I think
<blowfish> problem is no one with commit access is active right now
<taniwha> need some more deputies
<taniwha> but to get those deputies, need someone with admin access :/
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<awang> Um
<awang> Anyone know at what point you could start dragging fuel levels in the staging thing?
<awang> Or what mod might add this?
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<awang> OH COME ON
<awang> Spend like an hour getting the X-1 launch ready, and TF kills the XLR11 on ignition
<awang> Thanks
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<awang> You know what
<awang> I give up
<awang> This takes wayyy too long
<awang> And I know what contrats this would fulfill already
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<awang> ferram4: For the yellow Cm line in the FAR static analysis GUI
<awang> Does the line being above/below zero matter?
<awang> Or only the slope?
<awang> For example, if I have part of the line above zero for say an AoA of 0-5 degrees, but below zero for 5-25 degrees
<awang> But the line has a negative slope the entire way
<awang> Would my plane be stable over the entire AoA range?
<taniwha> awang: only slope
<taniwha> zero crossing is the neutral point (ie, the AoA to which the plane tends)
<awang> Ah, so that's what that means
<awang> Thanks!
<soundnfury> o/ awang, taniwha
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<awang> \o soundnfury
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<awang> Do I have to recompile B9 proc wings to get a thinner minimum thickness?
<awang> I just read that the X-1E had a wing thickness of 3/8" at the root
<awang> But B9 seems to limit me to 40mm
<soundnfury> awang: that sounds more like wing _skin_ thickness
<soundnfury> I'd be very surprised if the X-1E had a wing <1cm thick...
<soundnfury> although OTOH, 1cm _is_ a bit thick for skin too; idk v0v
<awang> Wikipedia says "changes included... A re-profiled super-thing wing (3/8 inches at the root), based on the X-3 Stiletto wing profile, enabling the X-1E to reach Mach 2"
<awang> I took that to mean the wing itself was 3/8" thick
<awang> 3/8" does sound pretty thick for the skin to me
<awang> That'd be pretty darn heavy, wouldn't it?
<awang> Also, proper area ruling is hard o_O
<awang> Don't have the part flexibility to easily compensate for wings
<awang> And is there a significant aerodynamic difference between the Taerobee X-1 cockpit and the RP-0 one?
<soundnfury> yikes, okay then (X-3 was craaaazy btw)
<awang> Crazy in what way?
<soundnfury> just look at the thing. Intrinsically stabby.
<awang> UmbralRaptor's aircraft of choice
<UmbralRaptor> <_<
<egg> !wpn UmbralRaptor
* Qboid gives UmbralRaptor a gamma VS-15
* UmbralRaptor presents text photons.
<UmbralRaptor> "the X-3's planned Westinghouse J46engines were unable to meet the thrust, size and weight requirements, so lower-thrust Westinghouse J34 turbojets were substituted, producing only 4,900 lbf (21.8 kN) of thrust with afterburner rather than the planned 7,000 lbf (31.3 kN)."
<UmbralRaptor> ow
<awang> How good/bad of an idea is it to mess with B9 proc wing mass-strength multipliers?
<Bornholio> are you burning off wings or stressing them off?
<awang> As of now, neither
<awang> I haven't tried any particularly stressful maneuvers
<awang> Just plain speed for now
<awang> As for burning them off, idk
<awang> They're rated for Mach 3, but I've hit Mach 4 at 30km and no temperature gauges showed up
<awang> Does anyone here bother trying to tune the fuselage for good area ruling?
<soundnfury> awang: I usually try to area rule, but mainly by lining up the various lumps
<soundnfury> I don't tend to e.g. waist my fuselage
<awang> How many lumps do you have on your aircraft usually?
<Qboid> awang: egg left a message for you in #kspacademia [10.12.2017 16:12:10]: "can you test https://github.com/eggrobin/Principia/tree/use-the-current-time with realism overhaul to see if it fixes your krash crash, and whether it introduces weirdness in RSS launches (try using procedural SRBs to check that #1421 isn't brought back by this)"
<soundnfury> wings, tailfin, horizontal stabiliser (either tailplane or canard), bulges holding SM tanks if I need to carry extra LS, bulges holding equipment/experiments (e.g. sometimes a camera), maybe droptanks...
<soundnfury> *shrug* depends on the mission really
<soundnfury> mmm, I love planetary probes
<Bornholio> probing outer planets?
<soundnfury> just Mars at this point
<Bornholio> darn i can't make crude jokes then
<Bornholio> I like mars becuase dV is low and plus moons
<soundnfury> In a previous career game I _did_ do a fly-by of Ouranos, if that's what you mean.
<soundnfury> Bornholio: sadly, there aren't any moons right now (either RSS or Kopernicus is presumably bugged)
<Bornholio> thats likely kop, there is a new version lately
<soundnfury> See, this is why I usually call it Caelus.
<soundnfury> mmm, is it for 1.2.2?
<Bornholio> 1.3.1
<soundnfury> -_-
<soundnfury> well, hopefully by the time I want to visit fear and panic, RP-1 will be 1.3.1-ready.
<Bornholio> look in RSS scaled textures from pap for whick version on Kop to use
<Bornholio> sure
<soundnfury> hmm, sadly installed Kop doesn't report its version -_-
<soundnfury> that was released in August, so it's _probably_ what I've got...
<Thomas> It reports it's version, take a look at the files in Logs/Kopernicus
<soundnfury> Thomas: ah ty, didn't know about those
<soundnfury> looks like I've got 1.2.2-6, so yeah, better update
<soundnfury> aaaand Phobos log says it doesn't like noiseType=ridgedMultifractal
<Thomas> Yes, thats something that was resolved in later backports
<soundnfury> yup, /me sees it in the release notes for 1.3.0-2
<soundnfury> ok, guess I'll update that on next restart then
<soundnfury> thanks!
* egg stares at the golden spreadsheet thingy
<egg> awang: have the maintainers of the things that are 1.3-compatible pending pull request been seen again?
* egg pokes the ghost of NK with a stick
<awang> egg: I have no idea
<awang> Does soundnfury count?
* egg pokes soundnfury with a stick
<egg> probably not
<egg> too squishy
<Bornholio> .cries
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<AmbulatoryCortex> There we go, been ages since I was in here
<egg> oh hey a walking brain
<egg> AmbulatoryCortex: you're not the only one
<AmbulatoryCortex> so, having just been to KSC, I'm wanting to play RO again, I assume their are some config files I can help mangle?
<soundnfury> egg: I have not been at all looking at 1.3 or compatibility thereof
<egg> awang: see, he doesn't count
<egg> yeah, I know
<soundnfury> egg: of course I don't count, I'm a mathmo
<soundnfury> I do combinatorics instead
<AmbulatoryCortex> ah, cool, I was looking at the wrong spreadsheet
* egg slaps soundnfury with a Catalan triangle
<soundnfury> ow, pointy!
<awang> :(
<awang> Starwaster: How did you find part.skinExposedArea?
<Starwaster> dont remember, either from looking at Part's fields or from FlightIntegrator
<awang> Is it something I would be able to find in-flight?
<awang> Or do I need to repurpose a mod to print that value?
<Starwaster> I'm using a custom build of DRE to expose it... but it might be in either the aero or thermal GUI?
<Starwaster> Which you can open from the debug window
<Starwaster> brb
<Starwaster> no not in either of those. I thought it might be but I dont see it
<awang> Time to find something to hijack then
<awang> Guess I can stick it into MJ then
<Starwaster> wow... the original Mk1-2 heat shield that comes with DRE is not as effective in KSP 1.3.1.... it's no longer enough to protect the pod :(
<awang> What changed?
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<AndreZero> hello
<Bornholio> hi, starwaster does real heat affect that at all?
<AndreZero> I'd like to try fixing the config files in AJE that reference legacy Firespitter models by pointing them to the current models but I can't figure out how to get the correct path to the models. Could anyone help me figure that out (or point me to a reference)?
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<Bornholio> awesome. lets .poke some people NathanKell|AFK ferran4
<Bornholio> ferram4
<Bornholio> !seen blowfish
<Qboid> Bornholio: Value cannot be null.
<Starwaster> bornholio I doubt that it would
<Starwaster> also, the value cannot be null
<Bornholio> I'm using PhineasFreaks 1.3.1 RH dll so if i get loaded up i'll test later
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<Starwaster> awang I'm not sure what changed... that shield never covered the entire bottom but the amount of heat that came through wasn't enough to seriously matter -
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<Starwaster> so more heat would be my guess OR the manner in which occlusion is calculated changed OR the exposed area of the pod is calculated differently
<Bornholio> Lately i've had to shadow payloads quite a bit for re-entry to always be successful
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<Starwaster> bornholio, honestly both DRE and stock reentry have always been too lenient with regards to the effects of occlusion on reentry heating. Even the top or backface of a reentry vehicle needs shielding
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<Bornholio> true but at this point ther is now way to "apply" heat shielding
<Starwaster> fairing?
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<Bornholio> then nothing inside works
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<awang> \o
<awang> Anyone see anything like this before?
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<BadInternetCo> Ughh
<Bornholio> ?
<BadInternetCo> Mechjeb docking autopilot is being a dumb and so am I and I just can't dock witg my space station
<AmbulatoryCortex> just fly straight at it with your main engine
<Bornholio> turn all the authority down and then use that to balance
<BadInternetCo> Sounds like a deal
<Bornholio> rcs that is
<Starwaster> badinternetco what is the docking autopilot doing that's being dumb? Is your RCS array properly balanced? Can it translate in all directions without imparting angular momentum?
<BadInternetCo> Yeah, it should be. The autopilot just brings me to a complete halt just before aligning with the docking port.
<awang> Does KSP at least try to help you keep things balanced by throttling certain RCS engines?
<BadInternetCo> Seems so.
<BadInternetCo> I think I may have gotten too little rcs onto my craft
<BadInternetCo> She turns like a dying turtle
<BadInternetCo> Ughhh
<BadInternetCo> I don't understand
<BadInternetCo> The docking ports are right together and they just wont dock
<soundnfury> maaan, after like 25 straight launches my H-1 engines have suddenly started failing
<soundnfury> first a spaceplane launch loses one of its boosters (but makes it to orbit anyway), then the launch of my space station core ends up in the sea because its single-H-1 first stage dies after 2 minutes
* soundnfury invokes the dread name of Agathorn -_-
<BadInternetCo> Wait
<Bornholio> bumper retracted?
<BadInternetCo> Oooooooh
<BadInternetCo> Well that explains everythinh
<BadInternetCo> Bornholio: do both sides have to have bumpers deployed?
<BadInternetCo> also, o/ soundnfury
<Bornholio> retracted. I've had problems with ven's ports in the past that nothing worked to fix
<BadInternetCo> Oh
<BadInternetCo> I had both retracted
<Bornholio> any parts close to the ports that are bumping?
<BadInternetCo> Nope
<BadInternetCo> Wait
<BadInternetCo> Testflight doesn't do anything to docking ports, does it?
<Starwaster> soundnfury should I be dreading that name? Explain
<Starwaster> awang if you enable lever arm compensation (caps lock) then it balances RCS for rotational purposes but not translational
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<Bornholio> Is it like docking is hard or something? I am super anal about using RCS build aid to get mine balanced to a gnats a...
<soundnfury> o/ BadInternetCo
<soundnfury> Starwaster: Agathorn wrote TestFlight, eater of souls and engines
<Starwaster> well why in hell are we invoking him then??? Let sleeping agathorn's lie
<soundnfury> I'm invoking him to make everyone else suffer as hard as I just did ;)
<BadInternetCo> Btw, has NK shown any signs of life recently?
<Starwaster> Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Agathorn KSC wgah'nagl fhtagn.
<soundnfury> BadInternetCo: haven't seen any sign of him for weeks :(
<Starwaster> badinternetco last time I saw him active in here was never ago
<Starwaster> just put a Kerbal through reentry just to listen to the new scream sounds
<Starwaster> well not really new
<BadInternetCo> Starwaster: sociopath in making :D
<Starwaster> :P
<Starwaster> bornholio some people have more troublet han others. Sometimes it's unbalanced RCS, sometimes it's Ven's parts. There's also an overshoot problem I think I introduced the last time I was poking at the docking system but I keep forgetting to go back and look at it
<Starwaster> btw who is responsible for the bulk of the RO radiator edits? Or is it multiple people?
<Bornholio> you are! .smirk
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<soundnfury> what I want to know is, how does one come up with a cost number for them so they can be in RP-0?
<Starwaster> dart board?
<Starwaster> with little scraps of paper with costs on them?
<soundnfury> Thomas: I have fear and panic now, thanks :)
<Starwaster> CHAPPIE HAS FEARS!
<Bornholio> I have a doubt.
<Bornholio> I don't, Mr. President."
<Starwaster> big baddaboom
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