<ProjectThoth>
Apparently they had trouble fitting it tightly to the sides of the workshop after it was delivered to the Cape, and they wound up going through a long tightening process (which consisted of a *lot* of bolt loosening and tightening again)
<Bornholio>
I'll take things you can only test at real launch time for 800 alex
<wb99999999>
so I read something about early solid motor history and saw something about drilling star-shaped channel in the grain being a new thing back then
<wb99999999>
did someone actually had to invent this design? I almost thought it came with modern solid motors by default
<Bornholio>
yup, becasue if you did it wrong, parts of the core shatter and sparkler out the end
<wb99999999>
does this have contribution on Soviet being behind on solid motors tech?
<wb99999999>
but yeah, this is what made solid motors powerful right?
<wb99999999>
it is many times more burn area than a motor that is burning from one end to another
<Bornholio>
actually its more linear thrust instead of constantly increasing
<Bornholio>
In my large candy rockets i put half dowels around my center round core to get that effect
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* Starwaster
is almost upon you now!
<Bornholio>
.eek
<wb99999999>
hmm, since many are here
<wb99999999>
I shall brought forth the problem I had with the new PEG/MJ
<wb99999999>
...
<wb99999999>
and I messed up the tense
<wb99999999>
you know I should go back to ESL maybe...
<wb99999999>
anyway, MJ seems to have problem recognizing side boosters since lamont upgraded to shuttle PEG 10
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<Starwaster>
wb99999999 what are you separating them with?
<Starwaster>
make sure it is a stock separator
<Wetmelon>
Holy crap
<Wetmelon>
I just tried the PEG module in MechJeb2 RSS
<Wetmelon>
Even though the 2nd stage of the Saturn V exploded randomly, it managed to recover and got me to a 221.3 x 219.9km orbit, when I requested a 220x220
<Wetmelon>
Very impressive
<wb99999999>
Starwaster I did try stock separator and non-stock ones
<wb99999999>
and I did rolled back to a non-PEG mechjeb, and it worked fine
<wb99999999>
then I switched back to PEG-MJ and it's not registering again
<Wetmelon>
wb99999999: lol I didn't even notice you were talking about PEG-MJ
<Wetmelon>
Bornholio: Ah you make rCandy motors? :)
<Wetmelon>
I started down that path, then decided I didn't really want to. Nearly blowing my hand off like an idiot had nothing to do with it, I swear >..
<Starwaster>
maybe lamont did work on the stage analysis code then too? I dunno...
<Starwaster>
wetmelon: remember, for many people, July 3rd is the last day they will have all ten fingers.
<Wetmelon>
Aww I just saw the Firefly engine in the parts list :(
<Wetmelon>
poor Firefly
<ProjectThoth>
Aerospikes seem to carry a curse.
<ProjectThoth>
ARCA, Firefly...
<ProjectThoth>
X-33..
<soundnfury>
in fairness, they aren't actually all that great unless you're trying to build SSTO
<soundnfury>
most of the backpressure losses on an atmo engine are just because the atmosphere is there, rather than because the bell's the wrong shape
<soundnfury>
so the only people who try to build them are (a) enthusiastic amateurs who don't really know what they're doing and (b) people trying to build SSTOs
<soundnfury>
both groups with a high proportion of failures _anyway_ ;)
<awang>
Hi Bornholio
<Wetmelon>
err
<Wetmelon>
curious
<Wetmelon>
my engines are generating 0 thrust, but are flowing fuel & oxidizer
<Wetmelon>
Lol now they're working, but with no sound and no plume >.>
<ProjectThoth>
soundnfury: ssto is bestssto
<Starwaster>
well shit. It said converged even on the launch pad so I thought... aw heck let's get rid of the initial pitch program.... what could go wrong?
<Starwaster>
Hilarity ensued
<Starwaster>
I'm thinking MJ should respect launch abort during ascent...
<wb99999999>
Starwaster
<wb99999999>
I tried many solid boosters in RO
<wb99999999>
anything smaller than a GEM 46 seems to have no problem
<wb99999999>
but as soon as I switch to say a Castor 120 or one of the 120 inch booster, it goes haywire
<Starwaster>
ah... I can MAKE it respect abort by editing action groups on the command pod
<Starwaster>
or rather I can initiate MJ actions such as toggle AP, keep vertical, orbit radial out, etc etc
<Starwaster>
wb99999999 is it not just SRB?
<wb99999999>
I haven't try any liquid strap-on that is large enough to verify this
<wb99999999>
I don't know what is the trigger, be it thrust, burntime or mass
<Starwaster>
experimenting with that now...
<Starwaster>
hey lamont what do the debug lines signify for PEG?
<wb99999999>
did you manage to recreate my initial problem?
<wb99999999>
I want to make sure this is not on me
<Starwaster>
no I have seen it but I thought it was an SSTU thing
<Starwaster>
which seemed to be reinforced by my switching to a different design using stock separators
<Starwaster>
except that the different design must have changed something else that was triggering it
<wb99999999>
just...try to build a large hydrolox core boosted by big solids
<wb99999999>
this was how my problem started
<wb99999999>
like Ariane 5 or Titan C or shuttle...
<Wetmelon>
wb99999999: just tried an Atlas V launch, and PEG NaN'd all over the place with a solid booster
<Wetmelon>
This is on the most recent MJ2-RSS build from Travis
<Starwaster>
except, be warned that something is killing stage stat analysis
<Starwaster>
typically on the early stages
<Starwaster>
like if you have the aforementioned LH2 core + large SRB boosters it... I'm not sure I think it's only seeing the stats of one sage or maybe lumping them together
<Starwaster>
or something
<Starwaster>
it doesnt seem to hurt PEG TOO much.... just make sure you have a good early pitch program settings.... say 0.5 deg/s for 130 seconds
<Wetmelon>
How much does his implementation differ from rss-dev?
<Wetmelon>
Looks like it's quite a bit newer
<ProjectThoth>
Well, it took four Saturn Vs, four Saturn IBs, and an Excel spreadsheet, but I think I'm finally ready for Duna. https://i.imgur.com/RINhEFF.png
<Starwaster>
wetmelon it is based more on the shuttle's guidance algorithms than earlier ones
<Wetmelon>
heh
<Starwaster>
projecthoth interesting
<Starwaster>
my grand Duna dreams still remain unrealized
<ProjectThoth>
Starwaster: I've been playing the game since 2012... I've been to Duna exactly once, and that was by accident.
<Starwaster>
oh I've been a bunch of times but my grand dreams were to establish a permanent orbital station there
<Starwaster>
I've been to Duna with... an airship in fact.. which wrecked on the slopes of some canyon
<Starwaster>
necessitating a rescue mission
<Starwaster>
and I sent another mission using... some parts pack I dont remember with a large lander that doubled as a base with a garage and the top could separate to put crew back in orbit
<Starwaster>
and I sent my guys back up into space.... and their nuclear propulsion service module was F***ING MISSING
<Starwaster>
because it didn't have a command core of its own so was classified as debris and I turned my debris setting DOWN to get rid of excess debris
<Starwaster>
oops.
<ProjectThoth>
whoops.meme
<Starwaster>
yeah pretty sure there's one of those in there somewhere
<ProjectThoth>
I'm slowly developing a bit of a debris problem in my save.
<Starwaster>
how about the epic facepalm that leaves a handprint in the terrain
<Starwaster>
I actually saw something whiz past my space station....
<Starwaster>
at visual range
<Wetmelon>
I have to say, this PEG is really impressive. I was wondering when people would start implementing these kinds of algorithms. I still remember trying to fix MJ's PID gains back in the day haha
<ProjectThoth>
Starwaster: Yeesh.
<Starwaster>
wetmelon I did a hack job on MJ's corrective steering that sort of had the same effect but it was never good enough to publish
<Wetmelon>
The original Corrective Steering algorithm never made any sense to me lol
<Starwaster>
if the upper stage TWR was just perfect then it would work ok but usually it would overthrust the final stage and leave the Ap too high
<Starwaster>
it doesn't to most people apparently unless you consider what it's actually meant to do
<Starwaster>
all it does is try to ensure that your designated flight path (as shown in the ascent path editor) is matched by your actual flight path
<Starwaster>
altitude too low or too high will make it kick in
<Wetmelon>
Right, but the actual algorithm as implemented in code in MJ didn't make sense lol
<Starwaster>
or if the angle is wrong it will kick in
<Starwaster>
I dunno why then, it pretty much does what it says
<ProjectThoth>
If I burn to depletion, the whole Duna stack has a delta-v of about 4.8 km/s, but a round trip is only 3.4 km/s.
<wb99999999>
ok I'm back
<ProjectThoth>
I'm debating just casting off the outboard stages after exiting Kerbin's gravity well.
<wb99999999>
any progress?
<Wetmelon>
wb99999999: just loaded KSP again after switching to PEG10
<wb99999999>
enjoy, the new one is really smooth except in my Ariane Mockup
<Starwaster>
projectthoth that's what some of the earlier manned Mars missions were meant to do... they would have boosters which would separate during TMI and stay in Earth orbit to be reused (the NTR boosters)
<ProjectThoth>
Starwaster: It's heavily inspired by IPP's Mars stack, I confess.
<Wetmelon>
Just had some wonkiness where it kept saying "waiting for liftoff" then "vertical ascent" over and over
<Wetmelon>
eventually figured itself out
<Wetmelon>
Into Stable PEG Guidance now
<Wetmelon>
omg Centaur
<Wetmelon>
700 second burn
<Starwaster>
wetmelon personal experience: be very careful with setting the PEG start after stage.... I couldnt figure out why PEG said converged but then wouldn't actually shift into stable PEG mode instead going to unguided gravity turn
<Starwaster>
turns out I mentally had reversed the meaning of the stage numbers.... thinking of them in IRL terms
<Starwaster>
even though I've had years and years to get used to KSP stage numbering schemes
<Wetmelon>
lol
<Wetmelon>
yeah they are backwards aren't they
<Wetmelon>
Heh it does say "Start PEG after KSP Stage #"
<Starwaster>
pff let me know when it's approaching 100 :P
<ProjectThoth>
Depends on how this mission goes. :P
<ProjectThoth>
Unfortunately, I kind of rushed building the expedition complex because I thought the first transfer opportunity was Y1 D185, turns out it's Y1 D231.
<ProjectThoth>
I also have to figure out how to crew shuffle, because the CSM is 1) not capable of being flown unmanned, and 2) can only hold 3.
<Wetmelon>
fak, I don't think I'm going to make orbit w/ this launch lol
<Wetmelon>
I must have screwed up the first stage trajectory b/c I'm already at 168km and falling, with 4 minutes to go on the burn
<Starwaster>
damn.... looking at that now... why didn't I make it so I could jettison those nose cones in orbit?
<Starwaster>
ammonia for NTR....
<Starwaster>
oh hell... I should try making one of my gimongous launch vehicles with its 10m boosters and see how PEG deals with that
<ProjectThoth>
Aw, Kethane.
<ProjectThoth>
Starwaster: Good lord, that's a piece of work.
<Wetmelon>
Do y'all know what "leading angle to plane" means in PEG
<ProjectThoth>
Decided on the "Skylab Rescue" solution, that should save me a launcher.
<Starwaster>
wetmelon not sure... it's filled in automatically though if you revert or reload MJ after completing an ascent
<Starwaster>
maybe soemthing to do with setting up rendezvous?
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<ProjectThoth>
Hmm, should I run my crew delivery flight now, or run some other test flight?
<ProjectThoth>
I've got 60 days until my injection opportunity.
<Starwaster>
what does Jeb want?
<ProjectThoth>
*shrug*
<ProjectThoth>
Problem is that I can't think of what to do with those 60 days, and it'd feel silly to just time warp ahead.
<Wetmelon>
hmm
<Wetmelon>
spacecraft isn't ending up in the correct orbit >.>
<Wetmelon>
PEG is getting close but like 100km off on periapse
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<soundnfury>
o/ BadRocketsCo
<BadRocketsCo>
howdy!
<BadRocketsCo>
how�re things?
<soundnfury>
not too bad
<soundnfury>
started playing wart hunder a couple days ago, may _possibly_ be addicted
<soundnfury>
you?
<UmbralRaptor>
!u �
<Qboid>
U+FFFD REPLACEMENT CHARACTER (�)
<soundnfury>
ah yes, the famed Tofu emoji (from the food section)
<BadRocketsCo>
soundnfury: ah, War Thunder is lovely, yes!
<soundnfury>
mission started, talk more later
<BadRocketsCo>
I can�t play it right now though because it keeps crashing at launch because I am forced to play on integrated graphics
<soundnfury>
it doesn't seem to mind my intergrated graphics ;)
<BadRocketsCo>
huh
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<soundnfury>
well, my Halifax got shot down
<soundnfury>
(nailed a base first, though :)
<soundnfury>
so what you been up to lately?
<BadRocketsCo>
soundnfury: finally got back to KSP
<BadRocketsCo>
Built a 1.5STO Saturn derivative
<soundnfury>
oh, cool!
<BadRocketsCo>
currently working on a resupply vehicle for my space station and I have a Mars lander and venus orbiter coming up
<BadRocketsCo>
So it is a pretty busy save, heh
<BadRocketsCo>
oh, and a jupiter flyby mission
<soundnfury>
nice. gotta love those gas giants
<BadRocketsCo>
yup, they are pretty
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<BadRocketsCo>
would be cool if I got a flyby of one of the moons aswell
<BadRocketsCo>
but I am not counting on that
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<BadRocketsCo>
woop woop, succesful docking of the resupply vehicle
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<wb99999999>
okay how do you do that tell thing to leave messages?
<ProjectThoth>
!tell [nickname] [message]
<Qboid>
ProjectThoth: I'll redirect this as soon as they are around.
<ProjectThoth>
whoops
<ProjectThoth>
wb99999999: ^
<wb99999999>
puff
<wb99999999>
yes
<wb99999999>
just wait
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<ProjectThoth>
nice
<[nickname]>
opps that doesn't work
<Qboid>
[nickname]: ProjectThoth left a message for you in #RO [27.12.2017 09:42:47]: "[message]"
<[nickname]>
oh yes
<[nickname]>
I am having a good laugh out of this
<ProjectThoth>
!tell wb99999999 [nickname]
<Qboid>
ProjectThoth: I'll redirect this as soon as they are around.
<[nickname]>
anyway, thanks
<ProjectThoth>
no worries!
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<ProjectThoth>
Anywhoo, Duna expedition tomorrow, hopefully. \o
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<wb99999999>
good luch
<Qboid>
wb99999999: ProjectThoth left a message for you in #RO [27.12.2017 09:43:53]: "[nickname]"
<wb99999999>
luck*
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<wb99999999>
!tell Starwaster I tried liquid booster and smaller solids: it all failed, MJ-PEG10 can't recognize side boosters correctly in my case
<Qboid>
wb99999999: I'll redirect this as soon as they are around.
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<soundnfury>
wow, snowing pretty hard outside
<Starwaster>
but the fire inside is so delightful?
<Qboid>
Starwaster: wb99999999 left a message for you in #RO [27.12.2017 10:22:31]: "I tried liquid booster and smaller solids: it all failed, MJ-PEG10 can't recognize side boosters correctly in my case"
<soundnfury>
don't have a fire
<soundnfury>
radiator's pretty delightful though
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<soundnfury>
'sup awang
<awang>
Not much
<awang>
You?
<soundnfury>
not much either
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<stewartx>
@lamont, how do i download the mechjeb peg fork from github?
<Starwaster>
ok what? I have... two tanks with fuel transfer lines feeding into a central tank. And from that central tank: fuel transfer lines OUT of it and into two more. So the transfer path should be FROM the first two tanks THROUGH the central tank and INTO the second two tanks. So the first two should drain COMPLETELY before the last two start draining
<Starwaster>
instead, all four tanks drain evenly. WHAT IN THE EFFING HELL.
<Starwaster>
HOW?
<Starwaster>
maybe it's not transferring through the central tank at all... that's got to be it.
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<Starwaster>
ok so I thought maybe it was because the center tank had none of the required resources in them so it couldn't transfer... but I added some and the outer tanks still drain at the same rate... :(
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<stewartx>
woo finally got my design to orbit and like a good boy, i'm disposing of my rubbbish https://i.imgur.com/k7GJvgh.jpg
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<wb99999999>
heya
<stewartx>
hulllo
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<Starwaster>
stewartx Boooo! BOOOOOO! Space is meant to be littered up!!! :P
<wb99999999>
oh hello
<ProjectThoth>
Great news! The Duna lander works.
<stewartx>
Starwaster: still plenty of opportunity for that.
<stewartx>
runds on hydrogen and oxygen... not oxygen and water :/
* stewartx
sheepish
<Bornholio>
Assuming TACLs and real fuel they should work fine with hydrolox on board, there is a pair of universal storage modules for said purpose, plus have extra water storage to take in the was water
<wb99999999>
also a good thing is TACLS don't demand you to do waste management
<wb99999999>
it assume you dump any waste overboard
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<wb99999999>
that is if you don't have room for it