<Bornholio>
lamont you poor long suffering dude, every time i see poor comments on sarbians mechjeb thread and then you swoop in and solve the problem.
<Bornholio>
also you have two logins :P
<lamont_>
lol, well its been pissing me off for ages, so i fixed it =)
<lamont_>
and yeah my computer back home is still logged in
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<wb99999999>
you based this on that NASA proposal right?
<ProjectThoth>
wb99999999: It's loosely based off of von Braun's 1969 proposal.
<ProjectThoth>
Same with Boeing's IMIS.
<ProjectThoth>
The specific design has its roots in a hypothetical crash Mars program that I conceived of, one that would have required commandeering Apollo right after Apollo 11.
<ProjectThoth>
Which is why the core of the vehicle is basically Skylab minus the ATM.
<wb99999999>
that's fairly crazy
<ProjectThoth>
I think I managed to sketch out one that works, let's see if I can put the pieces back together...
<ProjectThoth>
Apollo 12's Saturn V would have to be held in reserve, in case something went wrong with Apollo 11, but aside from that, there'd be 9 Saturn Vs available.
<ProjectThoth>
Which is more than enough to conduct a flight test of the NERVA stage, a reserve, and assemble the vehicle on-orbit.
<ProjectThoth>
I think I concluded that it would make more sense to develop a slightly uprated Saturn IB (by strapping Titan solids to it) than to waste a Saturn V on a flight test of the descent vehicle.
<wb99999999>
holy cow it actually worked
<wb99999999>
I just did something really crazy
<wb99999999>
and it worked
<wb99999999>
I basically stuck an Ariane 5 core on top of a Zenit 1st stage
<wb99999999>
and with a 20 ton payload it actually can take off
<ProjectThoth>
So, basically, SA-508 lofts a boilerplate NERVA stage, SA-509 lofts a live stage, SA-510 through SA-515 assemble the Mars ship, SA-206 launches a suborbital Mars excursion module, SA-207/SA-208 conduct a manned test of the MEM in LEO, and SA-209/SA-210 deliver the flight MEM and crew to the Mars vehicle.
<ProjectThoth>
wb99999999: Nice!
<wb99999999>
not sure about aero stability
<wb99999999>
trying to launch it now
<ProjectThoth>
Adopting FLEM as a landing mode would probably help make such a crash program possible, I should note.
<wb99999999>
true
<ProjectThoth>
But, hey, it's a fun thing to imagine.
<ProjectThoth>
I should get back into RO after I (maybe) bring the crew back from this flight.
<wb99999999>
good luck with that
<wb99999999>
the return trip should be easier
<ProjectThoth>
I have a margin of theoretically 90 m/s.
<ProjectThoth>
So it'll be an interesting rendezvous (because the crew doesn't have a means of directly returning to Kerbin), but, hey, as long as it's within the orbit of the Mun...
<wb99999999>
yep
<ProjectThoth>
I can't wait to investigate the stage-and-a-half I've had on the drawing board for the last week.
<ProjectThoth>
I gotta say, I like Hudson more than the Kistler guys, having interacted with both.
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<wb99999999>
the Iridium bubble
<wb99999999>
is that the period where there's a lot of expectation of more medium Earth orbit commsat?
<ProjectThoth>
wb99999999: Yup!
<ProjectThoth>
That's what Roton was originally intended for.
<wb99999999>
I am a little confused
<wb99999999>
at about the same time Boeing made Delta III, which is intended almost solely for GEO payload
<wb99999999>
and it too was left without a market
<ProjectThoth>
Delta III was eclipsed by the Delta IV project.
<ProjectThoth>
It's not that Delta III lacked a market, it's just that it was outclassed by a newer and better idea that offered greater flexibility and lower costs.
<wb99999999>
Delta IV turned out to be a lot more expensive than what was conceived...
<ProjectThoth>
Ah, but in the moment.
<wb99999999>
it's sad, I think it is one of the coolest modern LV
<wb99999999>
no pun intended
<ProjectThoth>
The early history of NewSpace, from Conestoga to SpaceShipOne, is really interesting.
<ProjectThoth>
We're basically in the second generation of commercial spaceflight, which is something people tend to forget.
<wb99999999>
that's right
<ProjectThoth>
And I don't think we're far off from the third generation.
<wb99999999>
I would mark the start of the 3rd gen when Blue Origin enter the market officially
<ProjectThoth>
Blue Origin seems to be the pinnacle of the second generation of commercial spaceflight. The smallsat market will probably remain an aspect of the second gen.
<ProjectThoth>
I think the third generation will begin with SSTOs.
<wb99999999>
I really like the design of the New Glenn
<wb99999999>
it looks much beefier than the trimmed stick that is the Falcon 9
<ProjectThoth>
New Glenn is the first rocket designed from the outset to be a reusable rocket, if that makes any sense.
<ProjectThoth>
(and, yeah, I'm obsessed with SSTOs)
<wb99999999>
I like SSTOs
<wb99999999>
but I don't think conventional chemical rocket is up to the task
<wb99999999>
my bet was to wait for controlled fusion to happen
<ProjectThoth>
Oh, I think we have the technology to do it right now.
<wb99999999>
and have a big fusion powered thermal...thing
<wb99999999>
yes, but barely
<ProjectThoth>
But as much as I'm a student of Hudson, I'm also a student of Bono.
<ProjectThoth>
Drop tanks are a key concept here.
<wb99999999>
the Star Clipper
<ProjectThoth>
Eugh.
<ProjectThoth>
Oh, wait, not eugh!]
<ProjectThoth>
Sorry, got my vehicles mixed up.
<ProjectThoth>
The thing I'm currently investigating is a 1.5STO, ironically.
<wb99999999>
my bet is on techs a bit further into the future
<ProjectThoth>
My back of the napkin numbers imply that you could get about 5 tons into LEO with a 500-ton launcher (about the size of Falcon 9's first stage).
<wb99999999>
the hard part is to bring it back
<ProjectThoth>
Bring it in sideways, rotate for a landing flip.
<wb99999999>
I am worried about mechanical stress
<wb99999999>
see you can't build is strong enough if you want the fuel fraction you need
<ProjectThoth>
That's where the drop tanks come in.
<ProjectThoth>
wb99999999: Ever heard of Saturn VB/S-ID?
<wb99999999>
what is the benefit of this design over a Falcon/New Glenn Style fly back booster?
<wb99999999>
I mean I do understand you can bring back all the engines and electronics
<wb99999999>
but the complexity and manufacturing cost seems to be tailing the benefit closely
<wb99999999>
man I really do like the Star Clipper
<wb99999999>
the extending lifting surface, the jet engines for landing
<wb99999999>
it's so...60s
<ProjectThoth>
wb99999999: I firmly believe that full reuse is insanely expensive to develop.
<ProjectThoth>
So it's kinda like a halfway road between SMART and full reuse - theoretically could put off full reuse for a few years as flight rates ramp up.
<ProjectThoth>
Plus, Rule of Cool.
<ProjectThoth>
And Star Clipper is one wicked design.
<wb99999999>
man did you see those video of space shuttle launches viewed from an airplane?
<ProjectThoth>
I think so.
<wb99999999>
it never gets old
<wb99999999>
it's one thing seeing a launch from tracking camera of the launch site
<wb99999999>
but seeing a small red dot piercing the cloud and the smoke trail arc through the sky
<ProjectThoth>
See, this is why I want to sell rockets...
<wb99999999>
well...I am an overly emotional person, tbh
<ProjectThoth>
wb99999999: I think we're all capable of waxing poetic once in a while, and it's for a very emotional reason that I even want to get involved in the industry.
<ProjectThoth>
Because it's fucking awesome.
<wb99999999>
I do agree it should happen so that ordinary men and women can go to space, and have the chance to see the human race as a whole
<wb99999999>
this is very darn important, after seeing so much hostility and hatred within it...
<ProjectThoth>
I just don't feel like sitting around and watching history happen, because that's terribly boring.
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<BadRocketsCo>
Halloo!
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