<NathanKell>
(Ideally it should force something like *half* a relaunch...)
<NathanKell>
Bornholio: Grabbed!
<soundnfury>
yes, yes it should
<SpecimenSpiff>
is that a replacement for the remotetech dll and should be renamed? or is there an actual cc_remotetech.dll hiding somewhere that I dont see?
<Bornholio>
in cc
<soundnfury>
I would be very much in favour of some in-between-costing 'recycle on pad'
<Bornholio>
ah wait
<NathanKell>
Could write a TF thing to pay money on the pad to fix failures?
<NathanKell>
but it should take *time* too...
<NathanKell>
hmm
<Bornholio>
yeeah in G:\SteamLibrary\steamapps\common\KSP 1.3.1 RORP0\GameData\ContractConfigurator
<SpecimenSpiff>
there have certainly been real isntances of an ignition failure leading to a replacement of engine and delayed launch
<SpecimenSpiff>
I seem to remember reading about a thor or atlas launch in the l2 forums that was "quick, bring out a new valve while the window is open"
<SpecimenSpiff>
Bornholio, I don't have a dll there to begin with.. is this for the remotetech specific contracts mod?
<Bornholio>
yes
<NathanKell>
SpecimenSpiff you should have such a dll
<SpecimenSpiff>
ok, I wasnt sure those were rp-0 supported
<NathanKell>
CC itself comes with it
<SpecimenSpiff>
ah, I was looking for a plugins directory under cc
<Bornholio>
right now cc is throwning an exception on load and failing out 5 contracts
<SpecimenSpiff>
but its just in the root cc directory
<Bornholio>
those ones that need RT coverage information specifically
<lamont>
i should definitely make sure that MJ’s autostaging release of launch clamps code requires SLT > 1.01 before they pop. ideally require all engines to be nominal.
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<taniwha>
lamont: or at least sufficiently balanced such that gimballing can maintain control
<lamont>
well i think anything less than perfectly optimal and the user should have to manually hit spacebar to stage
<taniwha>
ah, yes, that's a good solution
<lamont>
so how did twitch send me a desktop notification when i didn’t have any twitch windows open? that seems like some black magic fuckery…
<Bornholio>
or chrome
<taniwha>
lamont: twitch worked its way into an in-browser RSS feed?
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<SpecimenSpiff>
Anyone have a clue what's causing this error? It's basically constant for the whole flight...https://imgur.com/a/QwzlA
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<Bornholio>
good night, spiff post a output_log.txt
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<lamont>
so what is Planetarium.rotation and can i take a velocity vector in one frame and multiply it by that and get the velocity vector in the new frame?
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<SpecimenSpiff>
Confirmed, that error spam was from the enginelighting mod
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<xShadowx|2>
damnit NK left ksp long enough for me to lose interest in twitch and lose auto login + forget my login XD
<xShadowx|2>
p.s. get principia :P
<lamont>
lastpass / 1password
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<Garlik>
NK, I'dd like to help how I can to push towards release, I have some simple coding knowledge
<Garlik>
any simple task you think I could help on #812 ?
<Garlik>
thinking Venus parts, but I dont know what logic you imagine behind it, how to balance correctly those parts costs/weight to make them VenusAble
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<NathanKell>
Garlik: Awesome!
<NathanKell>
Garlik: I think Venus parts we maybe should hold off on--for now, we can just stick with allowing all parts
<NathanKell>
Simple stuff that we really should do ASAP though...how about going through the probe cores and setting out which should and should not have what levels of KerbNet?
<NathanKell>
i.e. sputnik probably shouldn't have terrain mapping :D
<Garlik>
sorry, un-familiar with KerbNet, will look into it sure
<NathanKell>
was added in stock KSP in 1.2.2
<NathanKell>
it's basically a mini stock scansat, only it just shows within a cone and per click, not the whole world map
<Garlik>
oh ok, yes, just saw, used for stock ISRU I remember now
<Garlik>
what uses does it have though? exept for the little map view?
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<NathanKell>
It's just a map view, but having a biome view can be useful when zoomed out sufficiently
<NathanKell>
so you know where to aim
<NathanKell>
it's still not something that Sputnik PS-1 should have :D
<Vader111>
!tell SpecimenSpiff* that error is a engine lighting issue
<Qboid>
Vader111: I'll redirect this as soon as they are around.
<SpecimenSpiff>
yep Vader111, I figured that out
<Qboid>
SpecimenSpiff: Vader111 left a message for you in #RO [31.01.2018 07:49:51]: "that error is a engine lighting issue"
<SpecimenSpiff>
surprised it didnt just ping me direct, I'm here...
<Vader111>
oh ok no worrys
<Vader111>
you can fix it its just a modulemanager patch issue
<NathanKell>
night all!
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<Vader111>
night
<Vader111>
change Module*Decouple* to ModuleDecoupler*
<Vader111>
in the decoupler-configs.cfg file
<SpecimenSpiff>
Cool, thanks
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<awang>
Some on the slightly overexposed side though :P
<awang>
Oh, got a long exposure in there?
<taniwha>
yeah, 50s
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<taniwha>
most of the red-moon shots were 8s
<taniwha>
and the overexposed shots were me figuring out what settings to use
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<awang>
taniwha: Fair enough, I've had my fair share of overexposed shots when figuring out settings
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<Mike`>
lamont, i have some trouble with peg12 :/ When i launch to my current inclination, i'd expect it to launch east, what classical does and i think old peg did aswell. However, peg12 launches towards 120°, and during the burn, it changes this slowly towards 0° to compensate, up to 63° - this achieves correct inclination in the end but is very inefficient due to steering losses :(
<Qboid>
Mike`: NathanKell left a message for you in #RO [31.01.2018 02:44:42]: "slowdown culprits are almost certainly TF and RT, in that order."
<awang>
....I should really take a look at TF after I finish the KRASH modifications
<Mike`>
why? :)
<awang>
Performance
<awang>
Apparently it's been an issue for a while
<Mike`>
well, TF worked fine, i think, for my 8 engine-aerobee-stage
<Mike`>
and my currently abysmal performance is apparently totally unrelated to TF, i removed it and it changed nothing
<awang>
!tell NathanKell* how many engines does it take for TF to become an issue?
<Qboid>
awang: I'll redirect this as soon as they are around.
<awang>
Ah, ok
<Mike`>
so, do you actually know TF is the culprit for you, or is that just a guess?
<awang>
I just know other people have complained about it on here
<awang>
I haven't used engine clusters in my playthrough yet
<Mike`>
yeah...we should check that it's really an issue
<awang>
Or at least nothing beyond the 5 Aerobee stage
<awang>
Guessing you don't have anything complex going on with RT?
<Mike`>
but if our games run terribly slow without TF being an issue though, that complicates matters somewhat
<Mike`>
not really, i think
<Mike`>
it seemjs to be parts related
<Mike`>
once i stage my lower stage away, performance gets much better
<Mike`>
:|
<awang>
Hmmm
<awang>
First stage isn't horribly complicated?
<awang>
And is it as soon as you stage or only when the first stage falls a few km away?
<Mike`>
part-count-related, or something - no, it isn't really. Good question, i should find that out.
<xShadowx|2>
i dont know how much Ag changed his code since last time i went through it, but at the time yes used its share of cpu
<Mike`>
first stage is 2 LR79, a tank, boattail etc...notzhing complicated.
<xShadowx|2>
whether or not enough to slow you / cause your problem, no clue ;p
<Mike`>
should probably do some sandbox testing and remove some more mods
<Mike`>
like principia just to make sure, and maybe bluedog db because it contains a ton of parts. :)
<awang>
Mike`: I've found that I didn't really have any issues with Principia until I had a few satellites in orbit
<Vader111>
for the lols
<awang>
And then the problems were mostly during timewarp
<awang>
I'm at work, so idk what the video is actually about
<awang>
Loaded the page, saw a green screen and a guy, thought "that isn't something I should have on my screen", and closed it
<Mike`>
awang, i do have 6 - doesnt sound too much, and it seems removing them doesn't really help
<awang>
Mike`: Principia probably won't become an issue until high timewarps
<Mike`>
i'll try again though
<Vader111>
its Shia LaBeouf's Motivational Rant
<Mike`>
yep, that's what i hope/seem to experience
<awang>
Mike`: And in theory, part packs shouldn't affect performance
<awang>
Since performance is based on what's currently on your rocket
<awang>
Unless the part uses something that is expensive graphically
<awang>
Like I get a framerate dip when using RaiderNick's AJ-10-Early
<awang>
I think because it's shiny
<Mike`>
yep. so i thought. might take some memory, but even that shouldn't be it because performance is bad right after the start of the game
<awang>
Is performance bad in all scenes, or just flight?
<awang>
Like I can get ~60 fps in the editor, as long as the ground crew is turned off
<Mike`>
flight, even before launch
<awang>
Flight it's more like 10
<awang>
Right, pre-launch is still the flight scene
<Mike`>
havent really checked the editor
<Mike`>
how do you see your FPS, the performance tab? it kinda constantly shows 25 only
<awang>
I used a mod
<Mike`>
k
<awang>
KerboKatz frame rate viewer or something
<Mike`>
good point though, i should duplicate that rocket and use stock engines to compare
<Mike`>
see if that makes a diff
<awang>
You said you only get performance issues with more complex rockets?
<Mike`>
its worse with larger rockets yes
<Mike`>
but right now im checking an sstu rocket with just 17 parts and even here performance is...somewhat bad, not as bad as that 70 part rocket though
<awang>
Hmmm
<Mike`>
yep, performance is fine in editor. I suspect that rssve/scatterer etc are a big part of the problem and performance gets better once im out of the atmosphere/in space, but gonna test that
<Mike`>
yep, same rocket in space and the game kinda runs realtime, almost all solid green
<awang>
Oh nice
<awang>
Doing much better than me :P
<awang>
So part interactions doesn't seem to be the issue, since you have similar interactions in space as you do in-atmo
<awang>
Atmospheric interactions are in-atmo only, obviously, so those could be a source of performance weirdness
<awang>
idk how RSSVE/EVE/scatterer change when going from in-atmo to out, but if they turn off some things when leaving the atmosphere that could play into it too
<Mike`>
yep, maybe i should try removing far and see if that affects things aswell
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<Mike`>
gonna test latest rssve from github etc
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<awang>
Oh, didn't realize RSSVE has new commits
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<Mike`>
yep, just saw those, dx11 fix is no longer needed etc
<awang>
Never knew there was a DirectX fix required
<awang>
(I'm on macOS)
<Mike`>
:) i think it applies to opengl aswell, without it you got featureless spheres
<Mike`>
scatterer was updated recently aswell
<Mike`>
2-3 weeks
<Mike`>
performance is a bit better now it seems, but i also removed FAR :D gotta add that back and see
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<maxsimal_home>
!tell NathanKell looked into that problem with your SR contract progress getting wiped. I don't see how it happened unless there was a data store problem. I think maybe what happened was it got reset when you hit another altitude record - might be worth someone double checking the altitude record contract
<Qboid>
maxsimal_home: I'll redirect this as soon as they are around.
<lamont>
(your link goes to a live stream from Dec for some reason)
<Probus>
That's weird...
<CommandoDiamond>
Yeah it links to CRS-13 for some reason
<Starwaster>
holy shit, for the first time ever I've been hit by the duplicate physics globals bug and I can't blame CKAN
<awang>
Starwaster: Duplicate physics globals?
<Starwaster>
I should not say duplicate because they are NOT duplicate
<Starwaster>
two SETS of physics globals and only one can apply
<Starwaster>
imagine that you are playing RO but using stock physics globals
<Starwaster>
deadly reentry? HAH! How about Deadly ASCENT
<Starwaster>
I was about to blame Sigma rescale because I'm giving it a try for the first time
<Starwaster>
pretty sure it's not sigma
<Starwaster>
got a feeling I know what it is this time... maybe
<Starwaster>
HAH! GOTCHA
<Starwaster>
CAUGHT YOU REDHANDED IN THE FSCKING ACT YOU BASTARD
<Starwaster>
Module Manager
<Starwaster>
multiple copies of MM are not supposed to run concurrently because only the most recent version is supposed to run. The other ones are supposed to shut DOWN
<awang>
Oh
<awang>
How did two sets of physics globals get applied?
<awang>
Blame blowfish for MM problems?
<Starwaster>
not sure what the mechanics of that bug are yet
<Starwaster>
no, this predates blowfish
<awang>
Oh
<awang>
It's been around that long?
<awang>
Wow
<Starwaster>
see, it never ever used to be POSSIBLE to have multiple copies of MM because it always had the same name
<Starwaster>
some people pushed to allow for multiple versions be present (and actually have functionality where a mod could have its own MM version) and that idea sort of died but not really because we have the version number appended and an election system where only the most recent runs
<Starwaster>
and older versions shut down
<Starwaster>
this is the sort of thing I warned about years ago
<Starwaster>
I need to go back over some old cases and see if I still have their log files around to check if those people had multiple MM copies
<awang>
That sounds... painful
<awang>
Why would multiple versions being present be a good thing?
<awang>
It's asking for DLL hell
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<Mike`>
lamont, i have some trouble with peg12 :/ When i launch to my current inclination, i'd expect it to launch east, what classical does and i think old peg did aswell. However, peg12 launches towards 120°, and during the burn, it changes this slowly towards 0° to compensate, up to towards 63° in my example - this achieves correct inclination in the end but is very inefficient due to steering losses :(
<lamont>
uhm
<lamont>
stage and a half atlas or something odd like that?
<lamont>
at any rate it smells like you might need to enter a manual launch azimuth
<lamont>
but i’d need to see a pic of what your rocket looks like on the pad (with peg running)
<Mike`>
okay, no, 3 stage rocket, 2 lr79 first stage, 1 lr105 second, 2 aj10 3rd (and a 4th for TLI but that's not needed for orbit)
<Mike`>
gonna make a pic
<Starwaster>
awang aside from what I mentioned earlier, part of the rationale is that it prevents newer versions from being overwritten by older ones.... which I can definitely understand but this current system has never really worked right and often leads to support issues where people have to be told to delete older copies of MM
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<Mike`>
lamont, ah, it seems it only does this when i have set the moon as target. Seems it automatically cares for a target when there's one set?
<lamont>
odd
<lamont>
it shouldn’t
<lamont>
oh maybe it does
<lamont>
oh and then if you don’t launch to plane of target and do a timed launch the plane orientation may be stupidly wonky
<lamont>
ahhh yeah, i bet that’s a bug
<Mike`>
timed launch? and want me to do anything more/provide more info? :)
<lamont>
yeah pretty sure if you’ve got any target set that i try to match the plane, i figured that mechjeb’s targetting controller being set meant you’d hit launch to plane, but i bet if you select it manually it does that as well
<lamont>
no, i think i got it
<awang>
Isn't that the free LAN thing?
<lamont>
no its the opposite
<awang>
Because I remember getting weird behavior when targeting the Moon
<awang>
vs an untimed launch
<lamont>
if you have the moon manually selected it is always launching to plane, even if you don’t press ‘launch to plane’
<lamont>
yeah i took out free lan entirely
<lamont>
“leading angle to plane” is always important now
<awang>
So what I'd end up doing was target something for a timed launch, then untarget shortly before ignition
<awang>
Starwaster: Ah, I see
<awang>
Hmmm
<lamont>
yeah i need to get a real trajectory optimizer running and then i can just figure out what number to put in leading angle to plane to make it work right
<awang>
Sort of like libsomething.3.5.2.dylib on my machine, I guess?
<awang>
Except I got symlinks to the right version
<awang>
And symlinks on NTFS are not fun
<lamont>
oh you probably were testing on busted thrust integrals as well back then
<lamont>
like just stupidly mathematically broken implementation
<awang>
lamont: I feel like we're recreating Orbiter here :P
<lamont>
ideally i go way beyond that
<lamont>
there’s better algorithms than PEG now
<CommandoDiamond>
Anybody else see the Govsat 1 launch?
<lamont>
goddamn it i missed it
<lamont>
yoiutube was paused in the background
<awang>
lamont: Like the algorithm that was supposed to be used for Ares?
<lamont>
no
<lamont>
full blown CoV based TPBVP solver
<CommandoDiamond>
Sad!
<CommandoDiamond>
It was a really good launch, clear skies.
<awang>
lamont: That sounds... painful
<awang>
And sounds like it'd have interesting performance characteristics
<lamont>
there are many approaches though
<lamont>
the thing is the big expense is how you do the fowards shooting and if its analytical or numerical integration
<lamont>
and there are better analytical approximations to thrust arcs now than what PEG uses, that could handle the curvature of kerbin better even
<lamont>
and multiple shooting / numerical jacobian / modified gauss-newton with analytical thrust and coast arcs should be broadly equivalent to PEG in terms of performance
<lamont>
(slower, but not horribly, particularly not after the solution has converted and is fed into the next cycle)
<lamont>
and then to bring out the big guns, analytical jacobians would be very fast
<lamont>
and intiial solutions could be done using numerical ODEs and model it fully with no approximations and then you press a button and it takes a minute or two to spit out a fully optimal trajectory and then the faster analytical routines could take that solution and use it for closed-loop guidance
<awang>
"minute or two" might be a bit much for some forumites
<awang>
I can see the complaints already
<awang>
"Why is MJ soo slow"
<Mike`>
can you explain in a few words what leading angle to plane means? :)
<Probus>
What is the mod that makes you follow the rules when transferring crew?
<Probus>
connected living space. Dang I could not remember
<awang>
Mike`: It's how many degrees ahead of the plane you want to launch
<awang>
Say you want to enter a 90 degree polar orbit with the ascending node at 80 degrees longitude
<awang>
Leading angle of 1 means you'll launch when the launch sites passes through 79 degrees longitude
<awang>
I think
<Mike`>
ah okay, thanks awang, good to know. :)
<awang>
Mike`: It's pretty important for polar launches, since apparently a leading angle of 0 causes quite a bit of steering losses
<awang>
While leading by a degree or two is fine
<awang>
Leading angle isn't as important for east launches
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<awang>
lamont: ^ That's right, right?
<lamont>
correct
<awang>
:D
<lamont>
i wasy playing with launches to 25 inc and -10 actually looked reasonable to my eyes
<lamont>
i at least want to get proper trajectory optimization in matlab so i can figure out what the ‘right’ answer is there
<awang>
-10 is leading angle?
<lamont>
and i think we could do some kind of “sacrificing cpu cycles to the trajectory optimizer . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . “ modal dialog that would pop up and as long as it only took a second-ish and gave reliable results i think people would deal with it
<lamont>
yeah
<awang>
Wait, you have to use negative numbers to launch before crossing the plane?
<lamont>
maybe?
<awang>
Positive numbers will wait until after?
<lamont>
yeah, this is why i want a real trajectory optimizer, because negative numbers for lower inclinations “looked good to my eyes”
<lamont>
f if i know though
<Mike`>
in that case shouldn't it be called trailing angle? but sounds interesting, i should check that out
<lamont>
for polar orbits i’m certain a +1 or +2 should go in there so that you’re going to launch slightly west of north/south by 5-ish degrees
<Mike`>
ah
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<lamont>
any more than that you wind up launching eastwards a bit which makes no sense since you’re not cancelling coriolis velocity at start then, and 0 overburns to the west trying to get back to the initial launch site plane and is obviously geometrically wrong
<Mike`>
yeah, makes sense
<CommandoDiamond>
How do you disable remotetech? I'm trying to test a lancher
<lamont>
turning on infinite fuel hack i think is a hack to let you manually extend an antenna or something
<lamont>
other than that i think its back at the space center menu?
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