NathanKell changed the topic of #RO to: Welcome to the discussion channel for the Realism Overhaul (meta)mod for KSP! Realism Overhaul Main Thread https://goo.gl/wH7Dzb ! RO Spreadsheet http://goo.gl/Oem3g0 ! Code of Conduct http://goo.gl/wOSv2M ! | [15:01] <soundnfury> Straight Eight Stronk (and) RP-0/1 is basically "Space Agency Spreadsheet Simulator" with a rocket-flying minigame
Starman4308 has quit [Ping timeout: 180 seconds]
awang_ has quit [Ping timeout: 207 seconds]
awang has joined #RO
Hypergolic_Skunk has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity]
Starman4308 has joined #RO
qwertyy_ has joined #RO
qwertyy has quit [Ping timeout: 383 seconds]
<Starman4308> I'm discovering that a simple EEJ trajectory isn't actually all that simple, and that NASA makes this stuff look easy.
<Starman4308> My first attempt at this, I went for almost exactly 2 years' period to re-encounter Earth at almost exactly the same place. That's... not how EEJ slingshots work.
<Pap> Starman4308: There is a reason they didn't do them until they had some pretty powerful modern computers, there is a LOT of maths involved
<Starman4308> Anyways, looking at Juno's path, looks like it went for an Earth escape that was slightly radial-in, with aphelion slightly more than 1 year in the future. A deep-space maneuver then reduced perihelion, and it re-encountered Earth about 2 years 2 months after launch.
<Starman4308> Hopefully that gives more favorable slingshot geometry.
Starman4308 has quit [Ping timeout: 180 seconds]
ProjectThoth has joined #RO
<taniwha> Pap: I can vouch for the math :/
<taniwha> (and that's for 2-body. N-body is just nuts)
<Pap> I can't vouch for the math. It is so far beyond what I can understand, that I cannot even fathom how it all works
Mike` has quit [Ping timeout: 207 seconds]
Mike` has joined #RO
<taniwha> thus why I was pulling my hair out in 2016 :)
blowfish has joined #RO
<blowfish> evening
<blowfish> would someone mind explaing this whole spreadsheet thing to me?
<blowfish> more broadly, if I want to configure something for RP-0 or tweak an existing configuration, what's the process?
ProjectThoth has quit [Ping timeout: 182 seconds]
ProjectThoth has joined #RO
ProjectThoth has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
probus_ has joined #RO
Probus has quit [Ping timeout: 198 seconds]
blowfish has quit [Quit: Leaving]
Probus has joined #RO
probus_ has quit [Ping timeout: 198 seconds]
BadRocketsCo has joined #RO
<BadRocketsCo> Howdy
Shoe17 has joined #RO
leudaimon has quit [Ping timeout: 383 seconds]
aradapilot has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
aradapilot has joined #RO
leudaimon has joined #RO
BadRocketsCo has quit [Quit: Bye]
qwertyy has joined #RO
qwertyy_ has quit [Ping timeout: 186 seconds]
Starwaster has joined #RO
<Maxsimal> Huh, did you guys know the logs for this room are available? For the last year at least
BadRocketsCo has joined #RO
BadRocketsCo has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
probus_ has joined #RO
Probus has quit [Ping timeout: 383 seconds]
Shoe17 has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity]
Hypergolic_Skunk has joined #RO
probus_ has quit [Ping timeout: 182 seconds]
ferram4_ has joined #RO
ferram4 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
Shoe17 has joined #RO
qwertyy_ has joined #RO
qwertyy has quit [Ping timeout: 383 seconds]
ferram4_ has quit [Read error: -0x1: UNKNOWN ERROR CODE (0001)]
ferram4 has joined #RO
awang has quit [Ping timeout: 207 seconds]
ferram4 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
ferram4 has joined #RO
Starman4308 has joined #RO
awang has joined #RO
ferram4 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
ferram4 has joined #RO
awang has quit [Ping timeout: 207 seconds]
<Starman4308> Hooray for NASA doing all the hard math ahead of time and for media publicizing the results: I think I have my EEJ trajectory by cribbing additional details from the Juno mission.
<Maxsimal> If you really want to borrow NASA's stuff... https://opensource.gsfc.nasa.gov/projects/emtg/index.php
awang has joined #RO
<awang> !tell blowfish Basically if you want to change things in RP-0 related to the tech tree or unlocks, it goes into Pap's spreadsheet
<Qboid> awang: I'll redirect this as soon as they are around.
<awang> !!tell blowfish I think
<awang> !tell blowfish I think
<Qboid> awang: I'll redirect this as soon as they are around.
Starman4308 has quit [Ping timeout: 180 seconds]
egg|work|egg has quit [Ping timeout: 180 seconds]
Senshi has joined #RO
schnobs has joined #RO
<schnobs> o/
<Qboid> schnobs: awang_ left a message for you in #RO [27.02.2018 20:35:30]: "That definitely sounds like a bug. Sounds like whatever event is needed to get KRASH to realize that the sim is over didn't fire, so TF is still disabled, I think."
<Qboid> schnobs: awang_ left a message for you in #RO [27.02.2018 20:38:12]: "I want to say it's not my fault, since none of my changes were to code that governs how sims start/end"
<Qboid> schnobs: awang_ left a message for you in #RO [27.02.2018 20:39:16]: "Did you quit KSP normally, or did it crash (pun totally intended)? Or did you try to start a simulation, but then KRASH/KCT refused due to a missing part or something, then you had to buy that part and try again?"
<Qboid> schnobs: awang_ left a message for you in #RO [27.02.2018 20:40:05]: "Not that those are the causes, but I've experienced some odd behavior in the past related to those. One of KRASH's advantages was that it's supposed to roll back state when the sim ends regardless of how the sim ends, so if it isn't doing that I'm a bit concerned"
<schnobs> !tell foo bar
<Qboid> schnobs: I'll redirect this as soon as they are around.
<schnobs> !tell awang I wanted to start a sim, had KRASH complain about a missing part, bought it, started sim.
<Qboid> schnobs: I'll redirect this as soon as they are around.
<schnobs> !tell awang ...and that's all there ist to it.
<Qboid> schnobs: I'll redirect this as soon as they are around.
<schnobs> !tell awang apparently KRASH applies it's settings first, then checks the vessel. If the actual SIM doesn't run, KRASH settings are not reverted.
<Qboid> schnobs: I'll redirect this as soon as they are around.
<schnobs> !tell awang I appended an existing KRASH issue.
<Qboid> schnobs: I'll redirect this as soon as they are around.
Shoe17 has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity]
<awang> schnobs: Yeah, that sounds like something I ran into earlier
<awang> KRASH has checks that should disable the launch button if you have parts on your ship that you haven't purchased, but it doesn't seem to be working for whatever reason
<awang> So I think it gets confused as to its state, since you started the simulation, but didn't start the simulation
<awang> Then you start it again, this time for real, and I have no clue how it reacts
<schnobs> Well, it seems to do things in the wrong order. Apply sim settings first, then check if the sim can even run.
<schnobs> Incidentally, this thouches on something I mentioned in my latest issue / rant:
<schnobs> Saveloading has become part fo the core gameplay. In VAB I unlock / pruchase / tools lots of stuff, then once I've settled on a design, I reload and try to buy only teh stuff I need.
<schnobs> There no aid...
<schnobs> Well, tooling works, and unavailable parts don't matter to KCT, I can assemble them all the same.
<awang> schnobs: I mean, the code at least tries to check whether the simulation can be started before enabling the launch button in the first place
<schnobs> It's the sim where it blows up in my face.
<awang> Looks like it's broken, though
<awang> Hey, the tooling compensation in KRASH helps :P
<awang> But yeah, I've run into the same issue, especially with engines
<schnobs> yeah, that too.
<awang> I don't know whether an engine will do the job, but it's a few hundred thousand funds to purchase
<awang> I'd like it better if a "rough" approximation were available early, which has approximate-ish stats
<awang> And if you think it'll work, then you actually purchase the things
<awang> idk how difficult that would be to implement though
<schnobs> The "not knowing" part isn't that bad, certainly not once you've progressed a little.
<schnobs> Once you settled on an engine family, you quickly learn that skipping individual models doesn't save much money.
<awang> I was more thinking about thinking about purchasing engine families in the first place
<schnobs> Can't happen before you have proper families, ofc, but once you're there, you can just buy every single one of them.
<awang> Things like deciding between the LR-somethings vs RD-somethings in early-ish game
<schnobs> Well. Saveloading. It's not bad in itself, just not supported very well.
<schnobs> My main gripe is that engine types are silently reset to the next best thing you've already got.
<awang> What would your preferred behavior be?
<awang> Fixing that might be trivial-ish
<schnobs> "Sounding Rocket II" was built with an XASR? You better remember it, because if you don't we will just hand you a rocket with a not entirely suitable fuel mixture.
<schnobs> Pop-up, or an entry in the same menu that offers tooling and avionics.
<schnobs> "vessel was originally saved with engine type X".
<awang> mmm
<schnobs> Might get cumbersome on large rockets with many engines.
<awang> idk how KSP would deal with actually loading a vessel into the editor if the config is not available
<awang> Pop-up might be doable
<schnobs> Or just stick to the type, and perform an avilability check before rollout.
<awang> Well, that depends on whether you see being able to build things in KCT before purchasing them is intended
<schnobs> KSP happily loads vessels with unavailble parts. If they're unresearched, you get a notice in the loading menu.
<schnobs> If they're researched but not paid... not so much.
<awang> Hm
<schnobs> And RF engine types are an entirely different beast.
<schnobs> Behavior is there because of stock part tests.
<Maxsimal> Does anyone know CC well? I posted an issue I'm having in the CC forum, but I don't think nightingale is replying in there anymore. https://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/index.php?/topic/91625-131-contract-configurator-v1233-2017-10-05/&do=findComment&comment=3307028
<schnobs> Where you may be given an not-yet reserached part to test; after the test, part becomes unavailable again.
<schnobs> But you can still load the vessel and remove the offending part.
<awang> Ah
<awang> That makes sense
<awang> Forgot part testing was a thing
<awang> idk how it interacts with configs, though
<awang> Since I don't think stock parts have configs?
<awang> Hopefully it isn't based only on parts
<schnobs> AFAIK the editor doesn't care about avilabe. It will balk if a part is not in the game (eg removed mod), but otherwise there should be nothing to prevent you from loading a Saturn V in 1950.
<schnobs> Stock mechanisms would prevent your from launch, but not from loading it in VAB.
leudaimon has quit [Ping timeout: 182 seconds]
<awang> Hm
Shoe17 has joined #RO
<schnobs> Ofc, RF has it's own way of handling engine configs. Possibly for a reason.
<awang> schnobs: Yeah, I think I see the part where it switches your configs on load
leudaimon has joined #RO
<awang> I'll upload it to Dropbox after VS finishes crashing
<Starwaster> ok so I figured by lowering all the docking port torque and acquire forces to 0.0001 or so it would make docking more manageable but instead it makes it even MORE wobbly... how is that even possible?
<schnobs> Starwaster: what kind of docking problem are you looking at?
<schnobs> Last time I tried was 18months ago (=many versions back), but the onyl docking problem I had was FASA Gemini.
<Starwaster> yawing back and forth
<Starwaster> I never liked that magnetic crap so I figured I would lower all the forces
<schnobs> after docking, just lots of wobbly?
<Starwaster> I thought RO got rid of them entirely but it doesnt so I started slashing all the values
<Starwaster> maybe what's happening is that there's a constant torque but then when the axes pass each other there's not enough torque to cancel out the already built up momentum?
<schnobs> You're supposed to know this, but just to be sure: you didn't "deploy" the docking ports, did you?
<Starwaster> in trying to eliminate the problem I made it worse?
<Starwaster> this isn't Ven's POS crap
<Starwaster> there is no deploy
<schnobs> OK, ok.
<Starwaster> sorry I have serious issues with Ven's parts
<schnobs> Sorry, I can't tell you. You'd need to tap someone with more knowledge of KSPs inner workings.
<Starwaster> well it's either go back to the previous settings or the next step is cutting them entirely to zero
<schnobs> For all I know, the magnetism may be more than kindness, but actually work around some issue or other.
<Starwaster> modern docking ports don't have that kind of magnetic shit
<schnobs> I'm aware of that. It's just that I wouldn't be surprised to learn that something about KSP or Unity makes it necessary.
<schnobs> awang: that dll does something about engine configs on loading saved vessels?
<schnobs> (written before I clicked the dropbox link. Title is clear)
<schnobs> awang: Please forgive me for not trying immediately. I've got less than an hour to go and would rather just launch a rocket or two.
Maxsimal has quit [Quit: Web client closed]
Bornholio has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
Bornholio has joined #RO
Senshi has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
technicalfool_ has joined #RO
Technicalfool has quit [Ping timeout: 186 seconds]
petti has quit [Ping timeout: 186 seconds]
SirKeplan has quit [Ping timeout: 186 seconds]
VanDisaster has quit [Ping timeout: 186 seconds]
NBones has quit [Ping timeout: 186 seconds]
NBones has joined #RO
SirKeplan has joined #RO
petti has joined #RO
mkalte has quit [Ping timeout: 186 seconds]
mkalte has joined #RO
egg is now known as egg|nomz|egg
<schnobs> Managed to make orbit in dec 1952, on RD-103 and WAC-AJ10. Controlled throughout (proc upper is barely any heavier than the sounding rocket non-controller).
<schnobs> Basic design looks promising for a moonshot, but I guess I'll sweep out my entire workshp for type-II tanks anyway.
<schnobs> That's it for today. 'night!
<awang> schnobs: No worries about not trying it right away. It's RO/RP-0, we have plenty of time before release :P
schnobs has quit [Ping timeout: 198 seconds]
egg|nomz|egg is now known as egg|zzz|egg
leudaimon has quit [Ping timeout: 182 seconds]
qwertyy has joined #RO
qwertyy_ has quit [Ping timeout: 182 seconds]
<Starwaster> so I had the (*I thought*) neat idea to use RO's descent mode module on certain rovers to put their center of mass down lower on their chassis where machinery, batts, drive trains, etc might be.. to make them less prone to flipping. And it mostly works... at night... mostly. (sorry)
<Starwaster> but I swear to god when it DOES flip it still manages to land on its freaking back.
<Starwaster> EVERY. SINGLE. TIME.
<awang> Starwaster: Land it upside-down so it flips the right way up?
<awang> :P
Slaintemaith has joined #RO
<Slaintemaith> So, let's say I'm attempting to do a lunar landing mission using FASA parts and RO...
<Slaintemaith> How the HELL does one control their spacecraft? Because RCS ain't cutting it.
<Slaintemaith> Even a little.
<Slaintemaith> I don't expect crisp maneuvers like the stock game.
<Slaintemaith> I don't even expect speedy ones like the movies.
<Slaintemaith> I do expect precise ones, though.
<Slaintemaith> Also, MechJeb doesn't seem to get along with...well everything.
<Slaintemaith> And RO used to function. Now it's just a struggle to get everything working with each other, much less getting to a point where one can play the game and enjoy it.
Slaintemaith has quit [Quit: Web client closed]
leudaimon has joined #RO
Shoe17 has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity]
qwertyy has quit [Ping timeout: 198 seconds]
qwertyy has joined #RO
<Bornholio> I did a bunch of lunar landers last weekend using RCS and AJ(mids). I never use landing guidance, just Suicide burn and Time to impact indicators
<Bornholio> .sigh then i notice he has quiten