NathanKell changed the topic of #RO to: Welcome to the discussion channel for the Realism Overhaul (meta)mod for KSP! Realism Overhaul Main Thread https://goo.gl/wH7Dzb ! RO Spreadsheet http://goo.gl/Oem3g0 ! Code of Conduct http://goo.gl/wOSv2M ! | [15:01] <soundnfury> Straight Eight Stronk (and) RP-0/1 is basically "Space Agency Spreadsheet Simulator" with a rocket-flying minigame
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<Starwaster>
anyone know if there's any numbers available on what the side boosters and core had left in the way of propellants when they jettisoned? (Falcon Heavy)
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<schnobs>
o/
<Qboid>
schnobs: awang left a message for you in #RO [17.02.2018 15:30:15]: "Looks like the reason my previous TF dlls didn't have any logging was because the Log() implementation was commented out... Recompiled with actual logging at https://www.dropbox.com/sh/lefodiip3zs0yip/AAA-Fk9OTaj0IKEP3AiarJsda?dl=0"
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<soundnfury>
now that's precision - off an unguided kick stage, my lunar probe is on course for an impact (and I was only aiming for flyby, now I wish I'd taken the impactor contract on spec...)
<schnobs>
*thumbs up*
<soundnfury>
:)
<schnobs>
I'm having difficulties launching Thor. Long-lasting booster, if I don't burn up I come out way too high.
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<soundnfury>
should pass through 45° at about 800m/s, shortly afterwards come off the gravy turn and just pitch near-horizontal (Q will be low enough that you can do so), then you should be able to get Ap around 150km at Thor burnout
<schnobs>
Thanks.
<schnobs>
Integration woes: For Science doesn't display the science dialog, directly tries to store data on a core.
<schnobs>
Probe core doesn't actually have a container yet, so it ends up clogging the experiment.
<schnobs>
Antenna has a "transmit all" button, but it doesn't work for me.
<schnobs>
For science seems to be active by default, I have to remember to turn it off at every launch.
<schnobs>
.
<schnobs>
Also, I really really want a transmitter that can go on the tip on my sounding rockets.
<schnobs>
Why oh why has the standard communotron been moved up in the tech tree?
<soundnfury>
'cos it's quite a powerful antenna
<soundnfury>
sounding rockets aren't likely to need anything more than the probe core's built-in antenna
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<soundnfury>
(which should be good up to about 10,000km iirc)
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<schnobs>
Sounding rocket transmitter is slow, though. Occasionally you miss out on data because you can't transmit fast enough. That's why I like to add a better transmitter.
<schnobs>
It's odd really: a pair of sputnik things arguably works better in that you can run transmission in parallel, also don't need to extend.
<schnobs>
Still, I want my preferred nosecone. That bothers me more than it has any right to.
<Mike`>
is venus' atmosphere pressure bugged? The tracking station shows the same pressure as mars' atmo.
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<Mike`>
!tell Pap apparently "ModuleTagUnpressurizedCockpit" needs to be "ModuleUnpressurizedCockpit" - nathan committed the changes but didn't update the sheet, i can't because it's in a formula - could you do it? :)
<Qboid>
Mike`: I'll redirect this as soon as they are around.
<schnobs>
How do I tell the RT computer to stage?
<schnobs>
Ah, got it: mouse has to be outside the window.
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<Starwaster>
oooo a pricing sheet for Falcon! Let's take up a collection so we can send something up
<Probus>
Where, where?
<schnobs>
Oh... tried to purchase a part before it was researched. Was told that's not possible.
<schnobs>
Short flicker near my funds, apparently it was deducted, refunded, refunded again.
<schnobs>
I now have more mney than before that attempt.
<schnobs>
Yup. Try to buy a not-yet researched part and you will receive the amount it's supposed to cost.
<schnobs>
When it finally becomes available, it will cost... nothing.
<Starwaster>
schnobs uh what?
<Starwaster>
is thata stock bug or some RP thing?
<schnobs>
search me.
<schnobs>
Probably KCT, but frankly I don't know.
<schnobs>
early Satellite Contract:
<schnobs>
send 320u to 850x5000km.
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<schnobs>
not actually difficult, but how do I square that with my existing LV?
<schnobs>
Just bring enough dV and make things up as you go...
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<Starwaster>
schnobs that's what I do
<Probus>
Where'd you find the pricing sheet for Falcon Starwaster?
<Probus>
Nice. I think if we all save up we can put one of us in space in a Ford Pinto.
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<Starwaster>
getting excited because I can finally design and launch a Falcon Heavy in my career game... then I just noticed... I'm in Sandbox mode :(
<Starwaster>
T_T
<Probus>
lol!
<Starwaster>
wasn't thinking... forgot I hadn't unlocked 3.75m parts yet
<Starwaster>
now if I can just get Stage Recovery to actually recover my Falcon-alikes...
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<Starwaster>
might help if I could find out how much propellant is actually left prior to separation... and oh shit.... I just realized... I bet SR is looking at the prefabs to get TWR.... that will not work for SSTU engine clusters
<Bornholio>
thought it used stage stats at destroy
<Starwaster>
has to look at each relevant module per part....
<Bornholio>
you know at first they are interesting, but us porn addicts can watch them all day long and not be bored.
<Bornholio>
.wanderOff thanks Bill
<Maxsimal>
getting through the golden spreadsheet - when i finally installed RO, now getting 4 MM errors - is that normal?
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<BadRocketsCO>
Howdy
<Bornholio>
have latest MM?
<Bornholio>
and what is making the errors
<Maxsimal>
waiting for it to finish loading and I'll get the log. I have MM 3.0.3
<Bornholio>
I had a few that went away with 3.0.4
<Maxsimal>
ok I'll grab that and try again
<Maxsimal>
thanks Bornholio
<Bornholio>
oh and too many patches :P
<Maxsimal>
yeah I'm at 18954 patches - and I haven't put in RP-1 yet, just RO dev
<BadRocketsCO>
Man, I have fallen in love with the vanguard
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<BadRocketsCO>
Such a cheap launcher
<leudaimon>
my install has almost 23k patches, on MM 3.0.4, no errors
<Qboid>
leudaimon: NathanKell left a message for you in #RO [17.02.2018 06:16:56]: "you can turn off autoshape fairings (as I do). I agree with awang that maybe it should default to off. But I strongly feel you should not get free infini-fairings, they need tooling like everything else procedural."
<Qboid>
leudaimon: NathanKell left a message for you in #RO [17.02.2018 06:22:47]: "I firmly believe we should retain the A-4 / X-1 Cockpit option. Something like that was indeed considered and almost done. The X-1 cockpit is pressurized, so it won't kill the crew inside. It can't, however, survive reentry at high speeds, only very low speeds. That's where you need the X-15 cockpit."
<Qboid>
leudaimon: NathanKell left a message for you in #RO [17.02.2018 06:17:20]: "someone should add the max utilization to the tank descriptions :)"
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<Maxsimal>
Bornholio: Where do you get 3.0.4? Latest release on github is 3.0.3
<leudaimon>
!tell NathanKell I do the same with the fairings, and I think it's really nice to have them to be tooled. I just thought keeping auto-shape off by default will help people realize they can have a single fairing
<Qboid>
leudaimon: I'll redirect this as soon as they are around.
<leudaimon>
!tell NathanKell also, totally agree about the X-1 :) It's not as silly as it looks, thinking of how sturdy is the actual X-1... and for the max utilization, I see someone already PRed it ;)
<Qboid>
leudaimon: I'll redirect this as soon as they are around.
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<Maxsimal>
Sarbian, if I stop mid-load, will I still get a log of errors from MM? I don't think I'm progressing further - I'm stuck at '4 errors related to GameData/RealismOverhaul/RO_SuggestedMods/RO_RCS_Config.cfg. Progress bar says FASA/Gemini2/FASA_GeminiCentaur/LFE_GeminiTranstage_Twin/FASAGeminiLFECentarTwin
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<Sarbian>
yeah,kill it and update
<Maxsimal>
Will do. Thanks for the fast help guys :)
<schnobs>
Maxsimal: the log is written while the game loads, if you're fast you can watch messages pop up as quickly as they're generated.
<Maxsimal>
Still 4 errors, still stuck at the same place
<schnobs>
Stuck at laoding sounds like Kopernicus.
<Maxsimal>
ok, where's the MM log? Not in the logs folder...
<schnobs>
ah, no, you want the ksp player.log.
<schnobs>
if on linux, you may want to try "grep -i error"
<Maxsimal>
Not on linux unfortunately.
<schnobs>
Then open with any editor that can handle large files (not sure if wordpad will do), and start reading at the bottom.
<schnobs>
There's probably an ever-repeating error message.
<Maxsimal>
going to delete fasa and reget, make sure I have the right version from git
<Bornholio>
its not fasa
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<schnobs>
"CentarTwin"? -- I'd like to buy an u.
<Bornholio>
that was the last thing successful
<Maxsimal>
Ok, so you think I should look at kopernicus? I have the 1.3.1-5 version. I think I recall someone saying that might be bad?
<Bornholio>
i have -5 might be causing ocean problems. i haven't ocean landed in a while so not sure
<Maxsimal>
Yeah I read that. But you got to launch a spaceship, so you at least go the thing loaded.
<Starwaster>
This isn't harsh is it? https://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/index.php?/topic/50296-131-deadly-reentry-v762-nov-16-2017-the-ariel-edition/&page=218&tab=comments#comment-3298352
<Maxsimal>
I've been running the game after each mod install, and launching to a game to test - it finally broke when I put in RO
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<schnobs>
Maxsimal: when I had Kopernicus woes, it swamped the logfile. *Your* last entry seems to be something different.
<Maxsimal>
ok, well the last bit with the error is in realfuels - I guess I'll try deleting that and re-getting to make sure I get that right
<Bornholio>
got it from master and made sure only to put in RF folder
<Bornholio>
RF is a pain BTW
<Bornholio>
I specially marked it in the list " 'cause yall are gonna bork this one :)"
<Bornholio>
master install will be missing the RealFuels.dll and TestFlightRF.dll pretty sure
<Maxsimal>
alright, well, hopefully it's better this time - here goes
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<Maxsimal>
Ok yeah that was in
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<schnobs>
Wow! I do have a ConfigCache.
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<Bornholio>
ChaoticBirb enters the Fray
<awang>
EntropicRaptor is Yveltal?
<schnobs>
awang: why would I need a new TF dll?
<Bornholio>
has logging enabled in it
<awang>
schnobs: Were you one of those people using my TF dll to try to figure out why ignition failures are so frequent?
<schnobs>
not really. I just wrote it up to the engine being unreliable + bad luck.
<awang>
Oh, never mind then
<awang>
I thought you were
<awang>
idk, I guess the overall feeling is that ignition failures seem to be happening a bit too frequently given the probabilities in the cfg file
<awang>
Or at least that's what I've read here
<awang>
So the TF dll is for trying to figure out what probabilities TF is actually using internally
<schnobs>
I didn't even check the probabilities in the config.
<schnobs>
Yesterday the AJ-10 failed me left and right, to day not once.
<schnobs>
It wasn't so infuriating that I doubted TF. And yeah, if you hadn't asked I would not have notice the streak of luck I had today.
<schnobs>
I guess perception is important after all.
<awang>
True
<awang>
I first thought something was wrong when I had to revert 8+ times to get an engine to ignite
<awang>
And that engine was supposed to have 80%+ ignition chance, at least
<awang>
So I thought the probabilities were a bit off
<awang>
AJ-10 is pretty bad in terms of reliability, though
<awang>
So guess that's not too surprising
<saabstory88>
General question to the group, first see the following reference image https://i.imgur.com/IfAnqhg.png . Highighted in green, should these intertank surfaces be tweakable?
<schnobs>
Saabstory88: might be neat, but then again. It's not as if we had a shortage of tweakables and general UI clutter.
<awang>
Saabstory88: Woah, what tank is that?
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<saabstory88>
I've been working on this mod for a while, slowly making progress
<awang>
Saabstory88: idk how tweakable it should be; if it can be extended way above the top of the actual tank it seems like it might intrude on interstage territory
<saabstory88>
Well the compatible interstages will be tweakable by default
<EntropicRaptor>
awang: please do not stuff me into a pokeball.
<saabstory88>
I was considering having the node follow the cylindrical tank mating surface
<awang>
schnobs: You mean combined tank + interstage?
<schnobs>
yes.
<awang>
EntropicRaptor: But how am I supposed to become the greatest trainer of them all?
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<awang>
schnobs: For reduced part count?
<awang>
Saabstory88: Actually, now that I think about it proc interstages can extend the fairings above the attachment point
<awang>
s/above/above\/below/
<schnobs>
In the past I've gone to great lengths to have some kind of bubbly tank thing stick into the interstage. Havng that work out of the box would make my designs easier.
<Qboid>
awang meant to say: Saabstory88: Actually, now that I think about it proc interstages can extend the fairings above/below the attachment point
<saabstory88>
No, separate interstages / intertanks
<awang>
So I guess making that area tweakable makes sense
<saabstory88>
Cool
<schnobs>
Will there be an option for separate bulkeads, too?
<awang>
Separate interstages/intertanks?
<awang>
Separate bulkheads?
* awang
is getting somewhat confusing
<awang>
Er
<awang>
s/confusing/confused
<Qboid>
awang meant to say: /me is getting somewhat confused
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<awang>
mmm
<awang>
s/mmm/.../
<Qboid>
awang meant to say: ...
<awang>
Wow I can't type
<Bornholio>
looks interesting Saabstory88 , does that all a lot to the tank module?
<saabstory88>
The tank has a cylinder and tank ends. These tank ends have small cylindrical extensions which constitute the mating surface
<saabstory88>
Separate parts for each tank diameter which can be decouplers or not, so they can also just be intertanks
<saabstory88>
I'm in the process of building a more complex collider to that you could place RCS tanks within these cylinders
<Bornholio>
great, I'd say tweakable, unless they add a lot of weight to the part modules
<Bornholio>
RF already makes tanks massive
<saabstory88>
I'm explictly controlling tank weight
<saabstory88>
*mass
<Bornholio>
in a save/modlue size sense
<saabstory88>
ahh
<saabstory88>
I'm just reporting calculated mass/volume to RF
<saabstory88>
As far as tweaking these, it should be pretty simple
<schnobs>
About to sign of for today, but quickly...
<schnobs>
Saabstory88: a long time ago, we talked about making smarter interstages (removing the need to manually tweak for engine length).
<saabstory88>
Interesting... something I'll have to consider down the road. Thanks for the input!
<schnobs>
Don't know if you even remember, but n case you find yourself with time at your hands and nothing to do...
<schnobs>
Thanks!
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<leudaimon>
!tell Pap Early rocketry is supposed to unlock Nitrous Oxide, but at least in my install it is unlocking HTP instead
<Qboid>
leudaimon: I'll redirect this as soon as they are around.
<Pap>
leudaimon: I think that changed a long time ago. Everything moved up. Nitrous should be unlocked from start and HTP unlocks there now
<Qboid>
Pap: Mike` left a message for you in #RO [18.02.2018 12:38:55]: "apparently "ModuleTagUnpressurizedCockpit" needs to be "ModuleUnpressurizedCockpit" - nathan committed the changes but didn't update the sheet, i can't because it's in a formula - could you do it? :)"
<Qboid>
Pap: leudaimon left a message for you in #RO [18.02.2018 19:44:02]: "Early rocketry is supposed to unlock Nitrous Oxide, but at least in my install it is unlocking HTP instead"
<leudaimon>
Pap Nitrous oxide unlocks much further ahead... orbital 57-58 iirc
<Qboid>
leudaimon meant to say: Pap Nitrous oxide unlocks much further ahead... orbital 56-57 iirc
<Pap>
Leudaimon is that really when it unlocks or just when the part holder on the tech tree shows?
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<leudaimon>
it's all weird... nitrous oxyde in the RCS gui in the VAB shows orbital 56-57 and in the tech tree basic rocketry. For HTP it's the other way round
<Pap>
The GUI is correct (I think) as that pulls from internal data. I won't be around my pc for a while to check though
<leudaimon>
no worries... just to let you know
<soundnfury>
leudaimon: yeah the tech tree ones come from hand-written PARTUPGRADE {} nodes, there are a few of those that are wrong (some proc avionics levels, for instance)
<leudaimon>
yeah soundnfury I noticed that the first upper procedural is later than the first non-proc upper
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<Bornholio>
meanie sending me off to an empt channel
<Bornholio>
:)
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<Bornholio>
Launching Venius Pioneer A&B with 3 hours margin. Wish me luck late '54 launch window .sigh
<saabstory88>
Good luck!
<awang>
Bornholio: What's your rocket?
<Bornholio>
3m straight, 3 lr79(tier 3) lr89 second stage, lr91 third (orbit), AJ-10 Cruise Stage, tried to get an eccentric orbit, with a small solid but its not gonna happen
<saabstory88>
Sounds like a thin stick
<Bornholio>
33.7m tall
<Bornholio>
==150tons to squak the pad
<Bornholio>
squeak
<awang>
Nice
<awang>
What do you mean three hours margin?
<Bornholio>
they launch from orbit within three hours of eachother to make sure one makes it
<Pap>
Yes Saabstory88 the tree hasn't changed much
<saabstory88>
Sweet. And tanks still reside in materials science>
<saabstory88>
?
<soundnfury>
Saabstory88: what is this beautiful object, some sort of new proc tank part?
<saabstory88>
Been working on this for a while. Tanks with static, specific ends, and configurable lengths
<leudaimon>
Saabstory88 are those the stretchy tanks NK was planning to use as the main RP-0 tanks instead of normal procedural ones?
<saabstory88>
Unsure, I mean, I started this a while ago, but they might be. Finally made the plugin work correctly. Will keep the repo updated as I work through it
<leudaimon>
cool! they look very nice
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<saabstory88>
Thanks!
<saabstory88>
Progress will be found here: https://github.com/Saabstory88/RP-0-Addons The plugin is easy to use, so other mod authors could use it to create tanks, or other arbitrarily linear scaled parts
<leudaimon>
oh wow, the geiger-muller is very OP!
<Bornholio>
Torii, Squares, Hexagons, oooh how about the parts from RealISRU
<saabstory88>
It's all about preserving detail. You can create detailed tank model and only scale a portion of it within constraints. The big thing is to think about how the textures will tile, but there a config option to fall back to stretching instead
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<Bornholio>
awesome, my second venus launch is cruising past the moon taking pictures for science :)
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<soundnfury>
Bornholio: I hope the moon didn't screw up its trajectory!
<Bornholio>
yes it did
<Bornholio>
and no relight since i don't have AJ mid