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<lamont>
wow i broke something weird
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<lamont>
oh geeze i just need more coffee
<Bornholio>
starwaster whats the status on Newcryo Rf
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<Starwaster>
lamont: it is a known fact that coders convert caffeine directly into code. If you haven't consumed coffee then you are drawing on your fat reserves and muscle which do NOT convert to very high quality code
<Starwaster>
KNOWN. FACT. (oid)
<Starwaster>
bornholio slow
<lamont>
yep, agreed
<Bornholio>
is working code?
<Bornholio>
should test?
<Bornholio>
Elseif Stay RFmaster
* soundnfury
gives Starwaster a comathematician
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<NathanKell|AFK>
Psa no stream tonight, I'll be out
<SpecimenSpiff>
With that fighter, I'm less impressed with the thrust and vectoring than that the engines didnt flame out
<Bornholio>
but the wings didn't rip off
<Bornholio>
far likes to rip my wings off when i make them do that
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<Starwaster>
bornholio that's because you need to see FAR for what it really is, a sick demented little boy who likes to pull the wings off of flies. YOU are the fly. Have fun.
<Starwaster>
Bornholio: Here's a link to the RF dll. There might be other stuff on the other branches that's not in this but that's got the MLI. Add layers by using the slider on the part context menu. (ignore the ones that say insulation or insulation type - they don't do anything): https://www.dropbox.com/s/jw27k5004rxpih3/RealFuels.dll?dl=1
<awang>
Good news: KRASH now successfully finds the RP-0 dll and binds methods to compensate for tooling
<awang>
Bad news: KRASH doesn't actually compensate for tooling
<Starwaster>
bornholio should be ok to just throw the plugin in with the new one. btw, caveats: MLI doesn't have extra cost or mass (YET) and it should NOT be exposed to high temperatures like ascent or reentry
<Starwaster>
if you do the part will likely explode. Protect it with a fairing on ascent
<Bornholio>
hmm
<Starwaster>
that issue will be addressed... probably by destroying the MLI when the skin overheats. What happens is that because it's a poor thermal conductor, heat builds up on the exterior. Causing it to go all explodey-wodey
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<Starwaster>
so probably best thing is for it to melt or something and cause the skin to revert to its normal conductivity. Probably just layer by layer until a stable situation is reached
<Starwaster>
in fact it's probably just two lines of code....
<Bornholio>
doesn't sound like real mli then
<Starwaster>
because it doesnt melt?
<Bornholio>
not like its parafin that melts off
<Bornholio>
if it came off it was almost catastrophic and due to aero
<Starwaster>
one catastrophe at a time please
<Bornholio>
regardless noted, will fairing
<Vader111>
Happy Hatching
<Vader111>
Day Nathan
<Starwaster>
lamont, please persist PEG data per saved MJ vessel data? (things like pitch program... and other PEG parameters that the player might change)
<lamont>
hmmmmm i thought it did
<Vader111>
so it isn't just me going mad
<lamont>
pretty sure i changed that for NK a long time ago
<Starwaster>
no.... err I'm not on #12... maybe you did it for one of the recent builds? All I know is right now it's not persisting
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<lamont>
yeah its alll Pass.Type | Pass.Global
<lamont>
i changed that ages ago during NKs 1.2.2 twitch stuff
<lamont>
is it something specific not persisting? the boolean toggles aren’t using EditableWhatever objects and are just true/false
<lamont>
is there an EditableBoolean...
<Starwaster>
pitch rate, pitch end... I changed those last launch and that was a totally differently named rocket
<Starwaster>
start PEG after
<Starwaster>
wait... global?
<lamont>
i /think/ the way that works is new rockets get the same setting as your last rocket, but rockets of different existing types don’t overwrite each other
<lamont>
(new rocket types)
<lamont>
so if you’re interating on a launch vehicle each new type will start with whatever you were playing with last, but if you go back to an old type you get the same settings…
<lamont>
i think..
<lamont>
maybe…
<Starwaster>
lamont these are all existing designs not new designs
<Starwaster>
one of them needs a high pitch rate of 0.7 and the other 0.545 but I have to change them each time that I use a different rocket
<lamont>
there is barely any use of Pass.Type without Pass.Global in the existing codebase
<Starwaster>
awang... lolwhut? How did you do that
<Starwaster>
lamont ok I'll just live with it I guess
<lamont>
well i agree it shouldn’t work that way, i’m just confused
<lamont>
pretty sure the Global was there because NK hated seeing the hardcoded defaults on new designs, but it shouldn’t be stomping over types it already knows about
<awang>
Starwaster: I have no idea
<awang>
I've had two of them for a while now
<Starwaster>
ok it's like this... I have a design I use a LOT. Typically just to 190km for short tourist hops. I know what parameters it needs. I haven't used it in awhile and I loaded it in a few minutes ago and its parameters were the same as the previous rocket that I had launched, which had a totally different set of params.... non circular orbit of 400-190. That carried over to the design that has always jsut been 190
<awang>
Got three all of a sudden
<awang>
No idea what KSP is doing
<Starwaster>
awang well the more the merrier. More is better right? MOAR????
<Starwaster>
MOAR MENUZ!!!
<Starwaster>
GIMME ALL TEH MENUZ
<awang>
The thing is I have my install in git
<awang>
So in theory it should reset to the same state every time
<awang>
Evidently something even funkier is going on
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<lamont>
Starwaster: maybe updating the code invalidates the old params?
<lamont>
so the apo and periapsis are global-only
<lamont>
oh actually its not inclination and periapsis are both by type
<Bornholio>
he's rocking out to google-chan singing
<Probus>
My son is minoring in Japanese. I will have to see if he knows what she's saying
<Rokker>
I gotta say, the launch sequence of SS-520 is pretty darn RO-esque
<awang>
!tell blowfish Slinq looks interesting, I'll check it out!
<Qboid>
awang: I'll redirect this as soon as they are around.
<awang>
Anyone else here have experience with Slinq?
<awang>
Hmmm
<awang>
Notifications on vessel change sound like an even better idea
<lamont>
Mike: what kind of rocket (how much time to orbit?)
<lamont>
Bornholio: what does the red mean on the spreadsheet?
<Bornholio>
something like NOT OPTIONAL
<lamont>
'k
<Bornholio>
are you building a 1.3.1
<lamont>
starting on it
<Bornholio>
good luck, took me four tries :P
<Bornholio>
last time i loaded small groups of mods
<lamont>
so the github urls are just for reference if there’s no comments?
<Bornholio>
yes if in the CKAN section
<awang>
Do you guys think KRASH sim costs should drop as bits of rocket are unloaded during flight?
<awang>
e.g. drop a stage and it gets unloaded
<awang>
Or costs increase as you get within physics range of another vessel
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<Bornholio>
not sure what in RO/rp-0 makes things stop being symetrically modified when they are symetrical
<Bornholio>
but STAHP
<awang>
Bornholio: Quick fix: Pick up the modified piece and place it again
<awang>
But yes, it's really really annoying otherwise
<Bornholio>
yes, but once you made it to pad , no dice
<awang>
It's nice for things like RCS, where you may want to have one pair enabled for one direction, but not the other
<awang>
Oh, ouch
<awang>
Fix it in the VAB, and do some save file editing?
<Bornholio>
then that is simple, place it seperate in pairs. linked symetry is critical
<awang>
True
<Bornholio>
.kicksdirt
<awang>
Could get annoying if vertical placement is important
<awang>
But linked symmetry is probably more important
<Bornholio>
oh and it can cause lockups when you go back to edit it
<awang>
Wait what
<awang>
That's news
<Bornholio>
wel i have a craft with unlinked symetry occasionally when a part is selected it will spam fill the tank and make vaB useless until reloaded
<awang>
Bornholio: Do you have TweakScale installed?
<Bornholio>
yes but not in use on this craft
<blowfish>
nice, TRICOM 1R successful
<Qboid>
blowfish: awang left a message for you in #RO [03.02.2018 18:11:52]: "Slinq looks interesting, I'll check it out!"
<awang>
Bornholio: Interesting
<awang>
All the NREs look like they're happening in different mods
<awang>
Some in FinePrint, some in FAR, some in KSP UI code
<awang>
IVAEVACollapseGroups
<awang>
Wait
<awang>
Might have been looking at the wrong NREs
<awang>
Bornholio: Were you changing a slider on the symmetric parts?
<Bornholio>
they are just tanks i removed tank and refilled, but the opposite didn't
<Bornholio>
the V-2 tanks
<Bornholio>
well off to a party, have fun
<awang>
Hmmm
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<awang>
Jeez, so many NREs
<Bornholio>
yeah it explodes
<Bornholio>
almost nothing till then
<Bornholio>
just a bit of MJ normal peg stuff
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<ProjectThoth>
So, rocker-bogie question - if rovers with that suspension type are only supported at one point, how come they don't flop forward or backwards when accelerating/stopping?
<ProjectThoth>
Are they really all supported through their center of mass?
<ProjectThoth>
Oh, huh, it's the differential.
<awang>
!tell blowfish* Is there any disadvantage to Slinq?
<Qboid>
awang: I'll redirect this as soon as they are around.
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<Starwaster>
Slinqy
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<Mike`>
lamont, 3 stages to orbit in 7min 16 secs: 1st: 2:17 with SLT 1.24, 2nd: 3:07 with TWR 1.14, 3rd 1:52 with TWR 1.58
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<awang>
Uhhh
<awang>
Possible RP-0 bug
<awang>
Actually, never mind
<awang>
I'm dumb
<lamont>
Mike: cool
<Mike`>
just answering your question. :)
<Starwaster>
awang no
<Starwaster>
(no, KRASH sim costs shouldn't drop just because parts of your rocket fall off)
<lamont>
useful datum
<lamont>
i’m still trying to teach myself proper trajectory optimization so we don’t have to do the repetetive launches…
<Starwaster>
what the absolute f***.... PEG suddenly decided (without consulting me BTW) that my rocket needs a bath
<Starwaster>
same damned rocket it launched half a dozen times.... something wrong with my payload? Did I load it down with too much?
<Mike`>
was it dirty? :D
<lamont>
t = 40 seconds and phi = 45?
<lamont>
too much payload will do that. at tgo = 40 PEG has to relax the burnout position constraint so desired-position is just set equal to predicted-position. if phi = 45 then you’re still clipping and predicted-position is nowhere near where you want to actually go. at which point shit usually gets funny...
<Starwaster>
lamont no, actually it was fluctuating, cycling over and over again
<Starwaster>
hell yeah... almost double the payload mass
<lamont>
ah discoball
<Starwaster>
total dV was still within acceptable limits so I didn't notice the lower stages weren't getting it where it needed to be
<Starwaster>
might be at the limit of my current technology
<lamont>
yeah that’s like that rocket i asked that question about on the PEGAS thread… the Atlas V HLV i’d put way too much payload on and it was never getting to orbit...
<Starwaster>
I think the problem was I threw a couple of extra tons of LOX on there for the space station's life support
<awang>
Dangit
<awang>
How do I actually create a Slinq stream
<awang>
Wait
<awang>
I may have found it
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<Probus>
Oh. PEG is KOS based. I will need to dink with it. I'm sure I can mess it up proper.
<Probus>
I've got one that works pretty good already. I will compare the two.
<lamont>
there’s an implementation of PEG in kOS which is called PEGAS
<lamont>
its different from the implementation that i have in MJ
<soundnfury>
lamont: is PEGAS for launching horses?
<lamont>
i think so?
<Starwaster>
as long as they dont mass too much
<Starwaster>
btw, PEG needs better sanity checking prior to launch where it can properly determine whether or not it can get to orbit with the current payload
<Starwaster>
and if the payload masses too much it needs to display in flashing LARGE red letters: ARE YOU OUT OF YOUR FUCKING MIND???
<Starwaster>
unless of course educational mode is enabled in which case that can be sanitized