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<Bornholio>
pap nathakell|afk seems like the [x] science .dll does a good job of taking away most of the stutter
<Starwaster>
wasn't ModuleEngineIgnitor deprecated? I just noticed I have a bunch of KWR engines still using it.... doesn't even look like limited ignition should be working for them. Not sure what configs they're using
<Starwaster>
ohhh that's right... MEC can still use and interpret the old configs if they are in MEC configs
<Starwaster>
nvm
oeuf is now known as egg
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<Rokker>
Bornholio: nice
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<Bornholio>
when your high tempo they don't get baths
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<BadRocketsCo>
hullo
* BadRocketsCo
pokes soundnfury with a failed install
<awang>
!seen NathanKell*
<Qboid>
awang: I haven't seen the user NathanKell* yet.
<awang>
;seen NathanKell*
<awang>
!seen NathanKell
<Qboid>
awang: I haven't seen the user NathanKell yet.
<awang>
...
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<BadInternetCo>
Heh
<Bornholio>
!seen NathanKell|AFK
<Qboid>
Bornholio: I haven't seen the user NathanKell|AFK yet.
<Bornholio>
he is vaporware
<UmbralRaptor>
sudo apt-get install NathanKell
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<awang>
Dangit
<awang>
Why do Sarbian's profiling instructions not work for me :(
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<awang>
Does anyone know the actual dynamic pressure faced by real-life rockets at max Q?
<awang>
Or a ballpark number?
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<armed_troop>
yo, is the ModList in the /topic spreadsheet out of date?
<armed_troop>
it sounds like you'll want to dig through the github releases page
<armed_troop>
but I can't tell you which version
<armed_troop>
ah wait, 0.5.34.134 may be the last for 1.2.x
<Slaintemaith>
Fabulous@
<Slaintemaith>
Thankee!
<awang>
Er
<awang>
Actually, never mind
<armed_troop>
awang: oh?
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<armed_troop>
Bornholio: what does red highlighting mean?
<awang>
Momentary confusion on reading scrollback
<awang>
Don't mind me
<Bornholio>
awang awang have you played with TF ignitions enough to have an understanding of whats is going on? Seems like ignition failures are much more common than % in config
<Bornholio>
Red means something like its Required
<Bornholio>
at least for CKAN stuff
<armed_troop>
ah ok
<awang>
Bornholio: No, not really
<awang>
I just know that they seem to be a lot more common
<awang>
I remember putting some debug stuff into TF some time ago
<armed_troop>
Bornholio: I see that on macOS 10.13 there's that nasty flickering bug that requires passing -force-opengl
<armed_troop>
which seems to be because they're on unity 5.4
<awang>
Stuff like printing out ignition chances, with what was actually rolled
<awang>
Don't remember seeing anything funky in those
<awang>
Although it's been a while
<Bornholio>
armed is that -opengl requirement from unity?
<awang>
Oh, looks like it's still there
<armed_troop>
Bornholio: yeah...
<awang>
armed_troop: There's a flickering bug?
<armed_troop>
(afaict)
<armed_troop>
yes, very bad flickering on macos 10.13
<Bornholio>
I run in both DX9/11 but haven't tried OpenGL lately
<armed_troop>
it's a macos thing
<armed_troop>
Bornholio: do mods built against 1.3 have to be rebuilt for 1.3.1?
<awang>
I'm on 10.13
<armed_troop>
awang: do you get flickering?
<armed_troop>
if not -- does your GPU support Metal?
<Bornholio>
if its on my list it runs (in windows) even if not compiled directly for 1.3.1
<awang>
armed_troop: I don't recall ever seeing flickering?
<awang>
idk if my GPU supports Metal
<armed_troop>
it may very well depend on GPU
<armed_troop>
and MEtal
<armed_troop>
Metal*
<armed_troop>
Bornholio: I get two ModuleManager errors, need to figure out where they're coming from
<awang>
Looks like my computer should support Metal, in theory
<armed_troop>
what GPU do you have?
<awang>
armed_troop: GeForce 650M, IIRC
<armed_troop>
ahhh, macbook pro?
<awang>
Bornholio: Looking back through the logging code, I'm sort of inclined to say that ignition failures may partially be due to dynamic pressure?
<awang>
There are a few multipliers here
<armed_troop>
I wonder if you'd get flickering if you force Intel HD (with gfxCardStatus)
<awang>
armed_troop: Yep, mid-2012 retina pro
<armed_troop>
I have a 13" with Iris graphics (mid-2016)
<awang>
armed_troop: idk, I never tried. Don't think I have gfxCardStatus installed
<awang>
Been using istat menus to keep track of what GPU is in use
<armed_troop>
also -- is loading supposed to take a while?
<armed_troop>
I think istat can force a specific gpu but I don't recall.
<awang>
armed_troop: Can take upwards of 30 minutes for me
<armed_troop>
darn, ok
<awang>
But I have over 100 mods installed
<awang>
Bornholio: Looks like TF uses whatever ignition chance defined by the curve in the cfgs if you're in prelaunch
<awang>
Otherwise, there's a multiplier based on dynamic pressure and number of ignitions
<Bornholio>
yeah it just fails so often though, my triple lr89's fail at least on per every other launch
<Bornholio>
and they are max data
<awang>
Bornholio: Yeah, I've had ignition issues too
<awang>
Multiple ignition failures in a row
<awang>
idk if I'm looking in the wrong place though
<awang>
[7] = 3.7863227753762256
<awang>
Uh
<awang>
iTerm2 weirdness
<awang>
Don't mind that
<awang>
Bornholio: What LR-89 config are you using?
<Bornholio>
I would expect .9^3 failure to ignite chance per launch (~73%), the initial one
<awang>
Yeah, looks like that
<Bornholio>
lr43-05 or whatever it is to start
<awang>
Hmmm
<awang>
One possibility I can think of is that number of ignitions may be incremented early
<awang>
Well
<awang>
Actually
<awang>
What counts as prelaunch again?
<Bornholio>
is there a chance its double rolling it?
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<awang>
Maybe?
<awang>
It's only supposed to roll when transitioning from not ignited to ignited
<awang>
And the additional penalties are only supposed to take place if you're not in prelaunch
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<awang>
The other thing I can think of is that there's a call to GetInitialFlightData(), not GetFlightData()
<awang>
So wondering if it's effectively treating your flight data as 0
<Bornholio>
I suppose i better start taking real statistics not just hunch time
<soundnfury>
awang: maybe Initial is "data you had when you rolled out / build it"?
<awang>
soundnfury: I have no clue
<awang>
I'm not familiar enough with the codebase
<soundnfury>
for the record, I also feel there are too many ignition failures
<awang>
There's no comment on the method
<awang>
It's also only used for ignition failures
<awang>
I'm going to compile a dll with some additional logging
<soundnfury>
my mid-game engines (things like AJ10-104 and Model8096-39) are failing with full data
<soundnfury>
which given that apart from ignition failures they basically _never_ fail, yeah there's probably something wrong there
<Bornholio>
i'll spam 40 launches with a triple
<awang>
Bornholio: Hold on, DLL should be available momentarily
<soundnfury>
awang: nitpick: "momentarily" means "for a moment", not "in a moment"
<Bornholio>
^nitpicker
<awang>
soundnfury: Do you want me to help you figure out this TF issue or not :P
<soundnfury>
I want you to figure it out, but I cba to help :P
<awang>
cba?
<soundnfury>
Can't Be Arsed ;)
<ProjectThoth>
I have to hop away from the computer for a bit, but would something that adopted a reentry profile like the DC-X be easier to design from a loading standpoint - i.e., reentering nose first so that most of the load paths are identical to what would be seen during a normal launch - over a horizontal entry like BFR/ITS?
<ProjectThoth>
I would assume that that was one of the prime movers behind adopting a nose-first entry profile.
<awang>
soundnfury: Ah, fair enough
<soundnfury>
ProjectThoth: it may be that the hypersonic aerodynamics is just easier
<awang>
It should say in the log if ignition calculations are being carried out
<awang>
And if so, the flight data value it's using
<awang>
And if additional multipliers are being applied, then those multipliers are output too
<awang>
I think
<awang>
Wonder why this isn't registered to an OnIgnition event
<awang>
Assuming such a thing exists
<SRBuchanan>
With nose-in entries you can have some issues with high terminal velocity and too much stability - turning around to land engines-first can be an issue.