<Slaintemaith>
Really thinking I might wait for 1.3.1. This is tedious.
<Starwaster>
what's the trouble
<Slaintemaith>
FASA issues.
<Slaintemaith>
More issues than National Geographic.
<Slaintemaith>
And depending on the version of MechJeb, a new set of issues.
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<Bornholio>
kopernicus 1.3.1-6 is out, hopefully fixes the ocean thing
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<duckie>
can anyone point me to where I can find Kerbal Construction Time log files? I keep getting an error but don't know where to find out what the error is
<duckie>
found it. i guess I thought "ksp.log" was too obvious
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<duckie>
"Exception loading ScenarioModule KerbalConstructionTimeData: System.MissingMethodException: Method not found: 'MagiCore.MathParsing.ParseMath'." I guess I need to re-install MagiCore?
<duckie>
ayyyy look at me troubleshooting and fixing my own problems
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<Bornholio>
missing magicore likely
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<NathanKell>
o/
<Qboid>
NathanKell: Mike` left a message for you in #RO [14.02.2018 17:10:41]: "no, p'a'p locked the formulas i think. Which might not be the worst idea seeing as they should hardly change and those giant sheets are a bit scary in general. :)"
<Bornholio>
hi nathan
<duckie>
nah, magicore was installed, just improperly, i guess. i removed it and reinstalled it with ckan
<Bornholio>
and it works meow? excellent
<duckie>
yup! ship manifest is acting strange, tho. gotta fix that
<Bornholio>
sxt continued has update to 1.0.3.21
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<Bornholio>
probus your on?
<Bornholio>
!tell probus still have ocean problem, can you tell me your Scattere version. Have seen some scaled space calls possibly destroying textures, that may be the ocean disappearing reason. there are some ocean rework stuff in recent scatterer commits also
<Qboid>
Bornholio: I'll redirect this as soon as they are around.
<Pap>
o/
<Bornholio>
Hi pap
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<Pap>
Hey Bornholio how goes it?
<Bornholio>
busy
<Pap>
I can relate
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<Bornholio>
valetines dinner then back to work .sigh
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<Pap>
ugh
<Bornholio>
spacex drags heels for two months then says yes we want one, you have 45 days.
<Bornholio>
its like they were busy with something....
<duckie>
wait, what do they want that you have 45 days to make?
<NathanKell>
It looks like it's just putting in a MODULE where one was lacking
<NathanKell>
did there used to be one?
<Bornholio>
PhineasFreak told me that number for origMass was wrong
<Bornholio>
when i made the fix a few months back
<NathanKell>
ah
<NathanKell>
then huh
<Bornholio>
.shrug
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<NathanKell>
ok, pinged
<Bornholio>
no biggy, just wasn't sure what the best way to look for that confirmation was
<NathanKell>
:)
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<Bornholio>
can you drop something in the ocean NathanKell|twitch
<NathanKell|Twitch>
I'm on old kopernicus
<NathanKell|Twitch>
and I splashed down fine earlier in career with no mod changes
<Bornholio>
k, maybe it is scatterer, old+old works, new+new works , must be combo of old+new or New+old
<Bornholio>
duckie , satellite transporter hardware is all i can detail, we aren't making it directly for X
<duckie>
neat
<duckie>
i'm halfway through my engineering degree. hopefully i'll get to throw things at the sky soon
<duckie>
aaaaand ship manifest is fixed
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<NathanKell>
heh whoops forgot to reset nick
<ProjectThoth>
NathanKell: I stared at a blank Twitch screen for 12 hours in desperation.
<NathanKell>
>.>
<lamont>
keep refreshing, no luck...
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<schnobs>
Hmmm. Would silent tooling be an option, like, part cost gradually decreasing over the first n uses or somesuch?
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<Probus>
o/
<Qboid>
Probus: Bornholio left a message for you in #RO [15.02.2018 02:48:30]: "still have ocean problem, can you tell me your Scattere version. Have seen some scaled space calls possibly destroying textures, that may be the ocean disappearing reason. there are some ocean rework stuff in recent scatterer commits also"
<Probus>
!tell Bornholio I am not using scatterer. I will keep my eyes open for error messages.
<Qboid>
Probus: I'll redirect this as soon as they are around.
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<leudaimon>
o/
<Probus>
\o
<leudaimon>
returning from the dead after months... just saw that things are advancing in RP-0!
<Probus>
Yessir
<Probus>
We are testing 1.3.1
<leudaimon>
yeah... I downloaded it yesterday night! it
<leudaimon>
oops
<leudaimon>
it's working neatly
<Pap>
o/
<leudaimon>
hey Pap!
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<BadRocketsCo>
Hullo!
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<leudaimon>
btw, anybody know what is the issue with oceans? they are visible, but actually do not exist for me... crafts (even with parachute) totally ignore sea surface and go all the way to the bottom
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<awang>
leudaimon: Other people have been having that same issue. Apparently it might be some interaction between scatterer/Kopernicus?
<awang>
Kopernicus 1.3.1-3 + scatterer 0.0320b works, I think
<awang>
1.3.1-5 doesn't
<awang>
Apparently 1.3.1-6 was just released? idk if it fixes it
<awang>
I'm stil on 1.3.1-3, and haven't actually played seriously in a while, so idk if the new Kopernicus fixes things
<leudaimon>
hm, I think I was using 0.0324, I changed it back to 0.0320b but didn't test yet
<awang>
Oh, there's a new scatterer release?
<leudaimon>
yep
<leudaimon>
but not compatible with RSSVE afaik
<awang>
Hmmm
<leudaimon>
actually, it's not that bad... just very sudden transitions
<awang>
Sudden transitions between what?
<leudaimon>
atm to space
<leudaimon>
I saw in the golden spreadsheet I should use the previous version, will see how it works when I get home
<awang>
I see
<awang>
I should really get around to updating things eventually
<awang>
Seems I'm missing out on fun things
<leudaimon>
it's hard to keep up
<awang>
Indeed
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<Pap>
o/
<Pap>
Hey leudaimon
<Pap>
Hey awang
<Pap>
awang: I am working through the RO PR's, I am going to be posting some comments on them, do you get notifications when I do?
<soundnfury>
awang: it's not a scatterer thing, I don't have scatterer and my oceans are disappeared entirely (except from space)
<Pap>
soundnfury: That is good! More places to explore!
<Pap>
Is the Marianas trench represented?
<soundnfury>
wxD
<soundnfury>
s/w//
<Qboid>
soundnfury meant to say: xD
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<Pap>
Alright, I pushed a bunch of PR's to RO and RP-1
<Pap>
awang, Bornholio Can you check to see what else is pending?
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<BadInternetCo>
Helloo!
<Mike`>
Pap: why did you close the bluedog-PR? :(
<Pap>
Uh-oh Mike` What did I do wrong?
<Mike`>
err.. it was closed instead of merged? :)
<Pap>
Oh, I see what happned, I read that it changed on the spreadsheet and thought it didn't need to be merged
<Pap>
I'll merge it and then it will still be fine when we load from the spreadsheet Soon (TM)
<Mike`>
ah okay, thanks :)
<Pap>
Fixed
<Mike`>
spreadsheet just fixed the RP-0 side but RO still needs that merge, correct? :)
<Mike`>
thanks
<BadInternetCo>
I wondered. I just changed to the unofficial RP-1 as I heard someone call it, heh
<BadInternetCo>
Is there a changelog for that anywhere?
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<Starwaster>
how many people here using lamont PEG? (MJ2)
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<awang>
Pap: No, I don't have any notifications
<awang>
I think I only get notifications on my PRs
<awang>
And those I subscribe to
<awang>
soundnfury: Oh, ok. Guess that's good news?
<awang>
Pap: What do you mean by what else is pending?
<awang>
Pap: Also, looks like something got merged to RO master instead of dev?
<awang>
Same with RP-0 master/Developmental?
<awang>
!tell schnobs Got to try out the "tool everything" button yet?
<Qboid>
awang: I'll redirect this as soon as they are around.
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<leudaimon>
o/ Pap! I left just before you sent the message...
<Pap>
No worry leudaimon
<Pap>
Are you still in the Czech Republic (is that even where you went?)
<leudaimon>
yep... I'll be here at least until june
<Theysen>
wb Pap o/
<leudaimon>
just managed to get a new notebook and install RP-0... things look neat
<leudaimon>
I wonder if anyone managed to fix proc. avionics? I was discussing with people about how to have it working better before I disappeared
<Pap>
leudaimon: I haven't seen any PR's about it, but I am very much out of the loop as well
<Theysen>
no proc avionics didn't see anything, from what I hear of some users is that they don't even use it at all
<Theysen>
because it's just another ugly proc tank as well
<Theysen>
and because it has issues, as leudaimon mentioned
<leudaimon>
I see... yeah, iirc there are some issues with the way rsparkyc set it up, with the weight/cost trade-off not working correctly regardless of the configs
<leudaimon>
especially the utilization slider
<awang>
leudaimon: What's wrong with proc avionics?
<awang>
I've been meaning to take a look for a bit though
<awang>
Although TF seems to be somewhat more pressing
<awang>
I know about some utilization slider funkiness, but idk if it's the same as what you're thinking of
<leudaimon>
iirc, you get the chapest at high utilization
<leudaimon>
the trade-off only holds up to some point, and then it reverses... which shouldn't happen
<awang>
leudaimon: ...That's new o_O
<leudaimon>
maybe it was fixed in the last 3 months I've been away, but I didn't find any PRs
<awang>
I never noticed anything like that
<awang>
You're talking about cost per ton controlled, or something like that?
<awang>
Or cost per ton of avionics?
<awang>
Or both?
<leudaimon>
I remember that for some upper stage configs keeping 120% was cheaper than lower utilization... iirc we figured out that the cost of the "tank" was independent of the trade-off, so that a large part would be expensive, even at low utilization
<awang>
Hmmm
<leudaimon>
I don't know if I'll be able to reproduce in the initial proc avionics, let me see
<awang>
Pretty sure the reason I've never run into this is because mass has been the limiting factor for most of my launches, so I've always been pushing 200% utilization as much as possible
<awang>
Interesting issue, tough
<awang>
s/tough/though
<Qboid>
awang meant to say: Interesting issue, though
<leudaimon>
awang: if you get the initial avionics part, and set it to some tonnage and vary the size, you will see that the minimum price is at around 37.5% utilization...
<leudaimon>
there will always be this turning point, and the position will depend on the configs...
<leudaimon>
so for some upper stages it was above 100%, which is kind of cheaty
<awang>
Hmmm
<leudaimon>
I remember discussing with people that it would maybe be good to change this system for something simpler (even without the utilization slider)...
<leudaimon>
at least in a first moment
<awang>
Now that I think about it, I think I remember seeing something like that
<awang>
I mean, it's arguably realistic, isn't it?
<awang>
high utilizations require fancy electronics, which drive up costs
<awang>
Lower utilizations allow less expensive/fancy electronics, which can lower costs
<leudaimon>
that's the intention...
<awang>
Too low utilization means you have a ton of wasted space, so the cost of the container/internal support structure is higher relative to the cost of the electronics
<awang>
So it sort of makes sense?
<awang>
The changing inflection point might not, though
<leudaimon>
yeah, but the position of this inflection is totally contingent on the config, and I really have no idea how it's defined
<leudaimon>
you can't define it in configs
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<awang>
Yeah, that makes sense
<leudaimon>
I'm not versed enough to understand the code... has rpaskyc been around lately?
<awang>
!seen rsparkyc
<awang>
;seen rsparkyc
<Qboid>
awang: I haven't seen the user rsparkyc yet.
<awang>
Apparently not?
<awang>
Last time he was on according to my logs was 2017-Nov-1
<leudaimon>
hm, yeah... not sure how to solve it then
<leudaimon>
because I tried to balance the configs, but assuming 100% utilization and hoping the system would itself be balanced for other utilizations
<leudaimon>
but it created these issues
<awang>
Probably need to muck around in the source code or something
<awang>
idk how costs are calculated
<leudaimon>
yeah, me neither... all I know is what is configurable
<awang>
egg: I'll see if I can look sometime this weekend or something
<awang>
Er
<awang>
That was meant to be a general statement
<awang>
Not specifically for egg
<leudaimon>
haha
<leudaimon>
nice!
<awang>
:P
<awang>
IRC confusion is the best
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<egg>
awang: egg!
<awang>
!gge :gnawa
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<leudaimon>
is there any UI showing that you have untooled parts in your craft?
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<schnobs>
yes. Looks like a green "f" down on the toolbar.
<Qboid>
schnobs: awang left a message for you in #RO [15.02.2018 18:11:56]: "Got to try out the "tool everything" button yet?"
<schnobs>
awang: the "tool everything" button isn't there.
<Mike`>
proc avionics is great.
<Mike`>
i hate non proc avionics, at least the round ones for rockets
<schnobs>
IMO they're fine, most of the time.
<schnobs>
The 813mm Able core is a nuisnace in terms of tweaking adjacent proc parts, but most others suit me fine most of the time.
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<leudaimon>
I don't care about appearance much... would like to have it working properly though
<BadRocketsCo>
Hullo!
<Mike`>
most of them are a nuisance, because i want to tweak the avionics to my rocket, not the rocket to my avionics :S
<Mike`>
o/
<BadRocketsCo>
Heh, I never realised JUST how little the vanguard rocket got into orbit
<BadRocketsCo>
I was very confused why I couldn't get a sputnik core into orbital dV values...
<leudaimon>
haha
<leudaimon>
yeah, Vanguard-1 is less than 2kg
<awang>
schnobs: :(
<awang>
You're using the second DLL with my attempted fix, right?
<schnobs>
yep.
<awang>
Dangit
<schnobs>
Don't rate it as vitaly important though.
<awang>
It's not important, just fast
<awang>
In theory, at least
<schnobs>
My last comment was because I feel that the toling idea is being taken a wee bit too far.
<awang>
You still have a point though
<awang>
Hmmm
<schnobs>
I'm still doing sounding rockets, figuring out what will work. the tradeoff is either to tool everything (at significant cost, 5-10k funds for a sounding rocket, or to live with 6-month construction times.
<awang>
I'm confused
<awang>
There's something else in the same function, also creating a button
<awang>
In the same way I'm trying to create a button
<awang>
But apparently my button isn't showing
<awang>
schnobs: Maybe there should be a significant cost penalty for untooled parts, but the time penalty shouldn't be that bad?
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<awang>
And there should be a one-time time penalty for setting up tooling?
<schnobs>
Isn't time a function of cost?
<schnobs>
Quite generally, RP-1 demands even more prior knowledge than RP-0 did.
<awang>
It is, but I guess that something can be done to ignore tooling cost
<awang>
And have tooling factor directly into cost
<awang>
But yeah, the new player experience for RP-1 is wanting in quite a few ways
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<schnobs>
I haven't been around much for over a year, I guess it's been discussed a lot already. The upshot of the current system is that experimenting becomes costly -- I guess you could ultimately paint yourself into a corner.
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<leudaimon>
what about simulations schnobs?
<schnobs>
They don't tell me what kind of contract will pop up in the near future.
<schnobs>
I've made a rocket that seemed generous at the time (two launches ago), now turns out to be too small. On the next playthrough, I will take that into account, of course...
<BadRocketsCo>
If in doubt-R7 family.
<schnobs>
Oh yeah, that's another gripe. I gather it would take some special effort to have a R7-capable launchpad for your first satelite.
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<BadRocketsCo>
Yeah..
<schnobs>
A map of contracts would be useful, too, so one can look ahead and plan for future funding that's not yet visible in mission control.
<BadRocketsCo>
I'm playing with the newest RP0 right now aswell and I haven't really had a hard time just yet
<BadRocketsCo>
Currently building a orbital rocket
<BadRocketsCo>
Unless I am missing something
<awang>
schnobs: Wait, it doesn't take some special effort to have a R7-capable launchpad early on?
<awang>
Isn't the R7 really really heavy?
<awang>
Like 200+ tons heavy?
<awang>
How did you get that before your first orbital satellite?
<schnobs>
awang: you found a negation that wasn't there. I said it would take some special effort, *not* that it's easy.
<awang>
schnobs: Derp, you're right
<awang>
I read "I'd rather it owuld take some special effort to have a R7-capable launchpad for your first satellite"
<awang>
I can't read, apparently
<schnobs>
:)
<schnobs>
It kinda-sorta makes sense: with 300t and US hardware, you could possibly make jupiter. Can't have that.
<schnobs>
I said that a few days ago already, it would be cool if RP-0 allowed one to make his own way into space, allowing for alternate history and stuff.
<awang>
Impressive!
<awang>
Yeah, probably will need quite a bit more work to go for alternate history, given that everything currently present is based on real-life things
<awang>
Probably needs ferram's proc engines at the very least
<BadRocketsCo>
Would be really nice to have tiny engines to be used on first stages, kind of like the Black Arrow
<BadRocketsCo>
But individual engines
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<Sarbian>
lamont: I found how to find the unwanted Mun intercepts
<lamont>
cool!
<Sarbian>
I need to clean it up before I integrate it in the code. So not tonight since it s late here
<lamont>
yeah man no worries
<lamont>
but that’s cool
<egg>
meow
<egg>
lamont: how goes the calling of the lamont endpoints
<lamont>
i still wonder if some of the other issues might be due to not understanding how to use Levenbug-Marquardt properly so it might not clear up evertyhing, but it’ll expose those problems as something else...
<lamont>
i haven’t actually called any of the endpoints, i need to poke you more on high level what i’m going to need to call and how i’m going to need to call it to get what i need
<awang>
!wpn -add:wpn endpoint
<Qboid>
awang: Weapon added!
<schnobs>
awang: sorry, was away.
<schnobs>
IMO, the "we need a bigger booster" approach isn't inherently unrealistic.
<schnobs>
That shuttle I posted works well with RSS & FAR -- with a 0.9 radiation factor for wings and stuff, parts reach an equilibrum around 1000K during reentry. Lasts 40 minutes, though.
<schnobs>
First stage recovery, not so much.
<schnobs>
No credible amount of parachute would work, and retro-SRBs easily come to 1/4 of the stage's dry mass.
<awang>
schnobs: I mean, it was almost realistic-ish? Nova, Sea Dragon, etc.
<awang>
What's the default radiation factor?
<awang>
40 minute reentry sounds like what soundnfury had to go through with his spaceplanes
<schnobs>
For Wings, 0.9 (works); for control surfaces, 0.25 (poof).
<schnobs>
What I imagine to be problematic in IRL would be air condition for the crew compartment.
<schnobs>
maybe with a tm of water to boil off...
<schnobs>
*ton
<schnobs>
or what was it?
<schnobs>
s/tm/ton
<Qboid>
schnobs meant to say: maybe with a ton of water to boil off...
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<awang>
Could the space shuttle withstand long reentries like that?
<awang>
Seems like it'd be difficult to deal with several thousand Kelvin for over half an hour like that
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<schnobs>
Well, I guess it shuld work out from a materials point of view. Remaining stable at 1000-1100K should have ben possible even with 1950s metallurgy.
<schnobs>
What bothers me is pipes, cables, and people inside.
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<Mike`>
cool, upgraded kopernicus and it seems they installed some hoverpads below KSC to prevent it to sink into the muddy ground, now hovering a hundred meters above it :s
<soundnfury>
schnobs: you can find out about future contracts from the All tab in mission control
<soundnfury>
it shows contracts that aren't unlocked yet, & what you have to do to unlock them
<leudaimon>
is there any explanation on what is the effect of training on astronauts?
<soundnfury>
I don't think it's documented, no
<soundnfury>
the effect is just "you need to be trained to be in the pod at launch"