NathanKell changed the topic of #RO to: Welcome to the discussion channel for the Realism Overhaul (meta)mod for KSP! Realism Overhaul Main Thread https://goo.gl/wH7Dzb ! RO Spreadsheet http://goo.gl/Oem3g0 ! Code of Conduct http://goo.gl/wOSv2M ! | [15:01] <soundnfury> Straight Eight Stronk (and) RP-0/1 is basically "Space Agency Spreadsheet Simulator" with a rocket-flying minigame
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<Rokker> Probus: sorry, got distracted, that's the extended nozzle XLR-11 on the back of an X-24 lifting body
<Rokker> Starman4308: not a spaceplane, unfortunately
<Starman4308> Still kind of a cool craft!
<ProjectThoth> Rokker: Link to that first one?
<Rokker> ProjectThoth: ?
<Rokker> ProjectThoth: https://i.imgur.com/UkZ65sh.jpg
<ProjectThoth> Purdy.
<Rokker> ProjectThoth: similar design to the extended nozzles attached to the X-15 XLR-11s
<ProjectThoth> Neat!
<ProjectThoth> Cool spaceplane.
<Rokker> ProjectThoth: God I hate you
<Bornholio> rokker look at my trash can on mars :P
<Rokker> Bornholio: nice
<Bornholio> 200 days apart still hit the same biome .sigh
<Rokker> Bornholio: imagine if you hit the same biome after landing an MER style
<Rokker> perfect 180 apart
<Rokker> landing it*
<Bornholio> my landings were set in stone at midway correction burns
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<Rokker> Bornholio: rip
<Rokker> Bornholio: so at the museum today I learned that the storch has been removed (at least temporarily) and there are no B-17s currently on visible display
<Bornholio> fixing time?
<Bornholio> or loaning them out
<Rokker> Bornholio: to get the display for the Memphis Belle set up
<ProjectThoth> A bunch of weird-looking forearm things with eyeballs in the center of their "hands" stole it, and something about a guy named Billy.
<ProjectThoth> Meh, so it goes.
<Bornholio> we had one that was way worse in DS wish i had pictures
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<NathanKell> o/
<Qboid> NathanKell: awang left a message for you in #RO [08.03.2018 13:53:48]: "something about whether ModuleEngineConfigs should be used for parts that represent a single config of a multi-config engine, e.g. a part that represents a specific AJ-10 config instead of the more general AJ-10-Early/Mid/etc configs. You said to use ModuleEngines instead of deleting the unused configs from ModuleEngineConfigs, but it
<Qboid> seems to me that that may result in some duplication of"
<NathanKell> awang: the issue is that our Global Engine Config system (and TestFlight) rely on ModuleEngineConfigs existing, which I forgot to mention before
<NathanKell> so yeah, probably do need it
<NathanKell> (also hi all, sorry for the radio silence)
<Bornholio> Hi Nathan
<soundnfury> \o/
<Starman4308> Hello! I don't mind at all: you've done a lot for a lot of people.
<soundnfury> how're things NK, life under some sort of control?
<NathanKell> snf: Things are ok. Saw my ex for the first time since the split, on Wednesday (to deal with the car). That went ok, which was a big relief (we're on okish terms now I think), but it was a stressful time.
<soundnfury> NathanKell: ok, glad to hear stuff isn't totally on fire. good luck with any upcoming stresses you may have
<NathanKell> Well, not sure if it counts as stress, but I'll be at GDC next week :]
<NathanKell> And thanks <3
<ProjectThoth> NathanKell: Hope it's a good trip, hugs from the eastern seaboard.
<soundnfury> well hey, you know we all ♥ you, look after yourself
<ProjectThoth> ^
<Bornholio> GDC isn't that beer fest 2018
<Bornholio> presenting anything?
<soundnfury> btw Nathan, did you see that EK has pictures now?
<NathanKell> Bornholio sadly no. A colleague is doing a machine learning talk though!
<NathanKell> And thanks everyone :)
<NathanKell> soundnfury: Ah?
<ProjectThoth> Is machine learning when I teach a Roomba how to fetch?
<NathanKell> Quite possibly.
<soundnfury> btw I wonder if people have identified my rocket naming convention this game...
<ProjectThoth> Cities in England?
<soundnfury> nope.
<NathanKell> soundnfury: Awesome!
<soundnfury> they're not cities, and it's more specific than just "England" ;)
<ProjectThoth> Authors?
<NathanKell> Knowing you it's probably "RAF cargo aircraft of 1953"
<soundnfury> NathanKell: lol
<soundnfury> maybe next time xD
<NathanKell> SEE!?
<soundnfury> ProjectThoth: nope, though I've decided to make it a rule to always have one overlapping name between one game and the next, and may well have (G.K.) Chesterton in my next game ;)
<Bornholio> hmm whats stationary altitude of mars, 25ish hours period?
<soundnfury> let's see, besides Newton and Chesterton we've got Kings Hedges, Coton, Histon, and Alconbury (that's a sounding rocket). There are also upper stages called Madingley, Milton and Waterbeach. That should be more than enough info to work it out :P
<soundnfury> Bornholio: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Areostationary_orbit says 17,032km.
<ProjectThoth> Neighbors of H. G. Wells circa 1929?
<soundnfury> nope
<soundnfury> you were closest with your first guess really
<Bornholio> looks like towns around stonehenge are from playing pendragon
<soundnfury> oh actually there's more data, my aircraft were Arbury and Hauxton.
<ferram4_> Authors with hilariously British names?
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<soundnfury> ferram4: no. They're not authors
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<ferram4> London Underground stations? :P
<soundnfury> no, but that's a good idea, I'll file that one away for future use :)
<ferram4> In the same vein, I'd also suggest NYC subway stations.
<Bornholio> the game thinks i'm landed at 8km up over Deimos
<ferram4> Mostly for the sake of having something named Houston pronounced as house-ton to annoy people.
<NathanKell> ferram4: How many Street Rockets we gonna have?
<ferram4> NathanKell, I'd drop the street/ave sort of thing for those.
<ferram4> No point. Too redundant
<NathanKell> But it's such a great progression! :P
<soundnfury> ferram4: at work all our project codenames are LIRR stations - Huntington, Medford, etc.
<ferram4> NathanKell, right, and then add "Bowling Green" or "City Hall" in there like, "wtf is this progression?!"
<ferram4> soundnfury, that's one way to keep the codenames sane.
<ProjectThoth> "Someone's brought Penn Station, we can't use that name. Also, they're charging us $25 for landing on that space."
<soundnfury> ProjectThoth: now I want to name a sounding rocket "Old Kent Road" :S
<soundnfury> though come to think of it I did once name my launch pads "Strand", "Fleet" and "Trafalgar"...
<awang> NathanKell: Welcome back!
<awang> 1.4.1 is upon us
<awang> And compiling on mac doesn't work for windows :(
<awang> NathanKell: Glad to see that things are looking up!
<awang> soundnfury: Those names are just so... British
<soundnfury> awang: ikr
<Rokker> I just had a nice early game 30 minute plane flight where I earned 15 science, the manned 10 km achievement and got to use my crappy stol attempt
<soundnfury> Rokker: nice. I just flew my 20th nigh-identical Thor-Agena satellite launch fund-grinder.
<soundnfury> (gotta do _something_ while I wait for that capsule training...)
<Rokker> soundnfury: I've discovered that the trick to planes is to get them to take off at 30 m/s
<soundnfury> heh
<Rokker> that way there isn't enough time for stuff to fuck up on the ground
<soundnfury> anyway, zzz for me now; nn all!
<Starman4308> Night SnF.
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<schnobs> good morning everyone!
<Qboid> schnobs: soundnfury left a message for you in #RO [17.03.2018 17:37:34]: "it's not an 'f', it's a £. And a spanner."
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<schnobs> anyone around with access to RP-0 1.2.2 and some time on their hands?
<schnobs> Could you please check if the Mk1 Cargo bay attachment nodes are in the right places?
<schnobs> (that's the 2m part, fitting the 2-person busines jet style cockpit)
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<schnobs> Bornholio: 2500+1800 is quite generous for making GEO from a KSC launch.
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<Bornholio> thanks for pushing Raidernick
<Bornholio> pap how do you use <color> codes correctly in descriptions?
<Bornholio> KevinStarwaster can i have a 1.3.1 DRE dll for displaying internal/skin temps in addition to the maxtemps, pretty please
<Pap> Bornholio: I honestly don't remember, but look in the contracts or the TREE-Parts.cfg for how I did it. Not near a pc or I'd look for tou
<KevinStarwaster> bornholio you mean without enabling thermal debugging?
<KevinStarwaster> (cuz that information is available by enabling thermal debugging)
<Bornholio> thank pap, thanks kevin, dang been too long
<KevinStarwaster> bornholio so you're good then?
<Bornholio> think so, testing cryo rates from issue #847
<Qboid> [#847] title: Boil-off for the new proc Tank Types are not working as intended | I tested boil-off for the 4 new tank types (SM, Tank, Tank-HP, Balloon) for LOX (I assume LH2 will be the same) and found unexpected results.... | https://github.com/KSP-RO/RP-0/issues/847
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<soundnfury> o/ Maxsimal_
<Starman4308> So, is there a manual for using Qboid? I'm loading up 1.2.2 to check that node placement thing for schnobs.
<Bornholio> Qboid?
<Starman4308> The bot.
<Bornholio> you are imagining things
<Bornholio> .smirk
<Starman4308> Well, I know he's not Friend Computer, for one.
<soundnfury> Starman4308: /msg Qboid !help
<Maxsimal_> o/ soundnfury
<Maxsimal_> Btw, did anyone guess your naming convention?
<soundnfury> nope :(
<Maxsimal_> Then my guess is RAF bases
<soundnfury> no, but that's a reasonable guess (and a good idea for the future ;)
<Maxsimal_> any new word on RIS? Saw NK was around.
<soundnfury> I think the only one in the list that fits is Waterbeach; RAF Waterbeach was an HCU flying Stirlings
<soundnfury> no word. Anyone shown interest in the test run?
<Starman4308> !tell schnobs I suspect the nodes on that cargo bay are a bit wonky and not necessarily pointing the right way. https://i.imgur.com/8LgX8rq.png
<Qboid> Starman4308: I'll redirect this as soon as they are around.
<Starman4308> !tell schnobs You also owe me 60,000 funds worth of unlock costs.
<Qboid> Starman4308: I'll redirect this as soon as they are around.
<Maxsimal_> really? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RAF_Alconbury There's an RAF Milton Maintenance unit too. I didn't lookt hem all up though
<soundnfury> huh, TIL
<Maxsimal_> And no, noone was interested in a test run, but I didn't spam. Maybe someone could add it to the welcome line here
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<Bornholio> doing the GPS contract is gruelling, end costs 631k, 42 days with a launch temp of 1.7 days on a pair of 150t launch pads 107T, 7k Build cost LV recovered 56k of castor boosters and now tired
<Bornholio> Need a better way to plan LAN
<Starman4308> Keep track of UT of your first launch? GPS sounds difficult.
<Bornholio> i put guide junk in the orbit bands i needed lan 0,60,120... at 55deg and launched into plane
<Starman4308> Hyperedited into place or something? I know I Hyperedited a little satellite into equatorial orbit for assistance in things like plotting interplanetary transfers.
<Bornholio> yeah i have all my upcomming planetary transfers popped in to an ecliptic band and make transfer nodes so i can see when to launch or plan for on KAC
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<wb99999999> hey guys
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<Bornholio> .wave
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<wb99999999> Born do you think I should stop waiting for a 1.3.1 release and start putting together a build for myself?
<Bornholio> yes, since you'll be waiting for a 1.4.1 release :P
<wb99999999> what?
<wb99999999> okay...I guess...
<Starman4308> Honestly, with the way 1.4.1/MH is being discussed on the forums, I'm not sure we won't be waiting for a 1.4.2 release of RO/RP-1.
<wb99999999> this make me sad
<awang> Bornholio: Might the boiloff rates be off since we're waiting for the RF newCryo stuff?
<awang> So maybe no one balanced the current things
<awang> idk, though
<Bornholio> could be, but might just be that person has a mixup on install, i haven't tested much that requires cryo over provisioning in this run
<awang> Oh, is 1.4.1/MH not getting a great reception on the forums?
<awang> Haven't been on there in a while
<Starman4308> Lots of "this is buggy as hell" reports.
<awang> Bornholio: Maybe? I never got to the point where insulation matters, so I haven't tested much either
<awang> Starman4308: Sounds like KSP to me :P
<Starman4308> Heh. One of the more egregious things I saw was "this engine's thrust vector isn't through the axial stack". Plus, I think there's one engine with 400 sec of Isp and normal-ish thrust, which breaks stock KSP balance to hell.
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<awang> Wow
<awang> Off-axis engines? Wonder how that wasn't caught
<awang> heh, sounds like they might have nabbed one of the RO engines
<Starman4308> Rushed release?
<Starman4308> Also, maybe the stock models might be worthy of incorporating into RO. Otherwise... half of KSP balance is predicated on LF/O producing about 350 sec max Isp. It's waaaaay too small for 400 sec engines.
<awang> Well, it *is* Squad after all
<awang> Incorporating stock stuff into RO should be pretty easy at this point, right?
<awang> Especially the historical ones
<awang> Since we don't need to go hunting for what engine looks the closest
<awang> Unless Squad really messed up the models
<Starman4308> At least some of them look pretty decent.
<Starman4308> (also, are you at all familiar with the Surviving Mars game? There's a water deposit in a depression I can't pipe out of and it's driving me mad)
<Starman4308> (I can't even barrel it up and transport it that way!)
<awang> I can't help you there, sorry :(
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<Starman4308> Water for in-game yeeeeears close to my planned second point of settlement and I can't pipe it up 10 meters.
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<schnobs> sounds like DF?
<Qboid> schnobs: Starman4308 left a message for you in #RO [18.03.2018 14:19:23]: "I suspect the nodes on that cargo bay are a bit wonky and not necessarily pointing the right way. https://i.imgur.com/8LgX8rq.png"
<Qboid> schnobs: Starman4308 left a message for you in #RO [18.03.2018 14:20:06]: "You also owe me 60,000 funds worth of unlock costs."
<schnobs> Starman4308: thanks.
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<Starman4308> My first attempt at this game... kinda went down that DF-y way.
<Starman4308> Second time around, I discouraged scientists, because scientists tended to be gamers who got upset when I wouldn't ship them fancy gizmos from Earth and clear out some dome space for an electronics store.
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<schnobs> So. That cargo baay nodes are broken
<schnobs> ...premature "enter"
<schnobs> ...are in the wrong place, both in master and dev.
<schnobs> Will one PR against master do?
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<Bornholio> no but it will later be merged
<schnobs> I can as well make a second PR if that helps matters.
<Bornholio> i'd just dev/development PR it
<Rokker> Starman4308: surviving mars?
<schnobs> I had already submitted against master. Now there's two, I hope that's fine.
<Rokker> Starman4308: im planning to really start a game after i finish off this hoi4 playthrough
<schnobs> so that's kind of like Tropico? In Spaaace?
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<Slaintemaith> So is there a spreadsheet for all the things one must track down to get RSS/RO working in 1.3.1?
<Slaintemaith> I'm guessing Principia is RSS/RO reborn?
<Bornholio> no its N-Body physics
<schnobs> Principia is true n-body physics (forget about "Sphere of Influence")
<Slaintemaith> Guess I'm not seeing the RSS/RO part of the spreadsheet, then.
<Slaintemaith> If for no other reason than those two mods don't show up on it. =)
<schnobs> Check the fourth tab, "Bornholios Install Order"
<Slaintemaith> Oh. Duh. Yes, I see it now.
<Slaintemaith> And thanks. =)
<Slaintemaith> Is there a 'preferred renderer' for 1.3.1.? Dx11? 12? OpenGL?
<Bornholio> I use Dx11, NK uses DX9, sometimes RSSVE is finicky, and there is a .cfg fix. Don't think it matters too much assuming you have enough memory
<Slaintemaith> Memory I have in spades.
<Bornholio> default to DX9 then
<egg|zzz|egg> Slaintemaith: also principia has releases every new moon
<egg|zzz|egg> the last one being yesterday
<egg|zzz|egg> now with 1.4.1 support!
<awang> Now we just have to wait for the rest of RO/RP-0 to catch up
<awang> ...What is that new jet engine sound
<schnobs> Don't have 1.4 yet, never heard it myself. people on the forum don't seem to like it, though.
<wb99999999> I don't like the new parts added in MH
<wb99999999> they have really screwed the style
<Bornholio> tankbutts suck
<wb99999999> the new stuff looks too different from the old stock parts
<awang> At least they made the tankbutts optional?
<wb99999999> right...but why don't make ALL of them optional?
<schnobs> That's the unique selling point of the new F-1 act-a-like. Otherwise it's inferior to the Mainsail.
<awang> Who knows
<schnobs> That jet engine sounds appropriate for a RC plane. Electrical ducted fan kind of thing.
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<schnobs> Someone, at some time, put great effort into coming up with lots of avionics units.
<schnobs> The good news is that these cover a lot of diameters.
<schnobs> What I don't like is how they're very specifically tailored to the masses of their supposed LVs.
<Bornholio> think thats alot, look at RN's US and Russian Probes
<Bornholio> then use Proc Avionics
<Starman4308> Rokker Surviving Mars I am, indeed, playing. I suspect my patience is going against me, as I'm perfectly willing to play for sols and sols at regular time speed.
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<Slaintemaith> Bornholio: 404 for RSSVE 1.3.1 link.
<schnobs> Bornholio: will I step on anyones toes if I crank up the avionics dependent on tech level, rather than suggested use?
<schnobs> (Haven't double-checked with the tree yet, but IIRC many of them come late enough that things should be pretty lax)
<Slaintemaith> (Probably because it looks like the master is committed to 1.3.1)
<Qboid> [#10] title: RSSVE 1.3.1 RC-1 | | https://github.com/PhineasFreak/RSSVE/issues/10
<Slaintemaith> =)
<Slaintemaith> Now I get to double click and see if I borked anything.
<Slaintemaith> I was at least clever enough to do it in phases so that if I did, I know where to roll back.
<Slaintemaith> Crash. =(
<Bornholio> on line two :P
<Slaintemaith> Keeps dropping dead loading some FASA parts that loaded fine before.
<Bornholio> unless you double installed FASA i doubt that its the cause, maybe the last thing to load before crashe
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<Slaintemaith> Mebbe.
<Slaintemaith> Crash log isn't useful./
<Slaintemaith> Narrowing... It's either the visual things, or RO/RP-0 itself.
<Slaintemaith> Starting with visual things because: important!
<Slaintemaith> Visuals work...
<Slaintemaith> So...
<Slaintemaith> It's the mod itself.
<Slaintemaith> "What I came here for," in fact.
<Bornholio> did you get the extra dll's changed out etc.
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<Slaintemaith> I failed to see that mentioned on the spreadsheet--although I did follow the notes on the right hand side fastidiously.
<Bornholio> just a sec, the wiki didn't take my 1.3.1 updates
<Bornholio> its showing the 1.2 info
<Slaintemaith> The problem lives in RO, btw. I can install everything else and it dies after I install that.
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<Bornholio> using RO Master or Dev Branch
<Slaintemaith> Whatever was linked on the spreadsheet.
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<Slaintemaith> So dev, it appears.
<Bornholio> hmm unless something in today's changes crashes it not sure why
<Slaintemaith> Because "me," that's why.
<Bornholio> let me see your output_log.txt or your log
<Slaintemaith> Where to paste it? Surely not here.
<Bornholio> dropbox the whole file
<Bornholio> its too big for pastebin etc
<Slaintemaith> sec.
<Rokker> Bornholio: woohoo, j85, now I can make anti insurgent cessnas
<Bornholio> you have multiple MM dlls... still looking though
<Slaintemaith> That's true. Some of the instructions say to install 'x.' So I do. Nothing said 'weed out 'x' MM dll'
<Slaintemaith> I didn't know that was a thing. Or common knowledge.
<Rokker> pew pe2
<Rokker> pew
<Bornholio> yeah i hate that people include MM in their installs. Just leads to intslling things thatt aren't up to date
<Slaintemaith> I presume one eliminates the earlier MM.dlls?
<Rokker> I guess I can also us the J85 for an llrv
<Slaintemaith> Not that it mattered. Still crashed after getting rid of the legacy MMs.
<Bornholio> rokker cessna silly boi
<Bornholio> i'll have to load the new changes to see if thats it
<Bornholio> let me load a RO folder for you to try
<Slaintemaith> Alrighty.
<Slaintemaith> Testing...
<Slaintemaith> ...or blindly loading the nastiest virus you could think to upload. Whichever. =)
<Slaintemaith> Nope.
<Slaintemaith> There are times when I really, really, really, really, really, really, really hate this game.
<Slaintemaith> I'll just start over from scratch.
<Slaintemaith> Tomorrow.
<Slaintemaith> Or maybe next month.
<Slaintemaith> But thanks for the attempt.
<Bornholio> its usually Real fuels that messes things up
<schnobs> !tell awang: FWIW, I'm getting the map rotating in the background when I have capcom open. no principia involved.
<Qboid> schnobs: I'll redirect this as soon as they are around.
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<Bornholio> !tell Slaintemaith make sure you have https://github.com/KSP-RO/RP-0/issues/749 RF dll, i have a missmatch between what i have and yours
<Qboid> Bornholio: I'll redirect this as soon as they are around.
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<Rokker> Bornholio: because im lazy, im using spoiler based roll control on one of my aircraft...
<Rokker> rather than trying to make procedural wings look good
<Bornholio> i understand, pics :P
<Rokker> Bornholio: i mean more realistically, im just throwing some standard KSP control surfaces inside of the wings and fuel tanks and engines so that they pop out
<Rokker> like this but im gonnaa move them inside a bit https://snag.gy/1sjJuY.jpg
<Bornholio> one thing from stock i'd rather it was easier to make airbrakes out of my surfaces
<Rokker> aye
<Bornholio> I did that all the time in stock
<Bornholio> well kinda stock
<Rokker> did you know that the P-61 used in-wing spoilers for roll control?
<Bornholio> nope
<Rokker> such a strange concept
<Rokker> it had ailerons as well, but thats less interesting than the roll spoilers so meh
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<Rokker> Bornholio: called em spoilerons
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<Bornholio> there is an old AF joke in there but i fergit
<Rokker> Bornholio: well it looks like shes gonna top out at around 200 m/s full... wish me luck, im flyin her to white sands
<Bornholio> you have a landing field there?
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<Rokker> Bornholio: hold on... i can't seem to load my plane with crew... they shouldn't still be restinf
<Rokker> resting
<Bornholio> have mission training again?
<Bornholio> If your flying lots of planes you might want to look at the config and lower the time
<Rokker> Bornholio: it says they are available for the next mission
<Bornholio> they need to be available, proficient and mission trained :/
<Rokker> ...
<Rokker> what do you mean proficient and mission trained
<Bornholio> proficieny training in the cockpit, which takes a long time to decay, and mission trained which is removed after each mission
<Rokker> seems a bit overly complex but ok
Majiir is now known as Snoozee
<KevinStarwaster> is there any version of c# where 'out string string-variable' works as a parameter instead of declaring 'string-variable' before using it as a parameter
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<KevinStarwaster> it's C# 7
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<Rokker> Bornholio: you know how i love complaining about the crappy gears?
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<Bornholio> yes?
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<Rokker> Bornholio: i just crashed 5 times, none of them over a descent rate of 1 m/s, finally made a survivable landing where i lost my cowling and one intake
<Bornholio> yes anything ground sucks
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<Bornholio> have you tried increasing the damper/spring force on them
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<Rokker> Bornholio: idk what to increase and decrease cause every time i touch it it seems to get worse
<Rokker> its annoying because i can remember a time when aircraft were landable
<ProjectThoth> Oh, I'm not the only one that's having landing gear issues!
<ProjectThoth> Yay!
<Rokker> and that was many updates ago
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