NathanKell changed the topic of #RO to: Welcome to the discussion channel for the Realism Overhaul (meta)mod for KSP! Realism Overhaul Main Thread https://goo.gl/wH7Dzb ! RO Spreadsheet http://goo.gl/Oem3g0 ! Code of Conduct http://goo.gl/wOSv2M ! | [15:01] <soundnfury> Straight Eight Stronk (and) RP-0/1 is basically "Space Agency Spreadsheet Simulator" with a rocket-flying minigame
<Bornholio>
spacex alunch in 5 hours
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<awang>
I'd volunteer for merging/pushing if I knew more about rockets
<awang>
I can really just code
<Pap>
Alas Bornholio I do not have the authorirt
<Pap>
*authorirty
<Bornholio>
That sounds like my opposite awangs, we could combine into a reviewer :P
<Bornholio>
bummer pap Can't imagine looking at the PR/Issue list is anything but demoralizing
<Pap>
I can push and merge some stuff, but I don't even have a working install to test
<Pap>
If someone wants to test, I can push
<Bornholio>
I was gettign ready to setup all the NF propulsion stuff then i look in this new fangled sheet and magically it is here .sigh
<awang>
Bornholio: I think you'll end up with more of the work though
<awang>
RO/RP-0 sees a lot more rocket-related PRs than code-related PRs
<Qboid>
[#831] title: Move radial crossfeed patches to independent file | Changes can't be made directly to TREE-Parts.cfg, since it's generated... | https://github.com/KSP-RO/RP-0/issues/831
<Bornholio>
I think its a good idea to do this but unless its doable we should close it maybe push it back to issue
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<awang>
Bornholio: I think I already talked to Pap about that
<awang>
He said no, because the spreadsheet doesn't currently track that info
<awang>
It could, in theory, if another column were added, but it probably isn't worth it for a change to so few parts
<Bornholio>
how about a post tree patch?
<awang>
Isn't that what the PR is doing?
<awang>
Moving the decoupler stuff from TREE-Parts.cfg to a separate patch
<awang>
I delete the stuff from TREE-Parts because I put it there in the first place
<awang>
Before I knew that those changes will be overwritten
<awang>
s/delete/deleted
<Bornholio>
but you can't manually modify the Tree.cfg
<Qboid>
awang meant to say: I deleted the stuff from TREE-Parts because I put it there in the first place
<Pap>
Are there parts that get this tacked on, or is it a global unlock?
<awang>
Pap: Just the radial decouplers
<awang>
Stack decouplers have crossfeed unlocked from the beginning, I think
<awang>
Assuming I understood you right
<Pap>
Ah and we don't want to allow that, makes sense
<Pap>
That should be handled by the sheet
<Pap>
However, a new ModuleTag should be included
<awang>
Where would that go in the sheet?
<awang>
And new ModuleTag? Like ModuleTagPressureFed?
<awang>
Or whatever those are called?
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<Starman4308>
Ever since starting to use Saturn-based HLVs (with the most recent one bordering on SHLV), I've been struck by just how far away I can see my discarded first stages.
<Starman4308>
Kilometers downrange from it and you can still see those monsters.
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<Pap>
awang: Yes, we would have to expand the sheet, but it might be silly for what, like 5 parts that are radial decouplers?
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<BadRocketsCo>
Hulloo
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<Maxsimal>
They're still in limbo on what launch vehicle they'd be using with this monster though
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<awang>
Pap: Yeah, adding something new to the sheet might be somewhat overkill for so few parts
<awang>
I thought that's what you said earlier, but I can't seem to find it in my logs
<Pap>
awang: I think you should create a simple .CFG file and put it in the Tree folder. Easiest answer
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<zilti>
Pap: phew, so. I just finished adding the SEP stuff to the sheet.
<zilti>
Pap: I hope it's okay that I declared the "fallen Kerbonaut" as "RP0conf true"
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<Pap>
zilti: What is that, is that a plaque that is in SEP like they put on the Moon?
<zilti>
Pap: yes, that small figurine with the plaque
<Pap>
zilti: Very cool
<awang>
Pap: Yep, that's what the PR that Bornholio linked above does
<awang>
Or at least that's what I think it does
<awang>
Just a matter of someone merging it now
<awang>
Alternatively, we can continue working on soundnfury's Python thing
<awang>
Although now that I think about it I'm not entirely sure how that would work...
<Pap>
awang: I don't think the python idea will work. It will take a massive amount of man hours to move things over and I do not think we have that
<zilti>
"Python thing"? So, using a dedicated tool instead of Google spreadsheet?
<Pap>
awang: What is the PR about the LINQs?
<Pap>
zilti: Yes, the thought was that it would be better controlled using something like a python file controlled through Github
<Pap>
The issue with it is that it requires massive amounts of time and effort to move all 3800+ parts to that format
<zilti>
Shouldn't that be a case for a short script? ^^
<zilti>
Oh my... That great moment when you have a video capturing software in production and get a mail with a log file and the comment "It stopped recording after 40 minutes"...
<zilti>
My boss will be thrilled tomorrow...
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<zilti>
Though I suspect that it was simply that the harddisk got full
<awang>
Pap: Oh, ye of little faith :P
<awang>
I'm hoping it'll be one of those "eventually" things
<awang>
But knowing how RO/RP-0 dev works, I wouldn't be surprised if "eventually" is really really really far off
<awang>
zilti: Well, sort of. I't more about getting the spreadsheet into a version-controllable form
<awang>
Or at least that's the biggest benefit
<awang>
Python code might be more readable than spreadsheet formulas, but that probably depends on the person
<awang>
I'd personally prefer something a bit more strongly typed, but there isn't anything with anywhere near the ease of use and widespread-ness of Python
<awang>
Pap: The PR about changing LINQ stuff to Slinq?
<awang>
That was just because it seemed like an easy change that didn't really change what the code looked like, and (in theory) reduces the amount of garbage produced
<awang>
It may not be a large reduction, but I'll take any reduction where I can
<awang>
Especially where it's that easy
<awang>
The main worry is that Slinq is unmaintained, and its future is uncertain
<awang>
zilti: Well, sort of
<awang>
Thing is soundnfury wants to migrate everything by hand to try to catch redundant things as they are moved
<awang>
So a script won't really help there
<Pap>
awang: Should I push that PR, is it good to go?
<awang>
Pap: I think I wanted to wait to get more coders' opinion on it
<awang>
Agathorn is against it, I'm ambivalent
<awang>
I at least want NK's opinion
<awang>
idk
<awang>
thing is apparently not many people used slinq
<awang>
But at the same time, they're also aware of its upsides and didn't know any downsides off the top of their head
<Pap>
awang: I will leave it for now and we can wait and see
<Starwaster>
spaceplanes can have tank treads, right?
<Pap>
Maxsimal: I have had that ability for a long time. I just don't do it often because of time. I don't get to test at all right now, so I have to see what I can approve without my testing
<Pap>
Starwaster: other than the fact that it would add a ton of weight, I don't see why a Tiger Tank couldn't go orbital
<schnobs>
Starwaster: AFAIK treads are more limiting in terms of max_speed.
<schnobs>
Can probably be worked around with more (and more fancy) material, but still. Good luck going 100m/s.
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<schnobs>
Starwaster: do burning parts create heat?
<schnobs>
hmm. apparently not.
<schnobs>
Still, I've got a athmospheric entry where things heat up gently until, rather suddenly, the *internal* temperature of the cockpit increases at a horrific rate.
<schnobs>
The pod goes poof with internal >1000, skin temp=550
<schnobs>
I wonder how this can even happen.
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<Starwaster>
schnobs no
<Starwaster>
they used to but not anymore
<Starwaster>
because seriously, how can anything (aside from rocket fuel) burn with enough intensity during reentry to exceed the danger you already face with having a hole burned in your ship
<Starwaster>
burning damages the hull and lets heat into the interior
<Starwaster>
and for a few parts (lots of spaceplane parts) I made the interior have a lot less tolerance to heat
<Starwaster>
also shnobs, hypothetically, the spaceplane with treads would only have had to land on them so I didn't care about the speed
<schnobs>
how fast would it go when landing?
<schnobs>
Also, what browser are you using?
<schnobs>
I guess you want the tracks for mobility on the ground. To that end, it might be better to land on wheels or skids, then unpack the treads after the landing.
<Starwaster>
browser?
<Starwaster>
chrome? why?
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<schnobs>
video formats, too lazy to bother with youtube.
<schnobs>
Starwaster: Sorry for being such a pest... I'd really like to know what's going wrong.
<schnobs>
well, gotta run. Please leave me a tell or something.
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<Starwaster>
hmm
<Starwaster>
!tell schnobs ok well you had the wrong part selected so I can't say for sure, but that part has a low temperature tolerance until hypersonic flight is unlocked. Do you have it unlocked or is it not present in the tech tree that you're using? Might need to be fixed in RO/RP?
<Qboid>
Starwaster: I'll redirect this as soon as they are around.
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<Pap>
All RP-0 PR's have been merged into Developmental
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<Starwaster>
ouch. meant to go internal and instead clicked EVA... during ascent. During Max Q....
<Starwaster>
smeared all down the side of the launch vehicle :(
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<szyzyg>
oh hey, this channel still works!
<szyzyg>
I came here asking if there's any RO hardware that support carbon monoxide rockets or turbofans
<soundnfury>
Starwaster: are you envisaging some sort of space A-40?
<soundnfury>
szyzyg: Hullo!
<soundnfury>
I'm not aware of any CO rockets in RO. If there are, I expect they'll be in something like in Near Future Propulsion, since AFAIK there aren't any historical ones
<Starwaster>
soundnfury not particularly, I was browsing the inventory list for landing gear and thought... oh hey, tank treads! (from Kerbal Forge)
<Starwaster>
it would have worked too if it hadn't been for those meddling kids!
<awang>
szyzyg: For what it's worth, a quick grep through my GameData folder yields no interesting hits for "monoxide"
<awang>
Looks like it's present in CRP, but isn't actually used in many (most?) mods that can use it
<awang>
Nothing in RF, RO, or RP-0 either
<awang>
It's possible it's under "CO" or something like that, but that would turn up way too many hits to be practical
<szyzyg>
It's the forgotten Mars fuel ever since Zubrin started pitching Methane.
<szyzyg>
lower performance of course, but easier to make because you don't need source of hydrogen.
<soundnfury>
szyzyg: yarchive mentions that you could also conceivably run an NTR on CO; unlike CO₂ it doesn't turn oxidising when it gets hot. Doesn't quote an Isp figure though.
<szyzyg>
Also gets the nice self moderation effect that hydrogen gives
<soundnfury>
don't know about that one, do tell?
<szyzyg>
Nuclear reactors use moderators to slow down neutrons to make the core critical. Both hydrogen and carbon are used as neutron moderators. So, nuclear engine designers have tried to make it so that when the fuel flow stops it also stops the reaction.
<szyzyg>
of course, that never worked in tests
<szyzyg>
you can't use nitrogen in an NTR because it is a neutron absorber
<szyzyg>
or rather it's not idea
<szyzyg>
because obviously open cycle nuclear jets work with 80% nitrogen
<soundnfury>
is that a problem for the ammonia NTR as well?
<soundnfury>
(which iirc is the second-best for Isp after hydrogen)
<szyzyg>
Not so much a problem as something that needs to be accounted for.
<soundnfury>
I see
<szyzyg>
You know AGRs in europe will flood the reactor with nitrogen during an emergency shutdown
* soundnfury
visualises hydrogen atoms going around kickbanning neutrons for trolling
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<Probus>
soundnfury, did you see my link to the Stratolauncher?
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<leudaimon>
o/
<leudaimon>
hey Pap you closed PR rp-0#846, saying it was made by me in the spreadsheet... but that was the PR that changed the spreadsheet csv
<Qboid>
[#846] title: Update Realengines parts in the tree | I'm following the part names in RO PRs by @PhineasFreak and using the corresponding parts details from other mods for new parts. | https://github.com/KSP-RO/RP-0/issues/846
<Pap>
Lol leudaimon
<leudaimon>
I also updated the cfg, but it had the csv commit
<leudaimon>
they are separate if you want to approve only the csv changes
<leudaimon>
if you change your spreadsheet to import the csv directly, it would make the workflow even better