NathanKell changed the topic of #RO to: Welcome to the discussion channel for the Realism Overhaul (meta)mod for KSP! Realism Overhaul Main Thread https://goo.gl/wH7Dzb ! RO Spreadsheet http://goo.gl/Oem3g0 ! Code of Conduct http://goo.gl/wOSv2M ! | [15:01] <soundnfury> Straight Eight Stronk (and) RP-0/1 is basically "Space Agency Spreadsheet Simulator" with a rocket-flying minigame
<Bornholio>
he is in nihon time
<awang>
Right
<awang>
Dependencies AHHHHHHHHHHH
<awang>
Hey, what a surprise, RP-0 doesn't require any code changes
<Bornholio>
lol
<awang>
Neither does RO
<Bornholio>
you going to make a PR for those?
<awang>
Or RSS
<awang>
I think I'll wait for 1.4.1 first
<awang>
RF doesn't seem to require any code changes either
<awang>
Some build system shenanigans, but I think it's just me
<awang>
SolverEngines didn't require any code changes
<awang>
Principia does
<awang>
TestFlight does
<awang>
RSSVE does not
<awang>
RealScience does not
<awang>
KRASH does now
<awang>
s/now/not
<Qboid>
awang meant to say: KRASH does not
<awang>
Blastwave does not
<awang>
Hmm
<awang>
Seems this update is relatively good in terms of breakage
<egg>
yay
<Bornholio>
it should be, unless they hid some structural changes for new things
<awang>
No code changes for proc parts
<Bornholio>
good evening egg
<Starwaster>
you mean good for not breaking things or good AT breaking things, awang?
<awang>
Starwaster: Good for not breaking things
<awang>
At least so far
<awang>
Biggest annoyance is that UnityEngine.dll has been broken up into several smaller DLLs
<awang>
So you might need to fix references
<awang>
But that's pretty much it
<awang>
1.4.1 needs to drop already
<Starwaster>
couldn't figure out why MJ was reporting that my Delta-IV Heavy had a TWR of 7 but an acceleration of 15 m/s... I figured something had to be wrong somewhere
<Starwaster>
I forgot I had turned on the gravity hack...
<Starman4308>
Um... that might be true at the Moon... oh.
<Starman4308>
(also, you know how players of our caliber never make rookie mistakes like "forgetting to include at least a little battery on the actual lander part of your lander"?
<Starwaster>
yeah well I had turned the ravity to something like 0.25
<Bornholio>
lol right, never forgot a battery
<Starwaster>
uhm yeah starman4308, I never forgot a battery... I did have a friend of mine forget though
<Starwaster>
actually he wasn't my friend...
<Starwaster>
he was like a friend of a friend
<Starman4308>
It's true. My lander is coming down to the Martian surface and the kOS script is working perfectly and why of course I have batteries.
<Bornholio>
a shameful friend
<Starwaster>
>_>
<Starwaster>
and WOW... with REAL gravity turned on, PEG can't figure out how to get this to orbit. I KNEW something was fuxed in this design...
<Starwaster>
so what's wrong with my delta? hrmmmmm
<Starwaster>
PEG solid FAILED... it's not even letting me entertain a moment of hope here
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<egg>
Starwaster: poke lamont?
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<Rokker>
we now have footage of the center core missing the barge
<Probus>
Good video of center stage hitting the water.
<Probus>
I found out a bit ago that the boosters do not return directly over the barge but off to one side. This is because if there is a problem, the booster will hit the water instead of the barge at full speed.
<schnobs>
Makes sense. One more problem I wouldn't even have considered.
<schnobs>
How does one make a pull request towards the RP-0 tech tree?
<schnobs>
(specific issue: gemini parachutes being placed in the Early Landing node)
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<zilti>
My game ignores the water. It is rendered, but my landing capsules just continue downwards including parachute as if there was no water at all
<schnobs>
zilti: Kopernicus. IIRC you need to get back to v1.6.3 or something.
<schnobs>
sorry: water last worked in kopernicus 1.3.1-3
<schnobs>
(which, for me, broke textures on all bodies except earth & moon, though I heard there's a workaround to *that*)
<zilti>
schnobs: Ah :) I'll see what it does
<schnobs>
Crew training madness, part the umpteenth:
<schnobs>
Mission training of teh previous backup pilot expires a few days before the next LV is ready.
<schnobs>
Can't send her into a new course before the previous one has become obsolete.
<schnobs>
Trying to manually fill the cockpit brings up a list of crew rated for the kerbcan.
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<zilti>
Yeah it seems downgrading Kopernicus has the very weird effect of my engines becoming completely silent and without any plume
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<Bornholio>
Taniwha, awesome thanks for that video, had never seen a cockpit final descent loop
<BadRocketsCo>
Anyone remember how much 1 fund was irl money?
<Bornholio>
1000 in 1965
<BadRocketsCo>
Ah, thanks!
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<taniwha>
Bornholio: :)
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<awang>
taniwha: You remember much about writing the git-version script for RF?
<taniwha>
well... I didn't do the core of it of course, but I probably remember enough
<awang>
schnobs: Why would RF handle gimbals?
<awang>
schnobs: PRs to the RP-0 tech tree are edits to Pap
<awang>
Pap's spreadsheet
<awang>
With a comment saying what changed
<taniwha>
awang: what do you want to know?
<awang>
taniwha: Apparently the sed s/-/\t/ part doesn't work on macOS
<Pap>
schnobs: those parachutes were placed there on purpose
<awang>
Or maybe it's just BSD sed being stupid
<awang>
taniwha: Was wondering why sed s/-/\t/ instead of cut -f 1 -d '-'
<awang>
Skip the sed part
<schnobs>
I'd really wish there was a place to discuss RO -- less formal than opening issues, but not as one-off as IRC.
<taniwha>
awang: a dummy wrote it? :)
<taniwha>
(ie, I didn't think of that)
<schnobs>
taniwha, awang : awk for the winz :)
<awang>
taniwha: Oh
<awang>
Guess I'll make a PR for that :P
<awang>
I should see if it worked with gsed...
<awang>
schnobs: How does I awk
<taniwha>
seems to work here (just tried it in EL)
<schnobs>
In my experice, cut syntax wasn't exactly stable these last few years (difference between redhat 5 through 7)
<awang>
taniwha: Yeah, seems to be a BSD sed thing
<awang>
gsed works right
<awang>
schnobs: Really? That's kind of surprising, given it's in coreutils
<taniwha>
the -d solution is better anyway
<taniwha>
one less execution
<awang>
I thought those would have insanely high bars for breaking backwards compatibility
<taniwha>
and WAY clearer, too
<awang>
taniwha: Agreed
<awang>
Also, $() instead of `` :P
<taniwha>
yeah
<schnobs>
^ hell yes.
<schnobs>
awang, re. gimbals: starting point is that these shouldn't be part of an engine's definition, but it's how it is.
<schnobs>
I was wondering how one could *reasonably* tackle this.
<awang>
schnobs: I mean, without an "engine mount" part, why not?
<schnobs>
proper swivel mounts, as blowfish said, would be InfernalRobotics stuff.
<schnobs>
Which I guess would be not one, but several cans of worms.
<awang>
Yeah, I'd guess so
<awang>
Possibly not as friendly to more casual players too
<schnobs>
The next best thing that came to mind: treating it as a configurable item in RF.
<awang>
Don't think most people think about the thrust structure of an engine separately
<awang>
It seems sort of out of scope for RF
<schnobs>
I don't have the slightest how difficult that would be, so please treat it as question.
<awang>
Not entirely sure
<awang>
MEC overwrites things in ModuleEngines*
<awang>
Guess an analog could be made for ModuleGimbal?
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<schnobs>
Oh man. "First Orbital Flight" insists on having exactly 1 crew member on board.
<schnobs>
...at any one time before recovery, it seems.
<schnobs>
So: send two peeps to space, unboard one, finish orbit.
<schnobs>
Let the other climb out as well, for Safe Return from Orbit.
<schnobs>
It could be worse.
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<Bornholio>
[WRN 11:14:59.642] ContractConfigurator.ContractType: CONTRACT_TYPE 'SecondGenWeather': unexpected attribute 'Remember that Sun Synchronous orbits are slightly retrograde.<b><color' found, ignored.
<Bornholio>
[EXC 11:14:59.561] ArgumentException: No contract group with name 'SurfaceOutposts'
<schnobs>
Who or what expects outposts in RP-0?
<schnobs>
(I assume the issue isn't their absence, but that it throws an exception)
<Bornholio>
yeah, i might have mangled my CC, not sure how though
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<schnobs>
Hmmm. Another possibly hellish idea: would it be feasible to remove life support from most station parts and concentrate it in a single "life support module" instead?
<schnobs>
The idea is to reduce the number of partmodules, also to centralize the control in one place.
<schnobs>
Of course, the obvious downside is that you need one more part in any event.
<schnobs>
Would there be any obvious downsides? Reasons why it can't possibly work?
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<schnobs>
Would anyone happen to have a magic thrust/ISP combo that results in an engine using 1 ton/second?
<schnobs>
I guess there's a 9.81 somewhere.
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<BadRocketsCo>
Howdy
<schnobs>
heya.
<BadRocketsCo>
What's up?
<schnobs>
trying to make a life support engine, that consumes resources just like a kerbal.
<schnobs>
Just so I can pick it as a preset when making ServiceModules.
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<schnobs>
...and I get an MM error.
<schnobs>
How do I introduce a wholly new part (not copy/clone, just a new item)?
<schnobs>
%PART[LifeSupportEngine] doesn't seem to work.
<schnobs>
(also, do I need it to protect from generic RO/RP-0 catchall MM patches?)
<schnobs>
for the latter, I hope that :FINAL will do. No luck with the former, though.
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<BadRocketsCo>
Woop woop!
<BadRocketsCo>
I managed to launch a 70kg satellite on my light launcher
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<Starwaster>
so exhausting dealing with everyone feeling they have to reinvent every little bit of stock module ...
<Starwaster>
!schnobs +PART[LifeSupportEngine] and then in the body of the config you have to rename it (@name = whatever)
<Starwaster>
!tell schnobs +PART[LifeSupportEngine] and then in the body of the config you have to rename it (@name = whatever)
<Qboid>
Starwaster: I'll redirect this as soon as they are around.
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<Bornholio>
starwaster i forgot how long venus descent takes .sigh
<soundnfury>
Bornholio: go and make a cuppa :P
<Bornholio>
yeah, I did ten manned lander missions long ago, Beer must have burned out that bad thought
<soundnfury>
hmm, FASAMercuryPod shouldn't have ModuleTagEngineSolid
<Starwaster>
bornholio LOL long time
<Bornholio>
not to venusian explorers prov decouplers are burny
<Bornholio>
note
<Bornholio>
and proc
<soundnfury>
all the solids in Mercury are on other parts (retro, posi, and escape tower)
<Starwaster>
if you designed right you can cut the chute terminal part of the descent like Venerea did
<Bornholio>
yeah it was a waste to have chutes they can't deploy with max settings
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<Starman4308>
Heh. I can imagine Venus descent takes a while. Ran my first uncontrolled... I mean perfectly successful Mars descent a bit back, and I was surprised at how well it braked with just a heatshield.
<Starman4308>
Granted, it was just 1 ton, but from all I'd heard about Mars, I was expecting to need to start the propulsive retrobraking while still screaming hypersonic through the atmosphere.