ferram4 changed the topic of #RO to: Welcome to the discussion channel for the Realism Overhaul (meta)mod for KSP! Realism Overhaul Main Thread https://goo.gl/wH7Dzb ! RO Spreadsheet http://goo.gl/Oem3g0 ! Code of Conduct http://goo.gl/wOSv2M ! | Maximal & soundnfury's RP-1 Race Into Space Signup: http://bit.ly/2DEVm2i [15:01] <soundnfury> Straight Eight Stronk (and) RP-0/1 is basically "Space Agency Spreadsheet Simulator"
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<zilti> Hmm, so my clamp-o-tron ports have that option, "Multiweld"... what is it?
<ProjectThoth> Quicksave and then click it to see what happens.
<zilti> Huh. It just makes the ports disappear in a cloud of smoke. Just like the "Compress Parts" option. This doesn't seem right...
<Starman4308> Best guess is it becomes a single part, letting you shave 1 off your part count?
<zilti> Well, the two parts connected by the clamp-o-tron should get connected together, yes. But instead, the ports vanish and nothing happens
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<blowfish> evening
<Qboid> blowfish: awang left a message for you in #RO [21.03.2018 12:51:08]: "I think I compiled in release. It's the mode that VS opened up in at least, and the Debuggable attribute is empty"
<blowfish> awang: ok, just checking - I've definitely made the mistake of releasing a debug build before
<soundnfury> 'lofish
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<blowfish> okay, SolverEngines and AJE released
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<Maxsimal> o/
<Maxsimal> !tell soundnfury Saw your reply to bornholio. I'll get set up today, but probably only start playing for real tomorrow
<Qboid> Maxsimal: I'll redirect this as soon as they are around.
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<KevinStarwaster> how the HELL is anyone saying that a 1.4 reentry looks better now?
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<awang> !tell blowfish Do debug builds have significantly worse performance or something? I thought the JIT would take care of most of that or something
<Qboid> awang: I'll redirect this as soon as they are around.
<KevinStarwaster> they lack optimization
<KevinStarwaster> and perf impact depends also on hether there is debug logging which happens only in debug mode
<KevinStarwaster> o YMMV
<KevinStarwaster> so
<awang> I thought the JIT was supposed to take care of optimization
<awang> I think I remember reading somewhere that early optimizations would actually make the JIT's job harder
<awang> But yeah, debug logging is a good point
<taniwha> awang: I want to cry whenever I hear either statement about the JIT
<awang> taniwha: What statements?
<taniwha> "the JIT was supposed to take care of optimization" and "early optimizations would actually make the JIT's job harder"
<awang> taniwha: Are they horribly wrong?
<taniwha> if only in principle
<taniwha> they smack of "we don't want you to optimize your code because we want to force system upgrades"
<taniwha> particularly the latter, since optimized code can take less work to analyze
<taniwha> (you won't see as much gains from the JIT's optimizer, but that's to be expected)
<awang> taniwha: That's an interesting take on it
<awang> At least with the JVM, what I've been hearing is "give the JVM normal-ish bytecode, get good performance"
<awang> Never really thought about hardware upgrades
<awang> Although there is that one thing which says software gets slower faster than hardware gets faster
<awang> And yeah, optimized bytecode means that there's less code to analyze, but it also means that there's lost information
<awang> idk if that information would be useful, though
<awang> Now I'm curious what optimizations are possible on the C# level that the JIT can't do
<awang> I know Rust has to do its own optimizations before passing the result to LLVM to get the best performance, but that's because Rust's semantics allow optimizations that would be illegal in LLVM IR
<awang> Guess the same would be the same for the CLR?
<KevinStarwaster> taniwha JIT can magically optimize even on nearby machines that aren't even connected to each other and on wildly different architectures!
<taniwha> awang: if there actually is less information, then the "optimized" code is wrong
<taniwha> the whole point of optimization is to remove /redundant/ information
<taniwha> awang: yeah, probably
<taniwha> KevinStarwaster: that sounds about right for a Microsoft product (ad)
<awang> taniwha: That's not necessarily true
<taniwha> actually, it is
<awang> The lost information could be semantic info from the compiled-from language that doesn't exist in the compiled-to language
<awang> Unless you're talking about passes inside the compiler
<taniwha> well, ok, floating point operations might count, but doing optimizations on floating point code without context is an express nono
<awang> Which I guess might lose info in non-dead code?
<egg|zzz|egg> meow?
<awang> idk without seeing the LLVM passes
<egg|zzz|egg> somebody said floating point
<awang> And yeah, floating-point stuff is a minefield
<awang> egg|zzz|egg: Yes
<egg|zzz|egg> thou hast summoned the egg!
* awang gives egg|zzz|egg a denormalized float as a tribute
* egg|zzz|egg pets the denormal
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<soundnfury> Maxsimal: great :)
<Qboid> soundnfury: Maxsimal left a message for you in #RO [22.03.2018 10:28:20]: "Saw your reply to bornholio. I'll get set up today, but probably only start playing for real tomorrow"
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<KevinStarwaster> it should be illegal for EVA chutes to be this much fun
<KevinStarwaster> ok here's a comparison between reentry FX for the same spaceplane (OPT parts) between 1.3.1 and 1.4.1: https://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/index.php?/topic/50296-131-deadly-reentry-v762-nov-16-2017-the-ariel-edition/&do=findComment&comment=3331273
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<awang> taniwha: Hmmm
<awang> Er
<awang> Sorry, didn't mean to ping you
<awang> Didn't read what was in the input box before hitting enter
<awang> But anyways
<awang> Apparently the 2017-Aug-24 SpaceX launch caused huge hole in the ionosphere?
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<Maxsimal> soundnfury: You around? I have the mod installed and am trying to connect - either I'm not doing it right or the game isn't there
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<Bornholio> .poke
<Maxsimal> o/
<Maxsimal> but off to bed
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<Bornholio> point me at list of mods for the RIS test
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* soundnfury only just got home from work
<soundnfury> Bornholio: basically just "standard" RP-1 for 1.3.1, plus any RP-1-supported part mods, plus non-game-breaking tools, plus the RIS mod itself
<soundnfury> there's no requirement for all players to have precisely matching installs (it's not like DMP ;)
<Bornholio> but must have. TF, RT, etc
<soundnfury> oh yes
<soundnfury> as far as I'm concerned those are part of standard RP-1 :)
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<soundnfury> however, you're not required to observe RT signal delay if you're doing things that should be programmable but aren't (e.g. RT's burn executor sucks camels through a straw)
<Starman4308> There's a reason I wrote a kOS script for that, funny enough.
<soundnfury> I make this caveat because RT signal delay doesn't actually work — at least on Linux, I can steer and do most non-action-group inputs without signal delay being applied.
<soundnfury> (Also, Telemachus inputs bypass signal delay)
<Starman4308> I've noticed that too and it bugs me.
<Bornholio> i never play with signal delay, since my brain thinks its dumb that commands taht would have been programmed months or years ahead are normal space control
<soundnfury> So, I think we should rely on 'honour system'/roleplaying the signal delay. If it would be possible IRL, go ahead and do it :)
<soundnfury> Bornholio: any other questions?
<soundnfury> best if you try to get set up now, while I'm around to answer them :)
<Bornholio> I'll be pretty sporadic, just want to help you test
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<soundnfury> !tell Maxsimal let me know whether you can view http://jttlov.no-ip.org:8082 in a browser. Send me your KSP.log and screenshots of you trying to connect
<Qboid> soundnfury: I'll redirect this as soon as they are around.
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