ferram4 changed the topic of #RO to: Welcome to the discussion channel for the Realism Overhaul (meta)mod for KSP! Realism Overhaul Main Thread https://goo.gl/wH7Dzb ! RO Spreadsheet http://goo.gl/Oem3g0 ! Code of Conduct http://goo.gl/wOSv2M ! | Maximal & soundnfury's RP-1 Race Into Space Signup: http://bit.ly/2DEVm2i [15:01] <soundnfury> Straight Eight Stronk (and) RP-0/1 is basically "Space Agency Spreadsheet Simulator"
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<Rokker> 10:00:24 AM <schnobs> I just did a git clone, switched branch, and copied everything over.
<Rokker> see, I'm a complete moron when it comes to git anything like 0 clue what im doing
<schnobs> Rokker: hold on.
<Rokker> I'd be better at guiding someone through Zanzibar
<Rokker> than git
<schnobs> Ripped out of my working 131 install.
<Rokker> schnobs: <3
<Rokker> schnobs: it works \o/
<Rokker> I was probably doing everything wronf
<Rokker> wrong
<Rokker> so
<Rokker> thanks
<Raidernick> hey does anyone here use remotetech
<Bornholio> yes
<Raidernick> when an antenna has 2 ranges listed and upper and a lower
<Raidernick> what's the point of that
<schnobs> Raidernick: that's what powers RO antennas, right?
<Raidernick> why would a lower range matter
<schnobs> Would you have a part name, is it a config I can look at on github?
<Raidernick> no
<schnobs> First guess, some can be toggled between two modes.
<Raidernick> why would toggling modes matter though
<Bornholio> one is open the other is closed
<Raidernick> how does it know if it's open or closed
<Bornholio> activate button
<Raidernick> so the animation module then?
<Raidernick> the stock one?
<Raidernick> for antennae?
<Rokker> yeah I always thought it was like passive and active modes or something like that
<schnobs> Nope, not necessarily.
<Bornholio> hard to see with the reflectotron model
<schnobs> Activating an antenna does not require any animation.
<Raidernick> then it's pointless to have a lower and upper range for deployed and folded
<schnobs> See sputnik whips.
<Raidernick> the sputnik antennae aren't whips
<Raidernick> they are solid
<Bornholio> no, you can use the lower value in atmosphere
<Raidernick> and they don't move
<Bornholio> then extend when dynamic pressure is lower
<schnobs> I've given the Comm-32 a considerable range even when retracted, specifically to make venus landers easier to design.
<Raidernick> Bornholio, my point is if the antenna is always extended, like a solid metal pole that is unmoving why would you ever have an active and off mode
<wb99999999> oh hey born
<Raidernick> it should walys be the same
<Raidernick> always*
<schnobs> Raidernick: because we have no separate toggle for the radio as such.
<Raidernick> um what?
<Bornholio> hey 9's
<wb99999999> I'm having that wired node offset on the soviet engines' engines
<wb99999999> can you confirm?
<schnobs> Raidernick: an antenna is a dumb piece of metal. It's the electronics that consume power. Alright so far?
<Bornholio> i'll load tehm tomorrow unless i'm working
<wb99999999> sure
<wb99999999> thanks
<Bornholio> of course raidernick is right here :P
<Raidernick> schnobs, i'm not an idiot i'm asking how something like pioneer 3 can switch between antenna modes
<Raidernick> it has ZERo control authority at all
<Raidernick> it can't receive commands
<Raidernick> why would that have an activate button for antenna ranges
<Raidernick> it wouldn't
<Raidernick> so why is that something that's always there
<Raidernick> and i was asking Bornholio anyway
<Bornholio> can be low power mode and high power mode
<Raidernick> these probes don't have a low or high power mode
<Raidernick> they are just on until the battery dies
<Bornholio> like adding an amplifier thus consuming more power
<Raidernick> how do i disable that switch
<Raidernick> like sputnik 1
<Raidernick> it had no power modes
<Raidernick> no ability to do anything but send a tone
<Raidernick> how do i get rid of the switch on thigns like that
<Raidernick> that tells me nothing
<Raidernick> it only has examples of ground stations
<Raidernick> Bornholio, i noticed that the passive antenna doesn't seem to work
<Raidernick> or at least it does but not correctly
<Raidernick> i can control the ship, but it doesn't show up as connected in the top left and i can't use the flight computer
<Bornholio> all the spice in line (power control, antenna in range, activated (or pointed) other target in range (activeated/pointed)
<Raidernick> spice?
<Bornholio> i always have to figure out what i screwed up when that happens. usually i forgot power
<Raidernick> schnobs, also you'll probably want to close that camera RO pr, they aren't going to let it be accepted
<schnobs> Raidernick: Then someone has to go on the record and squash it.
<schnobs> Checking configs, even the "active by default" antennas have a toggle and can be turned off.
<schnobs> Hold on.
<schnobs> Even integrated transmitters (on avionics) have a button. It doesn't work, though, as there is just one range setting.
<schnobs> So it's active by default and can't be deactivated, as there's no other state to switch to.
<schnobs> Raidernick: does that make sense?
<Raidernick> hmm doesn't seem like omnirange matters what you set it too
<Raidernick> because the ground stations have huge range
<Raidernick> that seems to mean the probe itself can magically send the data back the same distance it can receive from
<Raidernick> which makes no sense
<schnobs> for reasonable omni ranges, the effective range is 1000x the nominal range.
<Bornholio> except for that harsh 100xomni max
<Raidernick> so if there a way to stop RT from being able to receive at the same distance the ground stations transmit to
<Raidernick> because these probes would have insanely weak signals back
<Raidernick> and right now i am connected at venus with a cygnus
<Raidernick> because that makes sense
<Raidernick> the cygnus antenna range is only 1000000
<Raidernick> it makes sense it should be able to RECEIVE the signals from earth
<Raidernick> but no way in hell is it sending anything back
<schnobs> Raidernick: to the best of my knowledge, connections in RT are strictly bidirectional.
<Raidernick> that's really stupid
<Raidernick> it means there's no point in setting an omni range
<Raidernick> you can set it to 1 for everything
<schnobs> Besides, what's the point of sending commands to a probe if you can't even get an ACK?
<schnobs> Raidernick: insofar as antenna ranges in RO are deliberately set, they're made to match mission profiles.
<schnobs> this is good for the Moon, that is good for Jupiter, and so on.
<Raidernick> i don't think you get what i'm saying
<Raidernick> i'm saying it doesn't matter what you set the range to if the ground station can ALWAYS communicate with it
<Raidernick> no matter where it is
<Raidernick> it doesn't matter if there's no point in being able to transmit to something if you can't receive back
<schnobs> Well, there's the hard 100x omni range. or are you saying that this doesn't work?
<Raidernick> 100x w/e you set it to?
<Bornholio> https://github.com/KSP-RO/RealismOverhaul/wiki/RemoteTech-antenna-ranges-in-RO antenna range is limited to 100 or 1000 if dish times its base range no matter the calc on root model
<schnobs> w/e = whatever? Then yes.
<Raidernick> Bornholio, that's stupid as hell
<Raidernick> why would that even be a thing
<Raidernick> why not just have it be 1:1
<Raidernick> and just set the actual values
<schnobs> Well, I could rationalize... but better ask a radio guy if there's maybe some truth behind it.
<Bornholio> because antenna sensitivity and antenna power are two sides of a root equations
<schnobs> But yes, given the huge range of DSN, practically all omins have 100xnominal as their effective range.
<Raidernick> also how do i turn off the stupid signal delay
<Bornholio> in RT button at KSC
<schnobs> RT menu in space center scene has a toggle to turn off delay.
<Raidernick> i didn't see it there
<Raidernick> i checked all the tabs
<schnobs> "Alternative Rules"
<Raidernick> i don't see that tab
<Raidernick> i have start presets worldscale visualstyle misc and cheats
<schnobs> RT version perhaps?
<Raidernick> i don't have that
<schnobs> Raidernick, back to previous topic. You say "the cygnus antenna range is only 1000000" and can connect from venus.
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<schnobs> 1 and six zeroes, that's 1/4 of the Comm-16... it shouldn't reach to the moon, even.
<schnobs> Not on it's own, at any rate.
<Raidernick> i'm at venus
<Raidernick> and i am connected
<schnobs> Any other transmitters?
<Raidernick> no
<schnobs> On depending on where Earth and Venus are, you should need at least 8 digits.
<schnobs> Between this and the missing tab, I'm inclined to believe that something's odd about your remotetech.
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<BadRocketsCo> Hullo
<Qboid> BadRocketsCo: soundnfury left a message for you in #RO [20.04.2018 17:28:35]: "yeah I expect we'll spin up a new one soon"
<BadRocketsCo> Ah, nice
<soundnfury> hi
* soundnfury is currently playing his spaceplanes-and-propellant-depots save
<BadRocketsCo> Heyya
<BadRocketsCo> soundnfury: oh, fancy! How far have you gotten?
<soundnfury> well, I've done several flights up to my super-primitive station
<soundnfury> and I've used lunar-orbit refuelling for a couple of sample recovery probes
<soundnfury> a little later this year (1963) I plan to start testing out my 'Delta Taxi' in Earth orbit, then probably the lunar fly-by will be early 1964
<soundnfury> (you've seen my CONOPS diagram, right?)
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<soundnfury> !tell schnobs did you ever find a fix for #860 or did it just randomly start working again?
<Qboid> soundnfury: I'll redirect this as soon as they are around.
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<Probus> o/
<Probus> Would someone point me to the install spreadsheet?
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<Starwaster> hey
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<Bornholio> its out of date since RO Release
<Probus> Thanks Bornholio
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<schnobs> I belive I've heard something about RemoteTech adding a "Relay" flag or something?
<Qboid> schnobs: soundnfury left a message for you in #RO [22.04.2018 08:04:17]: "did you ever find a fix for #860 or did it just randomly start working again?"
<schnobs> !tell soundnfury re #860, I'm still clueless.
<Qboid> schnobs: I'll redirect this as soon as they are around.
<soundnfury> 'k
<Qboid> soundnfury: schnobs left a message for you in #RO [22.04.2018 15:02:23]: "re #860, I'm still clueless."
<soundnfury> thanks anyway
<soundnfury> (I do have a theory about the AJ10-137: ECM-Parts.cfg has the line "AJ10-137 = AJ10-137" which I can imagine might break some things)
<soundnfury> (but I don't really know how the new ECM system works tbh)
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<wb99999999> hey
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<egg> lamont: so, any updates on your requirements for principia endpoints?
<egg> lamont: or any issues with the existing one?
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<Starwaster> does anyone know what the CoM offset was for MSL?
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<Bornholio> 12.63cm
<Bornholio> of course i'm not sure if the number includes the offset weights
<wb99999999> oh hey born
<wb99999999> got time to check that weirdness?
<Rokker> Bornholio: I like that we decided to up the ante and just literally land a crane on mars this time
<Bornholio> yes just finished loading 9's
<Bornholio> cranes?
<Bornholio> wb99999999 ok what engine specificly am i checking
<Rokker> Bornholio: instead of using a crane to lower a rover onto the surface, we are just gonna land a tiny crane on the surface
<Rokker> with Insight
<Starwaster> thanks bornholio
<Bornholio> hey starwaster you might get better detail if you look into the offset weights
<Starwaster> I have them
<Starwaster> two 75kg weights initially to offset and then 6 25kg weights to rebalance prior to chute deployment
<Bornholio> wb99999999 yes they have a problem with offset node also seems like there is more dmage than that since 4 shroud buttons appear on the NK-9 hey raidernick you are working on Soviet engines lately is there already a fixc?
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<Bornholio> starwaster i have not seen the weights coords listed in anything i've read if you see something with that much detail drop a link
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<Rokker> Bornholio: America is gin a be, the first country to land a crane game on Mars
<Rokker> gonnaj
<Rokker> gonna*
<Rokker> damn phone keyboards
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<Bornholio> wish they would do phobos/deimos
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<Rokker> Bornholio: the aliens inside hollow phobos would never allow it
<Bornholio> i'd probe them but i have a phobia :P
<ProjectThoth> oWo whats this
<Rokker> Bornholio: I gotta say, I had always imagined the Japanese would land the first crane game on mars
<Rokker> ah good ProjectThoth
<Rokker> I wanna discuss the DC-1 through 3 with you
<ProjectThoth> Rawr! *nuzzles ur ass-teroid*
<ProjectThoth> Rokker: Anyway, what about them?
<Rokker> ProjectThoth: let's take it to spacex, don't wanna spam this channel unnecessarily
<Bornholio> like thats ever happened rokker
<Rokker> Bornholio: why couldnt the YC-14 have been put into production
<Bornholio> it was too sexy
<Bornholio> but really props were good enough for that size class, and Dash airdraft could have done the short TO just as well. They get really good coanda effects