ferram4 changed the topic of #RO to: Welcome to the discussion channel for the Realism Overhaul (meta)mod for KSP! Realism Overhaul Main Thread https://goo.gl/wH7Dzb ! RO Spreadsheet http://goo.gl/Oem3g0 ! Code of Conduct http://goo.gl/wOSv2M ! | Maximal & soundnfury's RP-1 Race Into Space Signup: http://bit.ly/2DEVm2i [15:01] <soundnfury> Straight Eight Stronk (and) RP-0/1 is basically "Space Agency Spreadsheet Simulator"
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<Rokker> Bornholio: ITS HAPPENING
<Rokker> Bornholio: TRUMP JUST ANNOUNCED A STRIKE ON SYRIA
<Rokker> FEANCE UK AND US
<Bornholio> ^R
<Rokker> Bornholio: also, did you see my youtube screenshot
<Rokker> Bornholio: insane fighter jets you wont believe
<Bornholio> post agin, maybe missed backchat
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<Bornholio> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9nu7LtizQg4 floop fllop in go the drones
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<Rokker> Bornholio: seriously, you wont believe it
<Bornholio> uh
<Rokker> Bornholio: absolutely insane
<Bornholio> most
<Rokker> Bornholio: KC-10 near Kriti
<Bornholio> yeah all the drone tags started dropping earlier
<Bornholio> ksp manned mission theme song https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ggkaj2lRPuM
<Rokker> Bornholio: Global Hawk over the med
<Bornholio> no doubt the russian GPS jammers are getting tested right now
<Rokker> Bornholio: whats our method for getting around that
<Rokker> Bornholio: fox is reporting that we got some bones involved
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<Rokker> Bornholio: reports of an F-18 damaged by AA
<Starwaster> rokker, 'bones involved'? <--- what's that?
<Rokker> Starwaster: B-1 Lancer bombers
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<Bornholio> rokker frequency agile correction channel. does differential improvements when not jammed and limits degredation when jamming happens
<Bornholio> likely one or more of the global hawks is acting as the correction channel
<Rokker> Bornholio: russian ambassador is claiming a predesigned scenario is being enacted, as to what that means who knows
<Bornholio> they are saying among other stupid things we made up the chemical attack
<Rokker> Bornholio: Rivet Joint over med
<soundnfury> at this point I think we should just assume that everything Russia says is dezinformatsiya and thus, even in cases where it happens to be true, is a memetic hazard and should be ignored as fully as possible
<soundnfury> of course, it is difficult to act as though you did not have a piece of information that you in fact have encountered; where's my sophotechnology dammit
<Rokker> Bornholio: all the people calling this illegal and unconstitutional need to A) brush up on their legal knowledge and B) realize this really isnt much different from last year beyond russia making a big fuss about it
<Bornholio> yeah i have little use for limited CM volley fire. unless its a ADZ breaching start its a waste. Not like assad is dead or the people who ordered the chemical attacks
<soundnfury> If you're gonna play world policeman, do it properly.
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<soundnfury> Either invade the country, depose the government that's acting like barbarians and run the place as a protectorate for a while, or stay out of the affairs of countries that aren't shooting at you.
<Rokker> Bornholio: idk, the response seems appropriate. diminish their chemical abilities, if they do it again, diminish it further
<soundnfury> This kind of half-way intervening-but-not-too-hard just makes things worse
<Bornholio> there is always chemical capability in the modern world. diminishing the people willign to use it is more important
<Rokker> Bornholio: never shoot the leader cause then he cant end the war
<Bornholio> yeah always another leader
<Rokker> dawns early light taught me that one
<soundnfury> Rokker: eh, you can usually find a Dönitz
<Bornholio> aint any fun to live in a ditch like sadam
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<Rokker> Bornholio: I've always been entertained by those gear
<Rokker> especially crabbing
<Bornholio> lol yup looks like the have a degree or two set
<Bornholio> g'night
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<schnobs> rescaling fun: http://ksp.schnobs.de/stuff/foo.jpg
<BadRocketsCo> schnobs: solar panels?
<schnobs> Trying to rescale the ranger panel for use on earlier probes.
<schnobs> Models have height, width, and length.
<schnobs> width, in this particular case, means "length (extended)"
<schnobs> Do you think a telescoping panel would be acceptable?
<schnobs> Also, do you happen to know if solar panels can be double-sided?
<schnobs> (as in, "does the game allow it")
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<Starwaster> Is Aerojet still working on a new main engine for Orion or are they going to use any off the shelf engines?
<Starwaster> schnobs no, solar panels can't be double sided. It's hard coded that a particular transform has to be pointing at the sun
<Starwaster> IRL the only reason for such panel would be to boost electrical output so if you want to talk about a new solar panel part then the easiest way to do that would be to boost output by a small amount
<schnobs> Starwaster: oh, that's too bad.
<schnobs> The aim was to make something along these lines: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Explorer_6
<schnobs> Those were extendable, but not tracking panels. Note how they're angled at 90 degrees to each other.
<schnobs> So basically, just a means to provide more static panels than you could confortably fit on the surface of the probe body.
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<Bornholio> schnobs or you could use RN's us probes
<Bornholio> since pretty much every one is in there
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<schnobs> Bornholio: this is part of https://github.com/KSP-RO/RP-0/issues/875
<Qboid> [#875] title: Tech Changes for RP-1 | There's a few changes I'd like to do, preferably before the RP-1 release. As I expect some reactions to this, I'd rather discuss it first than just hand in a PR. In no particular order:... | https://github.com/KSP-RO/RP-0/issues/875
<schnobs> basically, "get folding panels sooner".
<schnobs> Installing this or that modpack would maybe take care of it, but that's not the kind of solution I'm looking for.
<Bornholio> problem is that folding solar panels do indeed historically happen that late, same for most parts you see that "appear missplaced" If you have research that shows otherwise and not just game balance or do't like it concerns that would have much more weight
<Bornholio> yes and there are both approriately placed
<schnobs> What I'm trying to get at: folding panels were a thing pretty much right from the start.
<Bornholio> no they aren't the folding panels track
<schnobs> Yes.
<Bornholio> neither transit of explorer do that the are just flop out
<Bornholio> or
<Bornholio> and in game its just utilization factor
<schnobs> That's been a sore point for a long time, and at some point in the last year someone added "Ranger" panels which fold out but don't track.
<Bornholio> yes pap asked taniwha to add them
<Bornholio> also there is a whole solar panel pack from RN
<schnobs> Now I'm rescaling them a bit, and downgrading to lvl1, so we can have them from the start.
<schnobs> (that is, "start of solar panels". not literally teh starting node.)
<schnobs> Bornholio: incidentally, some input on https://github.com/KSP-RO/RP-0/issues/875 would be nice. #887 too, IMO it could be merged into the former.
<Qboid> [#875] title: Tech Changes for RP-1 | There's a few changes I'd like to do, preferably before the RP-1 release. As I expect some reactions to this, I'd rather discuss it first than just hand in a PR. In no particular order:... | https://github.com/KSP-RO/RP-0/issues/875
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<BadRocketsCo> Howdy
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<user> Hello there.
<Rokker> Bornholio: God, this has to be the most boring start to a world war ever
<user> I've question about installing RO on a steamversion of KSP. I've already tryed to unzip the .zip-file into the gameData folder, but unfortunatly ksp is launching the mod.
<Rokker> huh?
<user> This is the realism overhaul channel for KSP, right?
<Rokker> yes
<Rokker> but if it's launching the mod what's the problem
<user> Well, I'm trying to install RO via linux.
<user> But it doesn't work.
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<schnobs> User: first off, rip KSP out off steam. Just move the whole directry elsewhere.
<Rokker> wait
<Rokker> User: you don't unzip the zip into gamedata
<schnobs> Then... don't install it by hand. CKAN is there to help you.
<Rokker> you unzip the zip into the main ops folder
<Rokker> User: the gamedata will merge with the gamedata, the ships will merge with the ships
<user> But how do I get work CKAN on linux?
<Rokker> also yeah, fuck steam
<Rokker> I never moved over to steam
<taniwha> User: install mono
<schnobs> User: Getting CKAN to work is definitely worthwhile. Not sure where to pick you up, though.
<taniwha> I don't remember installing anything else
<schnobs> Hmmm. Are working Comm networks a design goal?
<schnobs> The KR-7 dish has been specifically made to cover Earth from GEO. It's nowhere powerful enough to act as Comm relay for ordinary probes in LEO, though.
<schnobs> If I crank up the power to sufficient levels, it quickly becomes interplanetary-capable (which it shouldn't be)
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<schnobs> Ofc one could tweak the other end. It takes approx 12Mm (3 Comm-16) on the probe to establish a connection to a KR-7 in GEO. What if that was the default range of upper stages?
<schnobs> Only downside I can think of is that it would enable uppers to go to the moon without any antenna.
<Bornholio> you can put several com 16's and plenty of coverage, and if you put larger amounts on you can cover from geo
<Bornholio> you can use KR's for point to point early but the are hard to get coverage with
<schnobs> KR-7 was made specifically to cover Earth from Geo. At least angle-wise. (it was me who did it)
<schnobs> Range is another matter. In order to pick up a KR-7 sitting in GEO, your upper stage (or whatever wants connection) needs to have ..hold on..
<Bornholio> you don't get good high angle coverage with them, like real life
<schnobs> Yep, your probe in LEO needs 3 Comm-16 worth of range in order to link up to the KR in GEO.
<Bornholio> i punt eliptical 100x1500km pairs over teh poles on terra and luna and use 8xcomm16 in geo to get coverage. i find the KR's useful for keeping far side links up on mars/venus/moon missions
<schnobs> ??
<Bornholio> on earth you leave the triangle/quad mid altitude network in for most leo stuff
<schnobs> Can't solve equations anymore, but midle triangle seems easier to pull off than GEO.
<schnobs> Lower delays, too.
<Bornholio> yes, i prefer quads since you can get them up earlier
<schnobs> How do you launch these, btw?
<schnobs> I can calculate a dV requirement for circularization, but first I need to hit the target altitude *precisely*.
<schnobs> Before restartable uppers, that's hard to do. "Wait I blinked", now I'm 100km too high.
<Bornholio> RCS
<Bornholio> always rcs, once you have NOs you can do reliable fine SMA tuning
<Bornholio> when you get cavea-b you can start usinging it as main propulsoin for a lot of missions
<Bornholio> for the planner first change the settings to RSS,RO defaults then add the antennas you want before using the planner page
<schnobs> Bornholio: planning isn't the problem, contract spells it out nicely.
<Bornholio> the planner gives you dv for burns
<schnobs> I wonder how to get there with something that looks and plays like a 1960 satellite launch, though.
<Bornholio> hypergolic from leo, then apogee kick and RCS fine tune
<schnobs> I think direct ascent to target alt would be more period, but ... uh oh.
<Bornholio> you sure can but inclination setting and side slip is hard to plan
<Bornholio> you can do all the orbit tuning by dropping into slightly lower than intended orbit and tune the hohmann for side slip. that can take a while but gets very nicely formed comnet by using launch to plane in MJ if you want direct ascent
<Bornholio> the kick motor planning then is harder tho
<schnobs> Well. XASR for me (easier to tune dV than juggling Sergeants).
<soundnfury> schnobs: I agree with you about small folding panels, btw
<schnobs> Not that we have much use for them, early on. But (again transmitters) the KR-7 is built to draw a lot of power, which is difficult to satisfy with static ones.
<schnobs> Possibly Scansat too.
<Bornholio> https://i.imgur.com/HsssVMq.png .shrug, never found it a problem even running radar mappers
<Starwaster> 5m Falcon 18... Heavy.
<schnobs> Bornholio: just double-checked, that scanner needs 50W these days...
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<soundnfury> yeah, there was a time it was 250W or some such ridiculous figure
<schnobs> Lately, someone around here fell in love with the Vanguard...?
<Rokker> Bornholio: I wish the DOD had gone through with air launched tomahawks
<Rokker> Bornholio: Syria is now the 3rd most Tomahawked country in the world
<Bornholio> seems pretty insignifigant compared to their own self immolation
<schnobs> How risky is it to exceed the rated burn time?
<schnobs> Used to be that engines were failed reliably at 110%, but I gather this is no longer the case.
<Bornholio> it increases rapidly to its rate overburn time
<schnobs> Not sure if I understand that answer...
<Bornholio> so an a-4 will fail from burn through somewhere between 70s and 180s with a 100% chance by 180s
<schnobs> OK. So my question now becomes, do I have any chance to get even near 180s?
<Bornholio> no
<Bornholio> combine with normal mode failure its pretty improbible even with high data
<schnobs> If failure chaance was ploted on a graph, would it be more exponential-like or more sqrt-like?
<Bornholio> i think its a linear failure chance so real failure is a exponential, then add normal failure modes ...
<Bornholio> grab awang to confirm, he looked at the code closer
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<schnobs> OK, better luck next time.
<schnobs> Thanks so far.
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<Rokker> Bornholio: there's an RQ-4B coming up on hour 22 of orbiting the med just off syria
<Bornholio> is it in the Rus Navy DZ?
<Rokker> Bornholio: nah more off the shores of Lebanon really
<Rokker> it's just watching the south east corner of the med
<Rokker> Bornholio: wouldn't be surprised if it's possibly supporting the reported Israeli strikes in some way
<Bornholio> they have been used alot for mobile radio tower
<Rokker> Bornholio: oh crap
<Rokker> Bornholio: the B-1s used AGM-158 JASSMs
<Bornholio> and they worked quite well. though rus/assad claims shootdowns
<schnobs> Noone needs first Thor and Atlas! While waiting for the 2nd gen to unlock, I'm testing AJ-10s...
<Bornholio> need and reality don't mesh
<Rokker> Bornholio: Combat Sent spotted leaving the med 8 hours ago
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<Rokker> Bornholio: I love vacation pictures https://www.dvidshub.net/image/4297873/b-1-being-refueled-135
<Rokker> here's a B-1 on it's way to vacation in syria
<Bornholio> 6 box lunches later you land and go sleep
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<egg|zzz|egg> !!! transient felger
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<schnobs> too much data can be a PITA.
<schnobs> So Vanguard used two types of SRB for it's third stage.
<Starwaster> NEED MORE DATA STEPHANIE!
<schnobs> I have gross mass, propellant mass, empty mass. Only that they don't add up.
<Bornholio> in srb's you tune parameters with mass
<Bornholio> so they could be different every mission
<schnobs> Well, and I do have data for "mass expelled at ignition" -- nozzle plug and some other parts.
<schnobs> But what do i make of these?
<Bornholio> can also very the thrust profile with variation in central cavity
<schnobs> Oh, and btw: there used to be a dropbox full of PDFs somewhere...?
<Starwaster> anyone have any idea how much N2 gas Space X loads its boosters with for RCS?
<Bornholio> {classified}
<schnobs> About as detailed as the Apollo Manual, if not more so.
<Starwaster> huh I didn't know second stage used N2 for attitude control
<Bornholio> roll only i think'
<Bornholio> well tiny but of attitude
<Starwaster> it has no other attitude control so cold gas for all of it
<Bornholio> never seen the LN2 load listed but best guess is 160-500kg
<Bornholio> total
<Bornholio> fairing is pressurized + <.25 psi with dry GN2
<Bornholio> vents as it goes up
<Bornholio> Starwaster they are building my AC unit for spacex this last week. :)