ferram4 changed the topic of #RO to: Welcome to the discussion channel for the Realism Overhaul (meta)mod for KSP! Realism Overhaul Main Thread https://goo.gl/wH7Dzb ! RO Spreadsheet http://goo.gl/Oem3g0 ! Code of Conduct http://goo.gl/wOSv2M ! | Maximal & soundnfury's RP-1 Race Into Space Signup: http://bit.ly/2DEVm2i [15:01] <soundnfury> Straight Eight Stronk (and) RP-0/1 is basically "Space Agency Spreadsheet Simulator"
<zilti> Bornholio: 0.26
<Bornholio> so .32 is comercial airliner/bomber fully loaded, 1.0 is fighter jet, lower your fuel till you have a .5 or so, also double check you have a tiny bit of upward pitch when sitting flat, and maybe move the tail wheel forward to make it easier to take off. Reverse trike is most stable on landing. which is the hard part generally
<zilti> Bornholio: and the wings not having a "lifting surface" entry in the "more info" section in the SPH?
<Bornholio> FAR doesn't need that
<Bornholio> you can also give the wings a tiny bit of upward tilt, watch the CoL change when you do that
<soundnfury> ... how do you only get to 58 m/s on that gigantic runway?
<soundnfury> I'll admit that my planes don't always work first time... but I'm amazed by just _how badly_ some people manage to design theirs :S
<zilti> soundnfury: a twr of 0.26 and a really crappy engine will do that :P
<soundnfury> tfw your single-engine general aviation 'plane flies worse than a Stirling?
<Rokker> Bornholio: just got new info about the harrier pilot. he is awake and eating crayons
<Rokker> so back to normal
<Bornholio> hopefully they are limiting him to the non glitter kind
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<zilti> Bornholio: I can get to a twr of 0.4 when I go down to 40 "units" of AvGas
<zilti> Engine is an IO-550-B
<Bornholio> ok, well something is heavy :P thats a pretty low hp motor but still. well just keep enough fuel for 20-40 minutes of lfight or whatever your are trying to do
<zilti> Well, the vessel mass is 1622 kg, which seems reasonable
<soundnfury> zilti: middle-click each of your parts, find out which are heaviest?
<soundnfury> e.g. do your wings have needlessly high mass-strength numbers?
<soundnfury> (you probably don't need solid Inconel wings on your Proctor Percival ;)
<zilti> soundnfury: well, the heaviest part is the cabin with "300 / 396 kg". Engine is 260 kg. Tail: 2 kg (sic!). Wing part (of which there are 10): 33 kg.
<zilti> All wheels combined 40 kg. Each elevon 3 kg.
<soundnfury> ok, then that engine is just too shite for anything bigger than a hangglider.
<soundnfury> (iirc it's 300hp or something? a Merlin is six times that ;)
<zilti> I slightly rotated the front wings upwards, now the tail gets airborne at 50 m/s
<zilti> 300 hp, yes. Well, the Merlin also gets stuff into orbit
<soundnfury> Different Merlin :P
<zilti> Ah :P
<zilti> heheh, I could attempt a rocket-assisted takeoff
<soundnfury> For comparison, the de Havilland Tiger Moth masses 500kg empty / 800kg loaded, has a 130hp engine, and cruises at 67mph (which is about 30m/s).
<soundnfury> So as you've got double the mass, and a little over double the engine power... yeah, you're not gonna be flying very fast. Better make sure your wing lifts enough at 50m/s.
<soundnfury> Flaps are your friend.
<zilti> I could make the wings a tad longer. I'm at 27/30 parts. But that probably wouldn't help
<zilti> soundnfury: ...this means? Setting "Flp/Splr" -> set "Flap" to "active"?
<soundnfury> zilti: and hooking up action groups to increase/decrease flap setting, unless you want extreme tedium
<soundnfury> flaps increase the camber of your wing, which has an effect _sorta_ like increasing its incidence
<zilti> I removed pitch authority from the main wing elevons and only have it on the tail wings
<soundnfury> in that you get higher Cl but also higher Cd, thus lower stall speed but also lower L/D
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<zilti> Ok I think it was not a good idea to tilt both wings a bit in the SPH
<soundnfury> it sounds like you're currently at about the Blériot V or VI stage of knowing-what-the-shit-aerodynamics-is-about ;) you might want to read around some background texts
<zilti> soundnfury: yeah that sounds about right ^^
<soundnfury> zilti: btw, loosely connected to the subject of 'planes: https://plus.google.com/+EdwardCree/posts/dqAU8MEupXt
<zilti> Oh yay, I managed to take off, righten the plane, and fall back to the ground in a sorta-ballistic arch ^^
<soundnfury> Nice. You should name it the 14 bis.
<soundnfury> (unless it took you _more_ than 14 attempts to build it xD)
<zilti> Oooh, I changed the elevon config and I'm flying! :)
<soundnfury> \o/
<soundnfury> ^ that's a dihedral btw. Do you have a dihedral? ;)
<zilti> dihe-what? :) https://i.imgur.com/mty6rmw.png I constantly have to steer lightly up though. Two front elevons are configured as pitch -50% and the two back ones at +100%
<zilti> Now to land this devil's machine
<Bornholio> trim, alt+direction will put a slight set on the control surfaces
<zilti> ...phew. This thing glides great
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<Raidernick> Bornholio, could you test something in fasa for me
<Raidernick> for some reason my fasa engines are all pink
<Raidernick> well some parts of them are pink
<Raidernick> and some are normal
<Raidernick> can't be a missing texture since the engine uses the same texture for all parts
<Raidernick> and some of them are working
<Raidernick> also didn't have the issue in 1.2.2
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<Raidernick> nvm i figured it out i was using a version of fasa from 2014
<Raidernick> despite having just released a version 14 days ago
<Raidernick> lol
<soundnfury> great jorb :)
<camlost> zilti: you may want to make it twin-engine. Like a Beechcraft Baron B58
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<BadRocketsCo> Hullo
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<zilti> Well, that shall be done as soon as I've tamed that beast
<zilti> And as soon as I've found out why the game slows down with that plane.
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<Rokker> Bornholio: well shit, marine heli crash, not as happy of an ending as the harrier crash
<Rokker> 4 dead
<Bornholio> what are you bad news bear?
<Bornholio> raidernick still need FASA testing?
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<Bornholio> also raidernick you are the champion, dang lots of updates good job!
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<BadRocketsCo> Howdy!
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<Pap> Bornholio: o/
<Pap> Raidernick: o/
<Pap> Bornholio: since you are the most familiar with it, what needs to be stripped out of RP-1 for us to make a releaseable version for 1.3.1?
<Pap> awang: you might have some ideas as well
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<awang> Pap: I would say the training thing at least
<awang> It's still pretty buggy last I heard
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<Pap> If we remove the training aspect, what does it do to the payout balancing, anything?
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<awang> I never got far enough into career for that to matter
<awang> Only training I did was for a starting cockpit and for the X-1
<awang> I'm not even sure I knew there were training costs
<awang> I know there are maintenance costs
<zilti> I know about neither of the two ^^
<awang> ^which we should probably make pretty clear, since it's invisible otherwise
<awang> zilti: Well, now you know why you slowly lose money when timewarping long periods :P
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<zilti> awang: it definitely explains... stuff ^^
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<Pap> Removing maintenance might be best as well, but I will defer to those who have played it more than I have
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<Maxsimal> I hate this new front end, any way to go back to the old one?
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<soundnfury> awang: there's maintenance costs sure, but I didn't think there were training costs ...?
<soundnfury> (there _are_ per-'naut costs, but they're unconnected to training, they just depend on the level of the AC building)
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<soundnfury> also afaik the training bugs _seem_ to have been fixed now
<soundnfury> I don't think any of rp-1's features are broken enough to need removing
<soundnfury> (though we do need to WTFM and then ensure players read it...)
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<Maxsimal> Yeah definitely need a primer on all the changes.
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<Pap> soundnfury: is what Bronholio has put together on the Wiki good enough, or is more needed?
<awang> soundnfury: idk, I had the impression that there was a small fee for classes
<awang> I wouldn't be surprised if I were wrong, since I was never really paying attention in the first place
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<awang> Didn't know about the training bugs being fixed
<awang> Or more that I forgot about that
<awang> I wish I had more time to try it out...
<awang> Pap: There can never be enough documentation for the end user
<awang> They'll find a way to make things interesting one way or another
<Starwaster> what training bugs?
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<blowfish> Starwaster: no
<blowfish> I got confused by some of the text on that PR
<blowfish> but it does not contain the newCryo changes
<Starwaster> ok I'll take care of it myself when I get a chance
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<awang> Starwaster: Something about training either not finishing, not expiring, or something along those lines
<Bornholio> pap i think that training the training/tooling/maintenance section and its special dlls are all that need to drop away, and if there was a switch that defaulted them off it could even stay in. then a user could purposely turn them on.
<Bornholio> Tree should be good, contracts also. only problem with costs is that all contracts are to high yield because tooling costs are in. Roll out costs and cost multipliers also mess that a lot
<Bornholio> Maybe config for cost multi = 1.0 across the board and reduce contract payout by difficulty setting config %
<Bornholio> crew science can stay in unchanged, only works if someone puts in wild blue tools anyway
<Bornholio> https://github.com/KSP-RO/RP-0/issues/749 these dll's either need some way to be added to a RP1 release and i have no clue how that would work. Maybe side channel releases of those mods using the RO controlled forks
<Bornholio> ec429 soundnfury could possibly edit the gui to have the switches in it for the RP1 content On/Off(Default) function.
<Bornholio> or maybe awang :P
<Bornholio> see how i offer up souls to the RP Gods
<Bornholio> training has worked as intended lately and i have not seen any problems like before NK's temporary ressurection
<Bornholio> https://github.com/KSP-RO/KerbalRenamer shoulde be released for 1.3.1
<Rokker> Bornholio: what the fuck
<Rokker> F-16 crash
<Bornholio> come in threes
<awang> Now that RF has a new release, aren't NK's dlls unnecessary?
<awang> Bornholio: Main problem with switching RP-1 stuff on/off is that it seriously messes with game balance
<Bornholio> maybe, is that the DLL that has tooling in it or is that in The dev RP0 dlls
<awang> Tooling/rollout costs, specifically
<Bornholio> sure does
<Bornholio> but so can playing easy
<awang> Tooling is a RP-1 thing. RF needed updates for utilization things, I think
<awang> Oh, part entry costs were the big thing
<awang> I think
<awang> brb
<Bornholio> what is in the KCT dll then
<Bornholio> part entry costs are a user switch/spreadsheet thing
<Bornholio> the new tank types should be RP0 as the contracts need them
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<blowfish> all the utilization and entry cost related stuff should be released with RF now
<blowfish> unless there was stuff that wasn't in that big PR awang
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