NathanKell changed the topic of #RO to: Welcome to the discussion channel for the Realism Overhaul (meta)mod for KSP! Realism Overhaul Main Thread https://goo.gl/wH7Dzb ! RO Spreadsheet http://goo.gl/Oem3g0 ! Code of Conduct http://goo.gl/wOSv2M ! | [15:01] <soundnfury> Straight Eight Stronk (and) RP-0/1 is basically "Space Agency Spreadsheet Simulator" with a rocket-flying minigame
<Starman4308> Oh man, Test Flight. I downloaded that thinking it had functionality similar to KRASH or the old KCT simulations.
<schnobs> ouch.
<Bornholio> lol
<Starman4308> I went to launch a sounding rocket, at which point I first had one, then the other, RD-100 flame out, and then checked the F3 menu.
<Bornholio> i love test flight except for the slow down it has, failures are spice
<Starman4308> It took at least one flight of my first attempt at an orbital rocket to figure out that it wans't just random failures: there were rated burn times.
<schnobs> Meanwhile I mostly like testflight. The worst downside is that the mission schedule more often than not doesn't allow for failures, which isn't exactly TF's fault.
<Starman4308> Yep. I'd be a fan of making the contract deadlines a little bit more generous, so you don't have to get into the habit of always building a spare.
<Bornholio> Except for interplanetary there is ussually plent of time for a second or third mission if you have areasonaoble build rate. even then you might hit a fast conjuction mission
<schnobs> When I first played RP-0 the minor TF failures were silent. I make a minor change on my rocket and performance drops sharply, what the...?
<Bornholio> ignition failures used to be turned off
<schnobs> I had lots of self-made failure before, lack of feed pressure and ullage and stuff. Took me a while to figure out that something else had it's fingers in the pie on top of that.
<Starman4308> Hm? I've seen at least one case of an engine failing on the pad with clamps still attached. Least terrifying engine failure I've ever had.
<Starman4308> (and I did have at least one failure due to insufficient feed pressure when I researched default-type tanks, and the procedural tanks stopped defaulting to fuselage-type)
<schnobs> Failure-on-pad is actually quite worthwhile, yields lots of engine data. Often more than a successful flight.
<schnobs> Blessed is he who can find a use for the AJ-10 as a first-stage motor.
<Starman4308> I could swear I did use the AJ-10 on a first-stage for a sounding rocket at some point. Possibly with a Tiny Tim booster, but still.
<schnobs> I just used it to make tiny suborbital hops with a X-1 cockpit. Quite silly, but i needed the money.
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<Bornholio> MJ hates ascents on RCS, eject all stages !
<Bornholio> frig
<Starman4308> Welp. That's gotta suck.
<Bornholio> ok try again, remind self save on landing.
<Bornholio> also need to find a way to remove anything that KAC does except be an alarm clock, these wierd orbit changes are annoying
<Starman4308> Orbit changes? I was under the impression KAC was just, well, an alarm clock.
<Starman4308> (does it have something to do with Principia? I haven't yet had the courage to try Principia out)
<Bornholio> no it doesn't , just once in a while if i use KAC timeworp function the orbit will be messed up afterwards
<Bornholio> warp
<Starman4308> Anyways, waiting for my Voyager probes to reach their targets has reminded me of something my sister said: "people at NASA are some of the most patient people in the world, waiting years for seven minutes of terror to see if they did things right".
<Starman4308> As I look through the "WDYDIKSPT" thread: "How many days has it been since I launched those Voyagers? Scratch that, how many weeks has it been?"
<Starman4308> Almost 3, as it turns out... and none of them are at their destinations yet. RSS is biiiiig.
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<Pap> blowfish: I have been working on the spreadsheet instructions. It is taking a little time, but is thorough and should open up the functionlity to all
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<Starman4308> Only KSP contract logic and exact spheres of influence can make 730 km from Phobos "not a close flyby".
<Starman4308> (also, is there a good, stable visual mod for RSS in 1.2.2?)
<Bornholio> RSSVE works ok, just very finnicky about scatterer version
<Starman4308> Alrighty. Thanks: I'd been putting it off, but I'm pretty sure RSS has decided it's going to be unstable whether or not I have visual mods.
<Bornholio> yeah i can't play without them, but their impact isn't too bad
<Starman4308> I appear to have a TWR of 1459 at Phobos. Something tells me I could land this orbiter if I wanted to.
<Bornholio> D&P tend to shear landing legs off anyway :)
<Bornholio> I've landed manned landers on them upside down using RCS
<Starman4308> "The Big Bad Wolf of Phobos. Chapter 2: The Big Bad Wolf of Phobos came to the first piglet's house. He huffed and he puffed and he blew himself to escape trajectory. End of story.".
<Bornholio> genlte nudges please
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<Starman4308> On one hand: I now definitely need to send a repeat mission to get to Deimos. On the other hand, I have proven this orbiter can, as point of fact, land on Phobos. By accident. Breaking all the solar panels in the process.
<taniwha> Starman4308: heh. Last night I broke six gigantor solar panels on my station when I built a ship that clipped at least one (didn't cause problems until I released the ship)
<taniwha> I had 8 gigantors :/
<taniwha> I guess it's time for me to work on that refurbish/repair idea I have for EL :P
<taniwha> (use EL to repair broken solar panels:)
<Bornholio> the sputnik antennas work as great curb feelers
<taniwha> I've found that solar panels are surprisingly sturdy
<taniwha> low impact, but high strength
<Bornholio> also for a great extendable pusher you can use the DMagic science magnetic sensor that spirals out
<taniwha> yeah, that sounds promising for righting tipped ships
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<Starman4308> Right now in the process of using this probe's 26 hours of battery and 2489 m/sec of delta-V to try to still manage my Deimos flyby contract...
<blowfish> We seem to have a pretty big backlog of pull requests at RealismOverhaul right now. Has anyone with merge access taken a look recently? If those with merge access are too busy, maybe that's a sign we should give a few more people access?
<Bornholio> like you !
<Bornholio> .sendsBeer NathanKell|AFK
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<Rokker> Bornholio: did I tell you that they do heritage flight certification next door to pima at Davis monthan?
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<Bornholio> pap looks like i get no crew science in Gemini either, yes Rokker Thats a good deal to get to see it
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<schnobs> o/
<schnobs> Say, how can I figure out how much dV I'll get from the Stayputnik decoupler?
<taniwha> schnobs: by working out the impulse
<taniwha> impulse = force * time
<schnobs> Ejection force is 2.5, half of which should go to either side.
<taniwha> no, not half
<taniwha> 2.5 goes to each side
<schnobs> Oh.
<schnobs> Good to know.
<taniwha> you push on something with 100N, it pushes on you with 100N
<taniwha> however, because the momentum of the system is conserved, the impulse is mass-distributed between the two
<taniwha> ie, m1*v1 + m2*v2 = m1*v1'+m2*v2'
<taniwha> er, or, you know, I'm slightly fuzzy on the details now
<taniwha> ah, right, m1(v1'-v1) = I1, m2(v2'-v2) = I2
<schnobs> Don't know the math off the top off my head, and am not even sure of the physics terms to look it up.
<schnobs> But it's got to be a FAQ of sorts, I'll check the forum.
<taniwha> impulse and conservation of momentum
<taniwha> those are the terms you need
<schnobs> thanks
<taniwha> I used to simulate balls colliding, but that was about 30 years ago :/
<schnobs> Armmm. The unit is kgF*s, so the decoupler applies the equivalent of a 2.5kg force for the duration of one second...?
<schnobs> On an unadorned probe of 10kg, will that amount to 2.5m/s, is it that simple?
<schnobs> *buzz sound*
<taniwha> eh? dunno about KSP, but normal physics uses Ns rather than kgFs
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<schnobs> KSP wiki claims the observed force resolves to units of kgF*s.
<taniwha> never trust KSP wiki when it comes to units
<taniwha> it says the FL-T400 holds 180L of liquid fuel. Not true, it holds 900
<schnobs> 180 "units" of 5l. Yeah, most annoying.
<taniwha> (stock resource units are (for the most part) equivalent to 5L, not 1)
<taniwha> British gallon :)
<taniwha> (4.8L iirc)
<schnobs> hold my beer (assembles craft, engages hyperedit)
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* taniwha drinks beer
<taniwha> (thirsty:)
<schnobs> Parts of 400kg and 10kg, 2.5 wawa decoupler: separation speed is 2.6m/s
<taniwha> there's also how long the force lasts
<schnobs> two parts of 10kg each, one decoupler: 5m/s
<taniwha> don't forget the mass of the decoupler itself (not sure how that distributes)
<taniwha> but I'm not sure it would really matter if it's relative separation speed
<schnobs> Decoupler is integrated in the part. Now I didn't check if it still masses 10kg after decoupling, but seeing the nice round figures I get I presume this is the case.
<taniwha> er, no, it would: same impulse with 99kg vs 1kg would give different results to 50kg vs 50kg
<taniwha> yeah
<taniwha> what was the decoupler force?
<schnobs> Yeah, on my first attempt the other part was 400kg, navball telling me 2.6m/s separation speed. If I'm right, it's actually been 2.5625.
<taniwha> navhud gives more precise numbers (one more digit)
<schnobs> But as far as I'm concerned, I only care about the 2.5m/s going to the probe.
<taniwha> I'm sorry I'm so fuzzy on things
<schnobs> force is 2.5 unknown units.
<taniwha> I think it's kN
<schnobs> propelling 10kg to 2.5m/s... wouldn't that be more like a hundred Newtons rather than thousand?
<taniwha> for one frame, maybe? (0.02s)
<taniwha> and then maybe 1/2 each way (but that does seem physically wrong to me, but then KSP has always had things like that)
<taniwha> (eg, at best 1.3% efficient fuel cells when basic ones now get 40% and some up to 80% iirc (definitely 60+))
<schnobs> Well, erm. Stock fuel cells feel convincing enough, a smallish tank provides for a lot of power.
<schnobs> So however brokey they are, they blend well with the rest of the electricity system (cough)
<taniwha> Going by the engines, LFO should have /at least/ 6MJ/kg
<taniwha> using 1u EC = 1kJ, stock cells give about 1/30th of what one would expect
<taniwha> so no, they don't blend well :P
<taniwha> (think about how far 8u of gasoline gets your car;)
<schnobs> I meant that in the sense that they can power my systems for a long time, or a rover can travel far.
<taniwha> (assuming your average tank is 40L)
<schnobs> Then again, considering that even the smallest tank holds, what, 200kg?
<taniwha> oscar-b? yeah
<schnobs> That's arguably a lot, but at the same time the smallest amount available to a stock player.
<taniwha> also, all stock parts are insanely heavy
<schnobs> I think it works out as a whole, even though the constituent parts do not.
<taniwha> anyway, I've put an MM patch that tweaks the fuel cell efficiency into EL
<taniwha> *6 EC output, /5 LFO consumption
<taniwha> (when I'm done rebalancing EL, you'll wish I'd been more generous, bwahaha)
<schnobs> Then again, I haven't used fuel cells much. Large battery + rtg gets you through most missions. The small amount of EL'ing I did was solar-powered.
<taniwha> I plan on shifting smelter configs to use LFO + EC (or maybe just LFO, but twice as much as the chemistry requires) to smelt ore
<taniwha> need something like 9000MJ/t (metal?) total energy. using my 6MJ/kg for LFO, I get about half that from what I need to get the necessary carbon (assuming C12H16 + O2)
<taniwha> so need to either burn twice as much fuel or supply a LOT of EC
<taniwha> bah, sometimes I want to smack skykooler: http://taniwha.org/~bill/screenshot4245.png
<taniwha> (sure the part is ugly in the first place, but come on, a little more effort with the colliders?)
<taniwha> (yes, I only /just/ discovered that:P)
<taniwha> while I'm at it (and since the next EL update will break things anyway), I'll fix its orientation, too:P)
<schnobs> The grainy black makes for a near-invisible surface, can't figure out the shape. What's the collider problem you're talking about?
<schnobs> The yellow blob to the left?
<taniwha> yes
<schnobs> Is that supposedly surface-attached?
<taniwha> yes
<taniwha> another shot, with offending auger removed: http://taniwha.org/~bill/screenshot4246.png
<taniwha> I tried to attach it to that lower "bridge" bit (vertical walls, overall shape is hexagonal)
<taniwha> gah, trying to remember which way is "up" for exterior parts in blender
<taniwha> (-Y :P)
<taniwha> ah, I see, I have to take back that smack. Back in the day, unity allowed non-convex mesh colliders
<taniwha> now it forces them to be convex
<taniwha> schnobs: the collider in blender: http://taniwha.org/~bill/smeltercollider.png
<taniwha> I need to remove those "wings" and break it up into several smaller colliders
<schnobs> do you happen to know how proc parts work?
<taniwha> not really. I started looking at it at one stage, but didn't get far.
<taniwha> I /have/ created meshes from scratch in Unity, though (ie, in C#)
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<schnobs> I wish for a proc cargo bay and wonder if I can just clone a config, drop in the model{} of any cylindrical bay, and expect it to work.
<schnobs> No clue what happens to animations, or when on tries to change the texture.
<taniwha> me neither
<schnobs> Well, I guess I can just give t a try.
<taniwha> yup
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<Probus> o/
<taniwha> hi, Probus
<taniwha> I'll probably use box colliders instead of mesh colliders, but I'm trying to decide how to split this: http://taniwha.org/~bill/smelterhmm.png
<taniwha> go for one a large thin panel on either side (solid top to bottom) with a filler in the middle, or the whole bottom bit as one piece and two short wall pieces
<taniwha> ie, vertical or horizontal cut at the bottom inside corners of the trough
<taniwha> I'm inclined to think vertical cuts
<Probus> The side count is th same both ways
<taniwha> yeah
<taniwha> but the "gaps" (should be 0) will be on the bottom rather than the sides
<Probus> Yep. That would probably be better.
<Probus> I can't help myself when it comes to filleting and chamfering something like that.
<taniwha> hehe, skycooler did, and just copied it to the collider
<taniwha> sometime since KSP 0.23 or so Unity made a mess of that
<Mike`> awang, i have found one of my major performance-issue-causing mods - it is indeed remotetech. :|
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<Bornholio> yeah mike` remote tech, and it gets worse as more ships are added
<Mike`> i wonder what complicated stuff that has to calculate to make everything so slow :S
<taniwha> it's probably more likely a sub-optimal implementation
<schnobs> Look in map view / tracking station. See those lines? It constantly checks who sees whom.
<schnobs> How many vessels does one need before it becomes noticable?
<Mike`> as i had one vessel flying and one in orbit, i have to say 2, and have to guess its even noticeable with none in orbit eg 1.
<schnobs> I keep my space tidy, regularly pruning outdated probes and leftover upper stages. Still, stuff accumulates.
<schnobs> ouch.
<Mike`> indeed
<schnobs> For all my tidy talk, I have a few more than that :)
<Mike`> it was just a sandbox test
<schnobs> and my game runs smooth. I get a hickup every time I purchase a part, but that's unlikely to be due to RT.
<Mike`> taniwha, you're not by any chance interested in communications and looking for writing a new mod? :D
<taniwha> Mike`: uuuuhh....
<schnobs> Running short on memory perhaps? Lots of garbage collection or something?
<taniwha> (tbh, I /am/ interested in communications, but yet another mod... (only JUST recently got back into working on my existing ones))
<Mike`> might be part of it, i do have 16gb though but run short on memory after 1-2 hours
<taniwha> there are all sorts of ways RT could be inefficient
<Mike`> :) might take a look at the remotetech source some time...gotta ask awang about his profiling experiences but first results didn't look so well
<Bornholio> one problem with RT and RSS is that we have so many ground stations
<Mike`> i guess i wouldn't like optimizing a program without being able to properly profile stuff.
<schnobs> Bornholio: thought that, too, but I wouldn't want to miss any of them.
<schnobs> Actually.... I'm now tasked with launching a polar satellite, and recall that I've occasionally run out of comms on these.
<schnobs> Thor-Able to polar? No good.
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<schnobs> Oh, and just BTW: how can I tell which ground station corresponds to a space center? Do these have a color to themselves?
<Mike`> does that matter?
<schnobs> when looking for an alternate runway, yes... the issue wasn't that important so far, otherwise I could rattle off a list of sites from memory.
<Mike`> oh, runway... are there runways besides KSC? didn't know that
<Rokker> schnobs: I mean, it's just the ones with launch sites right?
<Rokker> schnobs: don't you have to have the site loaded in anyways
<Rokker> I thought it didn't load automatically, at least it didn't seem to back when I made my first flight
<zilti> I'm trying to get the whole RO thingy to work on 1.3 using the golden spreadsheet. But it seems RO is broken? ModuleManager tells me there are 4 errors "related to" RO_RCS_Config.cfg
<Rokker> across america
<soundnfury> Rokker: yeah only the currently-switched-to KSC exists afaik
<Rokker> Bornholio: I forgot to tell you the best thing about heritage flight, I got to see the F-22 do the neat flat spin trick
<schnobs> Rokker: I never even tried. soundnfury: oh, that's not nice.
<schnobs> saves me from a wild goos chase, though. Thanks.
<soundnfury> also yeah I think yellow dots are space centres?
<Rokker> schnobs: I flew across country to white sands once on a weird experimental plane for the science, had to land on the desert, load up the center and finish the flight
<Rokker> God that plane was weird
<zilti> Here's a screenshot: http://lyrion.ch/share/KSP/CfgError.png
<schnobs> looks familiar. RealFuels dll perhaps?
<zilti> I'm using the dropbox RealFuels.dll linked to in the spreadsheet.
<schnobs> And, just because I happen to notice, USAF and NASA insignia on one and the same vessel? Is that right?
<schnobs> zilti: most of these errors vanished once I had all the dlls lined up. The last few went away with a recent MM update.
<Rokker> schnobs: you got it, the X-15 was a NASA and USAF craft
<Rokker> schnobs: more USAF than NASA, but NASA always gets second call on USAF experimental craft
<schnobs> I'd have thunk that NASA was ever so civilian....
<zilti> schnobs: I just nuked the GameData folder again an hour ago and re-did everything according to the spreadsheet
<Rokker> schnobs: civilian doesn't preclude working with the USAF
* schnobs is reminded of a piano.
<schnobs> GRAND Piano, all caps :)
<soundnfury> zilti: look in your logs to find the errors it's warning you about
<Rokker> schnobs: even more USAF experimental and recon craft https://i.pinimg.com/originals/32/c0/f8/32c0f86a83beff2365c4011a181e6b3b.jpg
<schnobs> zilti: did the same a few days ago, no troubles. Can't offer any more advice than what Rokker said.
<Rokker> schnobs: you mean soundnfury. I'm not terribly helpful atm, looking at nasa/USAF planes
<schnobs> indeed... sorry about that.
<Rokker> schnobs: anyways yeah, if you come to my museum you will see a lot of NASA logos on the USAF craft here
<Bornholio> nice valyrie
<Bornholio> valk
<schnobs> I know, but always thought those were hand-me-downs.
<Rokker> soundnfury: I got to see a WB at pima, but it was far off in the distance
<Rokker> schnobs: nah, lotta joint NASA air force projects
<soundnfury> c a n b e r r a
<Rokker> same goal
<zilti> soundnfury, schnobs: Ah. FASA is broken.
<schnobs> And yes, the Valkyrie sure was a nice ride. *sighs*
<zilti> It still gives me two config errors, but launches fine
<schnobs> can PEG do non-orbits? Like, put me to a 850km Ap on the first two stages?
<Rokker> schnobs: is
<Rokker> valkyrie is a nice ride
<Rokker> you just need to break in when nobody is looking
<Rokker> zilti: yeah, you usually need to do some pruning to get gas a to work
<schnobs> so my satellite is spinning out fo control, but RCS build aid claims it's perfectly balanced.
<schnobs> Never had *that* before.
<taniwha> FAR?
<Qboid> taniwha: [FAR] => Ferram Aerospace Research
<Hypergolic_Skunk> schnobs ... Kraken-style?
<taniwha> schnobs: I get that when I accidentally leave FAR's stabilizers on
<Bornholio> did you have the RCS enbaled in VAB if not RCS Build aid doesn't see it
<Starman4308> Maybe it's a control issue? F12->Input Locks->Clear Input Locks?
<taniwha> or trim: alt-x to clear all trim
<schnobs> Nah, just a slow spin a if from an unbalanced payload. RCS should be good for ~0.1kNm, says RCS build aid. It also says that engine torque is zero.
<schnobs> KER gives me 0.01 for engine torque.
<schnobs> But when the engine ignites, RCS counters at full thrust and can't quite cope.
<schnobs> Input lock cleared, no effect.
<Hypergolic_Skunk> have you checked that all thrusters are on the same thrust-level?
<schnobs> It's a simple one-XASR stage.
<Hypergolic_Skunk> ah, so no RCS thrusters?
<Starman4308> Any asymmetrically placed fuel tanks?
<schnobs> Several asymmetric parts (science), hence my use of RCS build aid.
<schnobs> Reloading KSP, let's see.
<Hypergolic_Skunk> schnobs: and those RCS thrusters are all set to 100%?
<Starman4308> Is there a probe core capable of steering on there?
<Mike`> 0.01 might be too much torque
<Mike`> maybe you can reduce it further
<Hypergolic_Skunk> just asking, because I had a similar issue when I changed one RCS thruster's setting during construction, and it didn't apply the setting to the other three
<Starman4308> I thought most of the early spherical cores were incapable of steering.
<Starman4308> Unless that's procedural avionics down at the bottom.
<schnobs> Mike`: rcs should be good for 10 times as much. I've flown similar vessels before without issue.
<schnobs> Starman4308: righto about proc avionics.
<Starman4308> Also, another episode in "Only In KSP!": "Six days after a main-engine failure forced a suborbital abort of Apollo VI, the Apollo VI crew is happily boarding Apollo VII!"
<Starman4308> Unless there was some sort of time pressure, I'd suspect closer to six months' delay as they investigated the engine-out, but with the magic of Test Flight, all that analysis is finished instantly.
<schnobs> Starman4308: in an Apollo context you're probably right.
<Starman4308> ... well, Apollo VIII will be using a different booster, so there's that!
<Starman4308> (another LR-87 had a performance loss!)
<Starman4308> Well, this is why I test the abort systems to death.
<schnobs> But I'd like to point out that a select handful of celebrity astronauts was no historical necessity. Or the prestige of the nation being at stake with every.single.launch.
<soundnfury> schnobs: that's commie talk!
<Starman4308> To be fair, with the mood of the nation as it was, I suspect celebrity astronauts was a given.
<Starman4308> (and yes: that's pinko hippie commie talk right there. Now let's have a talk with Joe McCarthy...)
<schnobs> Remember the demise of Joe Walker?
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<schnobs> (apropos Valkyrie)
<Starman4308> Had to look him up: I knew about that disaster as "the incident that killed off the Valkyrie bomber program", but had not remembered the pilot's name.
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<Starman4308> This morning. This freaking morning. Now a commsat's E1 first stage has had a loss of performance. Three missions with major engine failures in a row.
<schnobs> Well, it is a somewhat dangerous business, occasionally shit happens and sometimes people die. IMO, could have been approached with the same attitude.
<schnobs> Natural, even, as it would have been an extension of the existing culture.
<Starman4308> It is true that occasionally shit happens. Still, I'd agree with the sentiment that the drive to "beat the commies" probably led to more deaths than was really necessary.
<Starman4308> Not that the Soviets were necessarily better, what with things like the Vostok/Vokshod spacecraft.
<probus_> That bomber was so awesome Starman4308
<schnobs> In other news, my thrust torque thing has been resolved by a KSP reboot.
<Starman4308> Good to hear schnobs! At least it got fixed eventually. Unlike this E-1 engine.
<probus_> If all else fails, turn it off and on again.
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<Bornholio> clipping solar panels can cause phantom forces if the model its on has a normal map smaller than the texture map, (like vens Structural pieces )
<Rokker> Bornholio: neat, I can see the AZANG KC-135s on the apron
<Rokker> at PHX
<Bornholio> Sticks or Donkey Dicks?
<Rokker> sticks of course
<Rokker> Bornholio: altho their were F-18s flying into PHX shortly after the 135s yesterday so...
<Bornholio> Navy likes probes on their beasts makes them feel more manly
<Rokker> Bornholio: idk, looks kinda gay to me
<Rokker> Bornholio: nothing nicer than a nice sleek body with no protrusions
<Rokker> altho the F-35B/C has a neat probe
<schnobs> Actually, it was an user error: I didn't expect much CoM-shifting, hence didn't check for it. All the reboot did for me was to revert to CoM view (while I previously only considered Acom).
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<schnobs> I've heard about MISS, but MOOSE was new.
<Bornholio> thats been in traveller since the way back
<schnobs> Something's wrong with my 1.25m cockpit. according to the part description it's supposed to come with life support resources...
<schnobs> It doesn't, and appears to be incapable of holding any. UI lists no water, food, oxygen...
<schnobs> Am I just missing an unlock?
<Bornholio> if no Lifesupport tech
<schnobs> I have the one that unlocks life support for service modules.
<Bornholio> let me peak in MM cache
<schnobs> ...doing likewise...
<Bornholio> mine has TANK{name = Foodamount = 1.95 ...
<schnobs> dito.
<Bornholio> peek
<Bornholio> when it loads i'll check that also .sigh
<schnobs> By comparison, the X-1 cockpit lists RESOURCE { name = Food
<schnobs> Rather than TANK{}
<Bornholio> did you tap remove tanks?
<Bornholio> can you add them back in?
<Bornholio> in Tank UI that is
<schnobs> there are none to remove. As I pull the part from the list, it has 100L available, and no content defined.
<Bornholio> pap can you link me to the part/tree/ecm spreadsheet, i've lost my linky
<schnobs> "RP-0 official Parts tech Tree"?
<Bornholio> i believe so thanks
<schnobs> Switching the tank from servicemodule to fuselage works as a quick fix.
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<schnobs> i there a quick way to set up a life support tank?
<Rokker> Bornholio: :( https://imgur.com/tF11Vmg
<Rokker> Bornholio: it's a gaggle of globemasters waiting for scrapping :(
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<BadMobileRockets> Howdy!
<Starman4308> Hello!
<BadMobileRockets> Lightest orbital vehicle https://imgur.com/a/Z2Xe1
<schnobs> now that's odd. Since I changed that tank type on the cockpit, the editor (VAB) is broken: I can no longer crank up symmetry to place 2, 3, .. parts at a time.
<BadMobileRockets> Did this thing
<schnobs> I guess I'll just call it a day.
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<BadMobileRockets> soundnfury: ya on?
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<soundnfury> mmm?
<soundnfury> hunding warts atm, can't really type & fly
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<Starman4308> schnobs Do you have mirror (SPH) symmetry on? The R key switches between radial (VAB) and mirror (SPH) symmetry. Unless you're saying you can't even get 2x symmetry.
<Starman4308> Just got RSSVE installed and I'm cursing the fact that I ever let myself talk me out of downloading visual enhancement mods.
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<Bornholio> Gosh Darnit Soundnfury you got me, Hundling Warts?
<soundnfury> Bornholio: Wart Hunder :P
<Starman4308> Warthunder? At first, I thought it had something to do with shooting down A-10 Warthogs, and I was trying to remember if there was ever a "Hund" aircraft or SAM system.
<soundnfury> war thunder. air combat game.
<Starman4308> Yeah, I've played a bit of Warthunder.
<Bornholio> Stay way from those Fansong 3 radars, they have shooty things attached
<Starwaster> . o O ( Hundling Warts... great thanks guys, now forevermore I will see that as Wart Hunder )
<Starwaster> :(
<Bornholio> damaged goods
<zilti> So I've come across another hurdle - I can't launch anything in 1.3.1. When I launch from the RP-0 window, it switches to the launch view, my vessel is there, staging is there, everything. But pressing <SPACE> does nothing. Pressing R, T or Z does nothing. What could be the reason?
<Bornholio> do you have control (Connected)?
<Bornholio> do you have a control point (aerobee core at minimum)
<Bornholio> even a launch clamp is enough
<Starman4308> Have you tried clearing input locks?
<zilti> I have tried with both the standard A-4 parts including the A-4 control thing, as well as with the sounding control thingy
<Bornholio> did you wait and it ran out of power, also like Starman says, Alt-F12 and Clear input locks
<zilti> I'll try clearing the input locks. I restarted the game in-between tests with no effect
<Bornholio> are you hovering over a MJ window when doing those things
<zilti> No, nothing like that. That setup is so fresh, I don't even have MJ windows open by default yet
<Bornholio> yes all thses things i've done myself .sigh
<zilti> Oh, Ol'Musky... "It's 2017. I mean, we should have a moon base by now! What the hell's going on?"
<Starman4308> In breaking news, economists have discovered people dislike taxes more than they like moonbases.
<Starman4308> That said, I come from a fairly conservative family (thus a dislike of taxes and inefficient spending) and a generation that is long since used to NASA projects getting cancelled. I was never promised any Moonbases in the first place.
<zilti> Starman4308: yes, apparently removing the input locks solved it.
<Starman4308> Good to hear!
<zilti> But I have to do this on each launch now, it seems
<Bornholio> next is figuring out what locked you
<Bornholio> usually its a window from somethings UI
<Bornholio> thanksfully it will tell you what gives you the lock in the Input Locks UI
<zilti> These are all locks: http://lyrion.ch/share/KSP/InputLocks.png
<Bornholio> are you doing RO/RP0?
<zilti> Clearing it removes the lowest entry
<zilti> Bornholio: yes
<Bornholio> get rid of Ampyear
<Bornholio> they conflict
<Starman4308> That would be my suggestion too. Fusebox is a lighter-weight option which doesn't try things like add "reserve power".
<zilti> Okay. Hmm now I still can't ignite it, it says "lack of resources"
<Bornholio> battery it has none
<zilti> A battery to ignite an engine?
<Starman4308> Yes. Sometimes also TEATEB is needed.
<Starman4308> Welcome to Real Fuels.
<Bornholio> regardless all fixes lead to ampyear
<zilti> Yes, TEATEB I know. But nothing ever told me I need battery power, and I never had an issue with RealFuels in 1.2.2
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<zilti> Ah, now it works. Thanks for pointing out the ampyear thing. Now I'm admiring the MASSIVE new tech tree...
<Bornholio> admire paps awesome icons, except those NTR ones those crappy ones are mine :P
<zilti> I assume this one now really only shows parts supported by RP-0? I tried finding stuff from the "Surface Experimentation Package" I've installed, which I could find in the old tree
<zilti> Yes, the icons are very nice, too :)
<Bornholio> it will show things if they are in the tree but not costed or adjusted for RO/RP0 unless you place a NoNonRP0 folder in your gamedata
<zilti> Heh, oh I noticed "Community Tech Tree" is listed as requirement, but I don't have it installed. Apparently it's not required anymore
<Bornholio> it is not
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<zilti> Huh, and I can install neither FASA nor Cryo Engines nor RLA in 1.3...
<zilti> The game will refuse to load if I do
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<Bornholio> RLA has a problem but FASA shouldn't be a problem
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<Bornholio> nothing nertea has given me a problem so far
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<Rokker> Bornholio: a couple of cuties pulled up next to us while we were taxiing
<Bornholio> are you feverish, like the curves on some hornets :)
<Probus> F-18s?
<Rokker> Probus: aye
<Rokker> they shook the plane like crazy when they took off
<Probus> Nice!
<zilti> Bornholio: When I have FASA installed, loading gets stuck here: http://lyrion.ch/share/KSP/CfgError.png
<Rokker> Probus: got some nice shots of the AZANG KC-135s on the apron next to the runway as well
<zilti> Rokker: For a few months in military, I was directly next to a Swiss airfield with F/A-18 taking off and landing
<zilti> *Somewhere* on my NAS I have a couple buried videos with everything from engine turn-on (which sounds really weird) to triple takeoffs
<zilti> But I gotta say, for looks and sound, I prefer the stone-aged F-5 Tiger
<Rokker> zilti: F-11 is tiger
<Rokker> F-5 is freedom fighter
<Rokker> or tiger 2
<zilti> Rokker: No, I mean the Northrop F-5 Tiger
<zilti> Yes, that thing is still in active duty here
<Rokker> So the Northrop F-5E/F Tiger II
<Rokker> the Grumman F-11 is the Tiger
<zilti> Yes, that should be the full name. It's only referred to as "F-5 Tiger" here, so I had to look it up
<Rokker> zilti: I preferred freedom fighter
<Rokker> it's more free
<zilti> lol ^^
<Rokker> btw, Probus Bornholio finally got my pics and vids from pima uploaded, there are some duds where I tried to get the heritage flights and just took a pic of the sky because of the sun
<Rokker> warning. it's a good few pics
<Rokker> like, 600
<Rokker> 650
<zilti> Bornholio: As for the CryoEngines, loading gets stuck at this point: https://lyrion.ch/share/KSP/CfgError2.png
<Bornholio> the messafe it gets stuck at does not mean what it stuck on, drop a log , but got to go for a few
<Probus> Jimminy Rokker, that's a lot.
<Rokker> Probus: I mean a number of them are of all of the amazing heritage flight practices over head
<Rokker> Probus: I saw a P-51, P-40, F-35, F-22, F-16, F-86, and A-10 fly over
<Rokker> and possibly a P-47
<Rokker> and spitfire
<Rokker> Probus: and it was amazing
<Starman4308> That's a lot of old warbirds.
<Rokker> Starman4308: and new ones !
<Rokker> Starman4308: apparently they do heritage flight training next door at Davis Monthan in March
<Rokker> and I just got lucky
<zilti> Bornholio: I've put both logs on my server: https://lyrion.ch/share/KSP/KSP_CryoEngines.log and https://lyrion.ch/share/KSP/KSP_FASA.log for where it gets stuck when CryoEngines or FASA is installed.
<Bornholio> not sure where to start, I'd pare out the things that are not even supported by RO, principia is having problems
<Bornholio> Remote Tech is Throwing
<Bornholio> Wild Blue stuff has a bunch of scattered exceptions
<Bornholio> Cryo Fuels is probalby something in Real Fuels not quite right
<Bornholio> thats it , a duplicate Rela Fuels .dll
<Bornholio> \GameData\RealFuels\Plugins\RealFuels(1).dll
<Bornholio> you have a lot of unsupported mods in the list, but that RF dll is probably the issue you are concerned about
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<zilti> Bornholio: Well, the .dll removal didn't fix it. Hmm. I already had the FASA problem right after installing the stuff according to the golden spreadsheet on a fresh KSP. Maybe ckan doesn't have the newest FASA version.
<Starwaster> does anyone remember the naming rules with regards to profession?
<Bornholio> ettiquite rules?
<Starwaster> no...
<ProjectThoth> Well, usually people took their last names from their profession. "Carpenter," "Shepherd," "Smith," "Baker," "Turner," "Judge," the whole nine yards.
<Starwaster> wow I'm talking about KSP guys
<Starwaster> new crew professions are supposedly linked to their generated names
<ProjectThoth> Interesting.
<ProjectThoth> (fun fact! surnames only originated in around the 15th century)
<Starwaster> Another fun fact! My full name is Kevin Starwaster
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<ProjectThoth> Hi, Kevin.
<ProjectThoth> My name is Matt, and I'm addicted to realism overhaul.
<Starwaster> dammit it's based off of the name hash... I should have seen that coming but for some reason I thought it was done based on human readable interpretation of the syllables in the name
<Starman4308> Hi Kevin. Hi Matt. My name is Jacob, and I'm also addicted to Realism Overhaul. I haven't throttled down even a lander engine in weeks, nevermind a main booster engine.
<Starman4308> Anyways, I'll have both the M2 and RD-170 engines coming off the research stack in my career soonish, and I'm giggling at the thought of an M2 sustainer with RD-170 boosters.
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<Rokker> Bornholio: mmm, reversey https://imgur.com/LjiEvF9
<Rokker> Bornholio: so I just had a great idea to run by you
<Rokker> Bornholio: about B-52 reengining
<Bornholio> yes
<Bornholio> thats the answer
<Rokker> Bornholio: so we replace the engines with 8 GE9Xs
<Rokker> make that shit go supersonic
<Bornholio> Those airframes might not take that :P
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