ferram4 changed the topic of #RO to: Welcome to the discussion channel for the Realism Overhaul (meta)mod for KSP! Realism Overhaul Main Thread https://goo.gl/wH7Dzb ! RO Spreadsheet http://goo.gl/Oem3g0 ! Code of Conduct http://goo.gl/wOSv2M ! | Maximal & soundnfury's RP-1 Race Into Space Signup: http://bit.ly/2DEVm2i [15:01] <soundnfury> Straight Eight Stronk (and) RP-0/1 is basically "Space Agency Spreadsheet Simulator"
<Bornholio> blowfish multithread that shit
<awang> I've never thought of a thermal equilibrium problems in terms of a PID before
<awang> KevinStarwaster: Use F#, never make a units mistake again
<awang> Wasn't there something about analytical mode that was making MLI hard?
<soundnfury> awang: something something principia something units something aaaaaaaa.
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<KevinStarwaster> awang the analytical issue affects boiloff and and ignores conductivity but I wouldn't say the MLI code is made particularly harder
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<awang> soundnfury: It's infectious!
<awang> KevinStarwaster: I see
<soundnfury> !wpn awang
* Qboid gives awang an isochoric singularity
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<Bornholio> hi sparkyc
<soundnfury> hey rsparkyc, are you potentially interested in a test-run of RIS on 1.3.1 with me and Maxsimal?
<rsparkyc> while i would love some more RIS action, i really won’t have the time yet :(
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<blowfish> awang - just to check, did you compile SolverEngines and AJE in release mode rather than debug?
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<egg|zzz|egg> meow
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<Maxsimal_> o/
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<awang> !tell blowfish I think I compiled in release. It's the mode that VS opened up in at least, and the Debuggable attribute is empty
<Qboid> awang: I'll redirect this as soon as they are around.
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<KevinStarwaster> holy crap, I went EVA in KSP 1.4.1 while supersonic in a plane and Jeb deformed into spaghetti.... and his physics broke. I was not ablet o click on him to activate his parachute and he died
<KevinStarwaster> oh also, don't lift gear until you actually start to take off or it could be bad (just general aviation advice...)
<Bornholio> Glaxay 5A bad, or Harrier Bad?
<KevinStarwaster> good question
<KevinStarwaster> ok time to go all Felix Baumgartner
<KevinStarwaster> god I hate playing stock... I forgot to check if my rocket could event lift off and I don't have MJ
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<rsparkyc> ahh, the woes of stock
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<rsparkyc> so, seeing as how people seem to just me getting RO/RP-0 (i guess it’s RP-1 now?) running on 1.3.1, i’m guessing noone has started on 1.4.x
<rsparkyc> does anyone know if there’s a 1.4 golden spreadsheet?
<Bornholio> yes sec
<rsparkyc> ooo, pretty
<Bornholio> simplified it to a single sheet
<Bornholio> awang made a bunch of compiles for 1.4.1, links in the E column
<rsparkyc> I should probably take a stab at updating kerbal renamer
<rsparkyc> i think i did that for 1.2
<Bornholio> that would be great :)
<Bornholio> Proc parts and RealChute added 1.4.1 releases
<KevinStarwaster> rsparkyc Real Fuels sort of runs on 1.4.1 using a 1.3.1 build at least as far as the MFT part of it goes. Though I did not mean to even try it and I don't have the CRP NOR any engine packs so I was having to manually fill all my tanks with LFO which sucked some major assage
<KevinStarwaster> Deadly Reentry will be along sometime soon; I just wanted to make some code changes... though I don't remember what they are so I might just release it without them
<KevinStarwaster> Especially if we can finally get all of the RO crowd off of 1.2.2? What ARE Realism Overhaul plans ? Are there plans? Or are the individual authors and contributors just sort of meandering along on 1.2.2?
<Bornholio> deflate HAID IRVE :)
<KevinStarwaster> ?
<KevinStarwaster> what do you mean?
<Bornholio> add the deflate option back to inflateable shields
<KevinStarwaster> hmmm
<Bornholio> its not needed but nice to have since its in the plans, also nice woould be some kind of descent mode for steering them
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* soundnfury gives Bornholio a Lempel-Ziv-Welch heatshield
<Bornholio> Pica pica
<KevinStarwaster> wtf is a lempel ziv heatshield
<Bornholio> unix compression
<Bornholio> or is it gif?
<KevinStarwaster> which means WHAT as far as heatshields?
<KevinStarwaster> whati s that even supposed to mean
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<Maxsimal_> Hey bornholio, do you want to do an RIS test run with me and soundnfury?
<Bornholio> i could later tonight
<Bornholio> that is maybe after 8ish CDT
<Maxsimal_> Ah cool. I'm not sure if SnF wants to start with 3 - 2 was definitely too few though. Hopefully he'll be around soon. I think it was you, SnF, rsparkyc, NathanKell and Pap in the last one?
<Maxsimal_> No worries - pretty sure SnF is on GMT0 in the UK like I am
<Bornholio> ah nope I did not participate in teh last one
<Maxsimal_> Ok. Well, 3 might be enough - would be cool if we could get more people though.
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<Slaintemaith> ...aaaaand I'm back. With fresh hell.
<Slaintemaith> Well. Old fresh hell.
<Slaintemaith> Is there any reason--any reason at all--that RCS shouldn't hold attitude with MechJeb while trying to circularize around the moon?
<Slaintemaith> Do I need to shut off RCS on the LM?
<Slaintemaith> Or keep it on the LM and shut it off on the CM? (currently I'm using both--but that ain't working)
<Slaintemaith> Because MechJeb apparently doesn't see that the large engine in the back of the CM/SM gimbals.
<Slaintemaith> So it slowly oscillates out of control.
<Slaintemaith> Of course, this is nothing new. I've talked about it here 1,000,000 times.
<Slaintemaith> I can provide a savegame file if anyone would think it'd help. FASA would need to be installed, of course.
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<rsparkyc> ok, so i’m really happy with this. I made a script that I can run on GeForce NOW and download my copy of KSP along with mods, and also sync my save files
<zilti> I wonder how fast this thing is going to burn up https://lyrion.ch/share/KSP/SpaceTwo.png
<rsparkyc> i bet you could make it
<zilti> Well I've never landed a spaceplane before
<zilti> I tried today, but the Mk1 cockpit burns up immediately (internal temp goes immediately to 1000 Kelvin). I've put a shield under it now
<rsparkyc> if at first you don’t succeed, revert to quicksave
<zilti> This thing is a nightmare to navigate in space. I think I need stronger RCS ^^
<zilti> ...it's almost 22 tons...
<Slaintemaith> Does anyone use FASA anymore?
<awang> zilti: IIRC KevinStarwaster said that DRE models burn-through
<awang> So the reason you end up with super high temperatures in the cockpit is because you have plasma blowing in
<awang> Slaintemaith: Just the engines, for me
<zilti> Dang, it toppled over at 100km altitude because I had a 45 degree angle
<zilti> awang: "DRE" means...?
<zilti> I use FASA engines and clamps
<awang> zilti: Deadly Reentry
<Slaintemaith> Hrm. Seems the apollo bits are busted. =(
<zilti> Also, something is off - that dang plane always rolls a few degrees to the right, but it's perfectly symmetric
<Slaintemaith> Heh. Now the RCS won't stabilize the propellant even after five minutes of use.
<Slaintemaith> I hate this game.
<zilti> WTF there's a goddamn wing between the air and that Mk1 cockpit and it still blows up in no time?!?
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<zilti> "Rated for LEO entries" my ass. This thing doesn't even survive suborbital
<KevinStarwaster> wasn't there some kind of issue of upgrades and the Mk1 Cockpit?
<KevinStarwaster> with DRE installed zilti, you have to have researched the hypersonic tech...
<KevinStarwaster> otherwise it's just an aluminum cockpit
<KevinStarwaster> not saying that IS the issue but you should probably check into it
<KevinStarwaster> what is this RP0?
<zilti> KevinStarwaster: when I right-click it, it still says "skin: 2500 kelvin core: 1000 kelvin". But the heat goes magically right through the wing I've put underneath and blows up the cockpit
<zilti> Nah, normal community tech tree. I don't feel like grinding through sounding rockets again just yet ^^
<KevinStarwaster> community tech? Does it still HAVE the hypersonicFlight tech?
<KevinStarwaster> zilti enable thermal debugging and right click the cockpit again. Tell me what the max operational temps are (both)
<zilti> KevinStarwaster: how do I enable that, in the Alt+F12 menu? I have the critical temperature mod, and it shows "Mk1 cockpit (core)" with a max of 1000 kelvin, which is correct
<zilti> KevinStarwaster: yes, it has that tech
<KevinStarwaster> I dont care about that
<KevinStarwaster> that doesnt tell me what I need to know :)
<KevinStarwaster> alt-F12, enable thermal debugging and right click it again
<KevinStarwaster> along with the stock debugging info you will see maxoperationaltemp and skinMaxOperationalTemp
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<zilti> KevinStarwaster: it says 450.00 K
<KevinStarwaster> ok it's not upgraded
<KevinStarwaster> that's in flight?
<zilti> yes
<KevinStarwaster> yeah it would have to be wouldnt it...
<zilti> Why does the game lie? What's the point?
<KevinStarwaster> the max op temps are a DRE thing not a stock thing so it's not lying
<KevinStarwaster> looking into something...
<KevinStarwaster> hmmm did you have DRE installed from the beginning? Or at least before reesearching hypersonic flight?
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<zilti> KevinStarwaster: from the beginning. And I haven't researched that node yet
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<KevinStarwaster> oh ok I thought you had... well that's the problem then. your cockpit is made out of aluminum and has no TPS installed
<KevinStarwaster> it doesn't exist yet
<KevinStarwaster> go look at the hypersonic flight node and you should see the research tech there
<zilti> Dang, I should have brought a separate re-entry capsule as payload, not a station module...
* zilti starts a rescue mission for Jeb and Bill
* KevinStarwaster would leave Jeb up there to reflect on his mistakes
<KevinStarwaster> zilti you should probably download this updated DRE upgrades file: https://github.com/Starwaster/DeadlyReentry/blob/master/DeadlyReentry/DeadlyReentry-Upgrades.cfg
<KevinStarwaster> not sure if it would affect you but I did find a problem with it
<zilti> KevinStarwaster: Thanks!
<KevinStarwaster> zilti I don't honestly know that the problem I found would affect someone on 1.2.2, I noticed it on 1.3.1 and have never seen it before but I figure, just in case?
<zilti> I'll try it when I re-start KSP the next time (read: when it crashes the next time after an alt+tab...)
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<KevinStarwaster> huh I don't have thatp roblem thank god.... my worst gripe is alt-enter and all the fun it brings
<KevinStarwaster> which they FINALLY seem to have fixed in 1.4
<KevinStarwaster> no disappearing menus.... no disappearing fairings
<zilti> Oh great... my new rocket blows up the pad on launch
<KevinStarwaster> I hope to god they fixed THAT in 1.4 - but probably not since it's a large rocket issue that only people like us trigger
<zilti> Yeah my launch clamp is the origin of an endless rain of sparks
<KevinStarwaster> I had a new problem the other day with a large SLS / Ares type... where the fairings would blow up the stage upon ejection. I think it has to do with the fact that my giant 10x20 sized fairings were 10 tons for each half
<zilti> It's not even that big, only 500 tons
<KevinStarwaster> does it do it even with launch clamps installed? I had that happen the other day... the rocket didnt even TOUCH the pad... but one of the launch clamps kept wobbling so violently that the pad exploded
<zilti> Ah, damn physics jerks... Yes, even with launch clamps. I wait until the engines are powered up, then release them. Rocket proceeds to slowly go downwards about a meter, the launchpad goes boom, and the rocket launches.
<KevinStarwaster> that's an expensive launch... costs like what a mill to repair?
<zilti> ...now it uses the launchpad as an explosive trampoline
<zilti> Heh, no idea. I never had to repair it so far...
<zilti> Ah, this time it worked. I had to keep it on the ground for a couple more seconds
<zilti> And apparently 16(!) vernier engines aren't enough
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<zilti> WHY on earth would anyone ROLL during a PITCH maneuver, eh, mechjeb, WHY?
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<lamont> zilti: PRs accepted
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<soundnfury> Bornholio: I think 3 people is enough
<soundnfury> RIS server at http://jttlov.no-ip.org:8082, game name 131_trial_run
<soundnfury> ground rules: difficulty Hard, reverts only on bugs (but allowed in that case, so make sure to enable them), no cheekily using multiple KSCs to get more biomes for your sounding rockets (but developing multiple KSCs for different launch corridors later is OK)
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<zilti> 40 engines on the first stage (32 of which are vernier engines) and four huge wings. Phew! And it turned out beautiful. https://lyrion.ch/share/KSP/Charon.png
<Starman4308> 32 verniers sounds... excessive.
<Starman4308> (but very nice indeed!)
<zilti> Well, the NK-33 has no gimbal, and the verniers are laughably weak compared to it ^^
<Starman4308> This is what God invented Merlin 1B vernier engines for.
<Starman4308> (though, in all seriousness, I was at one point contemplating "what if the Pyrios boosters with their F1B engines used Merlin engines half for vernier work, and half for landing?"
<zilti> Well, tell my tech tree about Merlin engines ^^ Though also in all seriousness, I just had to make at least one rocket with NK-33 engines. Those are some engineering marvels. Too bad KSP can't "gimbal" the way the N-1 did, by varying the thrust per engine
<Starman4308> I think I have a Saturn-ish rocket with NK-43s; I'd have to double-check how closely those are related to the NK-33.
<Starman4308> Ever since I got the F1 engines, I've started using them all over the place, since they're surprisingly cheap for stupidly large first stages. Uppers, though, closed cycle or hydrolox is amazing.
<zilti> Very. I think the 43 is the upper-stage version.
<Starman4308> Ah. The staging order for my "Saturn IIIB" is 3x F-1, followed by 3x NK-43, followed by the good old S-IVB. It's honestly a bit strange how well a 1:1 F-1 to NK-43 engine holds up.
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