ferram4 changed the topic of #RO to: Welcome to the discussion channel for the Realism Overhaul (meta)mod for KSP! Realism Overhaul Main Thread https://goo.gl/wH7Dzb ! RO Spreadsheet http://goo.gl/Oem3g0 ! Code of Conduct http://goo.gl/wOSv2M ! | Maximal & soundnfury's RP-1 Race Into Space Signup: http://bit.ly/2DEVm2i [15:01] <soundnfury> Straight Eight Stronk (and) RP-0/1 is basically "Space Agency Spreadsheet Simulator"
<Bornholio>
and yes i've been on all those planes in the pic!
<Bornholio>
rokker ^^^
egg has joined #RO
egg|zzz|egg has quit [Ping timeout: 186 seconds]
<wb99999999>
what tank butt?
<wb99999999>
to my eyes it's just somehow the node has been offset
<Rokker>
Bornholio: please tag it nsfw
<Rokker>
Bornholio: I'm gonna go on a mission to convince Tory Bruno to donate the last Delta II to the NMUSAF
stratochief_ is now known as stratochief
<Bornholio>
good deal rokker , luck to your cause
<Rokker>
I think I've got a good case cause of the ~53 delta ii launches for the USAF including much of the GPS constellation, especially the first satellites ever launched for it
<Bornholio>
does NMUSAF have a GPS mockup or test frame?
Hypergolic_Skunk has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity]
<Rokker>
Bornholio: not yet, which is surprising.
<Rokker>
Bornholio: I'm betting we would get one if we got a Delta II
<Bornholio>
then double good luck
<Rokker>
Bornholio: of course I'm still waiting for them to put the IUS on display next to the Titan IV
<Rokker>
and the DSP next to it
<Rokker>
Bornholio: they should make me a curator
<Rokker>
because I have the ideal museum layout all in my head
<stratochief>
lay it out in autocad, or make a physical model :P
<Raidernick>
hey ferram4 single part planes won't work correctly in FAR right, the wings need to be separate parts?
<Starwaster>
raidernick that's just about always been the case... :(
<Rokker>
stratochief: or I could just wait til nightfall and move it all around myself
<Rokker>
stratochief: they released a layout 3 years ago that would have allowed them room for the Atlas F, and they still have yet to rearrange the museum in that way
<stratochief>
yeah. probably good to just go in at night and shuffle it into the proper position
schnobs has quit [Ping timeout: 186 seconds]
<ferram4>
Raidernick, that is correct
<ferram4>
each control surface needs to be its own part
<ferram4>
stick to stock's level of combining parts and no further. That way lies madness
<Raidernick>
ok
SirKeplan has quit [Ping timeout: 186 seconds]
qwertyy has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
<Rokker>
ferram4: so, you interested to see what lockmart comes up with for japan?
<ferram4>
I'm sure it will be interesting
<Rokker>
ferram4: actually I'm not sure what I'm more interested in seeing. this f-22/35 hybrid, or the hypersonic cruise missile
<ferram4>
Hypersonic cruise missile is the more interesting one
<ferram4>
Although I don't know how effective its terminal guidance will be.
<ferram4>
Hypersonic things have a tendency to snuff out their ramjets / scramjets when they try to change AoA or sideslip angle at all.
<Rokker>
ferram4: maybe we will get something Snark-like
<ferram4>
Return-of-Snark would be awesome
<ferram4>
I love Snark.
<Rokker>
travels to the target and then projectile flight into target
<ferram4>
It's so derpy
<ferram4>
The entire thing screams early Cold War America
<Rokker>
ferram4: nothing about it makes sense to me and that's why it's awesome
<ferram4>
Like, literally all it needs to be complete is a propaganda picture of stereotypical white middle-class family with 2 kids on the side of it.
<Rokker>
ferram4: I just realized...
<Rokker>
ferram4: the Snark is probably one of the largest aircraft at the museum
<Rokker>
like top 25 probably
<ferram4>
It is chunky, yes
<Rokker>
ferram4: and to cement your point about it being the embodiment of the early cold war, it starts off the counterclockwise path of the cold war hangar from early to late
blowfish has joined #RO
<ferram4>
Makes sense
<Rokker>
ferram4: well, that and an F-89 Scorpion with 2 Genies on the wings
<Rokker>
genies are probably my favorite batshit crazy cold war weapon
<Rokker>
"how do we stop a large bomb group from entering the US" "let's nuke them"
<ferram4>
It's not the dumbest idea, honestly.
<Rokker>
ferram4: it might not be dumb, but it's still cold war levels of craziness
<ferram4>
"How do we stop a reentry vehicle on terminal approach?" "Let's detonate a nuke near it IN OUR OWN TERRITORY"
<ferram4>
Granted, one with a focus on fucktons of neutrons, but still a nuke
<Rokker>
I love how Russia still uses that as the most viable option
qwertyy has joined #RO
<stratochief>
the "you can't nuke russia, on russia gets to nuke russia!" option
<stratochief>
I'm curious what siberia did to earn Tzar Bomba
<Raidernick>
didn't we do that same thing with the sprint missiles
<Raidernick>
nuking nukes
<Rokker>
Raidernick: yes but we stopped using those, meanwhile Russia is simply upgrading the system
<Rokker>
Raidernick: also Spartan, Sprints cousin
<Rokker>
Raidernick: Spartan was even crazier
<Rokker>
Sprint was low yield for close range in case Spartan missed
<Rokker>
low kt range
<Rokker>
Spartan otoh
<Rokker>
5 megatons
<Rokker>
fuck your satellites and every electronic within a hundred miles
TM1978m has joined #RO
Mike` has quit [Ping timeout: 186 seconds]
Mike` has joined #RO
wb99999999 has quit [Quit: webchat.esper.net]
egg|work|egg has quit [Quit: webchat.esper.net]
TM1978m has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
<blowfish>
!tell Starwaster* master is fine for now
<Qboid>
blowfish: I'll redirect this as soon as they are around.
<blowfish>
!tell Starwaster* haven't made any 1.4+ changes to RF yet
<Qboid>
blowfish: I'll redirect this as soon as they are around.
montyqe has joined #RO
montyqe has left #RO [#superbowl]
Senshi has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
Senshi has joined #RO
Senshi has quit [Ping timeout: 182 seconds]
Olympic1 has quit [Ping timeout: 186 seconds]
Olympic1 has joined #RO
Olympic1 has quit [Ping timeout: 186 seconds]
blowfish has quit [Quit: Leaving]
<soundnfury>
Rokker: don't forget the nuke-pumped X-ray lasers option for SDI
Olympic1 has joined #RO
Wetmelon has joined #RO
Hypergolic_Skunk has joined #RO
VanDisaster has quit [Ping timeout: 186 seconds]
VanDisaster has joined #RO
SirKeplan has joined #RO
<stratochief>
soundnfury: I first heard about nuke pumped x-rays in Footfall. Does anyone else find it crazy that Jerry Pournelle worked for Reagan on SDI?
<Starwaster>
!tell blowfish Ok I pushed the candidate for final 1.3.1 cryo (probably final cryo for 1.4.*) - it should behave a lot better under analytic now but that may need feedback from peoples so we'll see.
<Qboid>
Starwaster: I'll redirect this as soon as they are around.
<Qboid>
Starwaster: blowfish left a message for you in #RO [21.04.2018 05:42:27]: "master is fine for now"
<Qboid>
Starwaster: blowfish left a message for you in #RO [21.04.2018 05:42:45]: "haven't made any 1.4+ changes to RF yet"
schnobs has joined #RO
ferram4 has quit [Ping timeout: 198 seconds]
<Rokker>
I can't seem to get test flight working on this RP-1 1.3.1 gamr
<schnobs>
Rokker: you need the dev branch.
<schnobs>
Works fine for me without any issues... ('cept missing config here and there which isn't TF's fault)
<Rokker>
I thought I had the dev branch
<Rokker>
but still no worky
<Rokker>
where can I find the dev branch again? I'll give it another shot
<schnobs>
I just did a git clone, switched branch, and copied everything over.
ferram4 has joined #RO
<schnobs>
what's "tooling" supposed to be anyway?
<schnobs>
Tooling in the literal sense of "we need to set up a workshop for this"
<schnobs>
Or just a balance mechanism to give unlock cost to procedural parts?
<schnobs>
It seems to be too expensive for the latter, and too nitpicky for the former.
<soundnfury>
it's jigs and moulds for a given size.
<soundnfury>
really the unlock costs for non-proc tanks are meant to represent tooling too, but they're not done yet ;)
<soundnfury>
(non-proc tanks are currently _waaay_ too cheap to unlock, they're still balanced for RP-0 funding levels)
<schnobs>
Rather than juggle individual unlock cost and ECM, it would seem prudent to give them a "size" field and let the tooling mechanism handle things.
<schnobs>
Though seriously, I'm still of the opinion that part unlock cost are more trouble than they're worth.
<schnobs>
Basically it comes down to not having a good interface to deal with part purchases. It creates a lot of overhead in my workflow.
<schnobs>
Don't know about you, but for me it's a lot of saveloading to try lots of parts and eventually not buy most of them.
<schnobs>
On saveloading, I have to buy again.
<Bornholio>
cheater
<Bornholio>
:)
<schnobs>
Tooling works reasonably well, I'm made aware of what I need when I come back into the VAB.
<Bornholio>
then turn it off, lower your rewards level and go change the tooling config
<schnobs>
"tool all" makes it easy to deal with.
<schnobs>
But there's no editor check for unpurchased parts. I've been accidentally launching stuff i never acquired.
<Bornholio>
the fix solution is to get each diameter and length of non-proc parts through the tooling calac and add the price
<schnobs>
Bornholio: that's what I said, above.
<Bornholio>
and saying it is like pointing at the crowd ans saying do this work, i don't wanna
<schnobs>
Yeah.
<schnobs>
Pap mentioned that he "still has to do this". That's fine with me, really.
<schnobs>
So basically, what I'm saing is "if you do this, better make it like that".
<soundnfury>
yeah until then, just don't use non-proc parts :)
<schnobs>
soundnfury: with proc avionics, we're almost there :)
<soundnfury>
schnobs: now we're just waiting for ferram's proc engines mod xD
<schnobs>
Change of topic, to something where I could do something about:
<schnobs>
Sounding rocket contracts are just ratcheting up, and up, and up.
<schnobs>
Currently I'm expected to launch half-ton payloads to 1500km.
<Bornholio>
on difficult...
<schnobs>
What do you think about adding ceiling values?
<schnobs>
Bornholio: ?
<Bornholio>
if you run into a wall you can't launch the difficult anymore you can drop down to moderate or easy missions
<schnobs>
Let me see... current contracts:
<Bornholio>
or wait it out until you have the capability to do them after new tech
<schnobs>
Difficult: 410u to 1260km
<schnobs>
Itermediate: 2056u to 200km
<schnobs>
easy: 1946u to 90km
<schnobs>
Some limited reading about sounding rockets suggest typical altitudes <300km; with paylods of <50kg or <250kg for the big boosters.
<Bornholio>
You could make a series of sounding rocket contracts that match up with historical types, mainly instrumented that are repeatable
<schnobs>
Nah, I'd suggest to cap it at much less, or not even have that kind of contract. There's some standard altitude records anyway.
<schnobs>
Yeah, maybe a one-off for "1st pictures from space" because the early camera doesn't yield that much science anyway.
<Bornholio>
I'd like to implement starting pads at .05t to stop cheating first day biome grabbing with KCS switcher and then have biome dependent SR contracts
<Bornholio>
but i have not the time to do it
<schnobs>
Bornholio: is that even cheating?
<Bornholio>
you can do 8 or so launches on day 6...
<schnobs>
Sounding rockets were launched all over the place (and from ships and whatever). The Aerobee kind didn't require much infrastructure.
<schnobs>
Arguably, it's more cheaty to put a cockpit on top of an A-4.
<schnobs>
Or rather, not the act in itself but that it pays so well.
<Bornholio>
you can easily push a full year ahead by spectrum launching, and even if you do zero level pads its still worth building them to do that (tho grindy)
<schnobs>
Bornholio: I'm generally war of of all measures that should prevent the player from "cheating"
<schnobs>
*wary
<schnobs>
On some RP-0 playthough, I didn't even bother with plane research. Thus had only basic wings.
<schnobs>
All was fine until the day I equiped my venus lander with tiny winglets for increaed drag.
<schnobs>
What I needed for the task would have been the equivalent of a spring-loaded 30x30cm stainless steel plate.
<schnobs>
Bornholio: back to sounding rocket contracts, how would ceiling values make the unsuitable for grinding?
<schnobs>
Design sounding rocket that's good for ceiling value, launch it a thousand times.
<schnobs>
Don't see why this shouldn't work.
<Bornholio>
read back to yourself what you just typed, that is ruined
<Bornholio>
its already a big part of the grind complaints
<schnobs>
You mean it's an improvement if you also have to re-design and re-tool a new LV each time?
<Bornholio>
even early on i don't do that but once in ten
<Bornholio>
and yes thats preferable to spam twelve of same rocket, kct button twice, launch button space button rinse repeat dozens of times
aradapilot has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
aradapilot has joined #RO
awang has quit [Ping timeout: 186 seconds]
<schnobs>
How does one deal with a failure to ignite on the launchpad?
Olympic1 has quit [Ping timeout: 186 seconds]
<soundnfury>
schnobs: by swearing
<Bornholio>
yes lol : cheaty, revert to vab, redo the launch : not cheaty, zero thrust, recover craft using KCT roll back, edit, roll out repeat : Ultra Cheaty, revert to launch : learned lesson (use less engines or more reliable ones). : Mega ultra cheaty turn off TF :)
<schnobs>
Bornholio: truth be told, I was angling specifically for rollback-fix-rollout which strikes as a wee bit expensive.
VanDisaster has quit [Ping timeout: 198 seconds]
<soundnfury>
schnobs: it is, and that's something we need to fix
<soundnfury>
but I'm hoping someone else (NK?) will have some good ideas as to _how_
<schnobs>
For a good idea, how about starting with a KCT replacement?
<schnobs>
Because, the only realistic thing about it is that construction takes time. Most everything else is only getting in the way.
<schnobs>
It's the kinda-sorta main interface to RP-0. But that was never it's purpose, and it shows.
<schnobs>
Lunar probe just ran out of juice and anyway, suppertime. See you later.
schnobs has quit [Ping timeout: 186 seconds]
<Bornholio>
KCT is fully configurable, change or turn off antyhing you don't like
<Bornholio>
soundnfury keep going on the RIS?
VanDisaster has joined #RO
blowfish has joined #RO
SupremeSteak1 has joined #RO
wb99999999 has joined #RO
<soundnfury>
Bornholio: ehh I think Maxsimal's given up.
<soundnfury>
if the two of you catch up to where I am I'll keep going though ;)
Senshi has joined #RO
Senshi has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
Olympic1 has joined #RO
Daz has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
Daz has joined #RO
blowfish has quit [Quit: Leaving]
<travis-ci>
Build #5615 - master - passed
<travis-ci>
Merge pull request #1863 from m4gus88/patch-2
schnobs has joined #RO
qwertyy_ has joined #RO
qwertyy has quit [Ping timeout: 186 seconds]
UmbralRaptop has quit [Remote host closed the connection]